Absolute Light, A deck based on recovery

[thegreatmightypoo]

 

It doesn't. I said that it would need a major overhaul to become meta. This Deck doesn't need to be meta, but even for it to be casual it would need to be improved a lot anyways.

You're judging a deck you haven't even seen yet based on two cards. The idea could work if the deck was centered around it.

 

So, three out of like 20. Yeah, that's a little over one seventh of the way there. Plus, stall cards, boring, that stuff.

First of all, obviously there would be more cards with similar effects. I said that they wouldn't ALL have that effect, but some would. And stall is only boring to play against if you're playing a typical deck. Stall vs Stall is really fun, especially chain burn vs chain burn or something like that.

 

And you're also trying to get rid of the OP's intended gimmick. The OP wanted an archetype that healed.

I got rid of it because I saw something I thought would be more interesting. Also his entire deck was so broken I figured it would be best to do it all over than salvage what he made. Heal in general just doesn't work, unless you have simochi or something, but that's "healing" the opponent, not yourself. Unless you would build around gaining life points until a certain amount, then you win, but the way op did it was 25,000, which is pretty much impossible.

 

Spell/Trap immunity just means your opponent needs to 101/Castel it. JD can wipe out the field and then swing for 3k, and that's ignoring the possibility of there being other JDs in your hand.

Fair enough, I was afraid that making it basically invincible except by battle would make it broken though.

 

The thing with Endless is that it's really easy to toss onto the field, and early-game it has tons of ATK. It's not worth it because Pyramid Turtle isn't always going to die by battle, and by being Level 5 you can't just Normal Summon it and would need Zombie Master/Foolish to dump it before it could even do anything otherwise. LOTS of monsters don't have Spell/Trap protection, and they're still good. Like Shaddoll Construct. It dies to Sakuretsu, but it's still good in its Deck (and its Deck is good, despite only one of their monsters actually being immune to Sakuretsu due to an anti-destruction clause). In contrast, Bujins, who can apply counters to Sakuretsu for any of their Beast-Warriors by dumping Hare/Turtle in the Grave aren't as good as Shaddolls. Losing to backrow doesn't automatically make things bad.

Losing to back row doesn't make it bad, my point was that that is why it isn't used all the time. It doesn't have any protection against anything, and it's really only that good early game, yet it can only be special summoned late game and when you're close to losing.  Imagine if it DID have spell/trap protection. Get a way to normal summon it, then deal a free 4000 damage early game. Now THAT would be used a lot.

 

Even if they could do it fast, 20 monsters is a lot. They could only Summon that boss one time per duel.

That's kind of the point. You sac your whole deck to summon something that's basically invincible. If it goes you lose, but if you summon it, you're probably going to win. It would be a high risk high reward stall deck.

 

But the Life Gain is what the OP wants, and it's not too unreasonable to have an archetype that can heal

If it's not the only thing, then yes. Maybe a mediumly strong offensive deck that can heal a bit with some stall. I don't think that's nearly as interesting a concept, but ok.

 

What I'm saying is that an archetype that stalls and/or heals is boring to play against, including what you're suggesting.

Let's be real though; if you're playing stall, and you care about how much fun the other player is having, you aren't playing stall right. Most of the fun of stall comes with the suffering of the opponent. I had a deck once involving toll, gravekeeper's servant, chain energy and cards like that, that made it so that the opponent had to pay to do anything, to the point where they would just start their turn, and then immediately end their turn, because they couldn't do anything. I almost never won, but it was so satisfying getting it to turn 30 before they won. I take great pride in that.

 

but but healing should not be the only thing it does well.

I totally agree with that.

 

 

I think we've derailed this enough. If you really want healing, then you shouldn't take my suggestion.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

You're judging a deck you haven't even seen yet based on two cards. The idea could work if the deck was centered around it.

I'm talking about the OP's archetype. That is what needed to be vastly improved.

First of all, obviously there would be more cards with similar effects. I said that they wouldn't ALL have that effect, but some would. And stall is only boring to play against if you're playing a typical deck. Stall vs Stall is really fun, especially chain burn vs chain burn or something like that.

Well, a Battle Fader that ends up getting three cards into your Graveyard is pretty good for the goal of getting so many cards in the Grave, but when the goal is 20, nothing short of something broke and/or stupid would help you get the boss out fast enough.

As for the stall vs. stall, well, if not interacting with your opponent counts as fun. It doesn't seem like it'd be as much fun as a normal game.

