Shonen Jump Indy top 16

[GenzoTheHarpist]

3 Lightsworn decks
3 Salvo-DAD decks
5 Blackwing decks
4 Rescue Cat decks
1 Gladiator Beast deck

A BW deck won. As this format comes to a close, I think we should just reflect on how it was as a whole. It certainly was FAR better than the sept 08 format (teledad). There we would see, if lucky, maybe three decktypes represented, and the two that weren't teledad would make up at best three of the top sixteen. Here we see four decks about equally represented, and GB just hanging in. A serious improvement. Call Konami stupid, but I think they did a good job of fixing the problems that put us through six months of agony. And the new format looks to be better still.

[Manjoume Thunder]

3 Salvo-DADs. Wow
What places did they get?

[GenzoTheHarpist]

I'm pretty sure two stopped first round, and Adam Corn's got to top eight.

[Exiro Divinus]

Yay for Blackwings.

One thing I don't understand, though, is that BWs don't run Cold Wave lately. How come? I thought Cold Wave would let you dominate card gaemz?

[b0b3rt]

It's pretty obvious that BW would have won this. I've been running Cyberdarks on DMU and with 3 Salvo and 1 PSZ (which doesn't even work for this purpose) I've been able to get out DSF on my first turn more then half the time.

[BehindTheMask]

(08-26-2009 02:56 AM)GenzoTheHarpist Wrote:  3 Lightsworn decks
3 Salvo-DAD decks
5 Blackwing decks
4 Rescue Cat decks
1 Gladiator Beast deck

A BW deck won. As this format comes to a close, I think we should just reflect on how it was as a whole. It certainly was FAR better than the sept 08 format (teledad). There we would see, if lucky, maybe three decktypes represented, and the two that weren't teledad would make up at best three of the top sixteen. Here we see four decks about equally represented, and GB just hanging in. A serious improvement. Call Konami stupid, but I think they did a good job of fixing the problems that put us through six months of agony. And the new format looks to be better still.

Diversity =/= Good Format.

This format was worse than Tele-DaD format, mainly because of the diversity of the OTK's you could face, making it harder to side games 2 and 3.

[OmegaWave]

I hate the new format. How the hell is REDMD still at 3?

Yeah...diversity. That tournament sounds like a bunch of crap if there were only 5 diverse deck types. There's no uniqueness in Yugioh anymore. It's embarassing.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

I'm confused at why REDMD needs to be limited in some way. Obviously, if there is a good reason, I would like to know D:

Anyways, as a whole, I think this banlist is better, but there are many improvements to be made... BWs ftw?

[Kira the Savior]

(08-26-2009 12:50 PM)Dark_Armed_Zombie Wrote:  I'm confused at why REDMD needs to be limited in some way. Obviously, if there is a good reason, I would like to know D:

Anyways, as a whole, I think this banlist is better, but there are many improvements to be made... BWs ftw?

I think he is fine. Hes not killing the meta right now, thats JD's job.

[OmegaWave]

(08-26-2009 12:56 PM)Kira the Savior Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 12:50 PM)Dark_Armed_Zombie Wrote:  I'm confused at why REDMD needs to be limited in some way. Obviously, if there is a good reason, I would like to know D:

Anyways, as a whole, I think this banlist is better, but there are many improvements to be made... BWs ftw?

I think he is fine. Hes not killing the meta right now, thats JD's job.

A 2800ATK DARK Dragon beatstick with's incredibly easy to summon and has a very abusable revival effect. I would've chosen REDMD over DSF.

[Kira the Savior]

(08-26-2009 01:02 PM)Obsidian Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 12:56 PM)Kira the Savior Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 12:50 PM)Dark_Armed_Zombie Wrote:  I'm confused at why REDMD needs to be limited in some way. Obviously, if there is a good reason, I would like to know D:

Anyways, as a whole, I think this banlist is better, but there are many improvements to be made... BWs ftw?

