Jump to content

So, There's Supposed to be an Announcement from the Grand Jury Tonight


Dad

Recommended Posts

Regarding Ferguson.  People are boarding up their homes, stocking up on water, canned goods, and more for fear of an even bigger riot than before.  Honestly, I hope it doesn't come to that, but I'll be updating this as the news arrives.  On topic:

 

UPDATE:  There will be no indictment in the Ferguson case.

 

Satisfying the masses and moral decision making.  Go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still no riot.

 

I am disappointed in that community.

 

There's no winner here.  Brown is dead and Wilson will be hated by a large part of the community for possibly the rest of his life.  This type of attitude for rioting makes things worse for everyone.  Enough lives have been lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know what happened, if Brown actually attacked the officer or not.  Regardless, the way the aftermath was handled shed some light on some problems with the Ferguson police force.  

 

Rioting will definitely not help anything, but tear gas is not going to dissuade people from rioting.  You're just feeding their fear. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no winner here.  Brown is dead and Wilson will be hated by a large part of the community for possibly the rest of his life.  This type of attitude for rioting makes things worse for everyone.  Enough lives have been lost.

I had just heard about a police car tht was flipped and burned in Ferguson.

The excuse for such was "the cops put it there to make us destroy it, that's fucked up so we destroyed it."

And that Brown's step-father yelled "burn this shit down" after the decision/

That destroyed my faith in humanity.

This restored mine.

I'm just glad it's over, and wish people used their heads instead of hive mind more often.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rioting is bad don't be stupid. Riots just make things worse in most cases.

Plus if the grand jury says there's not enough evidence...well I mean you can't indict someone in that case.

 

You don't need evidence for an indictment (Well, you do, but they are asking for significantly more than what is required). Saying "there isn't enough evidence" is just an excuse.

 

like literally, you only need to answer 2 questions for an indictment.

 

Did a crime occur? y/n

Is person in question involved with said crime? y/n

 

So long as the evidence points towards that person being involved in the crime, that is ALL you need for an indictment, the amount of it doesn't matter. The rest is debated during the actual trial and is delved into further detail there. It is not the Grand Jury's duty to determine if he's guilty or not. It is their job however, to determine if it goes to trial or not, and it should not have taken 10 days to come to such a decision

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need evidence for an indictment. Saying "there isn't enough evidence" is just an excuse.

 

like literally, you only need to answer 2 questions for an indictment.

 

Did a crime occur? y/n

Is person in question involved with said crime? y/n

 

So long as the evidence points towards that person being involved in the crime, that is ALL you need for an indictment, the amount of it doesn't matter. The rest is debated during the actual trial and is delved into further detail there.

That's not true...like...at all. That would be a terrible way to go about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Why is this important?

 

Black man takes cigs from a store and is responded with being shot to death and after 100 days of footage and protests and riots and photos and tweets and eyewitness accounts of the actual murder a grand jury that included 9 white people (the amount required to make a decision) decided to not indict the cop which basically means that they didn't even think it was a crime let alone he should be charged with it. White people are literally raping women and shooting up schools and whatnot, like actual crimes, and all you hear is "his life will never be the same again" or some fucking shit meanwhile black people get shot for doing nothing wrong and they don't even get a life at all let alone a ruined one.

 

But naw it's not important go back to writing your book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay I'm going to try not to get involved in any racial shit with this because that's one of the most sensitive and tricky thing to talk about.

Especially as the above post is coming out of anger and there's no debating with that.

 

But really, I seriously hate how the media deals with these things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

But really, I seriously hate how the media deals with these things.

Slightly improved.

Media loooooooooves to be full of false information.

 

Man, after watching the video…two things:
NYT disabled comments. Great move, well done. (srsly)

And the prosecutor or whatever…he's got some guts to be able to stand there and do his job; that can't be easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Black man takes cigs from a store and is responded with being shot to death and after 100 days of footage and protests and riots and photos and tweets and eyewitness accounts of the actual murder a grand jury that included 9 white people (the amount required to make a decision) decided to not indict the cop which basically means that they didn't even think it was a crime let alone he should be charged with it. White people are literally raping women and shooting up schools and whatnot, like actual crimes, and all you hear is "his life will never be the same again" or some fucking shit meanwhile black people get shot for doing nothing wrong and they don't even get a life at all let alone a ruined one.

