Yu-Gi-Oh! The Created Card Game (Updated rules, please read 1st post)

[Nightmarian]

(12-30-2008 07:13 AM)Infinity Sparker Wrote:  I will add to my current role as a Balancer and become a Creator aswell... if I can be both. If only 1 I will stay as Balancer.

At start , when anyone joins , he will probably need to show what he knows in some part of job. It might happen we will not go that way though.
For example if he want be card creator, balancer and reworder he will need to show few cards that he made , balance few cards and reword few cards.
So be prepared for that! I already see that everyone will want to be card creators and that will be really hard to handle because of already mentioned problem with too many cards.
So i think it is best for all that we all do what we know best and things we dont know that we leave to people that are good in them.

[AKC]

I just want to say that the rules and guidelines for the entire CCG process should be up within the next day or so and we should hopefully be entering the submission stages for set 1 real soon. When the rules and guidelines are posted up I expect everyone to read them over carefully and ask any questions.

I still haven't received any feedback regarding the issue of whether we should port over TCG/OCG staple cards such as heavy storm or should we make our own variants. Right now I've been discussing this with Nightmarian and we're on the opposite ends of the spectrum regarding the issue so we need the feedback from you people to help determine how we will handle this.

[marlength]

I think some cards should be brought over. Though some cards if brought over MUST be changed. The biggest example i can think of is D.A.D. However. I can understand us making our own cards with literally copy paste effects of another card. For example.
Heavy Storm.
Destory all spell and trap cards on the field.
Mass Upheaveal
Destroy all Spell and Trap cards on the field.

So the difference would be pics and name.
So it really depends on how enthusiastic the card creators are.

[tommers2008]

there will be good and bad about using/not using real cards

Like if we do use them people will use old cards that have kinda messed up the real metagame and it will just be like the old game but that they have released a new set or something..

but if we don't use them people will just create versions of them cards and it will be same old story different card name etc

the big question here is are we creating our own new game or just playing the old game but introducing new cards..??

[Nightmarian]

We are making new game. No old cards + it will be in rules that cards with same effects/names/images etc. as ones that are in TCG/OCG will not be accepted.
Anyway, in XCG (where was before) is aroun 4700 cards and 95% of them are NOT TCG cards rip-offs.

[tommers2008]

yes i see but what about basic cards like trap hole,heavy storm and others of this sort..??

i am eagerly anticipating the release of the rules so i can get a proper feel of how we will run/play/work this...

[AKC]

I just want to be clear that when I refer to staple cards I'm only referring to basic ones like Monster Reborn, Call of the Haunted, Premature Burial, Heavy Storm, Reinforcement of the Army, Book of the Moon, Mirror Force, Solemn Judgment, etc... to name a few. Basically, cards that have always been run in any deck. I don't think we'll port over any monster cards to the CCG though there may be some exceptions to this depending on the feedback we recieve. However, we will NOT except anything that remotely resembles DAD or JD as that already goes against the rule regarding cheap M/S/T removal cards. Personally, I'd rather just use some basic cards from the TCG/OCG because I don't see what's the point in messing with a good thing already. I don't care if we rename the cards and give them a different image (some of them could use a facelift) but changing the effects seems completely un-necessary since those cards are good as is and do not need tampering if they hit the limited/semi-limited list accordingly. Obviosuly, I'm not expecting that we port over the entire Spell and Trap lineup to the CCG but only key spells/traps. At the very least we will need to port over Polymerization for fusion summoning.

[Nightmarian]

Yes..we will have staple cards from start because of some problems that would occur...so this are versions that i made , better means that card is more balanced...it is just example we need to discuss all together about them and agree...anyone can post their examples here..this is also not full staple list so if u anyone thinks that something else is neccesary please post it here.

limited (heavy storm)
Massive Hurricane
Normal Spell
Destroy all face-down Spells and Traps on field.

