[OGW] new!Kozilek, Wastes, Mirrorpool (confirmed real)

[bury the year]

[spoiler=Big image.]

 

 

...discuss?

[Rodrigo]

NO. funking. WAY.

 

I'm gonna wait for December 28th to get really hyped. Because if those are real... SHIIIIIIIIIIIIT.

[heraldry_lord]

Even if these are fake, these are definitely better than my idea for Barry's Land and Kozilek, the latter of which I do believe is faffing about underground, given all the Kozilek spawn that show up underground and their flavour text.

 

The floating headplate is also a nice touch, since it connects Kozi to his spawn.

[.Rai]

I mean, the art's real, so this could easily be a real leak.

 

Really interesting.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Wait, so is this a new kind of mana? 

 

Because that seems reaaaaaaally weird to introduce in the second half of a block. And adds more crediance to the idea that Emrakul is now on another plane (That we will visit soon) 

[heraldry_lord]

Assuming it's real, EDH Eldrazi/Karn players can rejoice; as for Kozilek, menace makes a lot of sense, since it's the new intimidate, and fear is part of his modus operandi.  The first and last abilities are very nice though.

 

The neat thing about Kozilek has always been that he didn't have any amazing amount of protection like his two comrades, but he makes up for it with advantage out the wazoo.

 

 

Wait, so is this a new kind of mana? 

 

Because that seems reaaaaaaally weird to introduce in the second half of a block. And adds more crediance to the idea that Emrakul is now on another plane (That we will visit soon) 

 

Vestige of Emrakul practically confirmed that she's no longer on Zendikar.

[.Rai]

Mirrorpool kinda messes things up though. It messes with the idea that Diamond means pay only with colourless mana.

 

Of the three, Mirrorpool is probably most likely fake.

[bury the year]

Mirrorpool kinda messes things up though. It messes with the idea that Diamond means pay only with colourless mana.

 

Of the three, Mirrorpool is probably most likely fake.

Rai took the words right out of my mouth. The nonstandard mana symbols we've seen previously (hybrid, snow and Phyrexian) never indicated a type of mana you could add to your mana pool: they were only a different way to pay for a cost. (You cannot add Phyrexian mana to your mana pool, for example, but you can pay for a Phyrexian mana symbol in a cost.) Mirrorpool breaks that standard, and in a way that's hard to reconcile.

 

Plus, there's the fact that Mirrorpool was leaked separately from the original. I'd like to think that someone mocked it up really quick after seeing Kozilek/Wastes and posted it then.

[heraldry_lord]

So, am I to assume that Ulamog was the "dumb brute" of the group, and Kozilek is the more "Lovecraftian" titan?

 

If the Cosi-Ula story Noyan Dar mentioned was foreshadowing for this, basically Ulamog got captured, Ob Nob temporarily frees him, and they re-defeat them, but then Kozilek (after waiting like a ****ing crocodile in a river) sees the opportunity, and pops out and wrecks everything, bringing Zendikar to its knees.

 

I'd like that ending.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

HOLY sheet BARRY'S LAND

[Delibirb]

Hype.

 

Wondering if the new symbol means "must be paid with colorless mana", as opposed to the current "can be paid with any color of mana". Though that doesnt quite seem to fit with Wastes unless it's intended to be a source of colorless mana in Limited/as a basic.

[Flame Dragon]

I think the thing thats keeping me from being hyped is how limiting the "pay only with colorless" mana thing is (thats what I'm assuming it is for now). Its really cool, don't get me wrong, but it has such massive compatibility issues since trying to add diamond cards into a deck is like trying to add another color of mana.

 

Waste is most likely needed otherwise limited just wouldn't work. If a bunch of cards have D (I'm going to use that as short hand) your going to need a bunch of colorless lands and you'd need a basic in much the same was you'd need a bunch of Forest if you have G cards in your deck. However this causes an issue of how players get them. Like, stores would need over a 1000 with their prerelease product and likely a lot more since players are often very bad at returning basics they use. Also, note that while this is a basic it has no subtype. Like a forest is a Forest because it has Basic Land - Forest, not because its named Forest. The full arts have them on the right, this has nothing.

