Kefka vs Sephiroth

[✪RION]

[img]http://maxcdn.thedesigninspiration.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Kefka-FF6-l.jpg[/img]
[color=#ff0000][b]Kefka, also known as Lord Kefka upon ascension to Godhood, is the primary antagonist and the final boss of Final Fantasy VI. Kefka acts as Emperor Gestahl's court mage early in the game, carrying out the emperor's orders. However, behind Gestahl's back, Kefka attacks various towns and drains the espers' power meant for Imperial use. This gradual culmination in power leads Kefka to overthrow Gestahl and take control of the Warring Triad, effectively becoming the God of Magic itself.[/b][/color]

[center][size=8]vs[/size][/center]
[center][img]http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/4/4c/Sephiroth_Portrait.jpg[/img][/center]
[color=#ff0000][b]Sephiroth is the primary antagonist of Final Fantasy VII, and one of the major villains of its extended universe. A member of SOLDIER, Sephiroth was idolized for his supreme strength and considered a war hero. After misinterpreting his origins, and believing himself to be the only remaining survivor of the Ancients, or "Cetra", Sephiroth enacts a vendetta against mankind, with the ultimate goal of becoming a god and controlling the Planet. Many of the events in Final Fantasy VII are underlined by Cloud Strife and his friends trying to locate Sephiroth in order to make sense of unresolved questions laid forth early in the game.[/b][/color]

[color=#ff0000][b]So who's more badass, more awesome,way cooler, stronger and can beat the crap out of the other? [/b][/color]

[color=#ff0000][b]So comment below, let me know[/b][/color]

[Just Crouton]

[b]Kefka.[/b] He succeeded in becoming a God and controlling the planet. Also, he spend more on-screen time doing evil things and less time trying to look threatening and even engages the heroes in battle multiple times (around 3) prior to becoming a God. Most importantly, he's one of the better villains in the series for the fact that before godhood, he was regularly committing horrible crimes, and the game never forgets to show us why he's the villain and why we keep playing and want him dead. He's a far evil person, and that's a plus for a main villain.

[Expelsword]

[quote name='God Machismo!!!!!' timestamp='1341416505' post='5967183']
[b]Kefka.[/b] He succeeded in becoming a God and controlling the planet. Also, he spend more on-screen time doing evil things and less time trying to look threatening and even engages the heroes in battle multiple times (around 3) prior to becoming a God. Most importantly, he's one of the better villains in the series for the fact that before godhood, he was regularly committing horrible crimes, and the game never forgets to show us why he's the villain and why we keep playing and want him dead. He's a far evil person, and that's a plus for a main villain.
[/quote]

Sephiroth had merged with the Lifestream, he pretty much became a god too. I don't remember all the things Kefka did, but I think poisoning a town isn't as bad as murdering everyone personally. And I think the reason that you don't fight Sephiroth throughout the game is that base Sephiroth is way stronger than base Kefka and he would wreck the party (see Cloud's flashback).

[.:Blu:.]

Sephiroth by his mere impact and presence alone. There is a reason why he is so highly popular and don't say people like him because everybody else liked him. No. He is popular because everybody sees something appealing about him, more so than Kefka. Plus that sword, have you seen that sword???

[Ｄｈａｒｃ]

Kefka. Why?[list]
[*]Badass evil godhood.
[*]Was more of a character than Sephiroth; more personality, and there was more direct conflict within the "Present.
[*]He's voiced by Dave Wittenberg in Dissida.
[*]He's voiced by Dave Wittenberg in Dissidia 012.
[/list]
Also, Sephiroth's sword is just overkill. He's just overcompensating for his [b][size=5]*censored*[/size][/b].

[Expelsword]

[quote name='-Dharc-' timestamp='1341551474' post='5968442']
He's just overcompensating for his [b][size=5]*censored*[/size][/b].
[/quote]
I disagree. I mean, he is Mako "enhanced."

