Because I just got the final print issue of SJ. [No. 30: Acid Golem of Destruction]

[Alice Moonflowyr]

17 can get run over, and once it loses the materials, it only has 2k. Plus, if you somehow run it, Prime Material Dragon means you get bonus. And you can easily push for game with this sucker. Take 4k burn if you can, clear the field with him and some other dudes, then take no burn when you inflict 6k to your opp.

Plus, and I cannot stress this enough, RANK THREEEEEEE!

EDIT: As for what it can run over, hmmm...lets think.....oh, nearly EVERYTHING!
Hyperion, Scrap Dragon, Starfag, Gachi Gachi, GEPD, REDMD, and a whole bunch of others.
FHD eats these guys for breakfast, yeah, but FHD is an exception to almost anything.

[SANDAA BORUTO]

I run this in all of my decks on DN.

LIEK A BAWS

[This Account is Unplayable]

[quote name='Dworkin' timestamp='1330792482' post='5854026']
17 can get run over, and once it loses the materials, it only has 2k. Plus, if you somehow run it, Prime Material Dragon means you get bonus. And you can easily push for game with this sucker. Take 4k burn if you can, clear the field with him and some other dudes, then take no burn when you inflict 6k to your opp.

Plus, and I cannot stress this enough, RANK THREEEEEEE!
[/quote]

When it's "lost all its materials" it has 3k you nitwit.

Yes, Rank 3, one of the best ranks possible to summon. Have to read Zenmaines? Have you read Leviair? Have you read Number 17? Have you read Number 20? Have you read OOParts Alien? Have you read Black Ray-*shot*

[Alice Moonflowyr]

17 has 2k when it has no materials. wtf are you talking about.
Leviair I only see run in rabbit, and also the Rank 3 with the worst stats that i've seen.
17 is alright.
Zenmaines is what you go to instead of 30 unless you need to a. Run over a boss monster or b. Push for game.

Your entire logic is based around it burning the person controlling it, which is easily remidied by things like Creature Swap and Mystic Box, although I dunno why people would run that anymore.

Yes, the fact that it doesnt let you SS is not so great, but decks like Inzektor dont give much of a f*** about SSing.

[evilfusion]

[quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330792481' post='5854025']
Such as?
[/quote]

Stardust, who is otherwise immune to Zenmaines and ties with Leviathan.
Grapha (w/o Gates).
Hyperion
Gem-Knight Pearl
Threatening to Number 39
Leviathan

Pretty much every beater still played in the game is able to be run over by Acid Golem. But never try to Summon it against Galaxy-Eyes. It won't end well for you.

What makes Acid Golem special is it's a generic Rank 3 Xyz requiring 2 Materials and 3000 ATK/DEF. Tour Guide is still an instant Rank 3.

You dont just bring out Acid Golem early game. It's a mid-to-late game enormous beater.

As for Black Ray Lancer, it's not generic, and Crystal Alien doesn't run over much, its purpose is to stall and damage the opponent who already has a big beater. And you never run this INSTEAD of running at least 1 Leviair, Leviathan, or Zenmaines. You run it IN ADDITION to at least one copy of each. Leviair is amazing, but you only run multiple Leviair if you either USE a Deck that banishes/retrieves a lot, or your greatest enemy is banish Decks.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Black Ray Lancer should've been an obvious joke.

From that list you just gave me, approximately 0 of those conditions are really useful, except for Utopia. In Utopia's case, Zenmaines or OOParts Alien are almost entirely better, since Utopia stalls your materials.

If I want to tech extra rank 3s, I'll be running 2 Zenmaines and 2 17s before even considering this.

I know it's a mid-late game monster, I'm not stupid. All I'm saying is this is a waste of extra deck space. You have a set 15 card limit on a permanent toolbox, why would I want bad cards in my toolbox?

