Pendulum Call

[SirReal]

 

"If you did not activate the Pendulum Effect of a "Magician" Pendulum Monster this turn: Discard 1 card; add 2 "Magician" Pendulum Monsters with different names from your Deck to your hand, also "Magician" cards in your Pendulum Zones cannot be destroyed by card effects until the end of your opponent’s next turn. You can only activate 1 "Pendulum Call" per turn."

 

Because this card hasn't had a proper topic yet. 

 

so...A card to set up a full scale at the cost of a discard...Looks to be very good considering that your scale will be protected for a full turn. Magician effects can be activated after the activation of this card and I think it's to avoid Insight abuse since Insight must destroy itself in order to search.

[Blake]

It's good but magicians are kinda glass cannon, and they lack needed versatility.

The only magician that plays the "rearrange your scales" game is Insight, and it's a seriously lacking component given the lack of a Qliphort Scout (god forbid) to tie it all together beyond that. It needs a means to exchange its scales to gain more value, similarly to P-Pal.

[AnnieShifter]

It's a two card instant scale for Pendulum Magician's, and probably the best available card for them. The fact that it doesn't specify what must be discarded, like Dragonpit and Dragonvein do, makes the card all the more useful. The card serves as another discard outlet for Noble Dragon Magician, and when combined with Sky Arc pretty much ensures that both if not one of your scales will survive. This card is what makes Magicians all the more superior to P-Pal in my opinion, that along with their versatility, and recycling capabilities.

[Blake]

It's a two card instant scale for Pendulum Magician's, and probably the best available card for them. The fact that it doesn't specify what must be discarded, like Dragonpit and Dragonvein do, makes the card all the more useful. The card serves as another discard outlet for Noble Dragon Magician, and when combined with Sky Arc pretty much ensures that both if not one of your scales will survive. This card is what makes Magicians all the more superior to P-Pal in my opinion, that along with their versatility, and recycling capabilities.

I mean, I've tested both, so not really...

The deck doesn't do much unless it finds Sky Arc and Call/Insights, and Odd-Eyes, ironically, doesn't do as much for magicians as P-pal. Only other way to take advantage of scales is Luster Pendulum, but then he's stuck on the scales.

The deck is slow, it doesn't recover well, It just has really bursts moments, and that's dependent on what Magicians you've found. It's only consistent in being able to set good scales, but not maintain or abuse them. Hopefully the SD gives them something more, because the rare bursts plays aren't close enough together to warrant the deck in its current form.

[Yellow Jacket]

Yeah I've found that Insight is the card that really keeps my deck alive. Pendulum Call is a nice addition though. Speaking of Insight, anybody have an idea if and if so when we'll get him in the TCG?

[AnnieShifter]

I mean, I've tested both, so not really...

The deck doesn't do much unless it finds Sky Arc and Call/Insights, and Odd-Eyes, ironically, doesn't do as much for magicians as P-pal. Only other way to take advantage of scales is Luster Pendulum, but then he's stuck on the scales.

The deck is slow, it doesn't recover well, It just has really bursts moments, and that's dependent on what Magicians you've found. It's only consistent in being able to set good scales, but not maintain or abuse them. Hopefully the SD gives them something more, because the rare bursts plays aren't close enough together to warrant the deck in its current form.

I don't necessarily agree with that, and through my own testing have Magicians to be a much more stable and consistent deck. I find that the deck having five (six if you count sorcerer searching Joker) separate main searchers definitely places it above P-pals 3-4 searchers (if you count Odd-Eyes and Arc). I've never really ever had problems with speed and the deck has moderate recovery using its main boss (Absolute), recycling provided by Peasant ensures that you will at least always have 1 to 2 pendulums in hand ready for use, Pendulum Call offers immediate scale replenishing and recovery, and if all else fails they can consistently play Odd-Eyes Fusion. Magicians are more versatile than P-Pal in the aspect that they can consistently pull of a variety of plays with little trouble.

