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TCG Suggestion: Get rid of cards with unconfirmed effects


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What I mean is, if a card doesn't have an effect, it's stats, and possibly its name if it's effect may have something to do with it, it shouldn't have a discussion topic about it.

People just wanna be the first to post a topic about a card but that does an incredible disservice to the community as a whole. It's just speculation if you can't see half the effect, and speculation isn't discussion because whatever I speculate is no more valid than what someone speculates it's gonna be.

Why I think unconfirmed effects shouldn't be allowed:

- If there's little-to-no effect on the card, all we get is really awful, no-discussion spam

- If there's an effect but it's wrong, we all get sidetracked by some useless effect that does not exist.

- If there's a topic about a card already and the effect was wrong, no one's gonna want to necrobump it to correct it and have an actual discussion on it, and remaking topics we juuust talked about has a bad stigma on TCG.

- The only 'benefit' to allow cards with unconfirmed effects are the once-in-a-while times when the effects are correct, but all that does is make a discussion topic come out a little bit earlier than it would have without the rule. It's not a major loss.

To use other sections as an example, Rinne doesn't allow 'incomplete' or 'work in progress' chapters-of-stories in the Creative Writing section. Created Cards don't allow [Artwork], [Effect Coming Soon].

So why does TCG allow unconfirmed or even largely incomplete cards to be posted?

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There is usually a basis for the unconfirmed effect, but to be brutally honest the reason to keep them is they draw traffic.  People look around on the internet to find the effect of these cards and some will come to YCM for it.  Traffic = more potential members = more members = more real discussion

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You don't even play the game...

 

Hell, sometimes there is fun in speculating what a card's effect will be, if it's an unreleasing anime card, in trying to figure out what kind of buff/nerf a card will get and seeing all of the crazy ideas people come up with.

 

- If there's little-to-no effect on the card, all we get is really awful, no-discussion spam

- If there's an effect but it's wrong, we all get sidetracked by some useless effect that does not exist.

 

These are both wrong. We hardly ever talk about cards that have little to no effects (vanillas) anyway, so you can't use that on the basis of cads with unconfirmed effects. It STILL has an effect, it most likely will, it's just that the anime doesn't fully reveal it's effect yet.

 

To use other sections as an example, Rinne doesn't allow 'incomplete' or 'work in progress' chapters-of-stories in the Creative Writing section. Created Cards don't allow [Artwork], [Effect Coming Soon].

 

Pointing fingers at other sections makes you look like a massive bitch/asshole/cunt/whateverthehellyouare. You can't use that as a concrete argument for what another section does wrong.

 

In my opinion, you're looking at this from the wrong angle. Speculation is mainly a good thing and the spam only comes from the idiots that make it spammy, which more or less deserve to be banned. It's not a problem of the section as a whole, like you claim.

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Unconfirmed is fine, however topics like this...

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/313334-no-no-no-the-arc-v-retarded-pink-hippo-is-a-carddddd-entermate-discover-hippo-anime/

Where there is currently no effect due to the effect being unclear and not translatable should not need to exist. I can only support to a very minor degree, because speculation on unconfirmed effects is perfectly fine

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There is usually a basis for the unconfirmed effect, but to be brutally honest the reason to keep them is they draw traffic.


No, what they do is draw spam, which is something that the mods should be working to prevent.
 

You don't even play the game...


One time when I was 9, I didn't have a proper counterargument to refute a point, so instead I attacked the person making that point. Happy 9th birthday!
 

Hell, sometimes there is fun in speculating what a card's effect will be,


And there's "fun" in posting "the person below me ate salad for lunch today".

I won't argue what people find fun or not fun, but I will argue that it has no position in a section marked for TCG Discussion. If you want to have a discussion, have a discussion. If you want to post "I think this card does [X]", that's no more valid a point then anyone else can make.
 

if it's an unreleasing anime card, in trying to figure out what kind of buff/nerf a card will get and seeing all of the crazy ideas people come up with.


Anime Cards are already free to be discussed in TCG Section.
 