 

Also, agree that this is a VERY weird thing to bring in during the second set. I mean, the last set of a block normally has some big WHA thing, but this is too big to make sense in the last set.

 

ONE MORE THING!!! Very minor nit pick, but Ula had a MASSIVE redesign in terms of Rise and Battle. Seeing Kozi looking more or less the same feels off.

[heraldry_lord]

ONE MORE THING!!! Very minor nit pick, but Ula had a MASSIVE redesign in terms of Rise and Battle. Seeing Kozi looking more or less the same feels off.

 

I might just get ignored, but Kozilek in this art does have a very distinctively different feature: the floating obsidian plates his spawn have. 

[Flame Dragon]

I might just get ignored, but Kozilek in this art does have a very distinctively different feature: the floating obsidian plates his spawn have.

This is true. But after seeing Ula I was expecting a bigger design difference in him. Though now having the plates his spawn have had is something.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I think the thing thats keeping me from being hyped is how limiting the "pay only with colorless" mana thing is (thats what I'm assuming it is for now). Its really cool, don't get me wrong, but it has such massive compatibility issues since trying to add diamond cards into a deck is like trying to add another color of mana.

 

Waste is most likely needed otherwise limited just wouldn't work. If a bunch of cards have D (I'm going to use that as short hand) your going to need a bunch of colorless lands and you'd need a basic in much the same was you'd need a bunch of Forest if you have G cards in your deck. However this causes an issue of how players get them. Like, stores would need over a 1000 with their prerelease product and likely a lot more since players are often very bad at returning basics they use. Also, note that while this is a basic it has no subtype. Like a forest is a Forest because it has Basic Land - Forest, not because its named Forest. The full arts have them on the right, this has nothing.

 

Also, agree that this is a VERY weird thing to bring in during the second set. I mean, the last set of a block normally has some big WHA thing, but this is too big to make sense in the last set.

 

ONE MORE THING!!! Very minor nit pick, but Ula had a MASSIVE redesign in terms of Rise and Battle. Seeing Kozi looking more or less the same feels off.

I think you will find this a good read, regarding the addition of new colors to the game.

 

Also, keep in mind that we have painlands in standard, and they can tap for colorless mana, as can the Blighted cycle. Also, that was a good catch, with the missing subtype. Is it not the subtype that grants them the ability? Isn't that how Blood Moon works?

 

EDIT: Thinking on it, this mana is definitely still colorless, otherwise Kozilek would be a colored creature, preventing him from working with the majority of the previous set.

 

This really calls into question what the funk it means to produce mana.

 

Copy-pasted my comment from mythicspoiler: So, thinking on this whole concept of mana, there are some major issues. A popular idea is that costs including MUST be paid with colorless mana, increasing the usefulness of pain lands, utility lands, etc. That much makes a ton of sense. The issue lies in the fact that this land also produces mana. can be thought of like hybrid or phyrexian mana: when used in costs, it makes a ton of sense, but the mechanics for it don't really work for it to be produced.

 

Of course, the opposing argument would be that is a new color. Unfortunately, while that is mechanically possible, it feels very unlikely, due to a fairly simply fact. If represents a color, Kozilek isn't colorless. He can't be cast using Eldrazi Temple, he can't be searched with Conduit of Ruin of Eye of Ugin, hell, you can't give him haste with Forerunner of Slaughter. WOTC wouldn't give us an Eldrazi Titan that couldn't use all the past Eldrazi support. And it doesn't make sense for creatures to be treated as colorless, either, since we just got a keyword for that, which could have easily fit on Kozilek's card.

 

Put simply, either has overly complex rules that I didn't cover, or Mirrorpool (and potentially Wastes and Kozilek as well) is fake.

[Flame Dragon]

I think you will find this a good read, regarding the addition of new colors to the game.

 

Also, keep in mind that we have painlands in standard, and they can tap for colorless mana, as can the Blighted cycle. Also, that was a good catch, with the missing subtype. Is it not the subtype that grants them the ability? Isn't that how Blood Moon works?

But this isn't really a 6th color if it is "pay only with colorless". It would however play like one and have the issue discussed in the article where you'd need to get the players to try and play the "color" in draft.