I disagree with your statement on Odd-Eyes helping P-Pal more than Magicians. P-Pal lack the ability to even summon OE without using Joker, which is probably a bad idea in the first place. In Magicians he searches a good deal of the deck and is constantly summonable. He allows them to bring out their main bosses fairly easy and consistently. So I don't see how OE would offer more utility in P-Pal than Pendulum Magicians.

Pendulum Magicians do not require Sky Arc nor Pendulum Call to win, and can gain significant advantage without them, although the cards do help. They may lack the raw scale manipulation that P-Pals have, but they outclass P-Pal in scale durability and power. Even then, they still have access to significant scale manipulation. They can consistently protect and swarm their monsters unlike P-Pals which is a more"Go big or Go home" deck.

Not to mention Magicians have access to all pendulum related support, just as P-Pals do. Although a Magician build with some P-Pals (specifically Sorcerer, since it searches out Joker) seems to work perfectly fine. After all the decks were suppose to work together.

[玄魔の王]

Wait, so this thing prevents Insight from working? That sucks.

[Blake]

I don't necessarily agree with that, and through my own testing have Magicians to be a much more stable and consistent deck. I find that the deck having five (six if you count sorcerer searching Joker) separate main searchers definitely places it above P-pals 3-4 searchers (if you count Odd-Eyes and Arc). I've never really ever had problems with speed and the deck has moderate recovery using its main boss (Absolute), recycling provided by Peasant ensures that you will at least always have 1 to 2 pendulums in hand ready for use, Pendulum Call offers immediate scale replenishing and recovery, and if all else fails they can consistently play Odd-Eyes Fusion. Magicians are more versatile than P-Pal in the aspect that they can consistently pull of a variety of plays with little trouble.

First off, number of searchers doesn't mean anything. Joker and Pend Wiz/Sorc have a lot more synergy than the other searchers, bar Insight. You can constantly find Jokers and Wizards in addition to things like Lizardraw for more advantage, so stating a number of searchers and neglecting to mention their synergies and interactions is a poor point.

"Peasant ensures..."

No, it doesn't. It makes it more likely, and can recover insight, but it does not in any way guarantee that. You have to draw most of your magicians, or slowly wait for multiple copies of Call to validate them. The deck isn't super consistent in anything but setting scales and having a 15/15 Level 4 laying around. Sure, OEAD is a card, but saying "if you make the boss" is poor when you aren't even guaranteed to make the boss.

"Variety of plays with little trouble"

That's a bold-faced lie. They make incredibly linear plays for the most part. Namely Xyz, occasional Synchro, constant Pendulum Summoning. Having options is not a variety of plays, nor can they do so as easily as you imply.

I disagree with your statement on Odd-Eyes helping P-Pal more than Magicians. P-Pal lack the ability to even summon OE without using Joker, which is probably a bad idea in the first place. In Magicians he searches a good deal of the deck and is constantly summonable. He allows them to bring out their main bosses fairly easy and consistently. So I don't see how OE would offer more utility in P-Pal than Pendulum Magicians.

Setting Joker isn't that bad. It's not optimal, but you can generally SS it with Meteorburst or pop it with Sky Arc/Wizard immediately, which means that it's not a dead scale. Even then, it locks an entire one monster out of being summoned.

Odd-Eyes finds your best cards, bar Joker, allows you to run Sky Arc, and is a deckthin. This wasn't worth it in the past, but two factors have changed:
1. Amazing Field Spell
2. Joker's scale 8 and ability to find it early

You find Insight in Magicians, but given how you can't manage your scales... at all, without taking a neg, you're only going to resolve 1 search per game, and then you have a herpderp 2500 Level 7. Yippee? P-Pal can do that when they're going to game you or have a Noble, so who cares if you can ddo it 'more consistently'?