I got rid of it because I saw something I thought would be more interesting. Also his entire deck was so broken I figured it would be best to do it all over than salvage what he made. Heal in general just doesn't work, unless you have simochi or something, but that's "healing" the opponent, not yourself. Unless you would build around gaining life points until a certain amount, then you win, but the way op did it was 25,000, which is pretty much impossible.

The healing doesn't need to be the main point. It would be like Caliburn in Noble Knights, that is, a really minor heal that might end up making a difference. Obviously, if the archetype's gimmick would be to heal, it would have to do better than that, but pure heal would be terrible, yes, that's why the archetype the OP posted needs speed/consistency/easier access to bosses.

Random nitpick: His entire Deck wasn't even broken, just a few cards were. It was more that a few of the cards were just a little... dumb. The archetype as a whole is very slow, weak, and inconsistent. Compared to pretty much any Deck that can still function even a little bit right now, you won't be able to heal very much unless you're really lucky.

Fair enough, I was afraid that making it basically invincible except by battle would make it broken though.

When you need to lose so many monsters for it, it wouldn't really be that broken. Being nigh-invincible is really annoying and might still look broken, but if you find that to be the case you can always nerf the card and its requirements. Generally, if a card has seriously high extremes in anything, something is wrong with the card. Final Destiny and Elemental Burst cost too much, Armityle needs you to jump through way too many hoops, etc. Then there's Vennominaga, who also needs tons of hoops to jump through, but when you Summon it, its immunity to pretty much everything your opponent can do makes it really annoying. It isn't broken, it's just that it's really hard to win when you are staring it down. That's what you probably should aim to avoid.

Losing to back row doesn't make it bad, my point was that that is why it isn't used all the time. It doesn't have any protection against anything, and it's really only that good early game, yet it can only be special summoned late game and when you're close to losing.  Imagine if it DID have spell/trap protection. Get a way to normal summon it, then deal a free 4000 damage early game. Now THAT would be used a lot.

Not really. Zombies have plenty of other power cards (Zombie Master, the Gogogo combo, and so on) that can get bosses out that would have your opponent's backrow directed at them. If it had Spell/Trap protection, it would be unfair because you could beat your opponent senseless with 4k ATK and back it up with BTS (and maybe Skill Prisoner if you want to dedicate way too much space for it). The Endless Decay point is that 4k ATK monsters aren't so sacred anymore to the point where they need the huge banishment cost you were going to assign to the main boss monster, even with backrow protection.

That's kind of the point. You sac your whole deck to summon something that's basically invincible. If it goes you lose, but if you summon it, you're probably going to win. It would be a high risk high reward stall deck.

No, really, monster-based removal is abundant enough to the point where there are quite a few two-card combos that can easily get rid of it. Backing it up with BTS would be nice, like with the hypothetical Endless Decay w/ Spell/Trap immunity thing, but the difference is that Endless Decay is still really, really, really easy to get out. This is not, and you have nothing else at all to do offensively that doesn't include your boss. Well, you could run Assault Halberd and/or Kagetokage to fling Rank 4s out, depending on the Level of the archetype's monsters, but that's not much.

Let's be real though; if you're playing stall, and you care about how much fun the other player is having, you aren't playing stall right. Most of the fun of stall comes with the suffering of the opponent. I had a deck once involving toll, gravekeeper's servant, chain energy and cards like that, that made it so that the opponent had to pay to do anything, to the point where they would just start their turn, and then immediately end their turn, because they couldn't do anything. I almost never won, but it was so satisfying getting it to turn 30 before they won. I take great pride in that.

As a player, no, you really shouldn't focus on that unless you're trying to get someone interested in the game or something. But you/the OP/the current leader of India/whoever is designing the actual archetype, so it's different. Someone not having fun against a Deck you play is not exactly the same thing as someone not having fun against the archetype you've created. Plus, there's a lot of players who get bored by playing a stall Deck, in addition to playing against one. Like Final Countdown. It's fun to every now and then just not let your opponent have a Battle Phase for many consecutive turns, but really, that's like the only thing they even do. Well, that and draw a little and activate their wincon.

I totally agree with that.
 
 
I think we've derailed this enough. If you really want healing, then you shouldn't take my suggestion.

Eh, I was trying to help the OP improve his idea to something vastly better, and try to get closer to a healing Deck that would actually be interactive enough to not become another "eh stall Deck." Especially since healing in stall is outright worse than no-attacking-this-turn-or-any-for-that-matter stall like Final Countdown.

