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I have a feeling that Greninja isn't going to do very well in Ubers, but it is doing too good in OU. Which is the problem. It can't hit quite hard enough to deal with threats in Ubers from what I can tell. So it's tricky.

But it certainly doesn't belong in OU anymore.

 

Also gonna be updating the OP at some point. Adding a spoiler for "Current tournaments" "Past tournaments" "Rankings" and anything else I think should go there.

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I have the first Season's tournament set up. If possible I'd love it if we could have a Bookie to take in bets for the tournament, to add extra spice.

Oh nice, that's good. Um....a Bookie you say? I don't know how this would work exactly.

As in other people outside of here make bets? Could be interesting. What would the winner get in that case?

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Oh nice, that's good. Um....a Bookie you say? I don't know how this would work exactly.

As in other people outside of here make bets? Could be interesting. What would the winner get in that case?

The winner of the bet would obviously get the spoils of the bet, whereas the tourney winner will gain points from a prize pool I'll be contributing to.
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If Greninja gets banned to Ubers, I'm quitting Showdown.

(tbf, I also said this about Swagger and Mega Mawile, yet here I am still playing Showdown)

 

People aren't going to learn how to counter threats if we just sequester them away to where only the Pokemon meant to wreck house can deal with them.

 

You can't actually counter Greninja as a pokemon. That is the problem.

 

All of its check and counters (bar Pory 2+eviolite) is massacred by one of its potential moves. Chansey or fairies? Gunk Shot. Empoleon? Low Kick. Scarf? Good luck switching in without it getting killed or heavily damaged, and Greninja can just leave. You must predict all 4 of its move in teams like Offense or Balanced, otherwise it just walks all over your team since you accidentally sent a "check" or "counter" which turns out being killed by one of its coverage move. You can only counter certain sets, basically. Ferrothorn checks non HP-fire/Low Kick variants, Tentacruel checks non Extrasensory one, etc.

 

Another problem is that in Offense or Balanced team, you are forced to run comparably sub par stuff or stuffs that just hurts the team just to not be massacred by Greninja outright.

 

Next problem is, while every other pokemon has coverage options too, Greninja actually makes them -threatening- immediately. Standard LO greninja hits ridiculously hard for something with 103 SpA, and you don't even have to actually do anything. Just come in safely and start attacking.

 

Then again, why things are banned are completely independent from whether it's adaptable to. If something is too overcentralizing to the meta to the point of influencing teambuilding heavily (Greninja, Aegislash), plain stupid 50/50 that actually works in the user's favor (evasion, Swagger), or just generally able to punch holes in teams too easily (M-Mawile), those could and should be considered as a suspect.

 

If we're talking Yugioh, think of it as why you want certain cards to be hit. It's either because it's a part of an overwhelming/degenerate tier 1 deck, OR is from a completely unfun strategy that's not competitive (things like Exodia Turbo, Final COuntdown, any GIshki deck/hand loop, etc).

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Kay so like, if there's nothing solid figured out by January 1st I will set up a fairly basic tournament just to get something started.

 

I was thinking something a bit different but not too much so. OU but with 1 Uber Pokemon. We'll have to work out a list of Ubers that are totally not allowed though. I was thinking Primal Kyogre and Groudon maybe?

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The game can easily devolve into ''counter the opponent Uber or die', which seriously wrecks team designs as we need to check Uber threats using the limited resources of OU or below.

 

Game can easily be decided from team preview, as failing to counter an opposing Uber threat can easily means game.

 

Granted, I might be exaggerating this a bit, but you should get what I'm concerned with.

 

EDIT: Also, seriously. What makes Mega-Gengar powerful and scary (even almost made it kicked from freaking ubers, before MRay is a thing) is its ability to trap and kill anything and perform a shitton of jobs well, given the right set. Basically, you make a team, and slap a MGengar to it to deal with anything your team is weak to.

 

Coupled with ridiculous speed and SpA, that is what makes it threatening.

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That would limit teambuilding in unpleasant ways. Say, you wanted to play stall. In that case your uber would be something like Giratina-O or PhDef Yveltal as a common switch-in for various threats, but if you could only use these after several pokemon have fainted, it would nullify their whole use.

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Well probably will just start up a regular OU tournament soon then. Might have an entrance fee of...*checks members points* Well then. We have an odd mix of a lot and barely any points so I have no idea. 1-200?

 

Also I think I owe Trap some points now that I think of it.

 

Anyway. Random thought for anyone who wishes to discuss.

Choice Band Ferrothorn. y/n?

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Well probably will just start up a regular OU tournament soon then. Might have an entrance fee of...*checks members points* Well then. We have an odd mix of a lot and barely any points so I have no idea. 1-200?

 

Also I think I owe Trap some points now that I think of it.

 

Anyway. Random thought for anyone who wishes to discuss.

Choice Band Ferrothorn. y/n?

 

Gyro Ball, Power Whip, and?

 

It doesn't have the moveset to pull it tbh. it's effectively just gimping yourself, and at that point you should've used Metagross instead.

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Gyro Ball, Power Whip, and?

 

It doesn't have the moveset to pull it tbh. it's effectively just gimping yourself, and at that point you should've used Metagross instead.

Knock Off, Aerial Ace... or Explosion? I suppose it does suffer from lack of offensive moves.

I'm crazy, keep in mind. You saw my physical Venusaur.

Hmm...well it gets SD, Hone Claws, Curse... I suppose if going Offensive maybe Curse would be a good option, provided you clear the field of Fire.

Curse, Leech Seed, Gyro Ball, Power Whip? Hmm....

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