[Discussion] Between TCG/OCG Format and "DN Format"

[Maeriberii Haan]

Been seeing this topic popping way too often lately everywhere, so I guess I'll go ahead and make a thread about this to reduce out of topic-ness in other threads.

 

As we all know, simulators allows us to have "imaginary" formats that consists of OCG card pool, yet the banlist is TCG. This is the most used format online, I believe, but it's still an imaginary format at best.

 

This thread is for the discussion about that so-called "DN Format", the important differences between it and the actual, real-life formats, how reliable are results conducted in those formats in predicting things in both OCG/TCG (Techs, viability of deck builds and choices, sideboarding, etc), how do you feel about it, and other things.

 

Note that eventhough the title mentioned TCG/OCG, the main topic is about the imaginary format in simulators.

 

You can also talk about the format itself here if you want to, and it would be interesting to see a more competitively minded approach to the imaginary format.

 

Let's keep the discussion civil, friendly, and reasonable.

 

I'll lock this thread immediately if someone starts flinging shit around, and warns will be given whenever necessary.

 

So yeah, discuss.

[Kazooie]

My opinion? It's the only one I'll ever play, since the chances of me going to an event are super, super low.

 

That said, if you do plan on going to some kinda of Locals, Regionals, whatever, you have to take what you're testing with a grain of salt, on both sides. It's an entirely different format than the other two, with massive differences, though I guess it does tend to lend itself more to the TCG side just because of the banlist thing.

 

I don't have a problem with it personally, but hey, like I said, it's the only format I'll play since I don't go to events.

 

That said, if you're basing your event success off the imaginary format, you miiiiiiight wanna rethink that mindset.

[Slinky]

The main problem, isn't the card pool. But the actual banlist. the TCG/OCG format allows us to use shit at higher numbers than the OCG, such as Nebra Disk (which is Semi'd in the OCG) and Soverign (which is limited). and vice-versa (Trish @1 in OCG, but cant use it at all in TCG/OCG)

 

With each new TCG banlist, the list is getting more and more diverse from the OCG.

 

DN is the only place that DOESN'T have a pure OCG section. Devpro and ygopro do, which tends to emphasize the TCG/OCG format (for DN at least). People want to try out the new shit before it gets to the TCG, so they have an idea of how to build it. The TCG/OCG gives more accurate numbers as to what you'll run when they do actually get released in the TCG, and its solely because of the banlist.

[~British Soul~]

I will admit, I do test with OCG cards under the TCG banlist, but ofc the main problem is that like the Flying Dutchman said, is that DN doesn't have a proper OCG format, meaning we can have like 3 Nebras outside of DN's unlimited section.

It was so much easier when the banlist was the same for TCG/OCG though.

 

When it comes to testing for locals or an event like regionals or a YCS (though I missed out on my local regionals and last month's YCS due to IRL stuffs), I do so with my friends. It doesn't stop us from having discussions regarding stuff that isn't released yet and how that would change deck builds.

I don't have a problem with it as long as I do like to test with cards before they hit TCG don't get me wrong as it gives me an idea of how I would run the deck when it does hit TCG, but I'd have to change the deck with the recent banlist revisions in TCG.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's a shit format that is identical to a circle jerk festival. There are two major factors of how the game works. Set Releases and the Banlist. "DNCG" ignores one and tells TCG players to abuse fake decks. If you want to make a fake format and play be my guest but don't try to tell me it's "real" or that that abomination is anywhere close to TCG or OCG. DN is lazy and bias so they will never put up a OCG list and they expect you to eat the horseshit know as DNCG as a "testing method"

DNCG in effect is for players who have a secret fetish for powercreep and want to enjoy that in TCG but are too pussy to play in a list that has proper answers to said creep. Basically it's like taking a 7th grade bully and putting him with Kindergadners so he can feel better about himself

[Just Crouton]

There's a DN format?

 

That just sounds retarded.

