thekazu4u Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Remember [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Darkness_Approaches"]Darkness Approaches[/url]? Yea, I did not until about 15 minutes ago. Then I thought that more cards need that mechanic. However, the following are now "official" rulings: -A face-down Attack Position monster cannot declare an attack. -When battle(s) involving face-up Attack Position monster(s) occur, the face-down attack position monster(s) are flipped into face-up attack position at the same time as a face-down defense position monster would be flipped into face-up Defense Position: The Damage Step. Damage calculation is then applied normally, as if the face-down attack position monster(s) were in face-up attack position. -Equip spells cannot target face-down attack position monsters. Now that we got this cleared up, let us proceed to the cards! [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41294.jpg[/img] Both players can Set monsters into Face-Down Attack Position. While this card remains face up on the field, Face-Down Attack Position monsters can declare attacks. If a Face-Down Attack Position monster is flipped face-up: You can return this card to your hand. When this card is removed from the field: Flip all Face-Down Attack Position monsters into Face-Up Attack Position. You can then add one Fiend-Type monster with 500 or less ATK to your hand. [Spoiler=Comments] This is the main card and field-spell of the set. It enables the crazy craziness and allows the Face-Down Attack Position monsters to attack. It also doubles as a searcher. This card has uses in many decks, not just in the set I am showing here. The theme of the card is "make the game a Shadow Game." Secret Rare. Picture by Spiky. [/Spoiler] [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41299.jpg[/img] If this card is flipped face-up, increase this card's ATK by 1000 until the End Phase. You can then add 1 "Shadow Brigade" monster from your Graveyard or Deck to your hand. [SPOILER=comments] The 1000 ATK should not help you very much, but the fact that you will get a reusable search from the Graveyard or Deck will help A LOT. Common. Picture by FatherWolf. [/SPOileR] [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41304.jpg[/img] If this card is flipped face-up, this card gains 1500 ATK until the End Phase. You can then destroy 1 Face-Down Spell or Trap card on the field. [SPOILER=Comments] There is not too much to say about this one. 1600 ATK is not at all bad, especially considering he is a level 1, and the spell/trap destruction is something that the deck really needs. Image by Svedde_Detskriverjaqjuinte. Common. [/SPOILER] [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41307.jpg[/img] If this card is flipped face-up, increase this card's ATK by 2000 until the End Phase. You can then destroy 1 Face-Up Spell or Trap card. [spoiler=Comments] The first real beater of the bunch. 2200 ATK is nothing to mess around with. Also, the Spell/Trap Destruction is nothing to sneeze at in certain situations. Image by Father Wolf, Common. [/spoiler] [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41310.jpg[/img] If this card is flipped face-up, increase this card's ATK by 2500 until the End Phase. You can then Banish 1 card in either player's Graveyard. [Spoiler=Comments] In many ways, this is the "boss" of the set. It is a 2800 beater that will Banish 1 card in either player's Graveyard each turn if used correctly. Image by Father Wolf, Rare. [/SPoiler] [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41312.jpg[/img] 2 Level 1 "Shadow Brigade" Monsters If a Field Spell Card is activated: You can detach 1 Xyz Material Monster from this card; Flip all Face-Up Attack Position monsters into Face-Down Attack Position. Flip: This card gains 1000 ATK for each Face-Down Attack Position monster on the field until the End Phase. [Spoiler=Comments] Ok, I lied about the other one being the Boss. This is the legit, absolute, and complete boss of the set. It can get so much attack it is not even funny. Also, it allows you to flip everything into face-down Attack Position each turn in conjunction with that Field Spell. The downside of course, is that this thing is hard to Summon out. Even getting 2 monsters on the field is a bit tough, especially without one for one. But when this thing hits the field, watch out. Plus, this is the first Extra-Deck Flip effect monster Image by Svedde_Detskriverjaqjuinte. Ultra Rare. [/Spoiler] Your thoughts? I think this set could make for some epic anti-meta stuff; it lacks Special Summons however. EDIT: new counter trap for uber anti-metaishness [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/41376.jpg[/img] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3][left]Activate when your opponent Summons a monster(s); Flip 1 face-down Attack Position monster face-up: Negate the Special Summon and destroy those monster(s). If the monster flipped face-up was a "Shadow Brigade" monster, you can pay 2000 Life Points to return this card to your hand instead of sending it to the Graveyard.[/left][/size][/font][/color] [left][font="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#000000"]Im a bit afraid I took it too far with the trap... is it crazy broken?