I think he is fine. Hes not killing the meta right now, thats JD's job.

A 2800ATK DARK Dragon beatstick with's incredibly easy to summon and has a very abusable revival effect. I would've chosen REDMD over DSF.

DSF had like 5 OTK's to his name. This thing requires a dedicated build and even then LS will often own it because LS is much faster. Same with BW.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

(08-26-2009 01:02 PM)Obsidian Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 12:56 PM)Kira the Savior Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 12:50 PM)Dark_Armed_Zombie Wrote:  I'm confused at why REDMD needs to be limited in some way. Obviously, if there is a good reason, I would like to know D:

Anyways, as a whole, I think this banlist is better, but there are many improvements to be made... BWs ftw?

I think he is fine. Hes not killing the meta right now, thats JD's job.

A 2800ATK DARK Dragon beatstick with's incredibly easy to summon and has a very abusable revival effect. I would've chosen REDMD over DSF.

Ok, you realize you just chose a specific deck that isn't a super-uber competative deck (it's competative, but not to the extent of meta) over one of the most broken cards in YGO, right? Because I'm sorry, I would rather leave the strength of one deck that is not broken for DSF than let the many broken decks run rampart and destroy the game...

[GenzoTheHarpist]

(08-26-2009 12:20 PM)BehindTheMask Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 02:56 AM)GenzoTheHarpist Wrote:  3 Lightsworn decks
3 Salvo-DAD decks
5 Blackwing decks
4 Rescue Cat decks
1 Gladiator Beast deck

A BW deck won. As this format comes to a close, I think we should just reflect on how it was as a whole. It certainly was FAR better than the sept 08 format (teledad). There we would see, if lucky, maybe three decktypes represented, and the two that weren't teledad would make up at best three of the top sixteen. Here we see four decks about equally represented, and GB just hanging in. A serious improvement. Call Konami stupid, but I think they did a good job of fixing the problems that put us through six months of agony. And the new format looks to be better still.

Diversity =/= Good Format.

This format was worse than Tele-DaD format, mainly because of the diversity of the OTK's you could face, making it harder to side games 2 and 3.

Wow, sides consist of more than fifteen cards of anti-teledad now. I didn't realize making you think more was bad. This was in no way even close to as bad as the previous format. Every Jump this format had a different winner. Whereas last format, every jump had the same winner. They are not comparable at all.

[BehindTheMask]

(08-26-2009 01:38 PM)GenzoTheHarpist Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 12:20 PM)BehindTheMask Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 02:56 AM)GenzoTheHarpist Wrote:  3 Lightsworn decks
3 Salvo-DAD decks
5 Blackwing decks
4 Rescue Cat decks
1 Gladiator Beast deck

A BW deck won. As this format comes to a close, I think we should just reflect on how it was as a whole. It certainly was FAR better than the sept 08 format (teledad). There we would see, if lucky, maybe three decktypes represented, and the two that weren't teledad would make up at best three of the top sixteen. Here we see four decks about equally represented, and GB just hanging in. A serious improvement. Call Konami stupid, but I think they did a good job of fixing the problems that put us through six months of agony. And the new format looks to be better still.

Diversity =/= Good Format.

This format was worse than Tele-DaD format, mainly because of the diversity of the OTK's you could face, making it harder to side games 2 and 3.

Wow, sides consist of more than fifteen cards of anti-teledad now. I didn't realize making you think more was bad. This was in no way even close to as bad as the previous format. Every Jump this format had a different winner. Whereas last format, every jump had the same winner. They are not comparable at all.

Lolno. Tele-DaD was beatable games 2 and 3, as long as you weren't stupid.

Losing to Cold Wave -> Set Guard turn 1 is way more stupid than being able to set up against the Tele-DaD swarm, and being able to comeback. Even if Rescue Cat didn't OTK, they could still combo Arcanite + DSF, blow up 2 cards, then swing for 5400+(tributing Arcanite + DSF) is still stupid.

