Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works

[Maeriberii Haan]

Gil being stupidly overpowered is sadly one thing that we just accept as a fact.

 

Then again my husbando Karna could very well has a clear chance of defeating Gil. but sadly that's AU.

[Rodrigo]

Cû in portuguese means asshole.

 

[The banterbus is in town]

Normally Saber wouldn't win Gil at all. Saber with Excalibur won't win against Gil with a prepared Enuma Elish. Saber with Avalon and a prepared Excalibur won't win against Gil without his arrogance and a fully prepared Enuma Elish(although Avalon Saber will survive against EE, apparently). Excalibur is an anti-fortress class NP while Ea is anti-world. it's just not going to happen. The guy above covered GoB vs. IH, but again, Ea destroys reality marbles. I really don't like Gil and it's annoying to admit but he truly is the strongest heroic spirit.

 

[spoiler=and with shirou...]Shirou defeated Gil, and that was pretty situational too. Had Gil not be an arrogant, overconfident prick and went all-out before Shirou could close the distance, then Shirou would've easily lost. Shirou's UBW counters Gate of Babylon by having a slightly faster weapon output rate as well as being able to create perfect replicas that can stand up to their originals, but Ea is a counter to reality marbles(That includes UBW and /Z Rider's IH). It's a miracle Shirou was able to win. One I'm glad happened, but still a miracle nevertheless.[/spoiler]

 

The beauty of Fate overall is that it's not just a pure powerlevel thing. It's really a lot like situational RPS. The whole Shirou/Gilgamesh schtick is one example, but also consider that Shirou is weak and would not stand a chance against any other servant, even with UBW out. Or that magically-reinforced Kuzuki would almost always win in a close-combat match on the first encounter only, because his martial arts' entire gimmick relies on surprise. A rematch against Saber would prove Saber to be the overwhelming victor. or that Shiki can kill servants when he's just a normal human being.

 

best taste. cu > deermud

Finally, someone else who understands that Nasuverse powerlevels is just an overglorified game of RPS. Except we all know that Shiki can't kill servants because Shiki > Shiki.

 

Cû and Kotomine are the 2 best husbando's of Fate. Deermud a shit. Runes > All. Caster Cû is going to be the most beautiful thing ever conceived by this shitty game. Other than based Mordred.

 

 

Cû in portuguese means a******.

Rather ironic considering he's the nicest servant we know.

[Yosuke-kun]

Okay, I'll accept that maybe the invisible stats are just RPS but rest of the game is certainly not otherwise it would have been Berserker > everyone but Gil. Honestly you really can't forget that they are sentient thinkers capable (or maybe incapable in Berserkers case) of strategizing to beat each other. You're treating it like they just beat their head against something till they solve the problem or just get a concussion.

I'm not saying that Gil isn't the strongest either. He's clearly broke as fuck after all, but he's not the invincible God that everyone seems to think. He has a blatant weakness in his arrogance that I don't for the life of me know why this is never exploited. No matter how strong his opponents are he treats them like they're trash. The only reason he went all out against Iskandar was because he acknowledged Iskandar's power rivaled his own, and he flat out says this and goes as far as to offer him a rematch whenever he wished. I'd go as far as to say Berserker from F/Z might have been able to beat him soley because Gil wouldn't take him seriously despite the fact that he was a very capable fighter.

Shiro I just mentioned as a joke. We all know that he only won because he had the legendary plot armor and the sword of the protagonist. Let's not pretend otherwise.

[The banterbus is in town]

Okay, I'll accept that maybe the invisible stats are just RPS but rest of the game is certainly not otherwise it would have been Berserker > everyone but Gil. Honestly you really can't forget that they are sentient thinkers capable (or maybe incapable in Berserkers case) of strategizing to beat each other. You're treating it like they just beat their head against something till they solve the problem or just get a concussion.