[/color][/size][/font][/left] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyzzyzus Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Since the regular effect monsters have flip effects, and low attack, there's no real reason to have them be in face-down attack position rather than defense position. It would be good to add some more cards with effects that actually affect monsters in face-down attack position beyond having them be able to attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I can see why you want them in Face-Down attack, so that your opponent unwittingly rams into a 2500 beater out of nowhere. Problem comes when you see Flip Effect rulings. As ruled a flip effect of a monster that was attacked while face-down activates after Damage Calculation, so as your guys are worded they would gain the attack after the battle that took place, but that wouldn't matter because they'd be destroyed by then. My fix for that would be to word all of the effects as follows: If this monster is flipped face-up, it gains X ATK. No colons, no Semi-Colons, just a comma. That would fix your problem right there. Now as to word the other effects I have no clue how to while still keeping them flip effects, though wording them like Snowman Eater would be a plausible way to make this work. For your Xyz, it's underpowered. I find this purely because you have to use these Shadow Brigade monsters whose effects are pretty much control based rather than swarm based. There's no real synergy other than "Oh these guys gain attacks. Oh they destroy/banish cards!" The field spell is pretty fine as-is, though I find it kind of pointless to be able to attack with a 200 ATK monster since they don't get the boost until they're face-up, plus game mechanics would rule them as having 0 ATK most likely (see Relinquished equipping a face-down monster for my source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 My bad with the flip effects. Ill fix after this comment. And no, they would be flipped up upon battling, it would be just like battling with a def monster except the other monster can be destroyed. Also, I am a bit concerned with my exceed. Not really sure why you say that it does not have synergy. It is a high ATK beater that flips them down so they can reuse the flip effects. The lack of swarm is a balancing factor. Plus, beatdown and control have lots of synergy. And there is a place for XYZs out of swarm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbu-of-Sand Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 [b]Consuming Darkness[/b] First of all, face-down doesn't have to be capitalized; it's the equivalent to face-up when it comes to that. Second, the card seems fairly nice, to a certain extent that is. Being able to constantly search for some of your monsters. I feel like the requirements should be a bit less specific though. Perhaps one Fiend-Type monster in general? One Level 4 or lower Fiend-Type? Or perhaps just increase the ATK range of the monster you can search (1000 or so perhaps). I suggest not making it so that Face-Downs can attack though; because your monsters won't get to a fair amount of ATK points until they are flipped. [b]Bard of the Shadow Brigade[/b] Its main effect feels lacking. That only leaves it at a measly 1000 ATK. Perhaps give it a 1000 ATK base, that way you get a 2000 ATK beater, and it becomes searchable by Consuming Darkness if you choose to up the ATK range on that to 1000 as well. Perhaps even make it so that when you flip it, it stays at 2000 ATK as long as it stays on the field; that way you have to go through the process again once it leaves it. Recycling Shadow Brigades is a nice addition to it too. [b]Devil of the Shadow Brigade[/b] Once again, perhaps make it 1000 ATK, give it some sort of ATK steroid, and make it so that ATK steroid stays until it leaves the field. But due to the similar main effects of both Shadow Brigades, perhaps give this the +1000 ATK to make it a 2000 beater and the other perhaps only 800 (just to match the artworks; this seems that it should be more powerful then the above in terms of ATK). Or perhaps make it so the above when flipped gains 2000 DEF and then changed to Defense Position if it wasn't in Defense Position in the first place. Back to this card; the popping is simple yet effective, nothing else to say. [b]Hound of the Shadow Brigade[/b] Oh, you want this to be the beatstick xD Then perhaps do the following: [u]Bard:[/u] When flipped goes from 1000 ATK / 1000 DEF to 1000 ATK / 2000 DEF, then switched to Defense Position and keeps those stats until it's removed from the field [u]Devil[/u] When flipped goes from 1000 ATK to 1800 ATK and keeps those stats until it's removed from the field While you make this card keep it's 2000 steroid until it stays on the field, making it a fairly decent 2200 beater. It's effect though isn't as effective as the others. You rarely face Decks with a decent amount of Continuous Spells / Traps or with a Field Spell. Perhaps give the Archetype some swarming by letting this Special Summon a monster from your say, hand when this is flipped and that monster gains it's effects when it's Summoned. This way you get a combo with this and Bard. [b]Corruption of the Shadow Brigade[/b] Now this seems to be a bit much. You already have a fair amount of beatsticks / a possible wall (if you follow my advice) for your Archetype. This