Ideal banlist Discussion

[Darj]

(Because UE's thread was locked before I could reply.)

 

I believe most of us here know how both OCG and TCG make questionable banlist changes for pushing the new or profitable cards, or suddenly bring "power cards" back such as Raigeki, Goyo, and BLS back then.

 

Well, to put it simply, the goal of this thread is to build our own YCM banlist with more appropriate hits, including on cards that have yet to be released as emergency or preemptive hits, for the sake of a more balanced game.  It would we cool if we YCM members could come with our own custom banlist to use in our own YCM tournaments.

 

Hitting problem cards on the spot would be an important element of this banlist/format, as we wouldn't need to wait for a couple months for OCG/TCG make the hits AND hope they make the right hits (only to be disappointed most of the times). For instance, we could hit Necloths and Qlips before TCG or OCG do so, and whatever dangerous cards they release in Crossover Souls.

 

I was thinking that we could take the TCG banlist as the foundation, so to speak, and work from there (also sticking with the TCG banlist should be more practical for playing in DN and other online gaming sites/programs). Then, we could forbid some of the power cards that are currently Limited, such as Soul Charge, Raigeki Goyo and BLS, as well as Limit ROTA and its variants. After that, we could hit the current top tiers to drop the power cap of the game; Limit Scout to hurt Qlips, and perhaps TGU to hurt BAs.

 

Thoughts?

 

EDIT:

[spoiler=Current banlist]

January TCG Banlist

+

Forbidden:

Raigeki

Snatch Steal

Soul Charge

 

Skill Drain

Vanity's Emptiness

 

Herald of the Arc Light

 

 

Limited:

Cir, Malebranche of the Burning Abyss

Graff, Malebranche of the Burning Abyss

Honest

Qliphort Scout

Scarm, Malebranche of the Burning Abyss

 

Dark Hole

Instant Fusion

Preparation of Rites

Shaddoll Fusion

Summoner's Art

 

Sinister Shadow Games

 

Goyo Guardian

 

 

Semi-Limited:

Reinforcements of the Army

[/spoiler]

[Toffee.]

Thing is.... While OCG is implied to have more flexability, the banlist becomes more outlandish in the sense that typically things are far more broken because of the stuff they can utalize(Trish, for example).
TCG tends to be more strick, but is also more narrow-minded in the sense they INSIST you run Deck X or Y, but not Z.

So each have there pros and cons, so it's up to debate, really.

[Slinky]

the problem isn't the banlist.

its the power creep.

 

Try and deny it.

[Darj]

Thing is.... While OCG is implied to have more flexability, the banlist becomes more outlandish in the sense that typically things are far more broken because of the stuff they can utalize(Trish, for example).
TCG tends to be more strick, but is also more narrow-minded in the sense they INSIST you run Deck X or Y, but not Z.

So each have there pros and cons, so it's up to debate, really.

 

I agree. OCG has other crazy stuff available and in a way encourages deck diversity, but I believe TCG is healthier as it has power cards such as Heavy and the aforementioned Trishula banned, and thus, in theory it should be easier to balance it than OCG.

Actually, I think it doesn't really matter. Whether we begin with TCG or OCG, in the end the result should the most fair or balanced banlist/format as possible. I mean, if we started from OCG, we most likely will forbid Shock Master, Trishula, Heavy, etc. anyways.

 

 

the problem isn't the banlist.

its the power creep.

 

Try and deny it.

 

I can't disagree. The power creep is a constant threat and it cannot be contained by a banlist. But I for one would like to play under a format/banlist that holds it back the longest as possible until it ultimately overwhelms it.

[Sleepy]

I see what you are trying to do.

The plan that usually fails here is to try to go into balancing out all decks of all times, pretty much trying to even it all out with a humongous list, and pretty much by definition having to hold down each deck harder the newer it is (Example, good luck with Qliphs vs Toons).

But this thread is just suggesting we do not over-complicate things, and acknowledge that power-creep will keep existing as long as we add the new stuff that Konami keeps making, but it'll be attempted to balance it preemptively relative to its TCG time.