But naw it's not important go back to writing your book.

How fucking ignorant are you? You're no different than the trash currently looting and destroying property, if this post alone is any indication.

First off, one of the jurors said that Brown actively taunted that he was too much of a pussy to shoot him. This is actually a solid point, considering that the DA said that only those 12 jurors/those present with them knew 100% of the evidence.

90%~ of black people being murdered in the US is at the hands of other black people. White people murdering one another at a mere 70%. What makes this even worse is that:
A. This is merely statistics, and does not reflect the overwhelming numbers of BvB as opposed to WvW
B. Black crime is generally random violence, not target killing. Which means that the life being taken is likely valued even less, as it's not a crime of rage, protection of some facet of life, direct avarice, etc... it's just taking a life because they want to or it's a means to get a selfish end regardless of who gets in the way.

Hell, OP is black, and proud as far as I know, yet he's not acting like you are. Grow up, nobody owes you anything, and the fact that you're going "white people hurr" as a scapegoat just shoves your argument into the ground.

Black people are literally destroying, inciting, and looting after the verdict, and the joke is that they'd probably do it even if he WAS indicted, just to put forward the exact sentiment in your post, except in a condescending manner instead of incensed.
Because that's what the masses do. Cares to use that "white people rape and shoot up schools" point again? As if black people never, ever rape anyone.

All races are screwed up to hell and back. The difference is being above the majority of your race and trying to get along with people as people, not to stick to being "ghetto" (regardless of skin color) or too good for lower people. The issue is the quantities of these races that don't try to be better, and it's really sickening to see blanket statements that are so stupidly biased.

Yes, privilege exists, but when people are happy living off of the government, stealing, and being in the ghetto... That's their choice, because people can get out of that when they try. And at least part of this is to blame on people like LBJ, who referred to blacks as cattle to be herded for elections and kept down, but they don't want to improve themselves, and it's fucking sad. They don't want "better", they want to be "owed", and they're falling right into the trap set for them 50 years ago.

For people that claim to want equality and hate segregation, this case has hardly shown it, and the aftermath just shows the disparity between words and actions even more.

From what was said, almost all of the eyewitness accounts, if not all, were recanted, fabrications, or rumors being cycled about but we're not substantiated. There was no footage proving the crime, or something would have happened.

Even then, eyewitnesses just prove more and more to be absolutely useless in a court of law, as they are, shockingly, fallible humans. You cannot trust fallible testimony to the T, and if your case is heavily based in eyewitness testimony, it's likely not the best case there is.

And for character? He was raised by people that are in no way good character witnesses. His mother and grandmother mugged his step grandmother in broad daylight at a flea market. Why? Selling merchandise with Brown's face on it and "she didn't well enough to deserve to do that". They stole 400 some dollars and all of her merchandise, and then his mother got to board a plane the next day and go give a fucking speech in Sweden/Switzerland about him. Instead of being in jail for what she did. Yeah, really makes me want to believe he was innocent.

Who knows, maybe he was different from "burn this shit down" and a mugger... But if he was raised by that, it's very easy to assume that he would be like that when the only witnesses against such do the very things that he was supposedly too perfect to do. I could easily be wrong, but one of these is more logical to assume than the other.

And as for the earlier point of "evidence isn't required".... Yes it is?

I mean, how do you prove there was a crime without evidence? How do you go to trial without at least some form of evidence?

You don't. No prosecutor worth their stock would go into court without feeling they had an at least believable case based on the evidence, and clearly that wasn't the case here. So there was no clear cut proof a crime occurred.

I rambled a bit, and probably lost the point at times, but it's almost 3 AM and I'm dealing with a blatant racist.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that all the speculation is done on the presumption that Brown did not do anything to provoke the officer other than be a black man.  That is the point being disputed.  The argument that the officer was within his rights is based on the possibility that he did attack the officer, not that it's okay to just randomly shoot black men for no reason. 