Losing to DSF after BW Swarm under Cold Wave is just as bad as losing to Stardust + Colossal + Something. Hell, even just BW Swarm backed by Cold Wave is annoying enough because you will have next to no outs, if they Sirocco OR Gale. Having a Continuous RoTA that evens out the turn you play it, or gains more card advantage is ridiculous. Being able to use 3 Gales makes it hard to be able to attack over it.

Glads still could pop out Gyzarus with no problem, and Lock w/ Chariot. They can OTK themselves w/ Monk + 2 Spells, have access to Cold Wave locks, and prevents your opponent from playing too defensively.

Salvo-DaD either resets the field w/ BRD and then Swarms with DaD + Others, or it DSFs for Game. The fact that if you destroy a Dekoichi means that you open their whole deck is retarded, because they still maintain card advantage(via the draw) and then can just Toolbox w/ Salvo. Don't attack until you can OTK? No problem, they still can Foolish, Grepher, etc. similar to Tele-DaD and OTK you.


Tele-DaD was largely beatable, as long as you could play smart. Waiting for them to overextend and being able to counter it means you win. Take Cesear Gonzalus, for example. He didn't even side in the Tele-DaD mirror match. You know why? He practiced and was able to consistently beat the deck. Sure, there was a lack of diversity, and a lack of skill, it was still better than this format. Why? Because the majority of matches were Tele-DaD, so siding was easy, and being able to play around the deck was easy to pick up.

March '09 was a horrible, OTK infested format. The diversity was bad because you weren't able to side effective as you could have in the Tele-DaD format.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

You are making it sound like teledad is easy to beat after siding. If it was so easy to beat, then more than one or two people could make top sixteen with decks other than teledad. And for all you say about OTKs I got OTKd far more often by teledad than I have by blackwings or rescue cat. Most of these decks require way less to beat than teledad did.

Rescue cat is pretty easy to side against.
BW, I play it and usually don't lose mirror match. Certainly i've never been OTKd mirror match.
LS is laughably easy to beat, even without siding at all.
GBs are a joke to side against.
Salvo-DAD, none at my locals ever played it so I don't really know. But it's a weaker teledad.

[DesCrow]

What place and at what tournament do you have to come in to really put a deck on the map?

[BehindTheMask]

(08-26-2009 02:37 PM)GenzoTheHarpist Wrote:  You are making it sound like teledad is easy to beat after siding. If it was so easy to beat, then more than one or two people could make top sixteen with decks other than teledad. And for all you say about OTKs I got OTKd far more often by teledad than I have by blackwings or rescue cat. Most of these decks require way less to beat than teledad did.

Rescue cat is pretty easy to side against.
BW, I play it and usually don't lose mirror match. Certainly i've never been OTKd mirror match.
LS is laughably easy to beat, even without siding at all.
GBs are a joke to side against.
Salvo-DAD, none at my locals ever played it so I don't really know. But it's a weaker teledad.

Tele-DaD was still hard to play against. It took skill and luck. However it was still a better format than this one because you could still get easily OTK'd and the amount of decks you could play meant being able to side less effectively.

The fact that there are 5 decks meant that you have to plan your side for up to 5 decks. Let's say there are 5 cards that you can side against each deck. That leaves 10 cards to side against each deck. So, that leaves 2 card per deck, allowing you to side in 7 total cards, on average. Then, take into consideration the fact that each deck can side against your side, and you realize "oh, i'm gonna get wrecked" because your opponent is has the advantage of counter-siding against your side, due to the fact that their deck is predictable to side against.

The fact that each deck can OTK is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if all of them were "easy to side against." As long as the format is OTK ridden, then the format is going to be bad. Having Multiple OTKs makes it a worse format, because siding is made harder. Having 1 top deck allows you to learn each possible play they can make. This also allows you to make better side deck choices, and commit to the weakness of your deck(The "unstoppable" Tele-DaD). Tele-DaD was easier to play against, as long as you were smart. Sure, you still got OTK'd, but you should be able to play against it better than most decks this format.