I'm not saying that Gil isn't the strongest either. He's clearly broke as f*** after all, but he's not the invincible God that everyone seems to think. He has a blatant weakness in his arrogance that I don't for the life of me know why this is never exploited. No matter how strong his opponents are he treats them like they're trash. The only reason he went all out against Iskandar was because he acknowledged Iskandar's power rivaled his own, and he flat out says this and goes as far as to offer him a rematch whenever he wished. I'd go as far as to say Berserker from F/Z might have been able to beat him soley because Gil wouldn't take him seriously despite the fact that he was a very capable fighter.

Shiro I just mentioned as a joke. We all know that he only won because he had the legendary plot armor and the sword of the protagonist. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Except that Berserker > Everyone but Gil is a legitimate fact. He already makes 3/7 servants impossible to even kill his lives because God Hand. Saber and Shirou moment in Fate route was bullshit. Zero!Berserker was about to lose if only Tokiomi didn't use a command seal. They state that literally in the LN. 16 was Berserkers limit and had he opened GoB to 32, he would have died. He didn't acknowledge that Iskander's power rivaled his own, it was out of respect as they are both similar kings.

[mitchermitcher]

Shirou winning Gil that one time does make perfect sense though. Gil's arrogance actually was exploited, just maybe not intentionally. It was a miracle that Shirou was able to win, but a perfectly possible miracle, given the circumstances.

 

And considering actual gods can't be summoned in the HGW normally, Gil is about the closest you can get to one.

[The banterbus is in town]

So aside from powerlevels, has any info whether HF is going to be a series of movies like KnK or if it's just one. If so, I officially hate UBW.

[mitchermitcher]

I believe there's no news regarding that. As they say, no news is good news.

 

I hope they get KnK 5's director to do the HF movies.

[Merci]

So aside from powerlevels, has any info whether HF is going to be a series of movies like KnK or if it's just one. If so, I officially hate UBW.

It'll definitely be a series of movies. Three or four.

No matter how you look at it, Heaven's Feel is simply too long to compress into a single movie, even if you extended it to three hours, and Ufotable is more than sensible enough to realize that it simply doesn't work like that (one need only look at the UBW DEEN movie). Plus, they'll watch to milk the Fate franchise as much as possible, so making multiple movies gives them as much profit as it does us.

Plus, Ufotable did say that 'Heaven's Feel will be our best work', so if they're confident, why on earth would they make it one movie? Think of it that way~
 

Shiro I just mentioned as a joke. We all know that he only won because he had the legendary plot armor and the sword of the protagonist. Let's not pretend otherwise.

I refuse.

Instead of saying something dumb like "Let's not pretend otherwise" (since you might as well explain away plot armour for every single battle in every single fictional work ever) and immediately jump to assumptions, why not analyze how exactly that happened?

[spoiler=UBW Spoilers]
The circumstances themselves were situational, which is something I won't deny, but there is a lot more logic in them than you might think. To begin with, it is made clear that there is no other Servant Shirou can possibly face apart from Gilgamesh (the situation being different than HF, when he becomes a superpowered ticking time bomb due to the transplant).

So then, let's look at the factors in this battle.

1. Gilgamesh is ridiculously arrogant, and he is facing a puny human. He's the King of Heroes, so he'll naturally come to the assumption that 'I can defeat any Servant = therefore, no human in this age can beat me'. Up to the very end, he was thinking of his battle with Shirou as some kind of sick joke.

At any point, Gilgamesh could've pulled out a OP'd magic shield, equipped his armour, or do any other number of bullshut things, but he didn't because he wanted to prove that he could outmatch this bratty teenager's abilities. If he started using a different strategy, it would be him accepting that he might lose that way, which is unacceptable. Whereas his opponent was pushing himself to the very very limits, he himself wasn't taking it seriously to the very end. By the time he wisened up, it was too late.