-more balanced heavy..this is how heavy should look like in first place...to not ruin all opp strategy..but to stop opp from placing tons of fds..


at 3 or semi-limited (mystical space typhoon)
Judgment Bolt
Quick Spell
Destroy 1 face-up Spell or Trap on field.

-stall killer..there where Magnetic Storm scks , this comes to help..

(Dust tornado)
Backrow Assault
Normal Trap
Destroy 1 face down Spell or Trap on field. - maybe add some effect here

-obv needed


-limited(mirror force)
Infernal Force
Normal Trap
You can activate this card when your opponent monster attacks by paying Life Points equal to number of monsters on your opponents side of the field * 300. Destroy all opponents attack position monsters.

-more balanced mirror...

-limited ( torrential tribute)
Gaia Collapse
Normal Trap
When your opponent Summon monster you can activate this card. Destroy all monsters on field.

-well in this version u cannot sacrifice your own monster to do it..so opponent can be careful and not summon anything..

-foolish burial
White Tunnel
Normal Spell
Send 1 monster from your Deck to Graveyard. During this TurnEnd Phase remove all face-up monsters on your side of thefield from play that have same as monster sent to graveyard with this card effect.

-slower Foolish..if you ss that monster from gy in this turn then it gets removed from play..i know it doesnt help much but each card must be different from TCG ones

(polymerization that is usefull)
Advanced Polymerization
Group: Spell Card
Type: Spell
Send Fusion Material Monsters that are listed by a Fusion Monster Card from your hand or your side of the field to the Graveyard, and Special Summon the Fusion Monster from your
Fusion Deck. After that draw 1 card.

-makes normal Fusion Summon more useful comparing to Synchro speed...obv in current meta almost neither deck use Polymerization but Fusion Summons are made with some other cards that rfg materials from gy or even dont need any spell card etc...so now player will not lose 3 cards for 1 but he will lose 3 cards for 1 and then get 1 draw..so he is at -1 total which is more competetive to Synchros..

limited (monster reborn,call of haunted,premature)
Dimensional Resurrection
Continous Trap
Pay 800 Life Points. Special Summon 1 monster from any Players Graveyard and equip it with this card. If monster equipped with this card is removed from field , this card is destroyed. If this card is removed from the field , monster that was equipped with this card is removed from play.

- worse combination of Call of Haunted , Premature Burial and Monster Reborn i could think of..
Also you can ss opponent monster and if this card is removed from field that monster would be removed from play..


semi-limited - or maybe even not that(morphing jar,but not really)
Greed Jar
Earth Rock Lv2 800/1000
FLIP : Both Players discard all cards in their Hand and then draw same amount.

-Card Destruction actually in form of monster..

-limited ( Breaker)
Destiny Owl
Winged Beast Wind Lv4 1700/1200
When this card is Normal Summoned you can discard 1 card to destroy 1 Spell or Trap on field.

-WIND and Winged Beast so is not DARK and spellcaster ..i mean we dont know how will DARK and Spellcasters look in our CCG but creators really love to make DARK monsters and Spellcasters also ^^...and it is more logical that WIND and Winged Beasts destroy opponents S/T...this is so much balanced version of Breaker it could be even at 2...


(Solemn Judgment)
Solomons Justice
Counter Trap
Pay half of your Life Points. Negate activation and effect of card effect that was activated on field and destroy it.

-doesnt negate Summon so opponent can be more careful..will he activate optional effects of his monsters or not..like Snipe for example..

(Dark BribE)
Devil Bribe
Counter Trap
Negate activation and effect of Spell or Trap card and destroy it. Then your opponent can draw 1 card or place card destroyed with this card effect at top of his Deck.

-more balanced then Dark Bribe because if opponent strategy is around some spell and trap he will not lose it forever if he really needs it..so this card is more fair...


