The Command Tower (EDH Hangout)

[bury the year]

Can't today, at least as things stand. ):

[Rodrigo]

I'm up for the game at any time now, guys.

[CLG Klavier]

Me kinda no, but if we got at least one more person, I could play I guess.

[Poc]

Counter spells are usually traps for newer players in EDH, they have their uses, like stopping people from combing off or using apocalypse or some board wipe like that. Most of the time, people just counter the first spell that gets played whether it's a threat or not leaving the other guy to combo off unanswered.

Also what program are you guys playing on?

[Rodrigo]

Counter spells are usually traps for newer players in EDH, they have their uses, like stopping people from combing off or using apocalypse or some board wipe like that. Most of the time, people just counter the first spell that gets played whether it's a threat or not leaving the other guy to combo off unanswered.

Also what program are you guys playing on?

 

We play on Cockatrice but we didn't get enough people yet.

[Poc]

I gotta reinstall cockatrice but I would be down to play some games.

[Gokai-Red]

I need an installer for that thing

[Rodrigo]

www.woogerworks.com

[Gokai-Red]

Thank you very much...after testing a little I've come to realise that I can use Intet's effect properly on cockatrice...such a shame
XD

[Rodrigo]

Thank you very much...after testing a little I've come to realise that I can use Intet's effect properly on cockatrice...such a shame
XD

 

What do you mean?

[bury the year]

What do you mean?

I'm guessing it's that exiling cards facedown without revealing them can be difficult. :/

[Gokai-Red]

I'm guessing it's that exiling cards facedown without revealing them can be difficult. :/

Exactly

[Rodrigo]

I'm guessing it's that exiling cards facedown without revealing them can be difficult. :/

 

Just hold Shift while you drag the card to the field. Keep it away from your permanents and it should be fine.

[Gokai-Red]

Just hold Shift while you drag the card to the field. Keep it away from your permanents and it should be fine.

Oh Cool will try that

[Alice Moonflowyr]

When it comes to Counterspells, I only run the really good ones. Render Silent, Voidslime, Counterflux, Time Stop, Mindbreak Trap, Counterspell, etc.

[Simping For Hina]

When it comes to Counterspells, I only run the really good ones. Render Silent, Voidslime, Counterflux, Time Stop, Mindbreak Trap, Counterspell, etc.

Force of Will? Remand? Memory Lapse? Cryptic Command? Hinder? Spell Crumble? Desertion? Grip of Amnesia? Foil? Suffocating Blast? Draining Whelk? Arcane Denial? Rewind? Mystic Snake? Glen Elendra Archmage? Flusterstorm? 

 

Et cetera is annoying when you mentioned subpar cards.

 

Also, MANA DRAIN, FOLKS!

[Alice Moonflowyr]

They aren't subpar. Render Silent basically kills off a lot of decks *cough*Maelstrom*cough*, Voidslime is a great catchall, Counterflux is a great card versus those pesky blue decks, Time Stop is another great catchall, Mindbreak Trap also hits a pretty decent amount of stuff, and Counterspell is Counterspell.

 

Speaking of subpar cards, Rewind and Desertion are pretty meh. I prefer my counters to be 3 cmc or less, or be like Mindbreak Trap/Force and have an alternate cost.

Or be Cryptic Command and just be too stupidly good.

[Rodrigo]

They aren't subpar. Render Silent basically kills off a lot of decks *cough*Maelstrom*cough*, Voidslime is a great catchall, Counterflux is a great card versus those pesky blue decks, Time Stop is another great catchall, Mindbreak Trap also hits a pretty decent amount of stuff, and Counterspell is Counterspell.

 

Speaking of subpar cards, Rewind and Desertion are pretty meh. I prefer my counters to be 3 cmc or less, or be like Mindbreak Trap/Force and have an alternate cost.

Or be Cryptic Command and just be too stupidly good.

 

Desertion isn't "meh". It's one of the best counterspells in Commander. Not letting your opponent cast his/her commander AND getting it for yourself is amazing.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

It's a FIVE CMC with UU. In most commander decks you're mostly going to want to be doing something else on T5 rather than leaving mana up for a counterspell. And if you get it later in the game, most people have already cast their Commander at that point.

