Gladiator Beast Revamp!

[thekazu4u]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/e7JMM.jpg[/img]
Target "Gladiator Beast" monster cannot be destroyed by battle or opponent's card effects this turn, but is destroyed during the End Phase.

In other words, its a gladiator beast specific uber-waboku, that forces you to tag out or lose it. They really need one of these.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/iQr3C.jpg[/img]
When this card is Special Summoned by the effect of a "Gladiator Beast" monster: You can return 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your hand to your deck to return 1 Trap Card from your Graveyard to your Hand. At the end of the Battle Phase, if this card attacked or was attacked: You can shuffle it into the Deck; Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck, except "Gladiator Beast Octavion".

This is similar to Equeste, except where you can get any trap, not just Gladiator Beast ones, but it costs 1 monster. Also it is a nice beatstick.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/hQiUl.jpg[/img]

2 "Gladiator Beast" Monsters
This card can only be Special Summoned from your Extra Deck by returning the above cards you control to the Deck. (You do not use "Polymerization".) During either players turn: You can return this card to the Extra Deck: Special Summon 2 "Gladiator Beast" monsters from your deck, other than this card's Fusion Material Monsters.

This card makes Darius good again. Basically, Darius is an honest +1 when used with this card, plus utility. Can't go wrong there.

Your thoughts?

[Synchronized]

* The first one is good, but it's pretty much the same thing as Forbidden Lance, except not quite as good, since Lance can more often than not do everything this would do and more.

* The second one can Special Summon itself (since you said "except Bestiari" only), so I'm not sure I like that loop-ability there even if it costs a card in the hand to use. You can continue to re-use a specific Trap. I don't know of a loop off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone would figure one out easily.

* The third one is good; it's balanced by the low ATK. Having this an Essedarii would cover both ends of the spectrum, so you're good there. That said, I'm not sure how I like the invincibility effect. What I mean by that is the fact that you can return it to the Extra during either player's turn, so you can chain it to pretty much anything. Still, while that's just bad card design in a sense (because of the pluses it generates, while I'd argue something like Wind-Up Rabbit is quite balanced), it's not broken and it would definitely boost the Deck.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Neo Galaxy' timestamp='1342308541' post='5978289']
* The first one is good, but it's pretty much the same thing as Forbidden Lance, except not quite as good, since Lance can more often than not do everything this would do and more.

* The second one can Special Summon itself (since you said "except Bestiari" only), so I'm not sure I like that loop-ability there even if it costs a card in the hand to use. You can continue to re-use a specific Trap. I don't know of a loop off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone would figure one out easily.

* The third one is good; it's balanced by the low ATK. Having this an Essedarii would cover both ends of the spectrum, so you're good there. That said, I'm not sure how I like the invincibility effect. What I mean by that is the fact that you can return it to the Extra during either player's turn, so you can chain it to pretty much anything. Still, while that's just bad card design in a sense (because of the pluses it generates, while I'd argue something like Wind-Up Rabbit is quite balanced), it's not broken and it would definitely boost the Deck.
[/quote]

Octavion cannot summon itself, that was just an error in the lore copying. If you look on the actual card image, it doesn't say that. I am going to fix the lore though. As for the first one being a weaker forbidden lance, I say no. First off, forbidden lance lowers the ATK. This doesn't. Secondly, this has "gladiator beast" in name, that doesn't, so this can be reclaimed by Equeste. Finally, this protects it from battle as well. Seems like a forbidden lance and waboku combined, except even better.

As for invincibility, I was worried about that as well. What do you think? I just thought that Gladiator Beasts do need something special to carry themselves, and this could be just it.

[Synchronized]

My bad, I didn't read the actual card, so I can see where I messed up there. No worries.

As for the Spell, I realize that it can be reclaimed by Equeste and whatnot, but I'm still going to argue that Lance is better. Lance covers the battle part because most of the Gladiator Beast monsters range from 1500-2100 anyway, so your opponent is going to need something with 2100 ATK or more to run it over, which isn't exactly common, especially in today's game. In addition, Lance offers protection of all kinds from Spells/Traps, not just destruction, meaning it's a very versatile tool. I could suggest making your card very similar to Lance but keeping "Gladiator Beast" in the title, because then it's just a much more useful card that offers some support to the Deck.

I don't think the Fusion being "invincible", which was a poor word choice on my part since it doesn't automatically return to the field like Wind-Up Rabbit does, is actually not a problem. The fact of the matter is, you're still giving up 2 monsters for the chance of bringing this out and utilizing the effects of the Gladiator Beasts in the Deck. I could suggest adding a restriction that the Summoned monster(s) can't attack during the turn they're brought out, because at least that would require you to do some more skillful play as opposed to just swarming, activating, and attacking.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Neo Galaxy' timestamp='1342311322' post='5978335']
My bad, I didn't read the actual card, so I can see where I messed up there. No worries.

As for the Spell, I realize that it can be reclaimed by Equeste and whatnot, but I'm still going to argue that Lance is better. Lance covers the battle part because most of the Gladiator Beast monsters range from 1500-2100 anyway, so your opponent is going to need something with 2100 ATK or more to run it over, which isn't exactly common, especially in today's game. In addition, Lance offers protection of all kinds from Spells/Traps, not just destruction, meaning it's a very versatile tool. I could suggest making your card very similar to Lance but keeping "Gladiator Beast" in the title, because then it's just a much more useful card that offers some support to the Deck.

I don't think the Fusion being "invincible", which was a poor word choice on my part since it doesn't automatically return to the field like Wind-Up Rabbit does, is actually not a problem. The fact of the matter is, you're still giving up 2 monsters for the chance of bringing this out and utilizing the effects of the Gladiator Beasts in the Deck. I could suggest adding a restriction that the Summoned monster(s) can't attack during the turn they're brought out, because at least that would require you to do some more skillful play as opposed to just swarming, activating, and attacking.
[/quote]
As for your first point, I think I am going to leave the quick play alone, just because being able to kill something with it as well seems too powerful. The point of the card was to be deffensive, not offensive, and to get out free tag outs. That is currently what it is doing. Making it more like lance would just make it killable if they somehow attacked it AND bashed it with a spell in the same turn, and could also result in actual plusses from the card (ignoring even the gladiator beast tagout) which I don't really want happening. Its supposed to be a "free" tag out, not a monster killer. Thats why its "armor." We have indomitable gladiator beast for the other scenario.

As for your second point, I think you are correct. Not exactly sure how I am going to stop swarm, but I am thinking about it. Particularly worried about darius.

[Synchronized]

Gladiator Beasts are so irrelevant that I don't think making it similar to Lance would actually hurt them much. In fact, I'm pretty sure it might actually boost the consistency of the Deck and make them more playable, whereas running something like Waboku is slow and something Gladiator Beasts don't use often. Either way, I'll respect your choice to keep it as is. It's good, anyway. ^^;