Anyway there are some wording errors but please ignore them , i made this card really quick and i am not good in wording part anyway . Comments please ^^

[77trueblade77]

can i join as a creator and player

[tommers2008]

Nightmarian your ideas are pretty good... i think we should have some copy of searchers like

sangan/mystic tomato/ufo turtle/pyramid turtle... and the others like it aswel

ps.. kingdom i suggest a spoiler for your cards...

[AKC]

Please refrain from submitting any cards until either Nightmarian or myself have stated otherwise. As I said before we should be looking at starting the set 1 submission process soon.

I'm not picking on you in particular but I have to use your cards as an example. From the looks of things these cards are far too overpowered for Machine monsters and they would not be accepted into the CCG until they are edited to something more acceptable. Those of you who signed up as card balancers would be responsible for assiting this person in balancing the submissions so keep this in mind for things to come.

[kingdom01]

ok, i'll keep the cards till the right time, right now i'll delete the post

[kingdom01]

but may i ask u why did u say they are overpowered for machine monsters? didn't u say we must create a game that depends mostly on our cards and ideas, well sayin what u said means the opposite, because in yugioh old game, we were used to low ATK machine monsters and with simple effects, well here in YCM, we're creative, here is where we put our ideas and make them, and in ur game we apply these ideas, so i don't think that machine monsters must be different than other cards, if it was a warrior type set i bet u wouldn't say it's overpowered, please reply for this and tell me what u think

[Nightmarian]

Yeah we need searchers..not sure about Sangan , but here is Trap idea :

Corrupted Invasion
Normal Trap
When monster is destroyed as result of Battle you can activate this card.
Special Summon 1 Lv4 or less DARK monster with Attack 1500 or less from your Deck to your side of the field. You can activate only 1 "Corrupted Invasion" per Turn.

So there could be 1 for each Attribute...but i think we still need monsters that search for specific attribute...currently i dont have idea for something similar to Giant Rat..i mean , maybe we will got in that case same effect but different name...


Anyway we need some stall cards too..here are some ideas :

Gates of Order
Continous Spell
Neither player can declare attacks with face-up monsters with an ATK of 1400 or more. Pay 200 Life Points during each of your Standby Phases. If you do not, destroy this card.

Gruesome Slimeyard
Continous Trap
Only 1 monster can declare attack per turn. When monster attack place on it 1 "Slime" Counter at end of Damage Step. Monsters with "Slime" Counters cannot declare attack.

Somename (dont have time/idea right now ^^)
Continous Trap
You cannot activate this card if you control 2 or more monsters. Each player can only Summon 1 monster per turn. During the turn a monster is Summoned, this card cannot be removed from the field. When this card is removed from the field by your opponent's card effect neither player can Summon monsters or declare an attack until your next Standby Phase.

Comments?

Anyway , rules are almost finished and will come fast...it is really complex system...so that will be your first task i guess..to read and learn them all

Also i advice you to start creating cards (not submitting them) because when we start it would be good that we dont need to wait additional week.

When creating cards be creative , look if needed at existing cards in TCG and dont in any case make cards that are stronger then best / strong cards that are in TCG...

At start we need to start with weak cards that allow making creative deck and not to start with cards that negate all , destroy everything , swarm etc...

When making card try to make card that player need to use at right time to be good. Lot of cards in TCG is like that and because of it game is good to play.

For example card should not be able to protect itself or other cards against every danger that could happen.
That is why deck have 40 cards. They work together, protect each other, combo between etc. and make playable deck.

Look at TCG cards as reference but dont copy paste effects from them.
Also when staple pool will be made you will also need to think about those cards while making yours. And from Set 2 you will need to look at cards that already exist in our CCG while making yours. So it will be more and more complicated. That is why there will be lot of testings and everything to keep it good.

