No Banlist should be in any Tournament

[Ririku]

I have some criticism concerning the way the game is played nowadays with XYZ monsters and Pendulums and all that fun stuff.

I causally play with a few of my friends because we prefer to normally keep it old school with a few new kicks from the current gen. We only go up to 5Ds gen with Synchro summoning, excluding the use of any pendulum and XYZ summoning.

I was just putting up some addition info to make sure people know where I'm coming from. Many people will complain in duels just because they will not get things their way. Unfortunately because of that, ban lists are made to outlaw cards in Tournaments because a few people complained about it.

I guess it goes with my philosophy of everything should be free from arbitrary lines that I get into feels with this over. I personally just wish people wouldn't complain because of using a dark hole, trap hole, monster reborn, pot of greed, etc. And then God Mod the game by using next gen cards because they couldn't make good strategies and decks from the already well equipped cards already there in front of them.

I'll edit this soon, I'm very tired atm and don't know if I'm making sense xD if this is in the wrong section please inform me.

[Maeriberii Haan]

I have some criticism concerning the way the game is played nowadays with XYZ monsters and Pendulums and all that fun stuff.

I causally play with a few of my friends because we prefer to normally keep it old school with a few new kicks from the current gen. We only go up to 5Ds gen with Synchro summoning, excluding the use of any pendulum and XYZ summoning.

I was just putting up some addition info to make sure people know where I'm coming from. Many people will complain in duels just because they will not get things their way. Unfortunately because of that, ban lists are made to outlaw cards in Tournaments because a few people complained about it.

I guess it goes with my philosophy of everything should be free from arbitrary lines that I get into feels with this over. I personally just wish people wouldn't complain because of using a dark hole, trap hole, monster reborn, pot of greed, etc. And then God Mod the game by using next gen cards because they couldn't make good strategies and decks from the already well equipped cards already there in front of them.

I'll edit this soon, I'm very tired atm and don't know if I'm making sense xD if this is in the wrong section please inform me.

 

Alright then, I'll use Exodia Makyura FTK.

 

Also moved to TCG Banlist and Theories. 

 

Btw, prepare your helmet. Things are going to be rough for you.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's a simple issue. Competitive Players care more. Thus they don't want to get "sacked" by top deck reborn

Casual player play for fun, so they just laugh it off when the opponent tops Mirage of Nightmare

If you really have a group of friends who want to play under your list you don't need to follow Kevin or Shushy's lists. That's basically what I do when I wann play with TER or Construct and OCG is too retarded to unban them

That being said. I feel you. The infinity salt for one might perfectly exemplify your case

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

The reason why ban lists exist in tournaments is because certain cards have proven to be VERY unhealthy for the gamestate, and often cause opponents to ragequit.

Look at this way, would you appreciate it someone ran 3 Raigeki, Feather Duster or some other banned card against you; and there was nearly no chance for you to make a comeback.

 

Hopefully you know that Raigeki is currently @1, despite the fact it was banned for quite a while (perhaps since the GX days or something).

 

Stepping into a more modern age, consider the fact that @3, there are some cards that shut the game down.

 

Take Vanity's for example; a floodgate that curbs Special Summons, assuming you don't get any of your cards sent to the Graveyard. Prior to April 2015, people were maining it in triples to screw with the opponent. Then, we have Brio in Nekroz (which is essentially a searcher to pull off more combo pieces and other things).

 

The latter got hit by 1; whereas Vanity's was shot to Limited.

Vanity's is a 5Ds era card though.

 

----

I can see where you're going, but as I mentioned, would you like to constantly have your board wiped out while the opponent can continually plus like hell and OTK you later.

 

Bear in mind that I don't play competitively (due to lack of time and resources [meaning money; college students don't really have a lot of leeway]), so I cannot always say how badly certain cards are abused in order to warrant hits.

 

I can assume that Future Fusion got banned at the time due to it fueling F.G.D or Chimeratech/Overload OTK/FTK spam or something.

 

[I'm talking about the TCG lists, just so you know. I don't play OCG for a variety of reasons, including being outside of its range.]

 

----

[spoiler=TF5 computer fight, but you get it]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9H-c8y8tXM

 

Temple and Exchange got nerfed so they could come off the list, but you get the point.

[/spoiler]

[The Cowardly Dog]

True, with no banlist, we would have loads of fun. Most OTK and FTK would be unlocked, and chaos will ensue. Imagine with every player manage to summon a full house of boss monsters in their first turn. Exodia decks would become the norm, due to being one of the safer ways to archive victory without ever actually have to duel. And what we have already seen right now as abundant usage of metadecks would probably get to the point where everydeck is the same, and soon it wouldn't be deck building that going to help you win the Duel, it would be coin flipping (to decide which player go first) that'd be the winning factor.