[Alice Moonflowyr]

You dont want bad cards in your toolbox. 30 is good. But, like I said,
[quote name='Dworkin' timestamp='1330792813' post='5854032']
Your entire logic is based around it burning the person controlling it, which is easily remidied by things like Creature Swap and Mystic Box, although I dunno why people would run that anymore.
[/quote]

[This Account is Unplayable]

My logic is based around its no SS clause.

My logic is based around its lack of real use.

My logic is based around the fact that I like to optimise a deck's competitive ability.

My logic is not based around the fact it can be run in its own deck, which unsurprisingly isn't competitively adept.

[evilfusion]

[quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330793015' post='5854040']
Black Ray Lancer should've been an obvious joke.

From that list you just gave me, approximately 0 of those conditions are really useful, except for Utopia. In Utopia's case, Zenmaines or OOParts Alien are almost entirely better, since Utopia stalls your materials.

If I want to tech extra rank 3s, I'll be running 2 Zenmaines and 2 17s before even considering this.

I know it's a mid-late game monster, I'm not stupid. All I'm saying is this is a waste of extra deck space. You have a set 15 card limit on a permanent toolbox, why would I want bad cards in my toolbox?
[/quote]

Okay. That's fine if you prefer to do that. It's your playstyle or whatever. I'd put this instead of the second Number 17, though. There really are times you rather have a 3000 beater than a 2500 that needs another turn to be 3000.

And this laughs at Skill Drain decks/techs.

[This Account is Unplayable]

I'm not saying this will never work, though. I'm pointing out that in most cases this card is only going to hinder your competitive viability. The odds of you even summoning this are probably around... half the odds of ever needing the second copy of the Rank 3 you chose not to include instead.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

It has it's own deck? Huh.

The no SS clause can be a pain, yeah, but when your beating your opp to a pulp with a single monster, you really arent going to be thinking about SSing now are you?

Lack of real use. *bursts into laughter*

Optimise...decks....competitive....ability.....*falls off chair cus laughing so hard*

*gets up* Haaa....ur funny. Really though, have you even noticed that you are the ONLY one who says this is bad? Leads me to belive that you're either trolling or stupid.

EDIT:
[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1330793268' post='5854048']
And this laughs at Skill Drain decks/techs.
[/quote]This too.

[This Account is Unplayable]

I swear, is Jeremy the only one here that can make a decent set of points?

Insulting gets you nowhere, when your points are so easily flawed, or non-existent in the first place. =/

[CDDRodrigo]

Let me get something straight here:

Tristan is not trolling. He's seeing the card differently than most on this thread. He's also a spike player, so he looks up to the win always. this card can backfire easier than the other ones he mentioned, compromising the win objective.

This argument is one of the best I've seen lately on YCM, and both sides have valid points. Depending on the deck, for example, Inzektors, you can run this because after you cleared their field a 3000 beater is nice, and because Inzektors have lots of Extra Deck Space. In other decks where the Extra Deck is tight, this is not between the first choices.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

Yeah also, and I shoulda done this before, Life Points matter now? Well, guess I better start running Draining Shield!

I already made all my points. I now commence laughing at the way you attempt to defy them. You dont explain why you think its bad, you just state things that dont really matter and/or have a viable fix.

[evilfusion]

You know how some cards look amazing on paper, but actually suck?

This is a card that looks like it sucks on paper, but is actually respectable.

It's not an insta-staple the way Zenmaines, Leviair, and Leviathan are. But it IS worth an Extra Deck slot if you use a solid Rank 3 option that won't prefer the aforementioned cards 100% of the time. In other words, a Deck that doesn't run a wide variety of outs to various opponents. If you can't afford the Extra Deck space, that's fine. But the actual odds of finding 2 Zenmaines and 2 Leviathan good (I don't think I've EVER wanted to Summon a second Number 17 outside of the early Xyz era) is slimmer than finding Acid Golem useful in that rare situation.

[This Account is Unplayable]

[quote name='Mu-12' timestamp='1330793537' post='5854054']
Let me get something straight here:

Tristan is not trolling. He's seeing the card differently than most on this thread. He's also a spike player, so he looks up to the win always. this card can backfire easier than the other ones he mentioned, compromising the win objective.