 

An issue with the banlist in terms of balance is often that we get to "fix" the meta right before a new booster each time IRL. If the game can "fix" the top decks without having the "new expansions" factor immediately replace the tops, it'd be something Konami doesn't do. The intended power level seems to then be constantly changing in tune with new releases, but trying to fix problems as soon as spotted so that top decks aren't really the "to go" options over the recently fixed ones.

 

Finally, it'd be nice to see people discussing list positions and whatnot for cards in TCG regardless of if new or old, and have all arguments taken into consideration and go past just theory and personal views, but applied into this list. Of course, you'd have to arbitrarily start off with a purposely non-perfect list and a few tournaments running it. Otherwise you'll be getting people writing full paragraphs about "what if"s from a custom format that hasn't been tested enough at the time of discussions.

 

Or at least that's what I think it is going for.

[VampireofDarkness]

Have we had any tournaments here at all? Cause I'd like to know if so. Anyway, that seems like a decent idea actually, as I have always had theory and desires for the list. There are a lot of things that have to be keep in mind with this list, however, and I will say this to everybody (Feel free to quote me):

1. Unless it's still a scumbag use, Decks that can rely on a certain card to keep their relevancy that are being used by upper tier Decks should not be hit to the point of unreliability (I.E. Some Decks such as Chaos Agents and Fluffals using Tour Guide to setup their own plays).

2. The real problems of a Deck need to be hit, not just destroying a Deck because it's a high tier. This sounds like a given, but after what I've seen, I feel it needs to be said

3. There will always be a superior Deck, and this needs to be assumed at all times. This should just be about making Decks less scumbag and more about enjoying oneself

I'll do my best to contribute, and maybe I can help out with ideas on some of the initial hits. There actually needs to be less done than one would realize, but there of course is still a bit to be done.

[Darj]

@Sleepy: Yes, it's something like that.

 

 

To clear this up, what I suggest here is not to attempt to make all decks equals. As Klavier pointed out in UE's thread, "perfect balance" is impossible: there are decks that will be better than others, and, on the other hand, decks that simply cannot do much or anything at all (e.g. the aforementioned Toons, LV monsters).

 

Instead, the idea is to hit the decks and cards that are problematic and drop the overall power level in the game; basically keep the power creep in check, at least temporarily. In other words, the goal is to hit tier1s so the tier1.5~2, or even tier3, become the top tiers. Yes, there will be tons of decks that will remain useless or rogue, but the way I see it, at least things would be slightly more balanced. I mean, instead of Qlips, Shaddolls or BAs (and soon Necloths) being the decks to beat, perhaps Fire Fists would take the lead (like they did a couple of years ago), which more or less are easier to handle than the former.

 

However, it just dawned upon me that this would be an annoying task, because certain decks will be difficult to hit without crippling them entirely. For instance, Qlips should be more or less easy to hit (starting by Limiting/banning Scout), but I currently have no idea on how to hit Shaddolls, Necloths and BAs (except for TGU) to take them down to the level of, let's say, Mermails or Fire Fists.

 

Right now, my first ideas are:

- Limit ROTAs and their variants, even if they are currently underused (including Fossil Dig). I think most of us here agree that their design is not the best.

- Ban power cards that OCG/TCG currently allows (BLS, Soul Charge, Raigeki, Glow-Up , etc.).

- Limit "1-card ED monsters" (e.g. Wolfbark, Altair, Sombre, etc.). At some point Wolfbark was Limited, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to go back to those days.

- Hit the top tiers so they more or less become Tier 2 or lower (if taken to TCG/OCG format).

 

As for tournaments, I would like to get a draft banlist first, and then organize tournaments using that banlist to test things out.

[Darj]

Actually, Pollux, Castor and other "double summoners" would be fine because they drop the other monster from the hand, not the grave, and thus are not "1-card ED monsters" like Sombre, Wolfbark, etc. Also Anjelly is more of a ROTA; not sure if it would need to be hit as well because it is a bit slower than the searcher Spells.