2. Shirou has the power 'Unlimited Blade Works', which specifically counters Gate of Babylon. It can copy and fire out weapons at a slightly faster rate, and this forces Gilgamesh to have to engage him in close combat. In case you never realized it while reading the VN (assuming you did), Shirou is a broken, twisted individual whose sole drive is saving others. That, combined with the fact that his Origin was changed to Sword when Kiritsugu implanted Avalon in him, enabled him to create his own reality marble - actually, everyone has a reality marble in their hearts, and while it would take dozens of years normally for him to learn how to use it, he was able to bypass that due to lolArcher.


3. Gilgamesh is only an 'owner' and not a 'master' of any of his weapons. Yes, he has Servant-level strength and is incredibly powerful, but his great inexperience at close combat with an unfamiliar weapon can be taken advantage of by Shirou, who not only has been absorbing the abilities and experience of Archer throughout all of UBW, but also possesses the ability to absorb all the experience of any weapon he grasps, enabling him to wield it with more skill than a beginner, which is technically what Gilgamesh is regardless of his strength.


4. Shirou has a direct connection to Rin's mana supply, highly boosting his abilities. This is actually a lot more important than you might think, since even if he has the powers of Archer, his body just has not adapted to them yet. Believe it or not, Rin in an outstanding magus with incredible Magic Circuits, and by relying on her supply of mana to boost his capabilities, he's able to properly get closer to his own future self's level, use Unlimited Blade Works, and match Gilgamesh.


The circumstances themselves happened to be in his favor, and he won out of luck, when Gilgamesh could've easily won if he put a bit more effort into it - that is true, and I won't deny it.

However, it's all logically explained, especially considering how he never pulled anything out of his ass, unlike a vast majority of other shounen battles. There was no abrupt power-up, no "boom SHINKA transformation now im stronger than you now ha ha ha", which is typical of the cliche 'legendary plot armour and sword of the protagonist' that you describe. (an example of THAT in F/SN would be the usage of Caliburn beating Berserker, but even that has roots)

In contrast, he powers and abilities he used here were built up throughout the course of both the first and the second routes Fate and UBW, and what his Projection could do was quite clearly defined.

Also, what Gilgamesh is capable of was also made very clear throughout those two routes, though Fate/Zero never made it as clear since, in the three battles he ended up in, he fought at long range each and every time...an advantage of his which Shirou negated.

He is the "Ultimate Servant", but it just so happens that due to the way his powers work, he is the only one Shirou stands a chance against. If it were any other Servant, they would utterly decimate Shirou in a one-on-one battle.

[/spoiler]

Gilgamesh is not undefeatable, and when he faces something that counters all his powers except Ea, and refuses to take it seriously, it will most likely result in his defeat.

So I say, Yosuke-kun (along with anyone else thinking the same thing), don't just look at the circumstances like they're just a joke and dismiss them mindlessly. Analyze it. Do you see any cliche power-ups? Do you see any inexplicit developments? Do you see anything that wasn't already established in the past?

From Projection to Gate of Babylon to gaining experience to mana transfers, they were a thing and have always been a thing. By the time the battle rolls around, all the groundwork will have been established.

And uh...don't look at the DEEN movie as an example of how the battle went, because that adaptation's just weird.

[The banterbus is in town]

It'll definitely be a series of movies. Three or four.

No matter how you look at it, Heaven's Feel is simply too long to compress into a single movie, even if you extended it to three hours, and Ufotable is more than sensible enough to realize that it simply doesn't work like that (one need only look at the UBW DEEN movie). Plus, they'll watch to milk the Fate franchise as much as possible, so making multiple movies gives them as much profit as it does us.

Plus, Ufotable did say that 'Heaven's Feel will be our best work', so if they're confident, why on earth would they make it one movie? Think of it that way~
 

2. Shirou has the power 'Unlimited Blade Works', which specifically counters Gate of Babylon. It can copy and fire out weapons at a slightly faster rate, and this forces Gilgamesh to have to engage him in close combat. In case you never realized it while reading the VN (assuming you did), Shirou is a broken, twisted individual whose sole drive is saving others. That, combined with the fact that his Origin was changed to Sword when Kiritsugu implanted Avalon in him, enabled him to create his own reality marble - actually, everyone has a reality marble in their hearts, and while it would take dozens of years normally for him to learn how to use it, he was able to bypass that due to lolArcher.