This argument is one of the best I've seen lately on YCM, and both sides have valid points. Depending on the deck, for example, Inzektors, you can run this because after you cleared their field a 3000 beater is nice, and because Inzektors have lots of Extra Deck Space. In other decks where the Extra Deck is tight, this is not between the first choices.
[/quote]

Actually this I agree with, but only because Inzektors have a stupidly lenient Extra Deck. In any other deck that can make this, my point still stands.

[evilfusion]

[quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330793448' post='5854052']
I swear, is Jeremy the only one here that can make a decent set of points?
[/quote]

Do you know how eerie it is to be referenced by my first name, which very few people know in the first place, and the ones who do learned it because of my MSN account telling them, rather than me doing so?

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Tristan thinks Acid Golem is bad. It's an opinion, and he's not required to accept the merits it does have. It's better than he gives it credit for, in practice, but it's got enough flaws to dislike it, too.

[This Account is Unplayable]

[quote name='Dworkin' timestamp='1330793573' post='5854055']
Yeah also, and I shoulda done this before, Life Points matter now? Well, guess I better start running Draining Shield!

I already made all my points. I now commence laughing at the way you attempt to defy them. You dont explain why you think its bad, you just state things that dont really matter and/or have a viable fix.
[/quote]

You suggested Mystic Box as a way to alleviate this card's issues and left it at that...

Also, there's a reason I have an ego, I can actually back it up.


[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1330793602' post='5854056']
You know how some cards look amazing on paper, but actually suck?

This is a card that looks like it sucks on paper, but is actually respectable.

It's not an insta-staple the way Zenmaines, Leviair, and Leviathan are. But it IS worth an Extra Deck slot if you use a solid Rank 3 option that won't prefer the aforementioned cards 100% of the time. In other words, a Deck that doesn't run a wide variety of outs to various opponents. If you can't afford the Extra Deck space, that's fine. But the actual odds of finding 2 Zenmaines and 2 Leviathan good (I don't think I've EVER wanted to Summon a second Number 17 outside of the early Xyz era) is slimmer than finding Acid Golem useful in that rare situation.
[/quote]

Again, I said that most of the time extra deck space will be too tight. And again, odds are you'll summon the second 17 more often than a single 30. Both are very unlikely situations, but it's best to prepare for the more likely. It's best to lose say 1 in 100 games than 1 in 50 because of that extra deck choice.

I understand it may be decent in practice, but unfortunately PEMN, and this card just doesn't fit the odds for a competitively optimised deck in almost any situation.

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1330793778' post='5854064']
Do you know how eerie it is to be referenced by my first name, which very few people know in the first place, and the ones who do learned it because of my MSN account telling them, rather than me doing so?
[/quote]

Actually you can blame the Monkey for me knowing. :3

[CDDRodrigo]

[quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330793870' post='5854066']
Actually you can blame the Monkey for me knowing. :3
[/quote]

I swear I'll change my name to Monkey Rod next time I can. :3

OT: So, both [s]JEREMY[/s] evilfusion and [s]CHRIS[/s] Tristan know how to make a healthy argument, and both have valid, interesting points.

I stand by what I said: If your Extra Deck is vague, run this.

And who so ever runs this in Rabbit is bad.

[Welche the crab]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1330793778' post='5854064']
Do you know how eerie it is to be referenced by my first name, which very few people know in the first place, and the ones who do learned it because of my MSN account telling them, rather than me doing so?

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Tristan thinks Acid Golem is bad. It's an opinion, and he's not required to accept the merits it does have. It's better than he gives it credit for, in practice, but it's got enough flaws to dislike it, too.
[/quote]

Actually I learnt your first name from William even though he denied it at the time.

Acid Golem is a personal choice but I like having it there to ram BLS.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

Why on earth would you run it in rabbit....?