 

You do have a point on Spirit Beasts, though: without Wen and Lera the deck would be severely crippled. However, I have no experience with Spirit Beast, but wouldn't in theory they be a bit too strong in this hypothetical format if untouched? I suspect they would do just fine with Wen and Lera Limited, and would resort to other tactics to stay in the game, such as controlling with their Traps instead of spamming Contact Fusions.

[Darj]

Hootcake looks like a better target to hit, because it more less behaves as a "1-card ED monster" by summoning a monster virtually for free.

[Darj]

Thanks for the analysis.

I think "Combination" would be one of the reasons, if not the main reason, to play the archetype in the first place in this watered-down format; having their own searchable pseudo-Raigeki is a great perk. So personally I would pick choice #3 and lImit Lera, Wen and Ambush. I would rather not hit Quill Pen, because by itself is arguably a fair 1-for-1 remover, and the recyling can allow WIND decks such as Gusto and this one to stay in the game a little longer.

 

Anyways, testing undermeta decks is fine and all, but I would prefer if we gave priority to balancing (if possible) the top tiers first, specifically Qlips, BAs, Shaddolls and Necloths.

- Against Qlips, the only hit I can think of is the obvious Scout, perhaps going as far as to ban it because even with a single copy, it is a +1 for each turn it stays on the field.

- Against BAs, TGU because it is a 1-card ED but beyond that I don't know what could be hit. I would say the floaters are not the biggest threat, but Virgil and their Karma Cuts/PWWB.

- Against Shaddolls, I was thinking in banning Shaddoll Fusion: Resolving 1 by using materials from the Deck nets a +2, and Shaddolls already have 2 additonal archetype Fusion Spells so I think they will be just fine without their main Fusion Spell. Limiting Shadow Games could be an additional hit so slow them down by a bit. Perhaps Limit Mathman as well because it is somewhat of a problem card by itself.

- Against Necloths, I have no idea. I have not tested them so I cannot identify which would be the best cards to hit. To drop an idea, perhaps Limit, if not outright banning, their Trishula?

[Krein]

I wouldn't say we should outright ban Shaddoll Fusion, but limiting it might be a good idea. Being able to fusion summon from the deck is powerful but it can only do that if the opponent controls an extra deck monster. If the card is limited, there are still three other ways to get it back by using Shaddoll Hound, Shaddoll Core, and sending a fusion to the graveyard.

 

As for Necloth, maybe ban or limit Necloth Cycle as well? The card lets you ritual summon a ritual monster from your hand and graveyard, the graveyard part being the most useful and important part of the card. With this card it won't really count as a loss for you when you discard a Necloth Brionac, Trishula, or any other ritual monster for their hand effects, and once Cycle summons them you'll get their field effects too.

[Slinky]

Qlips: Limit Scout, Limit Saqlifice  (Scout doesn't deserve a ban, because without it, the deck is nothing more than trash, but then Infernity Archfiend logic also starts applying here, so.... iunno?)

 

BA: Limit TG, Limit the one that SS's from the deck (..graff?)

 

Shaddolls: Limit/Ban Shaddoll Fusion, Limit Winda, Limit Shadow Games

 

Necloth: Limit Rites, Limit Trish

I wouldn't say we should outright ban Shaddoll Fusion, but limiting it might be a good idea. Being able to fusion summon from the deck is powerful but it can only do that if the opponent controls an extra deck monster. If the card is limited, there are still three other ways to get it back by using Shaddoll Hound, Shaddoll Core, and sending a fusion to the graveyard.

 

As for Necloth, maybe ban or limit Necloth Cycle as well? The card lets you ritual summon a ritual monster from your hand and graveyard, the graveyard part being the most useful and important part of the card. With this card it won't really count as a loss for you when you discard a Necloth Brionac, Trishula, or any other ritual monster for their hand effects, and once Cycle summons them you'll get their field effects too.

 

Thats pointless for Cycle, as it is only a 0-1 of. It isn't a necessity of the deck, so hitting it wouldn't do anything to the deck.

