90 replies to this topic

[This Account is Unplayable]

Let me get something straight here:

Tristan is not trolling. He's seeing the card differently than most on this thread. He's also a spike player, so he looks up to the win always. this card can backfire easier than the other ones he mentioned, compromising the win objective.

This argument is one of the best I've seen lately on YCM, and both sides have valid points. Depending on the deck, for example, Inzektors, you can run this because after you cleared their field a 3000 beater is nice, and because Inzektors have lots of Extra Deck Space. In other decks where the Extra Deck is tight, this is not between the first choices.

Actually this I agree with, but only because Inzektors have a stupidly lenient Extra Deck. In any other deck that can make this, my point still stands.

[evilfusion]

I swear, is Jeremy the only one here that can make a decent set of points?

Do you know how eerie it is to be referenced by my first name, which very few people know in the first place, and the ones who do learned it because of my MSN account telling them, rather than me doing so?

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Tristan thinks Acid Golem is bad. It's an opinion, and he's not required to accept the merits it does have. It's better than he gives it credit for, in practice, but it's got enough flaws to dislike it, too.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Yeah also, and I shoulda done this before, Life Points matter now? Well, guess I better start running Draining Shield!

I already made all my points. I now commence laughing at the way you attempt to defy them. You dont explain why you think its bad, you just state things that dont really matter and/or have a viable fix.

You suggested Mystic Box as a way to alleviate this card's issues and left it at that...

Also, there's a reason I have an ego, I can actually back it up.

You know how some cards look amazing on paper, but actually suck?

This is a card that looks like it sucks on paper, but is actually respectable.

It's not an insta-staple the way Zenmaines, Leviair, and Leviathan are. But it IS worth an Extra Deck slot if you use a solid Rank 3 option that won't prefer the aforementioned cards 100% of the time. In other words, a Deck that doesn't run a wide variety of outs to various opponents. If you can't afford the Extra Deck space, that's fine. But the actual odds of finding 2 Zenmaines and 2 Leviathan good (I don't think I've EVER wanted to Summon a second Number 17 outside of the early Xyz era) is slimmer than finding Acid Golem useful in that rare situation.

Again, I said that most of the time extra deck space will be too tight. And again, odds are you'll summon the second 17 more often than a single 30. Both are very unlikely situations, but it's best to prepare for the more likely. It's best to lose say 1 in 100 games than 1 in 50 because of that extra deck choice.

I understand it may be decent in practice, but unfortunately PEMN, and this card just doesn't fit the odds for a competitively optimised deck in almost any situation.

Do you know how eerie it is to be referenced by my first name, which very few people know in the first place, and the ones who do learned it because of my MSN account telling them, rather than me doing so?

Actually you can blame the Monkey for me knowing. :3

[CDDRodrigo]

Actually you can blame the Monkey for me knowing. :3

I swear I'll change my name to Monkey Rod next time I can. :3

OT: So, both JEREMY evilfusion and CHRIS Tristan know how to make a healthy argument, and both have valid, interesting points.

I stand by what I said: If your Extra Deck is vague, run this.

And who so ever runs this in Rabbit is bad.

[Welche]

Do you know how eerie it is to be referenced by my first name, which very few people know in the first place, and the ones who do learned it because of my MSN account telling them, rather than me doing so?

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Tristan thinks Acid Golem is bad. It's an opinion, and he's not required to accept the merits it does have. It's better than he gives it credit for, in practice, but it's got enough flaws to dislike it, too.

Actually I learnt your first name from William even though he denied it at the time.

Acid Golem is a personal choice but I like having it there to ram BLS.

[Ke-Nan]

Why on earth would you run it in rabbit....?

[This Account is Unplayable]

I swear I'll change my name to Monkey Rod next time I can. :3

OT: So, both JEREMY evilfusion and CHRIS Tristan know how to make a healthy argument, and both have valid, interesting points.

I stand by what I said: If your Extra Deck is vague, run this.

And who so ever runs this in Rabbit is bad.

I agree with every word of this post.

[Glorious Shardstrom]

Actually this I agree with, but only because Inzektors have a stupidly lenient Extra Deck. In any other deck that can make this, my point still stands.

Granted. Tbqh, it's more personal preference than anything. I like it incase I end up with my opponent having Crimson Blader/Scrap/Hyperion etc and I draw TGU(That is, when I'm playing with TCG exclusives).

[This Account is Unplayable]

Why on earth would you run it in rabbit....?

Because it runs TGU, one of your arguments for why to run this.