4. Shirou has a direct connection to Rin's mana supply, highly boosting his abilities. This is actually a lot more important than you might think, since even if he has the powers of Archer, his body just has not adapted to them yet. Believe it or not, Rin in an outstanding magus with incredible Magic Circuits, and by relying on her supply of mana to boost his capabilities, he's able to properly get closer to his own future self's level, use Unlimited Blade Works, and match Gilgamesh.


However, it's all logically explained, especially considering how he never pulled anything out of his ass, unlike a vast majority of other shounen battles. There was no abrupt power-up, no "boom SHINKA transformation now im stronger than you now ha ha ha", which is typical of the cliche 'legendary plot armour and sword of the protagonist' that you describe. (an example of THAT in F/SN would be the usage of Caliburn beating Berserker, but even that has roots)
 

Bless if they're going to have HF be good and multiple films. It isn't Rin boosting his abilities (other than him using her mana), it's that Shirou downloads the heroes information when he projects their weapon. Which is why his swordsmanship was able to suddenly be able to counter people like Kuzuki and Archer himself. Caliburn beating Berserker has it's "roots" but It is still the worst part in the series.

[Merci]

Bless if they're going to have HF be good and multiple films. It isn't Rin boosting his abilities (other than him using her mana), it's that Shirou downloads the heroes information when he projects their weapon. Which is why his swordsmanship was able to suddenly be able to counter people like Kuzuki and Archer himself. Caliburn beating Berserker has it's "roots" but It is still the worst part in the series.

Oi oi, I mentioned that too~ Gaining experience, remember~? Though, yes, I probably should've put it as 'information' since that's a more accurate way of putting it.

He's able to analyze any weapon he projects and become able to use them, in contrast to Gilgamesh who - despite his strength - is a beginner at everything. This, combined with the experience that he gains from Archer, makes him a lot stronger than he'd normally be.

Still, Rin boosting his abilities and granting him her mana is a MUCH bigger factor than you think. Without her exceptional mana (if we had to compare, she has 500 MP whereas he only has 20 MP), he wouldn't possess the required energy reserves to keep up with Gate of Babylon, let alone cast the reality marble Unlimited Blade Works. No matter how much skill or technique he has accumulated, it's meaningless if his body is still that of a teenager with undeveloped Magic Circuits - only through a contract with Rin can he breach that gap and stand an actual chance of victory.

Without Rin, he wouldn't be able to keep up at all, and there definitely wouldn't be any Unlimited Blade Works. In that regard, his defeat would be certain.

...

I won't deny the Caliburn thing, since yes, it's about as shounen powerup-y as you can get, and the same goes for Avalon to a lesser extent. However, the point is that this one particular battle is not one of those times~

[mitchermitcher]

4. Shirou has a direct connection to Rin's mana supply, highly boosting his abilities.

I keep forgetting about Rin giving Shirou mana. I would imagine keeping a reality marble up for a length of time would be too straining for Shirou otherwise.

 

As for the HF movie(s), I can only imagine them being two movies, split at the part where Shirou resolves to protect the route's heroine. Even if both movies are at least 2-3 hours long, a good amount of shit will still be cut, but I really don't know how else they'd do it. I can only think of that scene as a place to split apart the route. It would be pretty nice actually if they made each day a 50-minute movie or something

Still, Rin boosting his abilities and granting him her mana is a MUCH bigger factor than you think. Without her exceptional mana (if we had to compare, she has 500 MP whereas he only has 20 MP), he wouldn't possess the required energy reserves to keep up with Gate of Babylon, let alone cast the reality marble Unlimited Blade Works. No matter how much skill or technique he has accumulated, it's meaningless if his body is still that of a teenager with undeveloped Magic Circuits - only through a contract with Rin can he breach that gap and stand an actual chance of victory.