These are both wrong. We hardly ever talk about cards that have little to no effects (vanillas) anyway, so you can't use that on the basis of cads with unconfirmed effects. It STILL has an effect, it most likely will, it's just that the anime doesn't fully reveal it's effect yet.


So if a card has an unknown effect, just what the hell would you be discussing? The card art?
 

Pointing fingers at other sections makes you look like a massive b****/a******/c***/whateverthehellyouare.


One time when I was 9.... oh wait, I already told this one.
 

You can't use that as a concrete argument for what another section does wrong.


I'm saying that, if the mods view incomplete stories as worthy of locking and incomplete cards in CC as worth of locking, why doesn't the TCG mod view incomplete cards with incomplete effects as worthy of locking?

 

In my opinion, you're looking at this from the wrong angle. Speculation is mainly a good thing


And I say speculation is mainly a bad thing. The difference being that I actually backed up my opinion.

Your actual argument is "speculation is fun", and I'm not that evil that I dislike fun, but having fun and having a discussion aren't the same thing. 10 people all posting what they think an effect is, or what they want it to be, is not only NOT a discussion but it's of no benefit to anyone. It's just +1 post counting.
 

and the spam only comes from the idiots that make it spammy, which more or less deserve to be banned. It's not a problem of the section as a whole, like you claim.


Why give spammers another outlet to spam then? There's literally no downside to this suggestion except that you, specifically, won't have as much fun as you would have, but fun is subjective, so you actually provided no argument.
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So if a card has an unknown effect, just what the hell would you be discussing? The card art?

 

Yes. The card art, the lore behind the story, what impact it has on the gamestate, and anything in between. It's not always about the effect or skill of a card.

 

Your actual argumet is "speculation is fun"

 

No, my actual argument is that "speculation is fun just as long as it doesn't turn into a spamfest". You're free to talk about whatever you want in the section pertaining to the card. I will say, however, that you are right in that SOME of the threads (mainly the pink hippo thread) are literal spamfests and rep fishes. But there are different speculation threads like the Timaeus thread that provide relevant discussion. From the sound of your post, it feels like you're saying "that's wrong, too". Like I said before, it's not all just about the effect.

 

Why give spammers another outlet to spam then? There's literally no downside to this suggestion except that you, specifically, won't have as much fun as you would have

 

There's fun allowed on this site?

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- If there's little-to-no effect on the card, all we get is really awful, no-discussion spam


- Assessment of the current state of the card
- Assessment of the current state of the card in today's metagame
- Decks the card is currently playable in.
- Ways the current card can be played optimally.

These are easy ways to make up a post to include good quality information that can easily spur on discussion. On top of that, speculation can easily occur as to what the rest of the card does due to other information given about the card in other such ways (such as whether it's a part of an archetype, potential drawbacks that would make sense, etc.) I personally find a lot to discuss in such simple effects and the spam that you would mention is moreso just found throughout TCG as a whole, not just in unconfirmed effect topics.

- If there's an effect but it's wrong, we all get sidetracked by some useless effect that does not exist.


This isn't true, as we can make a comparison between the last effect posted and the new effect to come to a conclusion as to whether the new translation is better or worse. This opens up more to discussion and besides, there's always the new effect to discuss anyway. Think of it more as a "what could have been" scenario, like on the Lightpulsar Dragon translation that couldn't miss timing.

If there's a topic about a card already and the effect was wrong, no one's gonna want to necrobump it to correct it and have an actual discussion on it, and remaking topics we juuust talked about has a bad stigma on TCG.


From what I can tell, we're perfectly fine with necrobumping topics to post updated information. This has quite a few times in recent history as well.

The only 'benefit' to allow cards with unconfirmed effects are the once-in-a-while times when the effects are correct, but all that does is make a discussion topic come out a little bit earlier than it would have without the rule. It's not a major loss.


Reference Point 1.

I don't know if this changed your mind at all, but your mindset on this is completely different from ours. Your problems with it moreso just come from TCG than unconfirmed effects, however.
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Yes. The card art, the lore behind the story, what impact it has on the gamestate, and anything in between. It's not always about the effect or skill of a card.