[Kirei Kotomine]

I run an Acid Golem deck. And guess what? I WIN WITH THEM, USING PRIME MATERIAL AND BARREL BEHIND THE DOOR AND MAGICAL BOX AND STUFF. *ahem* This is one of my favorite cards. Seriously. Sure, it prohibits Special Summoning, but seriously. It can potentially increase your LP or damage your opponents' by 2000. And the Xyz-detaching thing is OPTIONAL. Okay, so its downsides balance it out, but really. First thing's first, it's a THREE THOUSAND ATK beatstick easily summonable by Tour Guide. Maybe Leviair, Leviathan, and Zenmaines have better overall options, this can run over all those pesky monsters over 2500+ ATK easily for two turns. And once again, I repeat, the 2000-taking-damage thing is OPTIONAL. It's either that or detaching an Xyz material. So if you've got your Prime Material or Barrel Behind the Door prepared, then you don't have to waste that last precious Xyz Material just yet which will render your Acid Golem a useless sitting duck. And when your Acid Golem DOES run out of Xyz Materials, well, that's what Magical Box and Creature Swap are for, right? And once it's stuck on your opponent's field, they'll have difficulty getting rid of it, since it'll hinder them from Special Summoning it and will damage them 2000 points per turn. I don't know about you, but the usual amount of decks that have cards like Barrel Behind The Door and Prime Material are very, VERY not often seen. Why? Because they, I have to admit, aren't actually that practical compared to the meta and stuff. But still, since your opponent has like only a 1/1000 chance of running cards like those, they're guaranteed to suffer 2000 per turn. Of course, you'd have to stall for them to die, but it counts, especially when they can't special summon their silly Synchros and Xyzes and whatnot, so they'll have difficulty beating you down. If they run Steelswarms however, or Monarchs, or something similar, well, that's a rare occassion usually. Thing is, Acid Golem of Destruction isn't at all useless. Its effect merely balances it out. Its first function is to act as a 3000 ATK beatstick, allowing it to run over your opponent's newly-summoned annoying Trishula and whatever other monster like that. and then you can use other cards to take advantage of its 2000-damage effect, redirecting that damage either to your opponent or converting it into increasing yours. And finally, it can be used as a more effective yet harder to exchange Lava Golem, which I have no doubt this was based on. After using a Magical Box or Creature Swap, it'll hinder and block your opponents' Special Summons. Also, your opponent can't use it to attack you when it's out of Xyz Materials, as was the dangerous flaw with Laval Golem and Volcanic Queen. And finally, your opponent will suffer 2000 damage every turn, powerless to stop it. They'd have to resort to quickly beating you down, but how can they if they can't Special Summon? And we all know pretty much everyone relies on special summoning. That's pretty much it.

In other words; it's not spashable in the long run, but it's balanced. And there you have it. My personal point of view on this particular card.

Edit: yay. I was ninja'd by over thirty replies. Wow.

[Ke-Nan]

Uh-huh. Run TGU in other things too. This sucks in rabbit......

[Greiga te Jalokia]

Why on earth would you run it in rabbit....?

It actually was good in Rabbit when it came out.

Then we got the good Rank 4s.

[This Account is Unplayable]

I run an Acid Golem deck. And guess what? I WIN WITH THEM, USING PRIME MATERIAL AND BARREL BEHIND THE DOOR AND MAGICAL BOX AND STUFF. *random raeging*

This is one of my favorite cards. Seriously. Sure, it prohibits Special Summoning, but seriously. It can potentially increase your LP or damage your opponents' by 2000. And the Xyz-detaching thing is OPTIONAL. Okay, so its downsides balance it out, but really. First thing's first, it's a THREE THOUSAND ATK beatstick easily summonable by Tour Guide. Maybe Leviair, Leviathan, and Zenmaines have better overall options, this can run over all those pesky monsters over 2500+ ATK easily for two turns. And once again, I repeat, the 2000-taking-damage thing is OPTIONAL. It's either that or detaching an Xyz material. So if you've got your Prime Material or Barrel Behind the Door prepared, then you don't have to waste that last precious Xyz Material just yet which will render your Acid Golem a useless sitting duck. And when your Acid Golem DOES run out of Xyz Materials, well, that's what Magical Box and Creature Swap are for, right? And once it's stuck on your opponent's field, they'll have difficulty getting rid of it, since it'll hinder them from Special Summoning it and will damage them 2000 points per turn. I don't know about you, but the usual amount of decks that have cards like Barrel Behind The Door and Prime Material are very, VERY not often seen. Why? Because they, I have to admit, aren't actually that practical compared to the meta and stuff. But still, since your opponent has like only a 1/1000 chance of running cards like those, they're guaranteed to suffer 2000 per turn. Of course, you'd have to stall for them to die, but it counts, especially when they can't special summon their silly Synchros and Xyzes and whatnot, so they'll have difficulty beating you down. If they run Steelswarms however, or Monarchs, or something similar, well, that's a rare occassion usually. Thing is, Acid Golem of Destruction isn't at all useless. Its effect merely balances it out. Its first function is to act as a 3000 ATK beatstick, allowing it to run over your opponent's newly-summoned annoying Trishula and whatever other monster like that. and then you can use other cards to take advantage of its 2000-damage effect, redirecting that damage either to your opponent or converting it into increasing yours. And finally, it can be used as a more effective yet harder to exchange Lava Golem, which I have no doubt this was based on. After using a Magical Box or Creature Swap, it'll hinder and block your opponents' Special Summons. Also, your opponent can't use it to attack you when it's out of Xyz Materials, as was the dangerous flaw with Laval Golem and Volcanic Queen. And finally, your opponent will suffer 2000 damage every turn, powerless to stop it. They'd have to resort to quickly beating you down, but how can they if they can't Special Summon? And we all know pretty much everyone relies on special summoning.