 

This issue isn't really standard. I was going to start talking about players needing colorless lands, but I realized we have tons currently. The issue is limited and having enough of the right lands to play the D cards.

 

 

Also my friend pointed out that the Waste is a Common. As in its 184/184 C where the basics all have L. My guess is this means it will be like the Khans duels in Fate. Since the other interpretation is that it would be one of the 10 commons seems very out there.

 

 

Also, alternate theory on what the D can mean. D means pay with D or pay 2 of any color. Though I feel like that would have been written on the card. Honestly, in general I feel like whatever D means it should have been written on the card. The only reason it wouldn't is if D literally means pay D like R means pay R. That seems WAY to parasitic though.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Something brought up on salvation is the possibility that producing colorless mana will be retemplated to producing mana, so as to reduce the confusion between colorless mana and generic mana in costs. I actually really really like this idea, and it has pretty much turned me around on my thoughts of these cards' legitimacy.

 

Still miffed about a card like Mirrorpool being mythic, but hey, maybe it will have significance we don't know of yet.

 

[spoiler=also, i found this pretty cool]

 

[Flame Dragon]

Something brought up on salvation is the possibility that producing colorless mana will be retemplated to producing mana, so as to reduce the confusion between colorless mana and generic mana in costs. I actually really really like this idea, and it has pretty much turned me around on my thoughts of these cards' legitimacy.

 

Still miffed about a card like Mirrorpool being mythic, but hey, maybe it will have significance we don't know of yet.

 

[spoiler=also, i found this pretty cool]

 

That doesn't make sense since if they were going to do it they would have done it in Battle. A major change like that would be very off in the second set.

 

Mirrorpool at mythic feels really off to me too. The only other two were both legendary and SUPER story important. I mean, this could end up being story important, but why isn't it legendary?

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

That doesn't make sense since if they were going to do it they would have done it in Battle. A major change like that would be very off in the second set.Mirrorpool at mythic feels really off to me too. The only other two were both legendary and SUPER story important. I mean, this could end up being story important, but why isn't it legendary?

They wouldn't have done it before, because it would ruin the surprise.

Also, keep in mind Maze's End is not legendary either. This is because, while there is only one of the place, multiple ties can be made to the mana. Land cards are not the physical places, rather the access to the mana from said place.

Nykthos is legendary for balance purposes.

[Flame Dragon]

They wouldn't have done it before, because it would ruin the surprise.

Also, keep in mind Maze's End is not legendary either. This is because, while there is only one of the place, multiple ties can be made to the mana. Land cards are not the physical places, rather the access to the mana from said place.

Nykthos is legendary for balance purposes.

Though I'd still argue that this would have been better in the first set.

 

I could swear it was. Meh. And yes, balance is a much bigger reason for legendary lands.

 

Personally I'd much rather to be pay either or 2 than have it mean pay colorless.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Personally I'd much rather to be pay either or 2 than have it mean pay colorless.

This would literally be monocolored hybrid mana for a sixth color.

[bury the year]

Something brought up on salvation is the possibility that producing colorless mana will be retemplated to producing mana, so as to reduce the confusion between colorless mana and generic mana in costs. I actually really really like this idea, and it has pretty much turned me around on my thoughts of these cards' legitimacy.

Huh, I really like that idea too. It doesn't seem like a "necessary" fix, but if Wizards wanted to introduce Barry's land, this would be the right time to apply those changes. I just question why they didn't do it in BFZ - guessing they wanted to save the surprise?

[Flame Dragon]

This would literally be monocolored hybrid mana for a sixth color.

Yes, but it makes it a lot more flexible while also playing up a key characteristic of the Eldrazi, they are super expensive. As just the "spend colorless" it is FAR more restrictive to play.

[Forest Fire]

here's an idea: someone get in contact with wotc and ask if this is an official spoiler or not.

in the mean time: hyped as sheet for ogw.

[bury the year]

here's an idea: someone get in contact with wotc and ask if this is an official spoiler or not.

in the mean time: hyped as sheet for ogw.

Members of WotC in the past have stated on Reddit that they cannot confirm or deny leaked spoilers in any way. They at least haven't done so in the past, so they wouldn't start now.