card can go either way now in my opinion. What I say is you give this card decent stats (say 1000 / 1000), and make it a growing beatstick; say 100 ATK every time a monster is Set. From there you could possibly due something such as when the card reaches 1500 or 2000 ATK (whichever you find to be more appropriate), you can Tribute the card to flip a certain amount of monsters on the field. This way you can trigger all your monster's effects at once, but then you have to make sure to do it in a certain order. Perhaps first Devil to pop a card that may break the combo; then Bard to recycle a monster; then Hound to get that monster out (depending on if you choose to make my version of the card). This gives you a great advantage. I wouldn't suggest giving it the banishing effect because it feels out of place and wouldn't synergize that much with the cards. [b]Spawn of the Shadow Brigade[/b] This is a really nice boss monster. It ties well with the Archetype as a whole and can be at most a 9000 beater for a turn. But to make it so it isn't vulnerable, perhaps add an effect where it can't be destroyed (by battle, card effects, or possibly even both) while it has XYZ Material on it. [b]Shadow Brigade Archetype Overall[/b] I really love how you're bringing back a dead card into use. The Archetype has a nice concept, but in my opinion lacked some sort of synergy. If you choose to take in my compliments, the Archetype can have a good amount of decent, and also devastating combos. The Archetype also looks to have One for One as a must, along with cards such as Sangan with them all being so searchable (which could or could not be broken; think of all the searchers you can use). But on the other hand, the Archetype COMPLETELY relies on being Flipped in order to be effective, which worries me. Perhaps if you continue on with this Archetype, you make some Spell / Trap Support to fix this problem. In particular, perhaps a card that can constantly flip your monsters face-down again (then again there are Book of Moon / Book of Eclipses). I'd say it's a fairly decent Archetype as of now, with more of a casual over competitive feel to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I like my main cards (Bard, Devil, Hound, Corruption) to have the same general style of effect, except in increasing amounts. One 0/0 that gets a +1000 when flipped, one 100/100 that gets a +1500 when flipped, one 200/200 that gets a +2000 when flipped and finally a 300/300 that gets a +2500. Now, I don't really want to make do something completely different. For example, if you think the atk bonuses are too big, then i could start at +500. Remember when archetypes were designed around a mechanic? Sort of like Lightsworn, or Gladiator Beasts? I want to do something like that. Not something like nowadays when archetypes are just random groups of cards that work well together. I am trying to get mine to work together [i] AND [/i] focus around a certain new mechanic, i.e. face-down attack position. In other words, I think bard/devil/hound/corruption have the right types of effect. They are all flip (well pseudo-flip) effects. I don't really intend to change that, or add any extra effects to them. Maybe change what the pseudo-flip does, but not change it all together. That would be like making a lightsworn that does not mill. And yea I know wulf, but it is still based around that general mechanic - my wulf would be the xyz. But put in too many of those, and then you have an archetype without a theme. So I want to stick to one. I could put a protection effect on Spawn. It would probably be based on face-down attack position, though. Not exactly sure how I would do it. Why should I make the field spell less specific? I don't really want darkworld to have any MORE draw (or search) power, and the 500 or less atk thing lets it double in another pseudo-archetype I am working on. Well, after looking through the cards I have a specific question. I wan't bard to be a low-atk/def floater. 1000 seems suitable. But in order for it to be a legitimate floater, it needs to be able to consistently grant a +1. I think maybe I should let it search the deck AND graveyard. What do you think? Finally, as this is supposed to be a control deck, I figured I would add in the heart of any control deck, a trap. Do you think that would fit with the archetype? As for the power level of the archetype, I think I want it to be about tier 2-ish. Nothing broken (don't worry I could not hold back - ill make another tier 1-ish deck using the field) but still competitive at locals and regionals. Do you think I meet that goal? Too powerful or too low power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbu-of-Sand Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333249035' post='5897034'] I like my main cards (Bard, Devil, Hound, Corruption) to have the same general style of effect, except in increasing amounts. One 0/0 that gets a +1000 when flipped, one 100/100 that gets a +1500 when flipped, one 200/200 that gets a +2000 when flipped and finally a 300/300 that gets a +2500. Now, I don't really want to make do something completely different. For example, if you think the atk bonuses are too big, then i could start at +500. [b]Understood[/b] Remember when archetypes were designed around a mechanic? Sort of like Lightsworn, or Gladiator Beasts? I