Pendulum Magicians do not require Sky Arc nor Pendulum Call to win, and can gain significant advantage without them, although the cards do help. They may lack the raw scale manipulation that P-Pals have, but they outclass P-Pal in scale durability and power. Even then, they still have access to significant scale manipulation. They can consistently protect and swarm their monsters unlike P-Pals which is a more"Go big or Go home" deck.

They don't gain 'significant' advantage without either Sky Arc or Call. The only way they do so is if they find Insight naturally, and that's still just +1 Level 4.

The scale manipulation P-Pal has /is/ power. Its the ability to filter and optimize your advantage while abusing the pendulum mechanic's infinite life. If you're denying that, you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Magicians have a lot of situational burst power, not a lot of consistent power.

And "scale durability"? What kinda bullshit buzzword is that? You mean the ability to stick around? P-Pal can stick around if they choose, it's just that the scales aren't sitting ducks. Is it the range of summoning? Who cares if you can summon a 2500 beater more or make a few R7, those aren't going to inherently win you the game. Even the 'main boss' is a fairly easy card to outplay.

magicians can't manipulate their scales at all without sky arc, which also makes them way more vulnerable, because moving scales around means less removal hits them. You can even clear your scales before you Exciton and whatnot.

Also, you call P-Pal "Go big or go home", but you deny magicians do that? If anything, you're superimposing the flaws of Magicians on P-Pal without acknowledgding the full strengths of the latter. P-Pal have access to cards like Skill Drain, have synergy with cards like Fiendish Chain, and run cards like Supply Squad to help renew advantage and reward your Wizard/Sky Arc plays. It's not really "go big or go home", especially considering under things like vanity's you can just play slow beat. Being able to OTK doesn't mean you lack longevity.

Magicians don't have longevity, at all. If you open a bunch of pendulums, you either hold them all back or overextend. If you overextend, you lose. If you don't, you probably aren't devoting enough, especially considering the deck doesn't seem like it has a lot of room for traps. So you're faced with a paradigm that encourages you to open an absolute, and then, msot decks can still outplay that.

Not to mention Magicians have access to all pendulum related support, just as P-Pals do. Although a Magician build with some P-Pals (specifically Sorcerer, since it searches out Joker) seems to work perfectly fine. After all the decks were suppose to work together.

But "pendulum support" is shit. I guess magicians can use Echo Oscillation, but that's slow.

I mean, yeah, you can run Wizard/Sorc, but that's just an engine for your searcher, and the more you mix... the less they blend, considering the magician scale restrictions on their effects (or scales) and cards like Lizardraw, which is one of the biggest reasons to play P-Pals.

Wait, so this thing prevents Insight from working? That sucks.

Only if it was on the scale when this was activated iirc.

[AnnieShifter]

First off, number of searchers doesn't mean anything. Joker and Pend Wiz/Sorc have a lot more synergy than the other searchers, bar Insight. You can constantly find Jokers and Wizards in addition to things like Lizardraw for more advantage, so stating a number of searchers and neglecting to mention their synergies and interactions is a poor point.

"Peasant ensures..."

No, it doesn't. It makes it more likely, and can recover insight, but it does not in any way guarantee that. You have to draw most of your magicians, or slowly wait for multiple copies of Call to validate them. The deck isn't super consistent in anything but setting scales and having a 15/15 Level 4 laying around. Sure, OEAD is a card, but saying "if you make the boss" is poor when you aren't even guaranteed to make the boss.

"Variety of plays with little trouble"

That's a bold-faced lie. They make incredibly linear plays for the most part. Namely Xyz, occasional Synchro, constant Pendulum Summoning. Having options is not a variety of plays, nor can they do so as easily as you imply.

Setting Joker isn't that bad. It's not optimal, but you can generally SS it with Meteorburst or pop it with Sky Arc/Wizard immediately, which means that it's not a dead scale. Even then, it locks an entire one monster out of being summoned.