[This Account is Unplayable]

[quote name='Mu-12' timestamp='1330793982' post='5854075']
I swear I'll change my name to Monkey Rod next time I can. :3

OT: So, both [s]JEREMY[/s] evilfusion and [s]CHRIS[/s] Tristan know how to make a healthy argument, and both have valid, interesting points.

I stand by what I said: If your Extra Deck is vague, run this.

And who so ever runs this in Rabbit is bad.
[/quote]

I agree with every word of this post.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330793628' post='5854057']
Actually this I agree with, but only because Inzektors have a stupidly lenient Extra Deck. In any other deck that can make this, my point still stands.
[/quote]

Granted. Tbqh, it's more personal preference than anything. I like it incase I end up with my opponent having Crimson Blader/Scrap/Hyperion etc and I draw TGU(That is, when I'm playing with TCG exclusives).

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[quote name='Dworkin' timestamp='1330794031' post='5854080']
Why on earth would you run it in rabbit....?
[/quote]

Because it runs TGU, one of your arguments for why to run this.

[Merci]

I run an Acid Golem deck. And guess what? I WIN WITH THEM, USING PRIME MATERIAL AND BARREL BEHIND THE DOOR AND MAGICAL BOX AND STUFF. *ahem* This is one of my favorite cards. Seriously. Sure, it prohibits Special Summoning, but seriously. It can potentially increase your LP or damage your opponents' by 2000. And the Xyz-detaching thing is OPTIONAL. Okay, so its downsides balance it out, but really. First thing's first, it's a THREE THOUSAND ATK beatstick easily summonable by Tour Guide. Maybe Leviair, Leviathan, and Zenmaines have better overall options, this can run over all those pesky monsters over 2500+ ATK easily for two turns. And once again, I repeat, the 2000-taking-damage thing is OPTIONAL. It's either that or detaching an Xyz material. So if you've got your Prime Material or Barrel Behind the Door prepared, then you don't have to waste that last precious Xyz Material just yet which will render your Acid Golem a useless sitting duck. And when your Acid Golem DOES run out of Xyz Materials, well, that's what Magical Box and Creature Swap are for, right? And once it's stuck on your opponent's field, they'll have difficulty getting rid of it, since it'll hinder them from Special Summoning it and will damage them 2000 points per turn. I don't know about you, but the usual amount of decks that have cards like Barrel Behind The Door and Prime Material are very, VERY not often seen. Why? Because they, I have to admit, aren't actually that practical compared to the meta and stuff. But still, since your opponent has like only a 1/1000 chance of running cards like those, they're guaranteed to suffer 2000 per turn. Of course, you'd have to stall for them to die, but it counts, especially when they can't special summon their silly Synchros and Xyzes and whatnot, so they'll have difficulty beating you down. If they run Steelswarms however, or Monarchs, or something similar, well, that's a rare occassion usually. Thing is, Acid Golem of Destruction isn't at all useless. Its effect merely balances it out. Its first function is to act as a 3000 ATK beatstick, allowing it to run over your opponent's newly-summoned annoying Trishula and whatever other monster like that. and then you can use other cards to take advantage of its 2000-damage effect, redirecting that damage either to your opponent or converting it into increasing [i]yours.[/i] And finally, it can be used as a more effective yet harder to exchange Lava Golem, which I have no doubt this was based on. After using a Magical Box or Creature Swap, it'll hinder and block your opponents' Special Summons. Also, your opponent can't use it to attack you when it's out of Xyz Materials, as was the dangerous flaw with Laval Golem and Volcanic Queen. And finally, your opponent will suffer 2000 damage every turn, powerless to stop it. They'd have to resort to quickly beating you down, but how can they if they can't [i][b]Special Summon?[/b][/i] And we all know pretty much everyone relies on special summoning. That's pretty much it.

In other words; it's not spashable in the long run, but it's balanced. And there you have it. My personal point of view on this particular card.

[b]Edit:[/b] yay. I was ninja'd by over thirty replies. Wow.