want to do something like that. Not something like nowadays when archetypes are just random groups of cards that work well together. I am trying to get mine to work together [i] AND [/i] focus around a certain new mechanic, i.e. face-down attack position. In other words, I think bard/devil/hound/corruption have the right types of effect. They are all flip (well pseudo-flip) effects. I don't really intend to change that, or add any extra effects to them. Maybe change what the pseudo-flip does, but not change it all together. That would be like making a lightsworn that does not mill. And yea I know wulf, but it is still based around that general mechanic - my wulf would be the xyz. But put in too many of those, and then you have an archetype without a theme. So I want to stick to one. [b]I'm not saying to change that, I'm just trying to find a way to have their other effects synergize even better. They already all have some sort of ATK increase they get when Flipped, I just suggested to have them keep that boost until they are removed from the field, in which they would have to Set the monster once again. The Archetype would still have a theme even if you choose to change Bard, Devil, and Hound to work better with each other (the suggestions I well, suggested and implementing them in). Corruption on top of that would tie those three cards together greatly (once again if you change their effects slightly / completely). Don't forget though that you'll need cards to Set them back to normal in the first place if you want to repeat their card usage; my form of Corruption simply just flips them back up (sure their is Book of Eclipse, but still).[/b] I could put a protection effect on Spawn. It would probably be based on face-down attack position, though. Not exactly sure how I would do it. [b]Perhaps make it so once per turn if the card would be destroyed, you can flip it to face-down attack position instead? Perhaps make it so it can only do that if it has Material on it still (but not at the cost of material), and that it can't be targeted be card effects / in battle for the rest of that turn. This way you have the option to stall it out, or try to OTK the enemy by using it's effect. In that case, perhaps make it so it costs 2 Material in order to make it a mega beatstick.[/b] Why should I make the field spell less specific? I don't really want darkworld to have any MORE draw (or search) power, and the 500 or less atk thing lets it double in another pseudo-archetype I am working on. [b]Dark Worlds wouldn't run this over what they currently have. They get much more +'s through Discarding. But if it works with a pseudo-archetype you are working on, I guess you can keep it the same.[/b] Well, after looking through the cards I have a specific question. I wan't bard to be a low-atk/def floater. 1000 seems suitable. But in order for it to be a legitimate floater, it needs to be able to consistently grant a +1. I think maybe I should let it search the deck AND graveyard. What do you think? [b]As long as it's once per turn. Maybe give it like I said, 1000 / 1000 ATK and DEF, but when it's flipped it goes to 1800 DEF and is turned to Defense Position (this way it's not as big as a wall but can still float for a fair amount of time). Then give it the option to search from the Graveyard, OR perhaps flip one of your monsters face-down. This way if your opponent has a scary face-down Spell or Trap, instead of wasting a MST or Heavy Storm on it, you can simply flip back Devil and flip it next turn.[/b] Finally, as this is supposed to be a control deck, I figured I would add in the heart of any control deck, a trap. Do you think that would fit with the archetype? [b]Depends. Would this Trap be continuous? Would it be more so for you then your opponent? Would it serve you both but obviously give you the upper hand?[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 k, so... I think I am getting what you are saying. I am going more for the "flavor" and having the cards form a perfect "cycle" while you want to make them more useful. the original idea was to have bard be the opposite of corruption (bard brings back, corruption banishes. Bard has low atk, corruption has high). And the other two were opposites as well. Anyways, Ill look at your suggestions. But a few minutes ago I built a counter trap to support the set, I am afraid I made it too powerful. It is like a super uber version of Solemn Warning, except it does not work on effects, only on inherent summons. Take a look at it, I think it increases the power of the set substantially. I will be reading your comments more in detail, seeing how I can keep the flavor of the set while making the effects work better together in a set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbu-of-Sand Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I don't think it's broken. It only works with face-down Attack Position (which is only capable for Darkness Approaches and this Field Spell). It's pretty much a BTH but destroys only and not banishes (last time I checked Solemn Warning can only target one monster, I could be wrong). It's cost has a feel of Solemn Warning because it's 2000 Life Points, and that's just for reusing it again, which isn't too bad. I'd say it's overall alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333241464' post='5896803'] My