 

All that being said, I don't fucking know what happened, you don't fucking know what happened, it's pointless for us to discuss whether there was or wasn't enough evidence to indict someone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would respectfully ask that you all not engage in riot shaming.

http://www.maskmagazine.com/the-substance-issue/struggle/step-back-with-the-riot-shaming

Especially if you are white.

Aside from the "ghetto owns 'us'" point, which I touched upon with mentioning LBJ, I disagree.

The justice system can't be reformed, but that hardly means acting like a wild animal, burning, robbing, and destroying is going to make anything better. It's just an excuse to personally line pockets because that's what the ghetto devolves into.

I know that the reform of tyranny is why we got the second amendment, but this doesn't even fall under that, with or without guns involved. It's not reforming anything, it's costing tax dollars, businesses, and livelihoods in the name of throwing a fit that just makes you look like an ass or a criminal.

Some people surely do have the best intentions at heart, but the masses have devolved from that. They're nothing but "raiders" now, and they don't have any deep meaning other than to stomp your feet and get stuff cheap.

I don't even like cops or think they're eternally in the right by any means, but that doesn't make what is currently happening an appropriate response.

Rioting is fine, but this is nothing but a cash grabbing fit. It won't be remembered, it won't change anything, it'll just let people get free TVs from Aaron's, or steal all the beer from a Walgreens. It doesn't necessarily take away from the stance, but it doesn't add to it either. And these are people that apparently lack any concept beyond themselves at times like this.

Last night, one of the looters went on about how he was an educated young man... So they should have at least put him on trial before finding him not guilty, then this could have been avoided.

So by wasting tax money (assuming he got not guilty) and merely postponing the "riot" while dragging a man's name further through the mud is what we should have done?

It's fine to protest, but this has turned into nothing but pillaging and lining your pockets while you have time, which is what almost all of these "riots" really are.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need evidence for an indictment (Well, you do, but they are asking for significantly more than what is required). Saying "there isn't enough evidence" is just an excuse.
 
like literally, you only need to answer 2 questions for an indictment.
 
Did a crime occur? y/n
Is person in question involved with said crime? y/n
 
So long as the evidence points towards that person being involved in the crime, that is ALL you need for an indictment, the amount of it doesn't matter. The rest is debated during the actual trial and is delved into further detail there. It is not the Grand Jury's duty to determine if he's guilty or not. It is their job however, to determine if it goes to trial or not, and it should not have taken 10 days to come to such a decision

Since when can people take the law into their own hands?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm seeing a lot passed around the web on the verdict of whether Brown did anything to provoke the officer. I don't feel like it's relevant. Regardless of the disputed innocence of Brown, surely it's fairly obvious whether having the right to a court case rather than being executed by gun in the street? Of course, I'm too out of American politics being British and all to get the full picture, but, I have a vague image of the Grand Jury announcements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm seeing a lot passed around the web on the verdict of whether Brown did anything to provoke the officer. I don't feel like it's relevant. Regardless of the disputed innocence of Brown, surely it's fairly obvious whether having the right to a court case rather than being executed by gun in the street? Of course, I'm too out of American politics being British and all to get the full picture, but, I have a vague image of the Grand Jury announcements.


Yeah you're just misinterpreting it. It was a question as to whether the officer was defending himself or not. The fact that you consider it an execution shows me that you may want to seek information from a different source because yours is biased.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm seeing a lot passed around the web on the verdict of whether Brown did anything to provoke the officer. I don't feel like it's relevant. Regardless of the disputed innocence of Brown, surely it's fairly obvious whether having the right to a court case rather than being executed by gun in the street? Of course, I'm too out of American politics being British and all to get the full picture, but, I have a vague image of the Grand Jury announcements.

He was shot in self-defense, or so Wilson's side goes.

And the transcript of the grand jury was released. Multiple eyewitnesses said they saw that Brown charged the officer after being told to lay down and stop resisting arrest. He was shot as he charges, and didn't fall over until he was hit in the head by one of the bullets.

As I said, eyewitness testimony is flimsy, but if one side should count then the other should as well.