[Darj]

Rites (and Summoner Arts by the way) are also ROTA variants, so by default (so to speak), they will be Limited.

 

Not sure if Assembler deserves the hit because it needs Tributed Qliphorts to get the card draws, and you can only Tribute Summon 1 per turn (or 2 with the Field Spell active, but then it balances things out: activating the field is technically a -1 because it doesn't net any inmediate advantage), also with Scout gone, they cannot guarantee having enough Qlips at hand to continuously Tribute Summon. In a way, it is more of a "Constellar Star Chart" which is barely used and considered a winmore/overkill card for its reliance on Special Summoning Constellars.

With Scout gone, the bigger Qlips should in theory become less threatening because it will be harder to set up the Pendulums on the field and Extra Deck and provide the Tribute materials.

 

Hitting Saqlifice looks like a good idea, but I don't want to render Qlips entirely useless; Saqlifice would be one of the few cards that in theory would keep Qlips playable after the lost of Scout. Then again, it is an archetype ROTA, but I was thinking that perhaps we could spare these kind of archetype ROTAs to avoid hurting decks that don't deserve it, namely Nordics (Gleipnir), Glads (Proving Grounds) and perhaps Koa'kis (Diamond Core).

 

Hitting Reqliphort may be wise, because being able to main basically x6 Skill Drains with no problems could be too overwhelming.

 

Not really convinced of Limiting Midrash. Yes, by itself she is quite strong, but also as the DARK El-Shaddoll she is who will enable the archetype to push forward by allowing you to use 2 Shaddolls as Fusion Materials. Otherwise the deck would need to rely on more non-DARK monsters for the Fusions, making it somewhat inconsistent (at least in theory). I would rather hit Nephilim first, who is arguably more threatening than Midrash.

[VampireofDarkness]

SBs aren't meta? :o

That aside...

 

"- Against Qlips, the only hit I can think of is the obvious Scout, perhaps going as far as to ban it because even with a single copy, it is a +1 for each turn it stays on the field."

Qliphort Assembler would probably deem a hit as well, seeing as it's a +1 at best and an even stronger Pot of Greed at worst.  If players can't use Scout, they'll undoubtedly run three of this instead.  Limiting or banning it should suffice to at least knock out the pendulum threats.  Then there are five more threats as well; Access, Disk, Shell, Kernel, and of course, Towers.  Granted, all Qliphorts are pretty threatening, but these five stand out above the rest.  They've still got their equip spell to search with, as well as Reqliphort to shut down enemy decks.  These guys are gonna be a real pain to try and balance out, aren't they? =.=

 

"- Against BAs, TGU because it is a 1-card ED but beyond that I don't know what could be hit. I would say the floaters are not the biggest threat, but Virgil and their Karma Cuts/PWWB. Perhaps Limit Mathman as well because it is somewhat of a problem card by itself."

Excluding Malacoda, there are six Malebranches.  We could also just make them all semi and see how that works; BA players can still have all their Malebranches, but even at max it's only 12 monsters within the archetype before Malacoda.  I'm all for hitting TGU and Mathman, and even Karma Cut/PWWB on their own seem pretty threatening.  Especially seeing how the former bypasses destruction immunities and can seriously wreck certain decks.

 

"- Against Shaddolls, I was thinking in banning Shaddoll Fusion: Resolving 1 by using materials from the Deck nets a +2, and Shaddolls already have 2 additonal archetype Fusion Spells so I think they will be just fine without their main Fusion Spell. Limiting Shadow Games could be an additional hit so slow them down by a bit."

Not to mention it's a +2 that gives you a powerful monster.  As Krein has said, limiting it means it can be recycled...which is why the only reason to put this thing down is indeed to ban it.  The fusion monsters may also deem a hit; particularly Winda (sorry Winda T^T) and Construct, seeing as to this day, those two are still the major problem monsters in Shaddolls.  As it so happens, Krein has a Shaddoll deck; I could rope him into helping test them out (seeing as he was also one of my test subjects for SBs) as well as Necloths.