[.:Blu:.]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1341577497' post='5968522']
I disagree. I mean, he is Mako "enhanced."
[/quote]

Plus, I don't even think Kefka's got one...

[✪RION]

[quote name='.:Blu:.' timestamp='1341589775' post='5968627']
Plus, I don't even think Kefka's got one...
[/quote]

[color=#ff0000][b]I think he does..but it's not one. [/b][/color]

[color=#ff0000][b]And Pheww.. I thought nobody would know Kefka which is a good surprise to see everybody knows him. [/b][/color]

[Expelsword]

Also, Sephiroth would win, because it takes Locke 8 slashes to kill Kefka in one round at full power, but it takes Cloud ~15 against base Sephiroth.

[Ｄｈａｒｃ]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1341592663' post='5968663']
Also, Sephiroth would win, because it takes Locke 8 slashes to kill Kefka in one round at full power, but it takes Cloud ~15 against base Sephiroth.
[/quote]

That only shows how weak Cloud is. Everyone knows Zack was better than him, anyway.

[.:Blu:.]

[quote name='-Dharc-' timestamp='1341596696' post='5968697']
That only shows how weak Cloud is. Everyone knows Zack was better than him, anyway.
[/quote]

OR it shows Sephiroth is the superior villain and the more difficult to beat. And no, not everyone thinks Zack is better than Cloud, you can't speak for every person.

[Ｄｈａｒｃ]

Well, to each his own.

Honestly, I don't even have a stake in this, since I never played VI.

[Sploda]

Kefka, he has more character to him than Sephiroth does (which is about as much as a brick wall). Kefka isn't your generic pretty boy villain either. Sephiroth spent the entire game trying to get Cloud to show up so he could merge. Meanwhile Kefka spent the entire game kill people, ruining lives and becoming the god of magic. Furthermore Kefka is one of the few Final Fantasy villains who succeeds before the Heroes stop him. I mean he owns the planet, and for the heck of it decides to blow people away. Sephiroth is a momma's boy with an inferiority complex that decides to solve by killing everyone.

Who builds a castle in the middle of the desert anyway?
*looks at nearby guards*
Ahem! THERE IS SAND ON MY SHOES!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siuWZxDMGnk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siuWZxDMGnk[/url]

[Blake]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1341491574' post='5967711']
Sephiroth had merged with the Lifestream, he pretty much became a god too. I don't remember all the things Kefka did, but I think poisoning a town isn't as bad as murdering everyone personally. And I think the reason that you don't fight Sephiroth throughout the game is that base Sephiroth is way stronger than base Kefka and he would wreck the party (see Cloud's flashback).
[/quote]
You realize that Sephiroth is a huge Mary Sue, right? THAT is why he's not seen as much as Kefka.

And how is killing people with a sword more evil than poisoning them and letting them kill themselves while letting them go on? It's psychological warfare, both on the small front and large front.

[quote name='.:Blu:.' timestamp='1341551096' post='5968437']
Sephiroth by his mere impact and presence alone. There is a reason why he is so highly popular and don't say people like him because everybody else liked him. No. He is popular because everybody sees something appealing about him, more so than Kefka. Plus that sword, have you seen that sword???
[/quote]
He's popular because he's pretty and because FFVII as a whole is overhyped. The sword is as over the top as all BFS and is nothing special.

And since when is popularity an end all? Naruto is good, but it's not even close to second best like it's ranked, and Bleach has been in the top 3 for years despite declining RAPIDLY during that time. Yes, popularity is a factor, but not enough to say "Popular wins".

Impact? Presence? I was unaware that a clown yelling about sand on his boot in a desert was commonplace. Especially when his soldiers are so scared of him, that they actually clean said boots when they get sand on them.

Comparing these two is like comparing the Joker to Sosuke Aizen. The winner should be obvious, but the pretty factor gets in the way.

Also, [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siuWZxDMGnk"]dat laugh[/url].

EDIT: Dammit Creator.

[Expelsword]

I think we can at least agree that base Sephiroth roflstomps base Kefka, right?