bad with the flip effects. Ill fix after this comment. And no, they would be flipped up upon battling, it would be just like battling with a def monster except the other monster can be destroyed. Also, I am a bit concerned with my exceed. Not really sure why you say that it does not have synergy. It is a high ATK beater that flips them down so they can reuse the flip effects. The lack of swarm is a balancing factor. Plus, beatdown and control have lots of synergy. And there is a place for XYZs out of swarm... [/quote] Responding to this: I know it would be flipped upon battle. That's why I had the concern, because flip effects don't activate until after Damage Calculation so it wouldn't work like I expect you hoped it would. But that's moot since you fixed it. And what I was saying is that your Archtype is more about field control, not about getting 2 or more out to actually have the guy out. They're too slow for an Xyz imo. And it's a beater until your opponent's turn, where it becomes a 0 ATK blind target if you flip it your turn. And once again, being a Flip effect means if it's attacked while face-down the effect won't activate until after Damage Calculation, so it's at 0 ATK until then, where it's already been killed. And as a last comment the set idea appeals to me, that's why I'm being so nitpicky on the Synergy and everything. It's just that a few beaters that happen to destroy stuff when flipped seems a bit too slow for a tier worthy deck, and not being able to get out their big boss without stalling doesn't help my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Ok. I read all the posts and I am thinking that I have some idea(s) and some responses to your ideas. [quote] I just suggested to have them keep that boost until they are removed from the field [/quote] This is possible. HOWEVER... I decided to keep it only one turn so that face-down attack position is encouraged. I would rather make their other affects stronger or give more ways to flip to face-down attack than this. [quote]As long as it's once per turn. Maybe give it like I said, 1000 / 1000 ATK and DEF, but when it's flipped it goes to 1800 DEF and is turned to Defense Position (this way it's not as big as a wall but can still float for a fair amount of time). Then give it the option to search from the Graveyard, OR perhaps flip one of your monsters face-down. This way if your opponent has a scary face-down Spell or Trap, instead of wasting a MST or Heavy Storm on it, you can simply flip back Devil and flip it next turn. [/quote] First off, I want it to stay in all attack. If it got any def points, it would mean that you could just as well play it in face-down def mode, which I see as a problem. I want the cards to be strong (well not bard but the others) in attack, and really weak in def, so face-down def mode is not viable but face-down atk mode is optimal. [quote] It's pretty much a BTH but destroys only and not banishes [/quote] Well, this NEGATES the summon. That is pretty big difference. [quote] It's just that a few beaters that happen to destroy stuff when flipped seems a bit too slow for a tier worthy deck, and not being able to get out their big boss without stalling doesn't help my opinion. [/quote] well, it is supposed to not be uber fast, but hopefully the trap would help slowing down the opponent as well. Adding in the protection clause to the boss would make it stay out there longer when it comes out. Maybe I should change bard to Special Summon from the graveyard, to give easier access to the boss? Maybe Special Summon in Face-Down Attack Position.... hey, and there goes a good idea (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelds9 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Irony is that I made a Set based on this mechanic about a year ago. Turned out pretty well. I think that most of the cards are reasonably balanced. COrruption may have 2800 (on your turn as well), but it loses it on the next turn... These are pretty well made! Nice ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdogPrime Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 The cards have shaped up nicely, but what really hooked me into posting was the opening statement you made about Darkness Approaches' rulings. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333234674' post='5896578'] However, the following are now "official" rulings: -A face-down Attack Position monster cannot declare an attack. -When battle(s) involving face-up Attack Position monster(s) occur, the face-down attack position monster(s) are flipped into face-up attack position at the same time as a face-down defense position monster would be flipped into face-up Defense Position: The Damage Step. Damage calculation is then applied normally, as if the face-down attack position monster(s) were in face-up attack position. -Equip spells cannot target face-down attack position monsters. [/quote] I honestly cannot believe Konami even needed to openly post these rulings, just because the monster is in face-down attack position. How big of a monkey wrench can this possibly throw into your thought processes while you are playing? Those rulings are common sense, they shouldn't even need to be stated. I really weep for the future of this game when I read stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.