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(12-31-2008 08:20 AM)kingdom01 Wrote:  but may i ask u why did u say they are overpowered for machine monsters? didn't u say we must create a game that depends mostly on our cards and ideas, well sayin what u said means the opposite, because in yugioh old game, we were used to low ATK machine monsters and with simple effects, well here in YCM, we're creative, here is where we put our ideas and make them, and in ur game we apply these ideas, so i don't think that machine monsters must be different than other cards, if it was a warrior type set i bet u wouldn't say it's overpowered, please reply for this and tell me what u think

Problem with your cards is that they are making too easy to lock your opponent without any hard conditions. And this is starting of game , it is not good that all becomes so strong at start.
I think he meant that you must to be creative but u need to make balanced cards and be sure there are no some deadly combos.
We are making game that will be better then TCG , not submitting any random card that just came to our head.

Anyway i will comment your each card and warn you about each deadly combo if you can post them again please (in spoiler ) because i dont remember them anymore obv.
So i will point you problems i see in them so you can fix them / make them better if you want.

[tommers2008]

just some quick suggestions off my head..

Slime Buster (counter for Gruesome Slimeyard)
quick-play spell
Pay 500 points to remove all Slime counters from the field.

Poisonous Vine (run in 1 maybe)
Counter-trap
Discard 1 card from your hand to randomly destroy 1 card in your opponents hand.

Forgone Conclusion
Spell card
If your Life Points are more then 3000 below your opponents, your opponent must show you their hand this turn only. (that isn't worded correctly)

Stopping the inevitable
trap card
Activate when your Life Points are below 1000. Draw 2 cards, skip your next draw phase.

Cursic Chapter
Continuous Trap
Each time your opponent draws a card, they must discard 1 to the graveyard. Pay 500 points during your Standby Phase, if you do not this card is destroyed.

Happy Family
Quick-Play Spell
Activate this card when you Summon 1 Level 3 or lower monster to the field, both players can add up to 2 Level 3 monsters to their hand from the Deck. ( that could be changed to add 1 )

so there are just some ideas could be good or bad but they are just ideas at the moment..
also are we going to have equip cards..??

[kingdom01]

ok, i understand, i'll post the cards again

---

here are my cards

click here (Click to View)

[Nightmarian]

Tommers2008 - obv we gonna have equip cards...but we are making staple cards currently , there could be some equip spell too in them , but effects are more important.
Anyway comments on your cards, no offense please , just trying to help u :

-Slime Buster - this card can go with any cost. It is not like someone would run it anyway because it counter 1 card. It is much smarter to run spell/trap destruction to get rid of it.
-Poisonous Vine - for 1 Counter Trap is too good , so Normal Trap. I am still not sure in this one though.
-Forgone Conclusion - this could with discard 1 cost.
-Stopping the inevitable - i guess is ok. That card could find some deck where it would be used, for example some FTK/OTK deck that can decrease it Life Points fast.
-Cursic Chapter - erm, are you really serious? They would discard 1 card each time they draw any card , including cards in draw phase =/ .. instant ban, i dont even wanna bother fixing it
-Happy Family - at 2 no way.. at 1 is still really good searcher so dont know really. I guess it could be at limited, but as Normal Spell.

@Kingdom01 :

Executioner - this card is ok.

Punisher - i am not sure about this one. Level 4 Jinzo for Machine Type monsters. Ok at least it have 1600 Attack so it cant be searched so easyly ( maybe it can with your cards ) , but it shouldnt. Add that it cannot be Special Summoned from Deck.

Magnet and Crucifier - this two are just no...specially with Punisher in combination...


Tormentor - is again kinda broke even with first effect becaus Punisher exist . But second effect is omg..any Machine Type monster? It is not problem it can ss himself so you swarm your field with 3 but it can get easyly big monsters , then when is removed from field you ss him back with some other cards etc. Just no ^^

Anyway because there is so many easy special summons in your deck i show you how you can lock your opponent really easyly..
You only need 1 Tormentor , Magnet , Crucifier and Punisher on field. Your monsters would not be affected by any card effect and also they wouldnt be destroyed in battle...so they are immortal..then u get for 5th monster some big one and end of story...in any case this shouldnt happen ..and specially not so easyly as other cards enable you...