[.:Blu:.]

First off, Kefka has more character to him? Is this a joke? Well considering Kefka's a clown... Kefka is the one-dimensional aspect of the "overpowered" antagonist with simple-minded thoughts and plan. We know way more about Sephiroth's background and story to flesh out his character. Sephiroth actually has frail human qualities which makes him more interesting and memorable as an antagonist, not to mention we get to see his corruption, Kefka is simply "Alright I'm the bad guy mwahaha *kill kill kill*". Kefka is generic in the same sense as Frieza, who is even better than Kefka because he actually, [b]completely[/b] destroyed planets and countless lives. Kefka's "kill kill kill" attitude is bland and simple, no depth to him at all.

If you want to talk about overhyped/overrated, Kefka is seriously overrated. Seriously, Kefka is really just an insane clown that got lucky. He had no big plan from the start and just improvised stuff. Of yeah so he destroyed the world, became god, and all that jazz, but he achieved it way too easily. He just stands there between a few statues and BAM! Instant god like powers free of charge! Hell, Gau or Mog could have become gods in FFVI! Destroying the earth and becoming a god is so much harder in FFVII universe (you have to go through all the world searching for the black materia, then manipulate people into bringing it to you, then the damn meteor takes like a week to arrive during which you must protect the landing location from everyone and on top of all that you have to deal with Holy protecting the planet!)

Now if you want to talk about power. Kefka, at his peak, was defeated Alexander, according to FFVI Anthology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4MucaeJX2s&feature=player_embedded#!

I would take this as canon considering it is the most recent version of FFVI to my knowledge. Meaning, Kefka, in god form, was defeated by a summon of pure holy properties. Meanwhile, a newly revived Sephiroth was seen holding back Holy from the planet itself, which without a doubt in my mind would have surpassed even the being that destroyed Kefka. Not to mention that Sephiroth, during this entire time, was fighting back Holy while also was dealing with the main party.

It took an entire planet's lifestream and Holy to stop Sephiroth's meteor from destroying the entire planet, which would have allowed Sephiroth to become a god; one that, no doubt, would surpass Kefka's power. Kefka, on the other hand, was defeated by a bunch of mortals who simply summoned a holy being. Not to mention, Kefka himself is not immortal. Once Kefka died, it was it. While Sephiroth's cells allowed him to fused with the planet and resurrect himself, probably even more than just once according to Sephiroth's quote at the end of Advent Children.

[Expelsword]

Did you copy-paste that from somewhere?
I remember reading that word for word...

[.:Blu:.]

I remembered reading from somewhere awhile back and put what I remembered. Not really copy and paste.

[Sploda]

You really don't know much about any other Final Fantasy game besides VII do you? Kefka has a pretty well described backstory if you take the time to read the text instead of looking at the pretty polygon pictures. Aside from that, Kefka's story is more linked to the plot than Sephiroth is. What, sure they say their chasing Sephiroth, only because they don't realize it's Jenova. Sephy is just like "HEY GUYS, BEEN OFF SCREEN WHOLE GAME! TIME TO BE THE FINAL BOSS!" Kefka is insane because he happens to be the first experimental Magitek Knight, which gave him magic, at the cost of sanity. What happened to Sephiroth? His mother and father decided to inject alien cells into him, haven't seen THAT before have we folks? Sephiroth with FRAIL human qualities? You mean the part where he thinks he's the son of an alien? Kefka doesn't show his frail qualities because he's MENTAL UNSTABLE.

In a sense Kefka never wanted to be the villain, it was forced upon him by the Gestahlian Empire. So man broken by a power obsessed empire is more one dimensional than the momma's boy who is pissed because he misheard something.

No big plans eh? Totally didn't poison Doma to eliminate a potential enemy to his plans. Totally didn't kill Leo without actually having that order. Couldn't possibly have brainwashed the Main Character for personal reasons. Here let's stand between the Warring Triad, totally not planned or anything. I just accidentally jump in here and overthrow the Empire and scatter my enemies to the winds.

btw, not the latest form of FFVI.