 

 

 

 

No, my actual argument is that "speculation is fun just as long as it doesn't turn into a spamfest". You're free to talk about whatever you want in the section pertaining to the card. I will say, however, that you are right in that SOME of the threads (mainly the pink hippo thread) are literal spamfests and rep fishes. But there are different speculation threads like the Timaeus thread that provide relevant discussion. From the sound of your post, it feels like you're saying "that's wrong, too". Like I said before, it's not all just about the effect.

 

 

 

 

There's fun allowed on this site?

 

How can you know what impact a card will have on the metagame without knowing the effect?  The only time that is possible is with normal monsters. I'm not saying we can't discuss it's impact on the metagame before the effect is confirmed, I'm just saying your argument sucks.

 

Personally I think spamfests and rep fishes make YCM more fun than threads with people who can barely play the game pretending to understand things, but that isn't for me to say.

 

Here is what I will say.  When cards have unconfirmed effects, there is still an effect in the OP to discuss, and it's one that potentially will have an impact on the game.  The value of discussing unconfirmed effects is the same as discussing anime effects.  When discussing anime effects what is there to talk about? Art, effect.  Well these unconfirmed cards also have art and an effect.  How do we discuss the effect?  We look at its balance within the current metagame.  We can do the exact same thing with unconfirmed effects.  The only difference is that there is a chance the unconfirmed effect is actually the real effect.

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I don't wanna make long ass posts so let's just keep this short.


Without a proper effect you can't possibly make an informed discussion. If you talk about how good this card could be in Synchros and the last sentence is "this card can't be used for a Synchro Summon" then you just wasted everyone's time. Sure, we can than disucss the actual effect... but we could have done that anyway if we would have just not allowed posting without a confirmed effect.

If your conversation then turns to "oh this card would have been so broken if it could be used for Synchros" then I'll say: "yeah, and it could be so broken if it let you draw 8 cards on the summon and let you search for up to 5 'Forbidden One' monsters". I mean, if we're all making up shit that isn't gonna happen we might as well go all in.

As far as anime cards, I believe the thinking was most of the cards would probably be released without any major change to their effect.

tl;dr - If you don't know the card's effect, just wait the month or so to get the info. The problem is everyone wants to be the first to post the card.


And yes, I know Unconfirmed Effect Topics aren't the cancer that's killing YCM, but this isn't a race to the bottom.

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Oh right, I was going to comment on this topic before, but forgot about it.

 

Honestly, it varies from topic-to-topic. Topics where there really isn't any information other than the name (No.62 before PRIO's full spoiler comes to mind), or too little information to warrant any discussion at all beyond the blatantly obvious, then it has no merits for discussion and it gets locked.

 

But many times, there's enough info, with maybe a line or two unconfirmed, that WOULD make discussion worthwhile, and when the rest of the info comes to light, usually even MORE discussion is generated based on the pre-conceived expectations changing. Sure, waiting a day or so longer for the absolutely full effect is probably better, but it doesn't insta-kill the merits of the topic.

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There is an acceptable amount that I personally think should be allowed.

Cards like the hippo, that are exactly what you describe Pika, deserve to be locked and not allowed. I understand the need for that.

Though cards that have their effects mostly defined and whose stats are mostly clear, I think those are fair to have around. They have more chances of affecting the actual game in the near future than anime cards do and TCG allows those.

 

The problem here is probably the unofficial line of when a card lacks too much info and when a card is mostly viable for discussion or speculation that's not all over the place. That line can't exactly be traced on the rules due to all the different aspects that can make a card useful. I've seen cards whose effects suck badly but people discuss out of their stats and what Xyzs they can make with which combos and so and so. This mostly points towards a case by case scenario at discretion of the mod in turn.

 

Besides, ultimately the reason for the forum is to come have some fun without bothering others' fun as much as possible here, and speculating once in a while is fun. It's not like it happens enough to overshadow the actual discussions about cards already confirmed or already in the cardpool.

Of course, I agree that rules are important, but there's gotta be a different balance between discipline, law, efficiency, and fun.

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