In other words; it's not spashable in the long run, but it's balanced. And there you have it. My personal point of view on this particular card.

You have successfully argued that a card can be run in a deck that focuses on that card.

Congratu-f***ing-lations.

[evilfusion]

Running Acid Golem is completely reliant on your Deck strategy. Most of my Decks ignore it, because they run more Rank 4s and the like and need the space for the amazing Rank 4s that you'll definitely want. Tour Guide may be a Rank 3 producer, but in most Decks, Tour isn't the only Xyz engine and it's only good for 2 Xyz without using Avarice/Emeral.

But if you run a more Rank 3-centric Deck in favor of Rank 4s or Synchros, Acid Golem is worth a slot. Like my Photon Sanctuary Deck. Tour Guide is literally one of the driving forces of the Deck, so having a variety of Rank 3s is significantly more important than Rank 4s, because I dont run a lot of Level 4 monsters to Xyz with. So I run Leviair, Leviathan, Giga-Brilliant, Acid Golem, and Zenmaines, all at 1 because I rarely try to Summon the same one twice, and Acid Golem was put in when I realized that the Deck genuinely wanted that option for a number of situations.

Due to Acid Golem's downsides, plus the focus of a Rabbit Deck on Special Summoning using Leviair and Rabbit, PLUS the cramped nature of needing more Rank 4 space due to Rabbit being an Xyz engine, and even MORE space if you run Verz Rabbit, Acid Golem has no place there.

[Kirei Kotomine]

You have successfully argued that a card can be run in a deck that focuses on that card.

Congratu-f***ing-lations.[/sarcasm]

You're welcome. I just had to explain its benefits. There's not much to it in other decks, though, other than being a 3000 ATK beatstick that can backfire easily. My suggestion? Don't run it in other decks. Don't waste precious Extra Deck space. Leviathan, Leviair, and Zenmaines can fill those spots. It's practically useless in other decks. Spashable, yes, maybe a little, but useless. It's dangerous, it can backfire too easily. The no-special-summon thing is waaayyy toooo dangerous for a deck that relies on it.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Running Acid Golem is completely reliant on your Deck strategy. Most of my Decks ignore it, because they run more Rank 4s and the like and need the space for the amazing Rank 4s that you'll definitely want. Tour Guide may be a Rank 3 producer, but in most Decks, Tour isn't the only Xyz engine and it's only good for 2 Xyz without using Avarice/Emeral.

But if you run a more Rank 3-centric Deck in favor of Rank 4s or Synchros, Acid Golem is worth a slot. Like my Photon Sanctuary Deck. Tour Guide is literally one of the driving forces of the Deck, so having a variety of Rank 3s is significantly more important than Rank 4s, because I dont run a lot of Level 4 monsters to Xyz with. So I run Leviair, Leviathan, Giga-Brilliant, Acid Golem, and Zenmaines, all at 1 because I rarely try to Summon the same one twice, and Acid Golem was put in when I realized that the Deck genuinely wanted that option for a number of situations.

Due to Acid Golem's downsides, plus the focus of a Rabbit Deck on Special Summoning using Leviair and Rabbit, PLUS the cramped nature of needing more Rank 4 space due to Rabbit being an Xyz engine, and even MORE space if you run Verz Rabbit, Acid Golem has no place there.

Ok so the first point I've already said in this thread, and agreed with, so I won't comment.

I still stand by my idea that it's best to have 2 Zenmaines and 2 17 before even considering this. The downside this brings can lose you the game, especially in any deck that special summons. Since your Xyz summoning this, I'd assume that that includes the deck you're using.

I agree.

[evilfusion]

On the note of "dangerous", I remember facing a Dark World player who brought out Acid Golem and then got stalled long enough for Golem to become a bad thing. He had to waste his own Dark Hole to get rid of it. I think I still lost the Duel (this was back when Dark World was at its prime), but it was amusing.

[This Account is Unplayable]

That's one of the biggest cons to even playing it. Most players can stall out against certain cards, and this is one of them. If you waste any turns with this thing because your opponent prevents you from making a play, you get 1 turn closer to losing and start to lose control of the game, eventually, your opponent can control the entire board just by leaving this untouched.

[evilfusion]

That's why I tend to only bring out Golem when doing so is either an advantage, or I have a method of getting rid of it without Special Summoning.

[Man in a Tree]

I run it like its Lava counterpart: Burn its materials, Swap it to opponent's side and laugh.