Holding back Holy is all well and good, but it isn't like he did it alone. He merged with Jenova too. Kefka aborbs the power of Magic itself, thus ensuring the death of all magical beings should he die. Pretty high price I'd say. Week long Meteor? Pfft, How about using his Magic to SUMMON Alexander and destroy anything he wants? The whole Alexander defeating him, is him destroying himself after his attempt to destroy the world kinda...well failed.

Sephiroth's Meteor? I'm pretty sure that the spell picks one at random so, I don't see how that matters. Also, Sephiroth wasn't going for godhood, he wanted to use the planet to travel to another planet where he could rebuild Jenova's race. At least get your story right before you go and defend it.

Oh, Kefka isn't immortal. No duh, he was born mortal, he knew he was going to die, kinda why he finally snapped when the Returners showed up...again! Sephiroth's JENOVA cells spread through the lifesteam. Guess what? Didn't do much good, second time around Could beat him alone, and he was out of practice.

Let's face facts. Sephiroth is a Super Mary Sue and is overhyped.

[.:Blu:.]

Don't assume things. I know plenty about other FF games but what this thread is about relates to FFVI & VII.

Sephiroth never wanted to be a god? "By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life form, a new existence. Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now. Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul." - Sephiroth. Yeah, don't criticize me for not reading dialogue or getting the story right...

Kefka is never given much of an origin or history at all over the course of FFVI, all we find out is that he received his powers through a flawed Magicite infusion that messed up his mind. Beyond that little is known about Kefka except that he's crazy, and he remains a static character throughout the game and just lingers like a bad case of herpes. The only logical fallback explanation for his diabolical plan is that he's crazy, which is an explanation that you can use for anybody from Deadpool to Hannibal Lecter. He was just sorta "there". Meanwhile, Sephiroth was well established before he was even introduced for the first time in FFVII. Kefka was "forced" to become a villain through insanity but that was about it for a backstory.

As mentioned earlier, Kefka is just sort of "there" for a good portion of FF6. Kefka does a couple of minor things that get the storyline going; such as forcing the Slave Crown on Terra and complying with Gestahl’s deception (he needed an item while Sephiroth manipulated Cloud to get the Black Materia), and poisoning Doma. Beyond these things, he doesn’t have too much direct action beyond being Emperor Gestahl’s right hand man. Even when he kills Leo, he’s mainly doing it because he's still going with a plan Gestahl set up. By the time Kefka really steps it up and we experience the full amount of insanity, the Floating Continent has already been raised and he kicks Gestahl to his death moments after betraying his Emperor. This all happens just beyond the mid way point of the game, which in my opinion is way too late to establish your villain concretely. Emperor Gestahl was pretty well established as the overlord of the whole evil regime coming up to this point and while signs of Kefka’s betrayal were evident, it was executed at far too late of a point resulting in Kefka’s takeover being a tad jarring and misplaced. Once Celes awakens in the World of Ruin, Kefka resumes his duty of sitting on his ass doing almost nothing for most of the game until you storm Kefka’s tower.

Kefka is a complete rank coward. During almost every encounter over the course of FFVI he sends some lower ranked lackeys to take the hit while he flees like a little b****. The difference between what Kefka does and Sephiroth is that Kefka willingly sends out others when he could do it himself, a villain such as Sephiroth had to send out Jenova spawns because he was locked inside a chunk of material. Hell, even when he has a confrontation with Leo (a guy who’s technically on the same side as him) he sends a doppelganger into battle and stabs Leo like a sissy. The only time Kefka actually grows a set is when he’s powered by the Warring Triad statues, which is the equivalent of me saying "I can hit a major league fastball" as I step to the plate with a 4 foot wide baseball bat with a steroid syringe hanging off my ass. Villains are supposed to be intimidating and strike fear into you, not cowardly like a comic relief. Did Lavos flee when it appeared after Zeal tried tapping into its power? f*** no, he blew Crono f***ing away for simply raising his sword. Did The Joker run like a little b**** when Batman was charging at him on the Batpod? Hell no, Joker screamed "HIT ME!". I’ll go as far as to say Seymour from Final Fantasy X was a better villain than Kefka was, at least Seymour got his hands dirty when he wanted to. Kefka is essentially a crazy version of Dalton from Chrono Trigger.