Odd-Eyes finds your best cards, bar Joker, allows you to run Sky Arc, and is a deckthin. This wasn't worth it in the past, but two factors have changed:
1. Amazing Field Spell
2. Joker's scale 8 and ability to find it early

You find Insight in Magicians, but given how you can't manage your scales... at all, without taking a neg, you're only going to resolve 1 search per game, and then you have a herpderp 2500 Level 7. Yippee? P-Pal can do that when they're going to game you or have a Noble, so who cares if you can ddo it 'more consistently'?

They don't gain 'significant' advantage without either Sky Arc or Call. The only way they do so is if they find Insight naturally, and that's still just +1 Level 4.

The scale manipulation P-Pal has /is/ power. Its the ability to filter and optimize your advantage while abusing the pendulum mechanic's infinite life. If you're denying that, you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Magicians have a lot of situational burst power, not a lot of consistent power.

And "scale durability"? What kinda bullshit buzzword is that? You mean the ability to stick around? P-Pal can stick around if they choose, it's just that the scales aren't sitting ducks. Is it the range of summoning? Who cares if you can summon a 2500 beater more or make a few R7, those aren't going to inherently win you the game. Even the 'main boss' is a fairly easy card to outplay.

magicians can't manipulate their scales at all without sky arc, which also makes them way more vulnerable, because moving scales around means less removal hits them. You can even clear your scales before you Exciton and whatnot.

Also, you call P-Pal "Go big or go home", but you deny magicians do that? If anything, you're superimposing the flaws of Magicians on P-Pal without acknowledgding the full strengths of the latter. P-Pal have access to cards like Skill Drain, have synergy with cards like Fiendish Chain, and run cards like Supply Squad to help renew advantage and reward your Wizard/Sky Arc plays. It's not really "go big or go home", especially considering under things like vanity's you can just play slow beat. Being able to OTK doesn't mean you lack longevity.

Magicians don't have longevity, at all. If you open a bunch of pendulums, you either hold them all back or overextend. If you overextend, you lose. If you don't, you probably aren't devoting enough, especially considering the deck doesn't seem like it has a lot of room for traps. So you're faced with a paradigm that encourages you to open an absolute, and then, msot decks can still outplay that.

But "pendulum support" is s***. I guess magicians can use Echo Oscillation, but that's slow.

I mean, yeah, you can run Wizard/Sorc, but that's just an engine for your searcher, and the more you mix... the less they blend, considering the magician scale restrictions on their effects (or scales) and cards like Lizardraw, which is one of the biggest reasons to play P-Pals.

Only if it was on the scale when this was activated iirc.

So you originally begin by referring to the deck as “glass cannon”, which is in itself a lie. P. Magicians are far more capable at defending and protecting themselves than P-Pals, who in themselves lack any form of innate protection. Dragonpit provides useful spell/trap removal, Oversight provides protection from summon destruction, Call prevents scale destruction, and Arc prevents targeting. While P-Pals at most have access to Arc. So that was obviously a form of hypocritical criticism. Not to mention the fact that you then went to criticize and badger my usage of the phrase “scale durability”, which was clearly referring to their ability to set durable and long lasting scales.

You then go as far as to say that P-Pals can “choose” to set durable and strong scales. That is also a lie in the aspect that it is not up to the player to decide whether a scale survives, it is the opponent who decides whether they are removed or not. P-Pals lack a way to prevent the opponent from removing them, so they are unable to maintain good scales, which as a pendulum deck is a death sentence. While Magicians can consistently provide scales and support Pendulum summoning.

 Not to mention the fact that all good P-Pals support (other than Lizardraw who is inferior to Insight) is easily and consistently available (Odd-Eyes, Joker, and even Sorcerer all offer a great deal of synergy and usage with Magicians due to them functioning nicely with the deck’s main theme of P. Summoning) to Magicians. You also say that P-Pals have the ability to manipulate scales, which is done by only two main cards (Sorcerer and Lizardraw), and Sorcerer being consistently playable in Magicians as he is searchable by both Odd-Eyes and Joker who are consistently played in the deck due to Odd-Eyes sangan effect, and since Magicians rarely NS, Joker fits the role perfectly.