 

"- Against Necloths, I have no idea. I have not tested them so I cannot identify which would be the best cards to hit. To drop an idea, perhaps Limit, if not outright banning, their Trishula?"

I built a Nekroz deck recently that works surprisingly well (whenever it doesn't brick, that is); I'll test these guys out later on.  As for Trishula, it definitely needs a ban unless you're willing to let the old Ice Barrier version roam free as well; this Trishula is easier to summon and acts as a hand trap that negates targeting effects.  Schritt should also be hit; this guy alongside Ascending Soul is all kinds of fun crazy, since he's a full-tribute that searches upon being tributed for a Ritual Summon.

 

 

 

Even with Archfiend at one, I'm still getting Infernity to work, so...

 

 

 

- Qlis: Assembler doesn't need a hit. It's not really that good. Semi Limiting Shell, Limiting Scout, Access, Kernal, and Towers while banning Disk and Alias would probably be the best way to go about that.

 

- BAs: TGU to 2, Limiting Dante, and Banning Fire Lake. Maybe Limiting Zenmaines as just a sure way to make sure they don't have a cheap ass Rank 3 they can be stupid about. I mean c'mon, a Deck that can get out a bunch of Rank 3s. How broken could that be when double Dante isn't involved?

 

- Shaddolls: Limit Shaddoll and El Shaddoll Fusion. Winda and Construct Limit

 

- Nekroz: Ban Trish, Limit Shrit. Possibly ban Nyaria for the searching that it promotes

 

As for Infernities, they currently are a glass cannon, and I don't think any Deck should ever have to be as delicate as that Deck has become

[CLG Klavier]

Why are we discussing hitting stuff like RSB and we outright wanna kill decks?

A Scout limit makes Qliphorts less obnoxious, but still makes them viable. All you need to hit for now.
Burning Abyss...hit TGU most probably. Limit I think.
If you really wanna hit Shaddolls, limit Shaddoll Fusion.

No need to kill decks with 5-6 bans.

[Darj]

Why are we discussing hitting stuff like RSB and we outright wanna kill decks?

A Scout limit makes Qliphorts less obnoxious, but still makes them viable. All you need to hit for now.
Burning Abyss...hit TGU most probably. Limit I think.
If you really wanna hit Shaddolls, limit Shaddoll Fusion.

No need to kill decks with 5-6 bans.

 

I agree with the latter. I'm not comfortable with dropping multiple hits on a single archetype/deck; personally, I would rather ban the problem cards first.

A problem I see in just Limiting Shaddoll Fusion, Scout, etc. is that their decks can recover them relatively easily, and thus changing the # of copies from 3 to 1 is more or less pointless. Shaddolls have Core and the Fusions, and Qlips have Qlimate Change, Pot of Wealth, and I don't know what else.

 

By the way, I was thinking it may be too soon to hit the 1-card EDs because decks such as tellarknights would be heavily weakened and other undermeta decks would be affected unnecessarily, while the top tiers may remain strong even after losing their key cards. I would like us to test with those cards available first, and then evaluate if we can hit them or not to further drop the power level of the game.

 

Other hit suspects I had in mind:

- Moralltach: I'm leaning towards banning this one. This would kill the Sanctum engine and turn it into more of a source for Level5 fodder. Yes, Pure Artifacts would be hurt, but they still have their S/T removal tricks to keep things going. Besides, if an archetype relies on Moralltach to be good, then I would say that doesn't speak well of its design.

 

- Shaddoll Beast: Basically it is the strongest main-Deck Shaddoll. This card's flip effect is potentially a Pot of Greed, and that may be a bit too good for a butchered metagame; not to mention the speed it adds to the deck when it is milled, used as Fusion Material, etc. Not sure on how to hit this one, or if other Shaddolls cards should be hit before this, though.

 

P.D. I don't get what you mean with RSB.

[CLG Klavier]

RSB = Ritual Spirit Beasts.

Key is consistency and ability to deal with the problem card. With only 1 Shaddoll Fusion., they need to be more careful. Suddenly a DD Crow gets rid of it, and no more Main Deck fusing for you.