I suppose I would agree with your idea, provide you legalize fanmade cards as well (like those we are presenting right here). Then we would probably have what a close resemblance to Yugioh (well, to it's first series, where everything is possible). At least, in that scenario, ppl would have a fighting chance.

[ihop]

If you only casually play with friends, please don't suggest things for the tournament scene because it's totally different and from what I'm reading here you don't understand. With everything at 3 literally every deck will be an FTK deck of some sort, and with 3 pot of greed/3 charity/3 painful choice it will be ridiculusly consistent and will almost always win turn 1. You don't seem to realise that people play a lot of money to travel to major events and there's a lot of pride and material goods at stake. Nobody wants to pay to travel to a tournament where literally every game is decided on dieroll because if I wanted to play something based on a 50/50 I'd just play roulette much closer to home. For the same reason, nobody wants to pay to travel to a tournament only to lose to topdecked painful choice/reborn/change of heart etc, even ignoring the obvious FTKs.

 

If you want to be a casual, so be it, don't go to tournaments and don't use a banlist but this is a shit idea for those of us who actually pay to travel to tournaments to prove our skill and have fun, so please don't make assumptions of what a gaming community that you are not part of wants.

[Neochu-H]

no banlist in any tournament? Do you actually like exodia decks that have no chance of losing or something?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Could he maybe mean a more relaxed list? Let's face it, some of the cards on the banned list should not be there and Konami just cares too much about crying tournament players *looks @TER*

[Ririku]

Could he maybe mean a more relaxed list? Let's face it, some of the cards on the banned list should not be there and Konami just cares too much about crying tournament players *looks @TER*

Basically. I don't think most of you quite get what I meant by that. I was taking about there shouldn't be single card restrictions but a restriction on how many of that same card you're allowed to use. If anything using pendulum And XYZ monsters is a more messed up way of God-Moding the game than old gen cards.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Basically. I don't think most of you quite get what I meant by that. I was taking about there shouldn't be single card restrictions but a restriction on how many of that same card you're allowed to use. If anything using pendulum And XYZ monsters is a more messed up way of God-Moding the game than old gen cards.

The game has changed over the years. New cards are generally stronger than old ones. That is just how it works, and it always has been. You can choose to not adjust to the changing game, but don't fault others for your lack of adaptability.

[Ririku]

The game has changed over the years. New cards are generally stronger than old ones. That is just how it works, and it always has been. You can choose to not adjust to the changing game, but don't fault others for your lack of adaptability.

I don't, I was just saying it just doesn't make sense to restrict the use of any cards, if they have a restricted numbers of those said cards in their deck. And when I say those cards, I mean those on the banlist. I don't care what cards anyone decides to use xD it always makes the game interesting. I just don't really prefer how some elitists want to talk down to people alot, but you'll have those kind of people in all corners of life.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The rate of power creep change (second derivative) is actually negative. The creep from say January Shaddolls to April Infinity Heroes is actually negative ( Jan Dolls is a better deck basically). The game is only going to get better from here :) have hope night is darkest before the dawn

You honestly don't need to change at all. The game will Go in the direction you wasnt soon anyway. Like the banlist is being chopped left and right. Not fast enough? Sure, you and like minded friends can play while komoney trudges through 2-3 unbans ever list. There are some obv problems with say POG at three however


I think I just missed your entire point lol

[Dementuo]

From what I gather, you either want

1) No banlist whatsoever, with everything at 3

Or

2) A banlist where nothing is actually "Banned" and every card is usable at 1 or more.

 

If you want the former, you're an idiot. If you want the latter, go play Traditional. But as far as the tournament scene goes, the banlist exists for a reason. Without it, we would have to deal with the Wind Up Loop, Yata Lock, Insanely consistent Exodia decks, Dragon Rulers, and every other deck under the sun being 10x more consistent than before, when none of those decks needed any of that. The game would speed up incredibly and you'd actually only be hurting yourself more. The slower, more "old-school" playstyle you so enjoy is actually protected by the very banlist that you're arguing against. The banlist is acting as a dam, a floodgate against the torrent of broken cards and stupid combos that turn the game into an almost impossible-to-keep-up-with stream of insanely fast decks that win within one or two turns no matter what. Remove the dam, and all those things that shouldn't be flood right in and completely drown out any hope of a having a decent game of  yugioh.