Finally, that is your opinion and not at all fact. I can also say, while not a mary sue character, Kefka is overrated and plain generic...

[Blake]

[quote name='.:Blu:.' timestamp='1341616757' post='5968880']
Don't assume things. I know plenty about other FF games but what this thread is about relates to FFVI & VII.

Kefka is never given much of an origin or history at all over the course of FFVI, all we find out is that he received his powers through a flawed Magicite infusion that messed up his mind. Beyond that little is known about Kefka except that he's crazy, and he remains a static character throughout the game and just lingers like a bad case of herpes. The only logical fallback explanation for his diabolical plan is that he's crazy, which is an explanation that you can use for anybody from Deadpool to Hannibal Lecter. He was just sorta "there". Meanwhile, Sephiroth was well established before he was even introduced for the first time in FFVII. Kefka was "forced" to become a villain through insanity but that was about it for a backstory.

As mentioned earlier, Kefka is just sort of "there" for a good portion of FF6. Kefka does a couple of minor things that get the storyline going; such as forcing the Slave Crown on Terra and complying with Gestahl’s deception (he needed an item while Sephiroth manipulated Cloud to get the Black Materia), and poisoning Doma. Beyond these things, he doesn’t have too much direct action beyond being Emperor Gestahl’s right hand man. Even when he kills Leo, he’s mainly doing it because he's still going with a plan Gestahl set up. By the time Kefka really steps it up and we experience the full amount of insanity, the Floating Continent has already been raised and he kicks Gestahl to his death moments after betraying his Emperor. This all happens just beyond the mid way point of the game, which in my opinion is way too late to establish your villain concretely. Emperor Gestahl was pretty well established as the overlord of the whole evil regime coming up to this point and while signs of Kefka’s betrayal were evident, it was executed at far too late of a point resulting in Kefka’s takeover being a tad jarring and misplaced. Once Celes awakens in the World of Ruin, Kefka resumes his duty of sitting on his ass doing almost nothing for most of the game until you storm Kefka’s tower.
[/quote]
[img]http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/a/a0/DimentioSuperPaperMario.png/200px-DimentioSuperPaperMario.png[/img]

This one picture proves all of that to be absolute and utter bullshit. Dimentio is very similar to Kefka in many ways, and he is HAILED as a Mario Villain. He's not even the main villain until the last 30 minutes to half hour of the game, at the last moment pretty much. He's as obviously traitorous as Kefka is, but betrays much later, so how on Earth is halfway through the story too late? EVERYTHING you criticize Kefka for is what made Dimentio an amazing villain.


Oh, btw, how is using Gestahl's plan as his own to move forward any different than using Hojo's experiments as a way to manipulate Cloud?