And how about we ban by IMPACT, which is the only relevant reason to ban? Not "omg bad design".

[Darj]

And how about we ban by IMPACT, which is the only relevant reason to ban? Not "omg bad design".

 

Sure. After all, the main goal here is to hit what TCG/OCG doesn't hit for raising sales or just being silly.

[CLG Klavier]

Banned:
Raigeki
Soul Charge

Limited:
Tour Guide From the Underworld
Qliphort Scout
Shaddoll Fusion

Semi-Limited:
Reinforcement of the Army

Here's a start.

[Toffee.]

I'd love to pitch the idea of a 3-0 list, again, but that sort of discussion tends to be more subjective, despite being easier in the long run.

[Darj]

I would add the following to the list:

 

Banned

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning

Glow-Up Bulb

Goyo Guardian

 

Those 3 are also power cards that I suspect TCG released from the list to experiment, but I think we all here can agree they are not that healthy for the game.

 

Limited:

Artifact Moralltach

The Nekroz Armor of Trishula

 

Summoner's Art

Fire Formation - Tenki

Reinforcement of the Army

Preparation of Rites

 

 

- Even after Limiting Scout, Summoner's Art would still be waiting to be abused by future Normal Pendulums.

- Moralltach, well, I explained it in a previous post. Suggesting to Limit it in order to not be too harsh on the engine but, again, personally I would ban it.

- Tenki supports so many decks (e.g. Bujin, X-Sabers, Constellars, and now Vanilla Pendulums) that I would say it is comparable to ROTA. Plus it becomes into an engine with Bear, which takes it to a level higher than ROTA.

- ROTA to 1 because personally it feels wrong to have it at any more than 1.

- Rites was fine until Necloths happened. Remember, another of the purposes of this banlist is to also hit cards we know will cause problems even before TCG/OCG properly hits them. Think of it as dropping emergency bans.

- Necloth Trishula is basically a main-deck Trishula, do I need to say more? Plus, in theory Necloths should be able to keep up even with their Trishula Limited; perhaps we could go as far as to ban it.

[CLG Klavier]

Banned:

Glow-Up Bulb

Goyo Guardian

Soul Charge

Raigeki

 

Limited:

Qliphort Scout

Tour Guide From the Underworld

Nekroz Armor of Trishula

Shaddoll Fusion

 

Semi-Limited:

Reinforcement of the Army

Summoner's Art

 

No reason to ban Trish. It doesn't compare to the original - it's playable only in ONE deck, as opposed to every single one.

[Blake]

Guys, think about and learn about the decks before trying to hit them.

Nekroz generally play just 2 Shrit and 1-2 Trish, so neither of those guys are really solid ideas.

Nekroz Trish is also not really comparable to Synchro Trish as much as you're trying to make it so, considering its banishing effect is weaker and it requires a dedicated ass deck (so to speak) to drop it well. A deck with no real wiggle room.

Banning Herald of the Arc Light slows them down a ton because Kaleidomirror loses a lot of power and it causes the deck to lose consistency/potent R4ing.

And RotA back to 1.

Spirit Beasts... Guys this deck is just bro infernity but cuter. Seriously. So what 2 cards do you hit in infernity? I'll give you a hint: Archfiend and Launcher. Barrier as well, but they don't have one of those.

This means F-Kannahawk and ambush to 1, which shuts off Rampenta searching for N-Kannahawk unless you give up your best ED card. You could consider limiting Combinstion, but that seems like it would massacre the deck... Not that it doesn't deserve it.

My only misgiving is that F-Kannahawk should honestly be banned due to fucking dodging everything, but that's massacre... Which the deck deserves but eh.

Qliphorts just involves hitting Tool, Summoner's Art, and Saqliphort to 1, with the latter being optional, but an extra means to make tool harder to reach. Access is dumb, but not Rejuve dumb.

Is argue that Re-Qliphort pushes harder in the direction of banning Tool. Searchable Drain is not okay, though it does lose to optional on-summon

Speaking of, OG drain is a pseudo-floodgate and should be limited.

