GFX Discussion- Problem of the Section

[TVL]

Yeah but this isn't psychology, it's a forum. I really don't think that a few moderators over the internet can alter the fundamental idiocy that characterizes a lot of these problems. However, I do know that these people love to point fingers, scream n00b, and mini-mod. Tighten the rules more, and they will solve the problems themselves, just to get in the good graces of the mods and get more rep points. If you say something is not encouraged, people will get away with it, but if you write it as a rule it becomes enforced by the members as well.

[Icyblue]

(09-27-2009 09:17 PM)TVL Wrote:  OK. How about getting mods to actually enforce standards of quality in work and cnc. Seems simple enough.

It's a lot more than just punching someone in the gut for doing wrong.

(09-27-2009 09:22 PM).frission Wrote:  The mods do everything they can, but changing the way things work on a forum is more than just warnings and bans, it has to happen with the populace as a whole. Members need to understand that the new system is in their best interest, and then lead each other in following it, with the Mods at the head.

(09-27-2009 09:28 PM).frission Wrote:  It's not about regulating idiocy, it's about fundamentally changing the minds of the populace. Using a stick to force people to change is never as effective as a carrot and stick together. Saying that you can just punish people into doing what you want shows a misunderstanding of basic psychology.

You sir, just got a +1rep from me...

@TVL: My moderating style, works for each persons unique personality. As well as their psychological being. I couldn't care less about their alter-egos on the boards.

[TVL]

C'mon man, this is a forum, not a shrink.

[Icyblue]

(09-27-2009 09:34 PM)TVL Wrote:  C'mon man, this is a forum, not a shrink.

C'mon man, this is life; and I'm the one typing this. Not the name "Icyblue" you see on my post.

[Lemniscate]

(09-27-2009 09:33 PM)TVL Wrote:  Yeah but this isn't psychology, it's a forum. I really don't think that a few moderators over the internet can alter the fundamental idiocy that characterizes a lot of these problems. However, I do know that these people love to point fingers, scream n00b, and mini-mod. Tighten the rules more, and they will solve the problems themselves, just to get in the good graces of the mods and get more rep points. If you say something is not encouraged, people will get away with it, but if you write it as a rule it becomes enforced by the members as well.

What is a forum but a collection of people, and what are people but a body with a brain? Most people don't care about getting in the good graces of a mod, I know I don't, they care about finding people they get along with, and if they get along with someone, they are much more likely to listen to them and follow them. The person on the other side of the connection, once they have a relationship with a person, can then use that relationship to regulate misbehavior in a much more effective way than they would be able to otherwise.

[TVL]

No thanks, I'm not in the mood for mind sex right now. I'll bow out.

[♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥]

Leave CnCing, and take out Classing. That's all I can say.

The classing done on YCM's done by people who DON'T know real life art design anyway.

[XxShadiusxX]

(09-27-2009 10:35 PM)♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Wrote:  Leave CnCing, and take out Classing. That's all I can say.

The classing done on YCM's done by people who DON'T know real life art design anyway.

This

Oh and Mr. TVL I have something for you. Maybe you should learn to make art before you go and insult others who are better than you?

[♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥]

At least with CnCing, people who do a lot of graphics via learning off other people and/or tutorials have an idea about how something looks appealing. Although the design characteristics, terminology, and other things are way off.

Classing is just downright broken.

[✖ Jack Atlus ✖]

(09-27-2009 08:24 PM)TVL Wrote:  The main problem is that people are idiots.

Q4T.

[jk233_ultimatemaster]

I agree with Icy on this point.

A lot of users give criticism but don't give any suggestions to improve. To me, the Cnc system is just a way to make new GFXers feel bad.

But I actually have no problem with the Class system, so leave it be.

[OMGAKITTY]

I'm seeing a lot of bitching about how people point out problems without solutions. Ever stop to consider that they might not know how to fix it? Just because I don't know how to fix a problem doesn't mean I can't spot an obvious problem and tell the OP about it. :/

I would rather have people point out my problems, so I know what I need to work on, than have people watch what they're saying to avoid getting b&.

[TVL]

(09-27-2009 10:57 PM)XxShadiusxX Wrote:  

(09-27-2009 10:35 PM)♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Wrote:  Leave CnCing, and take out Classing. That's all I can say.

The classing done on YCM's done by people who DON'T know real life art design anyway.

This

Oh and Mr. TVL I have something for you. Maybe you should learn to make art before you go and insult others who are better than you?

Nowadays anything can be considered art. You could take a s*** on a plate and use it as 3D art. But not many people would look at that. However, point taken, from now on I'll only insult people who are worse then me, or people who I don't like.

[Jappio]

Now I'm not sure if all my spriting qualifies me to join this discussion. However I enjoy receiving and trying to give CnC. I do prefer CnC that has helpful comments in how to fix my issues. Yet lets go into an assumption. Lets say I am the best artist in the world. I make things like the Mona Lisa look like a 3rd grade doodle. I though make something, want improvement, seek out critique. However being the amazing artist I was, am I able to expect the greatest critique? In that case I'd be happy with at least getting errors pointed out. The people critiquing don't quite have the knowledge to give a way to fix, however if done at least politely and well explained, pointing out errors can be the next best thing. If standards go up on CnC, it may only create an effect which will cut the amount of critique, and some things might not get any critique at all then.

Now honestly, I'm not fully sure where I stand. Sometimes it's about taking what you can get. However sometimes it is better to just not say anything. Maybe it is best to keep CnC to only those that can give the best of the best of it. I suppose I'm thinking allowed just to put out some points.