Omen - this thing is better then Cyber Dragon which is Limited. (check that card) So this is instant ban too.

Maller - ugh i afraid of this..so for example 1 of crazy combos in your cards ^^
First you Summon Tormentor that Special Summon Maller from Graveyard , then with Maller you special summon 1 Tormentor from Deck which then special summons 1 Maller from Graveyard which can get Magnate or something else :S

Inquisitor - broken. Why? Because it is level 4 3000! def monster with too low cost. Who cares for that 300 when this guy will pwn much more , create crazy stall etc.
D-Hero Defend Guy from TCG have 2700 Defense and it give to opponent to draw 1 card during your each Standby Phase. And it is still really good card and your card is two times stronger.


Harbringer is ok.

Abaddon is too good considering how easyly can he be Special Summoned. I would add to him some Summoning condition that would stop making him so splashable. Anyway that this is in TCG it would make whole deck around himself. Suddenly D-Hero Dasher decks would become alive because there is something that is maybe even better then Dark Magician of Chaos (which is banned right now)


Reload Station is broken as hell..who cards for 500 Life Points when u gonna hurt opponent lot more , you get 1 big monster for free each turn. Just no

Defense Shield - it is ok.

Fleet Attack - this is so broken. And by ignoring any Summoning condition you would kill lot of possible creations for Machine Type monsters because this would make them broken. So no again. Even that it ss 1 it would be broken so think about it. ^^

Apocalypse is ok. (obv this means if we ignore other cards)

Avatar is ok too..(same as above one)

Machine Factory is again broken as hell...free ss from deck (lol) each time your opponent summons monster. sigh

Counter Attack is broken as hell..considering how they are strong opponent will destroy them with card effects offently...erm,mah , it is broken even when i ignore what other cards can do..

Machine Resurrection is broke

Stargate - lol i would run this is any deck..again broken..

Underfire is ok...


Anyway..do u play Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG? You cannot make balanced cards if you dont have good dueling experience. Deck made with this cards will pwn any tier 1 TCG deck ^^
And we dont wanna be more broken then TCG...no offense but in your cards there is no originality either.
To help you making better cards (and everyone else) i advice you to do this :

1) Go to this link : http://yugioh.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_sear...t=Advanced
and read decks there and examine them. By clicking on card in deck you will be able to read it , so try to understand how that deck works. 1 card alone can seem crappy but look for all combos and if you have YVD try to dueling on IRC with that deck so that you learn more how Yugioh game works in competetive base.

2) When making card , if you dont have idea, try to think about something. This helps me sometimes. For example think about some object,person etc..lets use Santa Claus as example...this could sound stupid ^^...ok he is LIGHT attribute because he is so good and Fairy Type is also Type that best suits him.
Then we look at Attack...well he don't want to harm anyone so we give him 0...he is somehow fat so that is good defense - we give him 800 .
Now we make effect : lets say he loves to give gifts , so he could increase life points of both players with some condition. Then to make him more competetive i add that when he is destroyed in battle you can special summon from deck 1 santa claus or draw 1 card (that is gift he dropped).
We also add that Life Points cannot be decreased with card effects (this doesn't stop payments) so that Santa Claus cannot be combined with Simochi and similar cards.

So here he is :



Picture is stupid but i didn't want to bother with it. Anyway it is not matter his attack is low so when opponent destroys it (if you normal summoned him) you will lose lot of life points. If that bothers you , you can combine him with The Sanctuary in the Sky , Mirror Force etc to protect your life points.

3) Try to be creative and make effects that you didn't see before. This is soooo important. Everyone will love your cards more if they have something new in them because they will not be boring.

4) When making card always look at synergy with other cards , does your card makes them broken or other cards make broken your card. Also try to make card that will make some combinations work better or enable new deck type / combo. Always compare your card strength with strength of other cards that exist. You need to take in consideration level,attack,defense,type,attribute and effect.
Also if some decks are better then others then dont make cards that makes them even better but make support for decks that are not so good.