 

What's the banlist like? Do they just hit stuff people whine about, or do they actually think about it?

[goddamnit names are a pain]

There's a DN format?

 

That just sounds retarded.

 

What's the banlist like? Do they just hit stuff people whine about, or do they actually think about it?

That's exactly what they make it sound like, but it is instead literally TCG's list and cards with OCG's released cards.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I'll make a nice long post when I get home about this.

[Aerion Brightflame]

I mean, I'm glad DNCG exists simply because it lets you test how a deck will be in theory once it hits the TCG. Because that's what the format is, it's the best indication of how the TCG will be at a certain time, in absence of information that's impossible to gather till either a list comes out or a set's exclusives are announced. 

 

It's not perfect at that by any means, because you get the OCG exclusives messing with this, which based off of past/current trends are impactful parts of the format.  

 

You can't draw performance results from it by any means as truly reliable evidence, but it can give a decent indication of what decks are likely to be able to compete at the time the stuff becomes TCG legal. 

 

It's just a nice assest given that you'll probably do better with more preparation for a set being released than just picking the stuff up on the day it's released and going from there. 

[Darj]

Personally I avoid building those kind of decks except when testing 1 or 2 OCG cards in an otherwise TCG deck. But I don't have anything against it.

As others already pointed out, these pseudo-formats are good for getting an idea of how OCG cards/archetypes would work and would be played in TCG before they are released, or vice-versa if OCG players are testing TCG exclusives, but naturally you shouldn't take them too seriously because, well, it is not an official format.

 

As for taking these formats seriously (e.g. discussing them from a competitive standpoint, organizing tournaments under DN format), in my opinion it would be interesting since it is essentially an entirely different metagame, and I'm curious to learn which would be (or are) the dominant decks, how awesome or degenerate things can turn out, etc. I mean, it is not that different to those alternate Pokemon metagames in Smogon (STABmons, Hackmons, CAP and whatnot) which are appealing to some people. Personally I wouldn't mind joining a tournament with DN format rules.

[CLG Klavier]

This kind of format shows nothing, HOWEVER, let's say Nekroz here. They come out mid-February. Banlist is in January. So there will be no more different banlists before Nekroz, so from the on, we can test them as if they were TCG. Then it makes sense, but if there is a banlist announcement BEFORE the set comes out, then testing means little since a vital part of the deck might get hit.

[Ultravires]

The problem with TCG/OCG using the TCG list is that it isn't just what's going to come out in the TCG next set. It's everything in the OCG, making it impossible to test unless you're testing against someone else who you know is only testing what we will in fact be getting, which makes the entire thing pointless.

If you're not playing exclusively TCG or exclusively OCG you're not even playing YGO. 

[goodfusion]

I don't really have a problem with it.

[Maeriberii Haan]

It's funny how this product of recent Konami decision to further separate TCG and OCG changed the value of online testing and scouting things from OCG metagame by a lot.

 

Only personal use I found in this "format" is to familiarize myself with card interaction and potential combos and playstyles preemptively. Deckbuilding, how a format would look like, value of cards, all is not reflected correctly enough here to be the actual basis on things, aside from some really generalized things like skeletons, but even that might be different between online, OCG, and TCG so yeah.

[Ultravires]

It's funny how this product of recent Konami decision to further separate TCG and OCG changed the value of online testing and scouting things from OCG metagame by a lot.

Only personal use I found in this "format" is to familiarize myself with card interaction and potential combos and playstyles preemptively. Deckbuilding, how a format would look like, value of cards, all is not reflected correctly enough here to be the actual basis on things, aside from some really generalized things like skeletons, but even that might be different between online, OCG, and TCG so yeah.

This isn't quite entirely accurate. I've correctly predicted every TCG meta trend for the last two years, down to individual teched engines, based primarily on OCG performance in addition to personal insight and what I know of OCG vs. TCG player psychology.