[quote name='.:Blu:.' timestamp='1341616757' post='5968880']
Kefka is a complete rank coward. During almost every encounter over the course of FFVI he sends some lower ranked lackeys to take the hit while he flees like a little b****. The difference between what Kefka does and Sephiroth is that Kefka willingly sends out others when he could do it himself, a villain such as Sephiroth had to send out Jenova spawns because he was locked inside a chunk of material. Hell, even when he has a confrontation with Leo (a guy who’s technically on the same side as him) he sends a doppelganger into battle and stabs Leo like a sissy. The only time Kefka actually grows a set is when he’s powered by the Warring Triad statues, which is the equivalent of me saying "I can hit a major league fastball" as I step to the plate with a 4 foot wide baseball bat with a steroid syringe hanging off my ass. Villains are supposed to be intimidating and strike fear into you, not cowardly like a comic relief. Did Lavos flee when it appeared after Zeal tried tapping into its power? f*** no, he blew Crono f***ing away for simply raising his sword. Did The Joker run like a little b**** when Batman was charging at him on the Batpod? Hell no, Joker screamed "HIT ME!". I’ll go as far as to say Seymour from Final Fantasy X was a better villain than Kefka was, at least Seymour got his hands dirty when he wanted to. Kefka is essentially a crazy version of Dalton from Chrono Trigger.
[/quote]
So, in your opinion, a villain that has his soldiers scared of him when he has sands on his boot in a desert, constantly shows his psychotic intent by wanting to set fire to something that bores him, and poisoning a village while saying "Screw my men" isn't disturbing? I mean, the Joker was a daredevil, sure, but how sheltered do you have to be that thinking "low brow" tactics aren't villain enough? I find a villain that's willing to cheat, backstab, and do anything for his plan FAR more menacing than "I'm stronger than you haha." Do you KNOW how cliche a strong villain is?

Seymour is as much a villain as a chicken egg can be made into a turkey sandwich.


[quote name='.:Blu:.' timestamp='1341616757' post='5968880']
Finally, that is your opinion and not at all fact. I can also say, while not a mary sue character, Kefka is overrated and plain generic...
[/quote]
Y'know, I'm gonna use the words Squeenix gave to Kefka to strike this down.

"[Sephiroth is] Just another sadist with a god complex. Like THAT'S anything special!"

Sephiroth is a Sue. That's pretty much fact. How is I CAN HOLD OFF HOLY AND FIGHT AND REGENERATE not Sue? Hell, he's never even revealed all his power according to Word of God. That screams Sue, considering what we have seen.

Also, what makes Sephy even more sad is he's had at least 5 sources of character development (tell me if I missed some, cause I didn't count non-canon like Kingdom Hearts) to Kefka's 2, and yet, he's still comparable in this aspect. Sephiroth is not a well developed character, at all. The most development he got was "AM I REALLY ME?!" suicide in 012, which became a source of Mary Sue knowledge.

Think about how ludicrous 5+ Sources of development against 2 is, then realize how badly developed, built, etc. Sephiroth is. He's, apparently, comparable to Kefka in development in over double the time at least.

[.:Blu:.]

I could go on arguing but now it seems pointless. It's clear that, no matter what, opinions on who is the better villain won't change for either party. I don't exactly win anything if I continue either. So, I have my opinions, you have yours. The end.

[✪RION]

[quote name='.:Blu:.' timestamp='1341611185' post='5968822']
If you want to talk about overhyped/overrated, Kefka is seriously overrated. Seriously, Kefka is really just an insane clown that got lucky. He had no big plan from the start and just improvised stuff. Of yeah so he destroyed the world, became god, and all that jazz, but he achieved it way too easily. He just stands there between a few statues and BAM! Instant god like powers free of charge! Hell, Gau or Mog could have become gods in FFVI! Destroying the earth and becoming a god is so much harder in FFVII universe (you have to go through all the world searching for the black materia, then manipulate people into bringing it to you, then the damn meteor takes like a week to arrive during which you must protect the landing location from everyone and on top of all that you have to deal with Holy protecting the planet!)
[/quote]

[color=#ff0000][b]How can Kefka be more overrated/over hype than Sephiroth when most people didn't play FFVI doesn't know his existence but anyone who haven't play FFVII still knows or even acknowledge the existence Sephiroth? That the reason why I was kinda surprised that a number of people here knows Kefka as I initially thought this thread would be filled with Sephiroth's fan boys.[/b][/color]

[Thar]

Emperor wins.
But I think Kefka is better, mainly because he has no real reason to be evil. He just enjoys it, and he destroys worlds for lulz.
That's what I like. Anything beyond logic or reason wins my vote, except for religion.

[Shradow]

Pfft, Garland would knock them both down.