If I had to decide, I'd say allow for "Point out Mistakes" type CnC. I think it still can have its use to an artist. Lame short ones should still be viewed as bad, such as "The shading is off." Yet if put in a way like, "I think the shading is off. I want to say it's too dark, or looks like it's facing the wrong way." It doesn't really give a way to fix it, yet offers a good idea what is wrong and can have its uses.

[TVL]

But if you can make the Mona Lisa seem like a third grade doodle, how can there be anything wrong with your art? [/devil's advocate]
In all seriousness I agree with you. The bottom line for me comes down to dealing with idiots. They'll always be there, you can always annoy them, you can use them as target practice for your sarcasm gun, or you can let them get to you. If you're good enough at design, then you can know bad critique when you know it. People don't know everything. They may think they're right when they're wrong. That's life, you've got to live with it instead of bitching about it and trying to stop criticism altogether. No Cnc would kill the design section.

[кוшוᴷᵁᴻ]

The classing system is broken. However it gives a person a stand point as to how they compare with other artists. Not all people like competition, but for those who do, this system is quite helpful. Thus, adding the [CLASS] tag in the title of a thread suggests that the person would like to be informed of his standpoint in the gfxing world. However it is easy to be mislead by the classing system, so best leave it to experienced artists such as Shadius and Cyber Altair, who can provide a not always 100% accurate but relatively reliable opinion. To cap up, don't abolish classing as a whole, but leave it to those who are experienced artists and allow people to choose whether they would like their art classed through the addition of the [CLASS] tag in the thread title.

About cnc, it is often harsh, but sadly, the best way for an artist to improve. Prob's harsh cnc is what inspired me to improve and research each of the problems he pointed out on my pieces. However different people improve in different ways, so some people will not prefer the "full-on" approach. There is really not much you can do to fix this problem, as individuals vary. You can hold someones hand through making a piece and sugar coat everything you say, but that may result in them being dependent on this constant help, thus, becoming worse instead of improving their skills.

You can't accuse people of being idiots by the way. They are only usually offering their opinion, and in YCM's usual environment, it is difficult for them to excel at design, as we all know. It isn't their fault they are "stupid", because they are not receiving adequate amount of help to improve. The bottom line is that YCM is not a gfx based forum and you cannot expect everyone here to be design geniuses.

[~JG~]

I agree mildly on the Classing system being removed, people can just go to other sites, PR, CZ and such to get classed. But, if say you are pretty bad at tagging, you would get flamed to pieces over there, so here is better, because there are many designers your own level too. So I'm split opinions here.

The CnC part, is just plain stupid. Seriously. What point is there in a GFX forum if you aren't even allowed to do the most basic thing in GFX? Pretty much all comments are CnC, even if it is bad CnC, and posts like "Nice Job" and such are counted as spamming, as far as I have heard, so you can't really post without breaking the rules then.

Rethink your decisions, please.

[Icyblue]

(09-28-2009 11:11 AM)I Am. Wrote:  I agree mildly on the Classing system being removed, people can just go to other sites, PR, CZ and such to get classed. But, if say you are pretty bad at tagging, you would get flamed to pieces over there, so here is better, because there are many designers your own level too. So I'm split opinions here.

The CnC part, is just plain stupid. Seriously. What point is there in a GFX forum if you aren't even allowed to do the most basic thing in GFX? Pretty much all comments are CnC, even if it is bad CnC, and posts like "Nice Job" and such are counted as spamming, as far as I have heard, so you can't really post without breaking the rules then.

Rethink your decisions, please.

Did you come online just to belittle me ~JG~?
And nice job is a motivator, which is better than...

Imitation Convo Wrote:TP: [insert sig here] CnC please.
Random Poster (RP): No light source, no depth, focal is too distorted
TP: Well, now that you say that. How would you suggest I fix? (I used Photoshop btw)
RP: Ooh. I can't say that; I don't know how.
TP: Then why tell me whats wrong if you can't do it yourself? Would you like me to give you the PsD so you can show me in some way?
RP: I don't know how.
TP: Hypocrite.

Practice what you preach, or don't say squat cuz you aren't helping anyone.

[Alfred-Kun]

On the Topic of CnC:-

CnC is one of the most important things in Graphics. Comment and Criticize. There is no 'FIX' in there and there never will be. Comment and Criticize. Simple. Removing the CnC system is like removing the Tea leaves in Tea - it's not the same anymore. And besides, if you put [Class] or 'Rate, Hate, CnC' then you are asking for how good your work is in general and it's faults respectively. You are literally asking for it. If you put CnC underneath your tag and don't like what you get, it's your fault.

~ That is all.

[~JG~]

(09-28-2009 11:49 AM)Icyblue Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 11:11 AM)I Am. Wrote:  I agree mildly on the Classing system being removed, people can just go to other sites, PR, CZ and such to get classed. But, if say you are pretty bad at tagging, you would get flamed to pieces over there, so here is better, because there are many designers your own level too. So I'm split opinions here.

The CnC part, is just plain stupid. Seriously. What point is there in a GFX forum if you aren't even allowed to do the most basic thing in GFX? Pretty much all comments are CnC, even if it is bad CnC, and posts like "Nice Job" and such are counted as spamming, as far as I have heard, so you can't really post without breaking the rules then.

Rethink your decisions, please.

Did you come online just to belittle me ~JG~?
And nice job is a motivator, which is better than...

Bah, you discovered me. Whatever. But no, I found this thread with my new account, and decided to post my opinion. I didn't do this to belittle you. Also, how did you know it was me? IP Check much? Or pure instinct?

Also, you can ban me if you want, but I don't see the point, since I ain't misusing this account to give reps or such. Which brings me to the topic of the multiple account rule, It's stupid, if you want to start afresh, you should be allowed to, unless you misuse it, like repping yourself or something.