 Lizardraw in itself inferior to Insight as not only does it have lower stats but its effect in general is outshined by Insights, who offers an immediate search instead of a single draw and provides a level 4 for future summon. Which is much more useful as rank 4s outshine rank 3s in almost all ways. The same criticism and advantages to Insight apply to Lizardraw as well. The deck doesn’t have nearly as much scale manipulation as you let on.

·         Supply squad also offers great synergy with Insight, just as much as it does with Lizardraw.

·         The field spell offers synergy with the deck, allowing you to send Peasant, or Sorcerer back to the Extra Deck, in order SS them back and receive further pluses by recycling and searching.

Even considering Joker as a scale, is in itself a terrible move that horribly misuses the card, and perfectly shows the disadvantages of P-Pals in comparison to P. Magicians. The fact that it locks out 3 monsters from your deck is a fact that can’t be ignored, even if you play it off as a mere set back.

All of those advantages you stated in having Odd-Eyes in P-Pals apply to as well, but even more so as they can consistently provide means to special summon Odd-Eyes back without having to waste a main searcher to do so. You also constantly refer to Noble Dragon Magician, who in herself is far more consistent in Magicians than P-Pals. She serves both the role of a tuner and as reviving discard fodder for Dragonpit, Dragonvein, and Pendulum Call. While in P-Pals she does nothing more but serve as a tuner that you’ll most likely use only once before being sent to the deck since it is very unlikely you’ll summon Odd-Eyes.

Also these “technical” abuses of the Pendulum System only happens when you open those specific, unsearchable deck and applies to all pendulum decks. You criticized Magicians for relying on specific cards, but P-Pals suffer from the same thing as they rely on cards such as Supply Squad to gain significant advantage. They overly depend on power cards to make explosive plays just as Magicians do.

You constantly contradicted yourself throughout your own writing.

P-Pal can do that when they're going to game you or have a Noble, so who cares if you can ddo it 'more consistently'? ( The same can be said the other way around. Who cares if you can OTK, if we are a more consistent deck which as you said in a previous conversation “makes the deck 99/100 times better.” The deck is by far more consistent, even if you believe otherwise allow me to explain.

o   Performapal Skullcrobat Joker: Themed searcher for Odd-Eyes, P-Pals, and Magicians. The deck rarely NS so the card functions perfectly, not to mention it can be sent back to the by Vortex Dragon for later use and searching. Searchable by 1 card.

o   Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon: Themed Sangan that allows you to search out a great deal of the deck. Great beater and easily recycled and summon able. Searchable by 1 card.

o   Insight Magician: Immediate searcher for any Magician with no once per turn clause. Promotes plays and searchable by three cards. Combos well with Supply Squad.

o   Performapal Pendulum Sorcerer: Scale manipulation that promotes rank 4 plays. Searchable by 2 cards and can be continuously SS to search Joker.

o   Pendulum Call: Two card instant scale that provides protection and can discard Noble.

o   Sky Arc: Combos with Supply Squad and provides instant searches for Odd-Eyes and his fusion. Searchable by 1 card.)

Magicians don't have longevity, at all. If you open a bunch of pendulums, you either hold them all back or overextend. If you overextend, you lose. If you don't, you probably aren't devoting enough, especially considering the deck doesn't seem like it has a lot of room for traps. So you're faced with a paradigm that encourages you to open an absolute, and then, msot decks can still outplay that. ( All pendulum decks suffer this weakness including P-Pals, the difference is that they have a searchable card specifically designed to protect from summoning destruction, and a searchable card that recycles monsters. The fact that you couldn’t play traps with your original deck, comes down to how you originally designed. That doesn’t mean the deck can’t play traps. As it can play just as many traps as P-Pals. