Flame Dragon Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Using a picture because I like them more. Just click on the image to blow it up and read the various cards. Bottom 15 is the sideboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Have you thought of maindecking Perilous Vault? As a playset, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Have you thought of maindecking Perilous Vault? As a playset, of course. I have not. I'd assume the card is best vs. Abzan Rally but thats what the Anafenza is for. My problem with it for that match up is also that its slow (it isn't live till turn 5) and Rally decks can also just sac their board to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have not. I'd assume the card is best vs. Abzan Rally but thats what the Anafenza is for. My problem with it for that match up is also that its slow (it isn't live till turn 5) and Rally decks can also just sac their board to avoid it.Nah, your deck list is stock. I would take out the Tasigur and play a another Deathmist or an Ugin. Tasigur is good for grindying, but you have a better filter in this deck. Tasigur is hardly needed, though, with this type of deck. Its ability isn't that great with Den Protector, and it ruins the advantage that can be given over time. Play Hero's Downfall over Ultimate Price. Yes, it is cheap, but Hero's Downfall is better and you have Nissa for early card action above removal. Hero's hits other planeswalkers. Take out an Elspeth, and move it to sideboard. Put in another Thoughtseize. You have weak game against control decks in almost any form Steel or UB variant, as they can grind out better and have more answers. Dromoka's Command makes the matchup much worse, too. Having the Thoughtseize helps. Elspeth is good, I agree, but 3 is too much for the maindeck if you're have no means to protect it consistently. Thoughtseize should also be a 4 in this deck. From sideboard, take out Bile Blight and put in Duress. Here are the changes I would make-1 Tasigur-1 Elspeth-1 Ultimate Price +1 Ugin+1 Thoughtseize+1 Deathmist Sideboard:-1 Bile Blight+1 Duress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Nah, your deck list is stock. I would take out the Tasigur and play a another Deathmist or an Ugin. Tasigur is good for grindying, but you have a better filter in this deck. Tasigur is hardly needed, though, with this type of deck. Its ability isn't that great with Den Protector, and it ruins the advantage that can be given over time. Play Hero's Downfall over Ultimate Price. Yes, it is cheap, but Hero's Downfall is better and you have Nissa for early card action above removal. Hero's hits other planeswalkers. Take out an Elspeth, and move it to sideboard. Put in another Thoughtseize. You have weak game against control decks in almost any form Steel or UB variant, as they can grind out better and have more answers. Dromoka's Command makes the matchup much worse, too. Having the Thoughtseize helps. Elspeth is good, I agree, but 3 is too much for the maindeck if you're have no means to protect it consistently. Thoughtseize should also be a 4 in this deck. From sideboard, take out Bile Blight and put in Duress. Here are the changes I would make -1 Tasigur -1 Elspeth -1 Ultimate Price +1 Ugin +1 Thoughtseize +1 Deathmist Sideboard: -1 Bile Blight +1 Duress I actually had the 4th Thoughtseize in the list until right before I posted it. I made the change for the Ultimate Price because of how much mono Red was running around at the PT. I went for Price over the Downfall because it gives me cheaper interaction in that match up. That train of thought could be wrong through. I can get behind the -1 Elspeth for the +1 Ugin. I'm not going to lie, part of the reason I'm playing only 3 Raptors is because of how expensive it is. Of the cards I need for the deck the only expensive stuff is 2 Raptors and 1 Nissa and Nissa is an easier pill to swallow because I'm going to be using her in EDH which can't be said for the Raptor. Only reason I don't think its crazy to cut a Raptor is because I've seen other lists trying it and I figured it was worth seeing how that plays. I don't think Tasigur is that much of a nombo with Den Protector. I can always pay less with Delve and between fetches and random lands Wayfind might put in the yard I think its pretty easy to avoid exiling something important. Can also get behind the sideboard change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I actually had the 4th Thoughtseize in the list until right before I posted it. I made the change for the Ultimate Price because of how much mono Red was running around at the PT. I went for Price over the Downfall because it gives me cheaper interaction in that match up. That train of thought could be wrong through. I can get behind the -1 Elspeth for the +1 Ugin. I'm not going to lie, part of the reason I'm playing only 3 Raptors is because of how expensive it is. Of the cards I need for the deck the only expensive stuff is 2 Raptors and 1 Nissa and Nissa is an easier pill to swallow because I'm going to be using her in EDH which can't be said for the Raptor. Only reason I don't think its crazy to cut a Raptor is because I've seen other lists trying it and I figured it was worth seeing how that plays. I don't think Tasigur is that much of a nombo with Den Protector. I can always pay less with Delve and between fetches and random lands Wayfind might put in the yard I think its pretty easy to avoid exiling something important. Can also get behind the sideboard change.Red is going to be at the pro tour because everyone is trying to play control, and not doing so great at it. Decks are trying to do too much and have something main for just about every deck. You can't accord to do this because of this not playing a pure midrange game. It is meant to play a pure value game. Red can easily become ill-equipped Dromoka's Command acts like your Ultimate Price, but better. That is why you shouldn't play Ultimate Price, and why you should play Downfall since everyone else is trying to jam Ashiok or Elspeth, which you are opening yourself up to. This acts as another creature removal anyways. That is why I think this trap of thought is wrong. Dromoka's Command sure off many of the things that Ultimate Price does. Raptor is expensive, but reward and has synergy with most of the deck, so it can easily be free if you need it to be. No it is a nombo with Deathmist Raptor, making Den Protector slightly worse. The Megamorph is a value package that is meant to fight through stalemates. Weaken edges in it can 'cause you to lose the match, and Tasigur doesn't solve much that this deck has problems with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Red is going to be at the pro tour because everyone is trying to play control, and not doing so great at it. Decks are trying to do too much and have something main for just about every deck. You can't accord to do this because of this not playing a pure midrange game. It is meant to play a pure value game. Red can easily become ill-equipped Dromoka's Command acts like your Ultimate Price, but better. That is why you shouldn't play Ultimate Price, and why you should play Downfall since everyone else is trying to jam Ashiok or Elspeth, which you are opening yourself up to. This acts as another creature removal anyways. That is why I think this trap of thought is wrong. Dromoka's Command sure off many of the things that Ultimate Price does. Raptor is expensive, but reward and has synergy with most of the deck, so it can easily be free if you need it to be. No it is a nombo with Deathmist Raptor, making Den Protector slightly worse. The Megamorph is a value package that is meant to fight through stalemates. Weaken edges in it can 'cause you to lose the match, and Tasigur doesn't solve much that this deck has problems with. Fair arguments for both points. I honestly was viewing Command as a 2 mana removal spell so having the 1 Downfall would be fine. Would you recommend it over the Ugin? When I say expensive I mean monetary cost. The nice thing is I have the vast majority of the card for the deck just sitting around with just 1 Languish, 3 GB Temples, 1 Lion, 2 Raptors, and 1 Nissa still needing to be obtained. Most of those are cheap and I'd want to get another Nissa for EDH anyway (I'm also getting it for a decent price off a friend). Its the spending the extra $22 for the Raptor that I'm less willing to do. I know its not the greatest reason, but I'm only willing to spend so much money. I'd cut the Tasigur if I ever got a 4th copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Nah, I think you need to have 3 planeswalkers to give you enivitability. I like Abzan Charm, but I think people are playing too many. This is just an idea, but try Downfall over Charm for now to see of it works. It is a card that is needed, but could be potentially off-putting if you can grind through Elspeths. Or you could take out a Thoughtseize, as Downfall does properly act like it for Elspeth's, Pearl Lakes, and the work. Instead of supporting your megamorph package, it supports you "getting damage in". This would support your idea against Red, and give you something against control. sorry, sometimes I am thinking about 3 points ahead and not realizing the lack of space in decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Nah, I think you need to have 3 planeswalkers to give you enivitability. I like Abzan Charm, but I think people are playing too many. This is just an idea, but try Downfall over Charm for now to see of it works. It is a card that is needed, but could be potentially off-putting if you can grind through Elspeths. Or you could take out a Thoughtseize, as Downfall does properly act like it for Elspeth's, Pearl Lakes, and the work. Instead of supporting your megamorph package, it supports you "getting damage in". This would support your idea against Red, and give you something against control. sorry, sometimes I am thinking about 3 points ahead and not realizing the lack of space in decks. Charm is so good because its never dead. If your playing against RG you have answers to their big threats. If your playing against control you have extra card. If your boarding into a more aggressive build you have extra counters to help push through more damage. The fact that it exiles is also relevant for Ensouled Darksteel Citadels. I am down for adding Downfall for the Ultimate Price instead of putting pack the 4th Thoughtseize. Its fine. I'm planning on picking up the last few cards this week so getting a bunch of different possible ideas is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I'm not an Abzan player, I just know how the deck functions and how to play the game from the Heroic and control side. That is my best experience with the deck, so you know more of the matchups than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.