Actually, on that, I don't remember but, are we ever informed of approximately how costly it would be to cast the reality marble? I faintly remember reading up somewhere that while inside UBW, it doesn't actually cost any mana to get a weapon, since everything's already created.

[Merci]

@Mitcher: A reality marble can only be maintained for a few to several minutes, and that's with a large mana supply like Rin's. Shirou on his own, without any extensive training, would have only been able to maintain it for a second or two...not exactly enough time to fight in an epic battle, eh? But it's true that projecting weapons itself costs nothing within UBW, so this allows Shirou to instantly replicate all the weapons from Gate of Babylon. All he has to do is maintain the world, the unlimited blades come on their on.

As for two movies, I'd prefer it to be three or more~ Regarding the split you suggested, you do realize that the content of events that happen after his decision far exceed that before, right...? ^^;

If I had to decide, I say have the first movie end with the rain scene. It's gotta end there since it's the perfect ending, and transitions well into the next phase of the war. Not wholly sure about the second or third movie yet, but perhaps around the time Dark Sakura happens.

Edit: BTW, guys, I'm pretty sure there's still others here who don't know about the rest of F/SN, so let's try to tone down the spoilers a bit~

[mitchermitcher]

A reality marble...Sakura.

That really does cement in how talented Rin is. Glad I got that cleared up.

 

I confess I remember very little of what happened in HF. But if that's the case, I really don't know. Having a second split at where Dark Sakura...how much happens between the rain scene and the transformation? I genuinely can't remember anything except Saber jobbing again. Does the part with Illya come before or after the rain scene? Perhaps the second movie could shift the focus to Illya, before returning back to Sakura near the end and then for the rest of the next movie(s).

 

For some reason I'm thinking the third(?) HF movie could open up just a bit before Nine Lives.

[Merci]

That really does cement in how talented Rin is. Glad I got that cleared up.
 
I confess I remember very little of what happened in HF. But if that's the case, I really don't know. Having a second split at where Dark Sakura...how much happens between the rain scene and the transformation? I genuinely can't remember anything except Saber jobbing again. Does the part with Illya come before or after the rain scene? Perhaps the second movie could shift the focus to Illya, before returning back to Sakura near the end and then for the rest of the next movie(s).
 
For some reason I'm thinking the third(?) HF movie could open up just a bit before Nine Lives.

Rain scene occurs after church operation and Shirou's decision.

Actually, looking at the HF timeline between the rain scene and transformation (Illya stuff happens afterwards), it might indeed be better if the second movie ends shortly before Nine Lives (on a cliffhanger), or shortly afterwards, concluding a little while after the battle with Berserker.

[The banterbus is in town]

That really does cement in how talented Rin is. Glad I got that cleared up.

 

I confess I remember very little of what happened in HF. But if that's the case, I really don't know. Having a second split at where Dark Sakura...how much happens between the rain scene and the transformation? I genuinely can't remember anything except Saber jobbing again. Does the part with Illya come before or after the rain scene? Perhaps the second movie could shift the focus to Illya, before returning back to Sakura near the end and then for the rest of the next movie(s).

 

For some reason I'm thinking the third(?) HF movie could open up just a bit before Nine Lives.

Cooking for 10 days.

Plot intensifies for the last few.

 

If the film focuses more on Illya than on Kotomine, I'm going to be super upset. You can't have the best girl of F/SN not be the main focus point!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Rain scene occurs after church operation and Shirou's decision.

Actually, looking at the HF timeline between the rain scene and transformation (Illya stuff happens afterwards), it might indeed be better if the second movie ends shortly before Nine Lives (on a cliffhanger), or shortly afterwards, concluding a little while after the battle with Berserker.

If Nine Lives isn't the conclusion part, I'm going to be shocked. It's solid character development for everyone involved and it would feel so wrong if it's shoehorned to be a cliffhanger/start at the beginning of the film.

[Yosuke-kun]

Well this is the part where I stay the fuck out .3. I only got to the decision scene of HF because I really didn't like Sakura. I just don't like that kinda of character archetype.