Shaddolls... Limit OG Fusion, Potentially limit SSG, you're golden. Though the deck can become has an OTK happy fusion spell, so let's see their last fusion before calling judgment.

BA... Is a mess. Graff, Cir, and TGU are the biggest problems, but Scarm is one as well. Limit to everything would probably be best, despite how much that actually hits. Fire Lake is absurdly good, too, but that's because these consistency makers are out and about.

[Slinky]

In regards to Cir, that is only a problem because of how fast they spin stuff out of the deck and into the graveyard. Limiting Graff and TGU is more than enough to tame it, since that severely slows down their grave-filling.

 

Otherwise, Cir really only revives Virgil or the means to make him. But Virgil in himself is a ridiculously dumb card as it is, and should be higher on the priority list to hit than Cir.

 

Either way, I really don't care about Cir, less him means people run more Crane Crane.

[Darj]

Guys, think about and learn about the decks before trying to hit them.

Nekroz generally play just 2 Shrit and 1-2 Trish, so neither of those guys are really solid ideas.

Nekroz Trish is also not really comparable to Synchro Trish as much as you're trying to make it so, considering its banishing effect is weaker and it requires a dedicated ass deck (so to speak) to drop it well. A deck with no real wiggle room.

Banning Herald of the Arc Light slows them down a ton because Kaleidomirror loses a lot of power and it causes the deck to lose consistency/potent R4ing.

And RotA back to 1.

Spirit Beasts... Guys this deck is just bro infernity but cuter. Seriously. So what 2 cards do you hit in infernity? I'll give you a hint: Archfiend and Launcher. Barrier as well, but they don't have one of those.

This means F-Kannahawk and ambush to 1, which shuts off Rampenta searching for N-Kannahawk unless you give up your best ED card. You could consider limiting Combinstion, but that seems like it would massacre the deck... Not that it doesn't deserve it.

My only misgiving is that F-Kannahawk should honestly be banned due to f***ing dodging everything, but that's massacre... Which the deck deserves but eh.

Qliphorts just involves hitting Tool, Summoner's Art, and Saqliphort to 1, with the latter being optional, but an extra means to make tool harder to reach. Access is dumb, but not Rejuve dumb.

Is argue that Re-Qliphort pushes harder in the direction of banning Tool. Searchable Drain is not okay, though it does lose to optional on-summon

Speaking of, OG drain is a pseudo-floodgate and should be limited.

Shaddolls... Limit OG Fusion, Potentially limit SSG, you're golden. Though the deck can become has an OTK happy fusion spell, so let's see their last fusion before calling judgment.

BA... Is a mess. Graff, Cir, and TGU are the biggest problems, but Scarm is one as well. Limit to everything would probably be best, despite how much that actually hits. Fire Lake is absurdly good, too, but that's because these consistency makers are out and about.

 

I agree on Limiting Skill Drain rather than hitting Re-Qliphort. I remember once reading here in a TCG thread that it didn't deserve a hit because it promoted skill and whatnot, but the truth is that it is still a floodgate, and an annoying one at that.

 

I also agree with the suggested Shaddoll hits.

 

I don't know about Herald of Arc Light. By itself it looks fine because it can support other decks. Wouldn't hitting Kaleidomirror instead be a better alternative? After all, it's Kaleido which enables Herald in Necloths. Then again, I don't have any experience with Necloths and thus I'm clueless on how to hit them, so I will take you word on this one. The same goes for Ritual/Spirit Beasts: I have not tested them even once.

 

As for BAs, the main issue is that by limiting their 3 best maindeck monsters in addition to TGU would heavily hurt the deck, because they rely on each other to even remain on the field. From what I have seen, normally they can float for days without actually harming the opponent; that is, until they go for Virgil or draw into their Karmas/PWWBs. Personally I would rather hit their offensive capabilities and let them float freely until their cycle degenerates into Cir <---> Dante.

 

I would like to read your thoughts (this goes for everyone) on Mathematician, BLS, Tenki and Moralltach before adding them "officially" in the list.