Fixing the game

[Tinkerer]

So, people have a lot of differing opinions about the game, but one thing that I've noticed is that people seem to agree that the game itself has kinda been blown out of proportion.

So my question to YCM is... From here, IS there a way for Konami to salvage the game and, if so, what do you think would be the steps necessary to fix it?

Let's hear your opinions YCM!

[Bringerofcake]

This thread makes me think of

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUFWXpYJKaI

 

It's impossible to say if the game is fixed because nobody can agree on what an ideal gamestate is aside from really abstract terms like "high skill intensive environment" or some such nonsense.

 

I personally think the game needs no fixing, if only because it's bonkers and insane enough that trying to "fix" it would involve banning half the existing cardpool/a bunch of erratas, which is bad for its own reasons.

[AnnieShifter]

I believe you can quote the old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Just as B.O.C said attempting to fix the game may merely hurt it and complicate it even more. The game isn't perfect, but seems to function just fine.

[ihop]

The game is fine...

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

"Fine" is a subjective term. I believe the whole fact of the matter is that this game has just become too complex for some people (including myself, which is one of the reasons I don't play it anymore). Also I believe people just want to go back to the simpler days, where Blackwings and Lightsworns were actually relevant (god forbid it was a terrible format, though), because people don't like complexity creep in card games for some reason. If that were the case though, there wouldn't be that "high-skill intensive environment" that we'd all dream of. Sure we can get rid of some cards but what would that accomplish; people would just find the next broken thing to exploit and play. YGO has gotten to the point where even if it was fixed, there would always be some backup plan or fallback that never really changes the gamestate.

 

For me, personally, I started to see the game go downhill right after the invention of Xyz Monsters, because at the time Konami had NO CLUE how to put their new mechanic into action. Remember when Sangan got its effect off after being Detached? Yeah, good times. But that example is one of the reasons this complexity creep and new mechanics force players into thinking "oh this game isn't fun anymore I'm gonna call it broken and hope it gets fixed". And now with Pendulums? Well, I think Konami had a better handle on Pendulums this time but it's still a new mechanic so it automatically becomes a target for unnecessary hate and animosity towards the gamestate. No one likes change, I get it, but sometimes a card game needs to evolve in order to become better.

[chaoticjexak]

"Fine" is a subjective term. I believe the whole fact of the matter is that this game has just become too complex for some people (including myself, which is one of the reasons I don't play it anymore). Also I believe people just want to go back to the simpler days, where Blackwings and Lightsworns were actually relevant (god forbid it was a terrible format, though), because people don't like complexity creep in card games for some reason. If that were the case though, there wouldn't be that "high-skill intensive environment" that we'd all dream of. Sure we can get rid of some cards but what would that accomplish; people would just find the next broken thing to exploit and play. YGO has gotten to the point where even if it was fixed, there would always be some backup plan or fallback that never really changes the gamestate.

 

For me, personally, I started to see the game go downhill right after the invention of Xyz Monsters, because at the time Konami had NO CLUE how to put their new mechanic into action. Remember when Sangan got its effect off after being Detached? Yeah, good times. But that example is one of the reasons this complexity creep and new mechanics force players into thinking "oh this game isn't fun anymore I'm gonna call it broken and hope it gets fixed". And now with Pendulums? Well, I think Konami had a better handle on Pendulums this time but it's still a new mechanic so it automatically becomes a target for unnecessary hate and animosity towards the gamestate. No one likes change, I get it, but sometimes a card game needs to evolve in order to become better.

 

this is true- but overall one cannot deny the increase in speed.. and in the meta its 'play necroz or BA or lose' which is so unfair. 

[Cosmo.]

The game itself isn't broken, you're just looking at meta. Meta sucks and it is bad, don't look at it, it's ugly. Instead look at the over "50 shades of Decks" that you can create. From goofy and dumb ideas to actually functional troll decks, or just good decks that aren't meta. So in my opinion the only thing that needs to be fixed is the meta, or at least tournaments. You get divided into two sections, one for any deck except meta decks and the other for meta decks, so everyone can enjoy their favourite deck with actually fair match-ups

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

in the meta its 'play necroz or BA or lose' 

 

Well this is blatantly incorrect.

[chaoticjexak]

Well this is blatantly incorrect.

 

I've heard it to be true…. and I've played necroz using bujins and lost like..badly…and don't say bujins are bad :P they are still relatively decent

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I've heard it to be true…. and I've played necroz using bujins and lost like..badly…and don't say bujins are bad :P they are still relatively decent

 

Bujins are bad, and you heard wrong. If they were decent, you wouldn't be losing.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

The litmus test for "decent" is not dependent on a deck's match-up vs. Nekroz.

 

Bujins are a solid Tier 2.

 

On-topic, I'd like a 16000 LP format or some such. 

[Cosmo.]

 

 

On-topic, I'd like a 16000 LP format or some such. 

It would be interesting to have official tournaments with higher LPs, just so that OTKs aren't a big thing.

[J-Max]

I think three of the main problems that has been happening over the years is that OTK's are becoming more and more of a thing, Decks are becoming more complex which in theory would be a good thing but instead it has become a Clusterfuck and the fact that some Decks literally play Solitaire until the opponent is pretty much dead (Also before you say anything, yes Madolche is a bit like Solitaire at times)

 

We need a rule implemented that a players Life Points cannot be 0 until Turn 5 and onwards. This would mean that both players have a good chance to Set things up for a more fun Duel.

 

Also I second the notion of increasing the starting Life points. 16000 may be a bit extreme but 10000-12000 would be a more solid basis.