[Merci]

Well this is the part where I stay the f*** out .3. I only got to the decision scene of HF because I really didn't like Sakura. I just don't like that kinda of character archetype.

.______.

Well, you're free to have your own opinion on the matter. Mostly, I just thought it'd be nicer if you didn't jump to conclusions regarding certain events in F/SN.

And by the 'decision scene', does this mean you didn't play to the end of HF? If that's the case, then you should at least play to the very end, since you're missing out on a lot of epic battles otherwise, and you did already go that far after all~ Sakura may not be too interesting, but there's a lot of other things that happen that totally make up for it (namely, Kirei)~

[The banterbus is in town]

Kirei <33 Illya <33 Even Sakura is amazing in HF! The bully we all love get's destroyed by her! We see Shirou at his most GARcher moment. Twice. Gosh, HF is superb. So do you guys feel that some bad ends are the canon ending for some routes? And I think we all know I'm talking about Mind of Steel and Sparks Liner High.

[mitchermitcher]

Sparks Liner High is pretty alright, but I don't feel as hyped about it as most people. Mind of Steel though, now that shit's great.

[The banterbus is in town]

Sparks Liner High is pretty alright, but I don't feel as hyped about it as most people. Mind of Steel though, now that s***'s great.

If I don't get my Superhero alt ending as an OVA so the viewers can assume this is a true ending I'll be severely upset. Same with SLH except SLH says just END instead of B.End. Why don't Ufotable just hire me for their ideas??

[Yosuke-kun]

If I don't get my Superhero alt ending as an OVA so the viewers can assume this is a true ending I'll be severely upset. Same with SLH except SLH says just END instead of B.End. Why don't Ufotable just hire me for their ideas??

Because you don't live in Japan, probably have little experience in that area, and most importantly you don't live in Japan.

[mitchermitcher]

Saw the livestream of the new episode.

 

[spoiler=gj ufotable]they nailed the lancer scene[/spoiler]

[The banterbus is in town]

Saw the livestream of the new episode.

 

[spoiler=gj ufotable]they nailed the lancer scene[/spoiler]

Likewise, Lancer scene was great but. Dr. Gil was fucking terrible compared to DEEN. Sasuga Ufotable.

[Merci]

Gotta admit, I really, REALLY enjoyed this episode. This is quite possibly my favorite episode in the second cour thus far~

In my opinion, Shirou's distortion was portrayed quite surprisingly well, even if it was shorter than in the VN, and it was definitely nice seeing him have some development regarding his heroic ideals when talking with Rin, allowing people to look deeper into the things that drive him. I could really sense the unease there and understand their differing beliefs~

The Dr. Gil scene was surprisingly short and blunt, but you know what, I actually think it's better this way - more realistic, rather than having blood pour out like a fountain. Besides, if it was overly dramatic, it would've ruined the ending of the previous ending. Shinji is an ass and needs to be punched so much, nothing more needs to be said about him.

I do hope we'll get an Illya burial scene in the BDs or something though, since apparently, this episode has an extra five minutes that was cut (if I read the translation of Ufotable's tweet correctly, anyway).

And then there was Archer's chat with Kuzuki, which provided some insight into not only his beliefs, but also the beliefs of Caster herself, and I quite enjoyed seeing them talk to each other...

But of course, THERE IS ONE THING THAT MAKES THIS EPISODE REALLY AWESOME

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNCCCEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR

*cough cough cough*

Well, his entry certainty made things a whole lot more interesting~ And indeed, his presence really made ShirouxRin all the more apparent, and entertaining too. I loved how they hilariously reacted to his presence by arguing with each other, and also with the whole "don't get close to Rin =I" thing that happened shortly after. His presence alone makes this anime much more entertaining, doesn't it~ Lancer's such a bro, isn't he~

Speaking of which, the next episode is certainly going to turn out pretty good. We'll have Lancer vs Archer, and presumably Rin vs Caster and Shirou vs Kuzuki too. Three different epic battles going on at the same time? Awesome~