[burnpsy]

(08-26-2009 02:47 PM)DesCrow Wrote:  What place and at what tournament do you have to come in to really put a deck on the map?

Usually, it's top 4 or so at Nats, Jump, etc. Something big.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

(08-26-2009 02:56 PM)BehindTheMask Wrote:  Tele-DaD was still hard to play against. It took skill and luck. However it was still a better format than this one because you could still get easily OTK'd and the amount of decks you could play meant being able to side less effectively.

The fact that there are 5 decks meant that you have to plan your side for up to 5 decks. Let's say there are 5 cards that you can side against each deck. That leaves 10 cards to side against each deck. So, that leaves 2 card per deck, allowing you to side in 7 total cards, on average. Then, take into consideration the fact that each deck can side against your side, and you realize "oh, i'm gonna get wrecked" because your opponent is has the advantage of counter-siding against your side, due to the fact that their deck is predictable to side against.

The fact that each deck can OTK is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if all of them were "easy to side against." As long as the format is OTK ridden, then the format is going to be bad. Having Multiple OTKs makes it a worse format, because siding is made harder. Having 1 top deck allows you to learn each possible play they can make. This also allows you to make better side deck choices, and commit to the weakness of your deck(The "unstoppable" Tele-DaD). Tele-DaD was easier to play against, as long as you were smart. Sure, you still got OTK'd, but you should be able to play against it better than most decks this format.

Last format you COULD NOT win at a competitive level if you weren't playing teledad. Teledad cost around $1000. Now, you can win with blackwings, GBs, Cat, things that cost $100-$300. The mere fact that I had the capacity to build a meta deck makes this a better format for me. I can tell from your post, you probably weren't running any of the five decks on that list. Because if you were, you'd recognize it's just a hard for anyone to side against you as it is for you to side.

[BehindTheMask]

(08-26-2009 03:31 PM)GenzoTheHarpist Wrote:  

(08-26-2009 02:56 PM)BehindTheMask Wrote:  Tele-DaD was still hard to play against. It took skill and luck. However it was still a better format than this one because you could still get easily OTK'd and the amount of decks you could play meant being able to side less effectively.

The fact that there are 5 decks meant that you have to plan your side for up to 5 decks. Let's say there are 5 cards that you can side against each deck. That leaves 10 cards to side against each deck. So, that leaves 2 card per deck, allowing you to side in 7 total cards, on average. Then, take into consideration the fact that each deck can side against your side, and you realize "oh, i'm gonna get wrecked" because your opponent is has the advantage of counter-siding against your side, due to the fact that their deck is predictable to side against.

The fact that each deck can OTK is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if all of them were "easy to side against." As long as the format is OTK ridden, then the format is going to be bad. Having Multiple OTKs makes it a worse format, because siding is made harder. Having 1 top deck allows you to learn each possible play they can make. This also allows you to make better side deck choices, and commit to the weakness of your deck(The "unstoppable" Tele-DaD). Tele-DaD was easier to play against, as long as you were smart. Sure, you still got OTK'd, but you should be able to play against it better than most decks this format.

Last format you COULD NOT win at a competitive level if you weren't playing teledad. Teledad cost around $1000. Now, you can win with blackwings, GBs, Cat, things that cost $100-$300. The mere fact that I had the capacity to build a meta deck makes this a better format for me. I can tell from your post, you probably weren't running any of the five decks on that list. Because if you were, you'd recognize it's just a hard for anyone to side against you as it is for you to side.

Oh, right, my bad. I forgot if a deck is "cheap" to build then it doesn't matter if it OTK's consistently.

I'm gonna concede the fact that This format > Tele-DaD, because you obviously aren't listening to my points.

P.S. I ran GB's, every competitive game I saw Mirror of Oaths and T-Roars came in. >_>