[ihop]

The litmus test for "decent" is not dependent on a deck's match-up vs. Nekroz.

 

Bujins are a solid Tier 2.

 

On-topic, I'd like a 16000 LP format or some such. 

 

It's worth saying that it is kinda dependent on its matchups against other good decks like Shaddoll, Tellars, Qli, Burning Abyss, Ritual Beast, Yosenju (it loses)

[Cosmo.]

We all can agree that since the start of the ARC-V era (Advent of the duelist i think it was... the one with Odd-eyes on it) cards got super crazy. And i'm not talking about Pendulums because only one Pendulum deck is actually insane out of all the ones released. I think they should do a reset, making all the God-tier decks playable against, with other decks, and then wait for new packs to come out and see what happens.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

It's worth saying that it is kinda dependent on its matchups against other good decks like Shaddoll, Tellars, Qli, Burning Abyss, Ritual Beast, Yosenju (it loses)

 

That's because those are Tier 1, along with Heroes, Yang Zing, Infernoids, UA's, and Noble Knights. 

 

Tier 2 is LS, Monarchs, Bujins, Madolche, Sylvan, Geargia, Mermail, SixSam, Chaos Dragons, Gadgets, Dark World, Blackwings, Agents, Harpies, and Fire Kings.

 

Tier 2 decks aren't less than decent, but Tier 3 decks are (GB's, Batterymen, Dragunity, Cyber Dragon, Synchron, Volcanics, Wind-Up, Battling Boxer, Gem Knight, T.G., straight Artifacts, Inzektors, GK's, Infernity, Scrap, Spellbooks). 

[ihop]

Heroes, Yang Zing, Infernoids, UA's, and Noble Knights. 

 

huh?

 

I see your point but this is all a bit beside the point anyway. Bujin losing to like, 7 or 8 top decks is just how the idea of meta decks works, they're better than other decks. This has always been the case and right now the meta is as good as it's been in ages because 7 top decks is more than there's basically ever been. This format isn't "Nekroz or BA or else you lose" like the guy is suggesting, it's just a regular format with meta decks and non-meta decks.

[Zauls]

The game isn't broken at all. Its been power crept to hell and I think that's what turns a lot of people off, but that's to be expected of any game. They have to sell new cards. The meta is currently quite enjoyable actually. A lot of the meta decks take a pretty decent amount of skill to play and a lot of the matchups make for interesting duels.

 

The only thing I would change about the current game would be to get rid of Pendulums. They are a really poorly conceived mechanic with the scope for absolutely ridiculous shenanigans. Igknights remind me far too much of Frog FTK. Speaking of Frog FTK, if anyone wants to complain about how bad the game is compared to a few years ago, I will point you to that format. The game has got soooo much better since then.

[J-Max]

The game isn't broken at all. Its been power crept to hell and I think that's what turns a lot of people off, but that's to be expected of any game. They have to sell new cards. The meta is currently quite enjoyable actually. A lot of the meta decks take a pretty decent amount of skill to play and a lot of the matchups make for interesting duels.

 

The only thing I would change about the current game would be to get rid of Pendulums. They are a really poorly conceived mechanic with the scope for absolutely ridiculous shenanigans. Igknights remind me far too much of Frog FTK. Speaking of Frog FTK, if anyone wants to complain about how bad the game is compared to a few years ago, I will point you to that format. The game has got soooo much better since then.

You mean time time when Substitoad was at 3? Oh god..... Yeah back then Lightsworn was Tier 1 heck even Tier 0 as there wasn't many Counters for it back then.

[Zauls]

You mean time time when Substitoad was at 3? Oh god..... Yeah back then Lightsworn was Tier 1 heck even Tier 0 as there wasn't many Counters for it back then.

 

It was when Ronintoadin got released. The other meta decks were X-Sabers and Infernity, among many others. A format with a consistent FTK and 3 Launcher 3 Archfiend 3 Barrier Infernities? You can imagine what that format was like.

[Tinkerer]

Huh, so the game being "broken to the burning abyss and back" isn't the consensus amongst YCMers.  As a person who plays more casually, I was curious as I didn't really think the game was as bad as some people in other threads made it out to be... which is why I started this thread in the first place.  I wanted to understand where they were coming from.

 

Of course, I do think a slower gameplay would help a lot as a ton of decks need a bit to get going.  Increasing the LP count does seem to be the simplest way of doing so.

[Blake]

Huh, so the game being "broken to the burning abyss and back" isn't the consensus amongst YCMers.  As a person who plays more casually, I was curious as I didn't really think the game was as bad as some people in other threads made it out to be... which is why I started this thread in the first place.  I wanted to understand where they were coming from.

 

Of course, I do think a slower gameplay would help a lot as a lot of decks need a bit to get going.  Increasing the LP count does seem to be the simplest way of doing so.

It is the consensus.

 

The brokenness of YGO is why most people enjoy it.

[chaoticjexak]

true- but then most of the meta is scubas that like to play solitaire

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

true- but then most of the meta is scubas that like to play solitaire

 

Yet another misconception. Shaddolls, as an example of a high-tier deck, use TONS of interaction, and are considered high-skill

[chaoticjexak]

Yet another misconception. Shaddolls, as an example of a high-tier deck, use TONS of interaction, and are considered high-skill

 

ah autoscorrect- i meant to say scumbaglol. i don't say that the meta is scrubby- shads do take knowledge of exactly hat play to make for a situation..but the meta is full of salty asses who either play solitaire or use whatever move you have against you. for example- necroz search and search then kill you- whir yosenjus drop the secret move whenever the damn hell they please.