[thegreatmightypoo]

I don't really feel like quote spamming so I'll just make a general response.

 

I think the problem with creating archetypes is that you can't play with them/against them, so you can't see how well they'll do in context with the meta. I'll admit that's something I struggle with. Part of that is becasue I haven't really played in a while, part of it is because I find decks that win in the traditional fashion to be boring.  I generally just try to create neat ideas instead of trying to make something that would actually work. If it works it works, if it doesn't eh whatever I'll try again next time. I thought sacing the deck for one card was kinda cool so I suggested it. I think it could probably work still I think. The 25-20 card number was just a random estimate, it wasn't set in stone. It could be 10 or 15 or 14 or whatever works.

 

The problems I saw with the OP's deck were

A. It was disorganized and scattered. There weren't any combos or themes to it other than gaining life points.

B. It was rather boring. The effects were generic and bland.

So I saw potential in the Dreamer card and suggested an idea around that. I thought it would be a lot more interesting to build around that card than to just have a bunch of powerful cards and life gain.

 

Regardless, thank you for the feedback, I always want to learn and get better, though I feel kinda dirty that I learned more than the OP did (though to be fair, he spent more time defending his deck than listening to feedback).

[GoldenTide]

Ok, I'm gonna try to settle your arguments:

First off, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this archtype is HUGE! Not every card is nessasarry. You don't have to play every card. It's dang near impossible

Dreamer is an OPTIONAL boss (I would run the two Rituals personally) Just trying to add diversity here

It's called Absolute LIGHT! Of course its gonna screw around with Dark decks! As for Mermaid, I made that during my hatred of Fire Fists, so I agree it's kind of unfair

Agents are my favorite archtype, so you can easily find references to that archtype in AL

Some are completely idiotic, Moonlust is just a standered beatstick,it's MEANT to be that way! There is no such thing as a perfect archtype, created or otherwise

I think Tribute Summoning is a dead art. With this archtype, it becomes alive again!

I have another Archtype coming based completely on the roll of the dice, Maybe then you'd be satisfied

 

[thegreatmightypoo]

First of all, making unnecessary cards is not a good thing. You generally want to have every card have a purpose. That's why I really don't like super large archetypes. I'm not sure what Dreamer being optional means. It's still there and it's still overpowered. Where are you getting the fact that it screws around with dark decks from? I don't think anyone complained about that, at least I certainly didn't. And while no, nothing is perfect, when there is a flaw in a deck you don't just go "Well it's imperfect so I won't change it", you fix it. That's how you get better.

 

I think you're missing the point though. The point isn't that it's extremely overpowered (though some cards very much are), it's the fact that it's really boring. It's just bland effects with life gain. There's really nothing else to it. That's why we've been arguing for the past few posts, because we're trying to suggest ways to spice up your deck and make it at least somewhat interesting.

[GoldenTide]

First of all, making unnecessary cards is not a good thing. You generally want to have every card have a purpose. That's why I really don't like super large archetypes. I'm not sure what Dreamer being optional means. It's still there and it's still overpowered. Where are you getting the fact that it screws around with dark decks from? I don't think anyone complained about that, at least I certainly didn't. And while no, nothing is perfect, when there is a flaw in a deck you don't just go "Well it's imperfect so I won't change it", you fix it. That's how you get better.

 

I think you're missing the point though. The point isn't that it's extremely overpowered (though some cards very much are), it's the fact that it's really boring. It's just bland effects with life gain. There's really nothing else to it. That's why we've been arguing for the past few posts, because we're trying to suggest ways to spice up your deck and make it at least somewhat interesting.

I wanted to make an archtype solely based on recovery, and to be quite honest, I'm counting this as a success. Sure it's generic to the point of dull. It's my first major archtype. Sue me, I'll get better, maybe...Absolute Light is my first, I'm always going to defend it.

[thegreatmightypoo]

I'm sure you will get better, it takes practice. I wouldn't really call this a success, but you can consider it whatever you want. I'm sure you're next archetype will be better though.

[GoldenTide]

I think you guys are using the wrong word. This isn't a BAD archtype per se. It's an UNGRACEFUL archtype.

I believe that a GOOD archtype can be made where its main mechanic is life point gain. I will rehash and rebrand this archtype, to feature combos and the like.
 

I'm thinking of calling it "The Purest"