5) Combine all above rules to make best card ^^


It really helps in cards creating if creator understand game mechanics , making decks and dueling in competetive matches.
I hope i have helped someone.

[tommers2008]

on my cards.. im not arguing just giving my opinion..
don't mind my thing of counter trap/quick play etc i don't really get that aspect of designing cards you could always change that...


slime buster.. it could be used as remove all counters(on your slimeyard card you never said when this card is destroyed so are the counters.. and 1 atk per turn + when card does atk cant atk again seem op'd to me)

discard 1 opponent does same... not gamebreaking unless they rely on 1 card and are strategy's wont will they..?? suppose could be discard 2 opponents discards 1

you're already 3000 lower and only see hand once.. ..???

usually in a duel if you are under 1000 its either trouble or self inflicted.. this card helps both and has the drawback of skipping next draw phase..

yea i meant outside draw phase cant believe i 4got to write that..

i meant it could be both add 1 level 3 or lower and yes could be run as 1..
and again i said don't mind my judgment on normal spell/counter and stuff...

i have more ideas should i post them..??

[kingdom01]

for Nightmarian :
well, i have two things to say, first thing is thx for the infos, i loved ur critisim
the second thing is: HELL, U SHOULD BE A SUPER MODERATOR!!!!!!!!

[Nightmarian]

You dont need to say that when card with counters is destroyed that counters are destroyed too. ^^ That is written in rulings of Yugioh game. Counters must be on some card , they cannot be placed on field. I think it is still more balanced then Gravity Bind or Level Limit Area B.

Poisonous Vine - opponent cannot chain normal traps to Counter Traps and because this card is strong enough by itself it doesnt deserve to be Counter Trap.
Why it is good? Because you can discard for example D-Hero Malicious or other card u dont want or want in grave while it discards randomly card in opp hand. So it can destroy something that is important to them. Keeping good cards in hand and playing them at right time is in competitive duels really important believe me. Anyway i told u that this card is not problem when it is Normal Trap so you dont need to do anything i guess...it is more balanced then Phoenix Wing Blast for example.

Forgone Conclusion - there is nothing broken with this card..but in your version i dont think someone would use it...that is why i suggested discarding 1 and using it at any time...you can also make it quick spell...

Stopping the inevitable - could be used in specific deck type , but works in any deck too (it is not easy to use which is great)...just leave it like it is , it is ok...

Cursic Chapter - still broken...here i will show you why .. make deck combining your card with this cards :
Dark World Dealings
Group: Spell Card
Type: Spell
Each player draws 1 card. Then each player discards 1 card.
-at end your opponent would discard 1 more

Card Destruction
Group: Spell Card
Type: Spell
You and your opponent discard your entire hands and draw the same number of cards from your respective Decks that you discarded.
-same, this one is limited btw..

Morphing Jar , Dark Bribe (pwn) , Hand Destruction etc etc etc....

Anyway , obviously this cards are not in our CCG..but there is high possibility there will be card effects that will make your opponent..that is why i am telling u that...
You can fix your card by making that it activates when your opponent draw cards with HIS card effect.

You can post them , just to warn you that cards you posted are not really staple cards.

Anyway , this is for anyone , try making cards similars to one i posted in first post and also we need cards that will replace :
-pot of avarice
-creature swap
-we need search monsters like Giant Rat, Uforoid Turtle etc...
-we need 1 monster that destroy opponents monsters with it card effect
-we need card that inflicts effect damage when opponents attack ( Magic Cylinder)
-we need card similar to Bottomless Trap Hole
-we need card similar to Waboku and 1 similar to Enemy Controller

We will also make at start few Synchros , Tuners , normal monsters (lv4 with 1900 etc.) and maybe import Exodia parts.

That would be all what we will need to have some reference for start making cards. Anyway rules are close for finishing so expect in this days they will be posted so that all can start for real finnaly ^^