 

Now, if you don't care about what happens with the competitive scene, then great, don't go to tournaments and stick to playing casual. Play traditional if you want, or just abandon the banlist entirely. You're free to use your cards in whatever ways you want, as far as casual play goes. But if you're going to argue that tournaments and the competitive scene shouldn't use a banlist, you'd better have solid evidence and a really good explanation as to why.

[Maeriberii Haan]

ideally there shouldn't be a banlist in the first place.

 

but that's only applicable if yugioh undergoes a total reset.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

ideally there shouldn't be a banlist in the first place.
 
but that's only applicable if yugioh undergoes a total reset.

Erratas Nai Erratas

[Ririku]

I like hearing everyone's opinions on the matter, different viewpoints always makes discussions more interesting.

[ihop]

I think banlists are a good thing anyway. They keep the game from being stale and mean you don't need to power creep in order to change the decks that are good.

[ShimoHkun1]

Well I think some cards can be pulled off but left at one (Monster Reborn) but there is a reason why Yata Garasu is banned.
I see where this guy is coming from though.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

No banned list?

 

*lose dice roll*

 

*get FTKed*

 

*several repeats later*

 

"Why was this promoted as a good idea by anyone?"

 

I get that you don't like newer summoning methods, but Exodia FTK or some other FTK is worse then they'll ever be.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Well I think some cards can be pulled off but left at one (Monster Reborn) but there is a reason why Yata Garasu is banned.
I see where this guy is coming from though.

Monster Reborn?
*points at Tellars*
*points at Shaddolls*
*points at Seraphs*
*points at Burning Abyss*
*points at Infernoids*
*points at the graveyard*
Let's not. It is banned for a reason.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Monster Reborn?
*points at Tellars*
*points at Shaddolls*
*points at Seraphs*
*points at Burning Abyss*
*points at Infernoids*
*points at the graveyard*
Let's not. It is banned for a reason.

It's not. The card is slow. It creates too much of a moment swing in a trap deprived format is the problem

[Sleepy]

Yes banned cards can have plays where they don't seem like something broken, mainly in casual play. 

We know that Pot of Greed being used in Starter Deck Yugi is not gonna lead to instant death for the opponent.

However, the cards aren't necessarily measured by the majority of their possible interactions, they are measured by how strong, consistent, and detrimental they can be in their most optimal legal builds.

 

Remember that the banlist was created to regulate tournament play and tournament play alone. When playing with friends you are free to use any "this card cannot be used in a Duel" cards, and your decks among friends are a mutual agreement that you are fine playing each other using certain cards.

You are not playing against new people that don't know you and might not care about you or your experience at the event. You are not aiming to get any prize or best anyone using the best build and strategies that you could possibly have.

 

The tournament scene is one of the things that keeps the game alive, regardless of what your opinion of it might be at any given time, and to unban everything is to unlock a ton of strategies that pretty much win the game in a turn, or before the opponent even has a turn. For the following, "FTK" stands for First Turn Kill.

Makyura FTK, Frog FTK, Dark Strike Fighter FTK, and a lot of Exodia versions, be it with Royal Magical Library abusing banned drawing Spells, through Makyura draws, through a ton of things. There's also that Fish Quasar Deck from the Synchro era.

 

Then there's the other decks that might not be FTKs but are the second layer of terrible ideas, like reforcing Chain Burn, Final Countdown, Infernity, etc. 

Any decks that would abuse Card of Safe Return being at 3 nowadays....

 

If you knew just how many things would break.

There is a certain point where the game becomes so fast and consistent with all this unleashed that it stops being a card game, and even building decks becomes pointless.

 

What keeps the game fun at mostly any level of power IRL is the interaction and back and forth plays we have, the sensation that you worked your way up to win, and that some of your plays were even achievements at times under certain situations.

 

In short, erasing the list would pretty much destroy the game as we know it. Heck even playing in Traditional (which means banned cards become limited cards), which is a much more tame version of "no list" would be hell for the game if played seriously, and no it isn't the same to have a friend with a deck of as many banned staples from Yugi's era as they could fit in, as it'd be to actually get to play each of those banned cards in the decks that can most abuse them.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm going to largely agree with sleepy, but disagree on his comment about traditional

1) the erratas have cleaned up quite a bit of Trad it's not as bad as it used to be

2)people blame trad, but have you noticed it's basically the suit left over after advanced is done with its food? Nobody cares enough about traditional to realize what bans and limits do to it. I don't think it's fair to blame a format that's slowly improving for konami priorities

3) traditional is actully a very fascinating format. It's not nearly the OTK fest the unlimited is nor is it hell as you painted it. Any TCG or OCG competative player might be disgusted, but it's a gem in its own way