 

Yes, you MIGHT hit their Commander with it early enough. But it just doesn't happen often enough and I'd much rather use the mana to further my win conditions. And plus, I would also MUCH rather Spell Crumple or Hinder their Commander so they cant just Murder the thing and get it back anyway.

[Gokai-Red]

Force of Will? Remand? Memory Lapse? Cryptic Command? Hinder? Spell Crumble? Desertion? Grip of Amnesia? Foil? Suffocating Blast? Draining Whelk? Arcane Denial? Rewind? Mystic Snake? Glen Elendra Archmage? Flusterstorm? 
 
Et cetera is annoying when you mentioned subpar cards.
 
Also, MANA DRAIN, FOLKS!

Well good point althought some of those cost a kidnie too but...XD

[Simping For Hina]

They aren't subpar. Render Silent basically kills off a lot of decks *cough*Maelstrom*cough*, Voidslime is a great catchall, Counterflux is a great card versus those pesky blue decks, Time Stop is another great catchall, Mindbreak Trap also hits a pretty decent amount of stuff, and Counterspell is Counterspell.

 

Speaking of subpar cards, Rewind and Desertion are pretty meh. I prefer my counters to be 3 cmc or less, or be like Mindbreak Trap/Force and have an alternate cost.

Or be Cryptic Command and just be too stupidly good.

Render Silent is too specific. It is a nice card, but rightly outclassed. Mindbreak Trap and Time Stop are better at doing the job against Maelstrom Wanderer anyways. Voidslime is played to tempo things, not to catch-all. When you're using it as a catch-all, you're already behind anyways. Counterflux is nothing compared to Flusterstorm or Mindbreak Trap. Counterspell is subpar when Hinder and Spell Crumble exist. 

 

Rewind is hilarious and amazing in blue decks that stall the game, so that Cryptic Command is just amazing. Desertion is one of the best counter spells in EDH. Alternate Costs mean nothing if you're using counterspells unless you're caring about Force of Will when you're a combo deck. Even combo decks utilize Counterspells, even though they are already amazing against Control decks. 

 

Cards are subpar when there are cards that do their job and more. Mana Cost isn't as exhausting in EDH as it is in Constructed, and people like to get more out of a spell than just countering a single spell. 

[Gokai-Red]

Ups Double Post Ignore this one XD

[Simping For Hina]

Well good point althought some of those cost a kidnie too but...XD

That's fine. 

[Alice Moonflowyr]

You make a good point.

 

But actually when it comes to Wanderer, Render Silent is better than Mindbreak because of how the Cascades work. When you cast MW the stack immediately looks like Cascade>Cascade>MW. Priority is passed around, and if no one responds then the first Cascade resolves, and you locate a spell, lets say Sylvan Library. Now the stack looks like Sylvan Library>Cascade>Maelstrom Wanderer. Priority is passed around, and if no one chooses to respond, Library resolves and hits the field. Then the second Cascade happens and you do it again.

 

Mindbreak Trap can only be cast for free after the second Cascade locates a spell, and by then the first Cascade has already resolved its spell. And even if you cast it after the first Cascade locates a spell, the second Cascade trigger is still on the stack. So no matter what, Mindbreak is only hitting 2 spells, one Cascade and Maelstrom.

 

Render Silent is different. As soon as the stack looks like Cascade>Cascade>Maelstrom Wanderer, priority is passed around. If someone responds by casting Render Silent on Wanderer, the stack then looks like Render Silent>Cascade>Cascade>Maelstrom Wanderer. Render Silent resolves and counters Maelstrom, causing me to be unable to cast spells until the end of my turn. Then the Cascades go off and locate spells, but I cannot cast them.

 

So everything you said was pretty much correct except the bit about Mindbreak Trap being better against MW than Render.

[Simping For Hina]

So it still does what is required. Stopping Maelstrom and another Cascade card does hinder Maelstrom decks a lot, anyways. It is still needed in more situations than Render Silent will ever be, so it is still a proper choice in the long run.