From Wilson's words (the one up for indictment), he had asked the two of them to stop jay walking (petty, but whatever), and they responded aggressively to him, but he left. Soon after, he got a call that matched the two and went back to them, and that's when Brown got out of hand. Brown charged him head down after he shot through his car after Brown taunted Wilson "you're too much of a pussy to shoot me", and Brown had reached into the front of his pants, supposedly to grasp for a weapon, before he was finally shot in the head.

Take with a grain of salt, of course, just stating what's there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How f***ing ignorant are you? You're no different than the trash currently looting and destroying property, if this post alone is any indication.

First off, one of the jurors said that Brown actively taunted that he was too much of a pussy to shoot him. This is actually a solid point, considering that the DA said that only those 12 jurors/those present with them knew 100% of the evidence.

90%~ of black people being murdered in the US is at the hands of other black people. White people murdering one another at a mere 70%. What makes this even worse is that:
A. This is merely statistics, and does not reflect the overwhelming numbers of BvB as opposed to WvW
B. Black crime is generally random violence, not target killing. Which means that the life being taken is likely valued even less, as it's not a crime of rage, protection of some facet of life, direct avarice, etc... it's just taking a life because they want to or it's a means to get a selfish end regardless of who gets in the way.

Hell, OP is black, and proud as far as I know, yet he's not acting like you are. Grow up, nobody owes you anything, and the fact that you're going "white people hurr" as a scapegoat just shoves your argument into the ground.

Black people are literally destroying, inciting, and looting after the verdict, and the joke is that they'd probably do it even if he WAS indicted, just to put forward the exact sentiment in your post, except in a condescending manner instead of incensed.
Because that's what the masses do. Cares to use that "white people rape and shoot up schools" point again? As if black people never, ever rape anyone.

All races are screwed up to hell and back. The difference is being above the majority of your race and trying to get along with people as people, not to stick to being "ghetto" (regardless of skin color) or too good for lower people. The issue is the quantities of these races that don't try to be better, and it's really sickening to see blanket statements that are so stupidly biased.

Yes, privilege exists, but when people are happy living off of the government, stealing, and being in the ghetto... That's their choice, because people can get out of that when they try. And at least part of this is to blame on people like LBJ, who referred to blacks as cattle to be herded for elections and kept down, but they don't want to improve themselves, and it's f***ing sad. They don't want "better", they want to be "owed", and they're falling right into the trap set for them 50 years ago.

For people that claim to want equality and hate segregation, this case has hardly shown it, and the aftermath just shows the disparity between words and actions even more.

From what was said, almost all of the eyewitness accounts, if not all, were recanted, fabrications, or rumors being cycled about but we're not substantiated. There was no footage proving the crime, or something would have happened.

Even then, eyewitnesses just prove more and more to be absolutely useless in a court of law, as they are, shockingly, fallible humans. You cannot trust fallible testimony to the T, and if your case is heavily based in eyewitness testimony, it's likely not the best case there is.

And for character? He was raised by people that are in no way good character witnesses. His mother and grandmother mugged his step grandmother in broad daylight at a flea market. Why? Selling merchandise with Brown's face on it and "she didn't well enough to deserve to do that". They stole 400 some dollars and all of her merchandise, and then his mother got to board a plane the next day and go give a f***ing speech in Sweden/Switzerland about him. Instead of being in jail for what she did. Yeah, really makes me want to believe he was innocent.

Who knows, maybe he was different from "burn this s*** down" and a mugger... But if he was raised by that, it's very easy to assume that he would be like that when the only witnesses against such do the very things that he was supposedly too perfect to do. I could easily be wrong, but one of these is more logical to assume than the other.

And as for the earlier point of "evidence isn't required".... Yes it is?

I mean, how do you prove there was a crime without evidence? How do you go to trial without at least some form of evidence?

You don't. No prosecutor worth their stock would go into court without feeling they had an at least believable case based on the evidence, and clearly that wasn't the case here. So there was no clear cut proof a crime occurred.

I rambled a bit, and probably lost the point at times, but it's almost 3 AM and I'm dealing with a blatant racist.

 

I wrote an angry post early in the morning without doing research and only feeling emotion from other people before doing my own research. I already sent a PM to FinalFan apologizing and already realized I posted the wrong way, but thanks for giving more information and bringing things back to the front for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...