The difference is that I'm one of very few people who has played competitively in each game and has had the opportunity to pick the brains of the best players in both.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Yeah, it's not entirely accurate, but as you've said, you'll need to know the different mindset of OCG and TCG players, and to be really familiar with both metagame at once to be able to still predict these trends.

 

(by the way, I wonder about how big the difference between TCG and OCG's Shaddoll in their respective DUEA formats, since I am getting the impression that the difference was really radical)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yeah, it's not entirely accurate, but as you've said, you'll need to know the different mindset of OCG and TCG players, and to be really familiar with both metagame at once to be able to still predict these trends.

 

(by the way, I wonder about how big the difference between TCG and OCG's Shaddoll in their respective DUEA formats, since I am getting the impression that the difference was really radical)

That fact that Star Seraphs were a thing? And that Heroes would have massacred any TCG build....and the absence of BA? Not to mention Trish is worth running, Goyo maybe not. Small things that add up

[werewolfjedi]

This isn't quite entirely accurate. I've correctly predicted every TCG meta trend for the last two years, down to individual teched engines, based primarily on OCG performance in addition to personal insight and what I know of OCG vs. TCG player psychology.

The difference is that I'm one of very few people who has played competitively in each game and has had the opportunity to pick the brains of the best players in both.

 

perhaps it would be prudent to discuss that now then, the difference in the OCG style and the TCG style, as we can call them, and how they effect the game and deck design.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's fake. I can make a format where three PoG is legal and "test" it all I want cause it's fun and I can get hard off "the plays" the fact remains it's not relevent not real. But feel free to give yourselves boners playing your pussy format for TCG players who can't deal with the OCG list

[Althemia]

It's fake. I can make a format where three PoG is legal and "test" it all I want cause it's fun and I can get hard off "the plays" the fact remains it's not relevent not real. But feel free to give yourselves boners playing your pussy format for TCG players who can't deal with the OCG list

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being able to play with the TCG list with OCG products. It allows the user to get a feel for what they should be expecting when the card(s) come over to the TCG side, as the OCG list is a little bit too different in some places from the TCG list. For example, Heavy being gone is actually a huge thing for the TCG and determines the way some decks end up shaping up.

Also, can you just drop the entire hating on it thing? You are entitled to an opinion, but you're also getting old already.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being able to play with the TCG list with OCG products. It allows the user to get a feel for what they should be expecting when the card(s) come over to the TCG side, as the OCG list is a little bit too different in some places from the TCG list. For example, Heavy being gone is actually a huge thing for the TCG and determines the way some decks end up shaping up.Also, can you just drop the entire hating on it thing? You are entitled to an opinion, but you're also getting old already.

Except it doesn't...you don't know when the exclusives will get here or what the Banlist will do. It's not representative of anything except TCG player who get first person shooters of using Noden in a format that doesn't have any traps. Example: Necloth. Stratos could very easily get ROTA limited but that's not stopping all you people from stuffing your asses with 3 of them in your fake ass decks. The worse part is sites like DN allows a fake format but have the balls to ignore a real format in OCG

[CLG Klavier]

You're right. I have no idea when Dark Law, Necloths, Infernoids will be in TCG

...oh.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You're right. I have no idea when Dark Law, Necloths, Infernoids

You have no idea what the banlist will do before they arrive, September 2013 has shown that KoA is capable of Nuking the card pool. You cannot imagine how much I want the BA in OCG but I have the self control of waiting instead of playing a deck that will not be built to face the metagame

[CLG Klavier]

ITT: I can't change my deck then
ITT: They will ban members of archetype that's not out yet
ITT: There are 10 banlists before now and release of those

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

ITT: I can't change my deck then
ITT: They will ban members of archetype that's not out yet
ITT: There are 10 banlists before now and release of those

Nobody saw Heavy's ban did they? They could Ban ROTA for Stratos for all ya know. What's wrong with putting 3 CED in my deck and saying I'll remove them if he doesn't get unbanned?

[CLG Klavier]

Because no format currently allows you to do that. Stop grasping at straws.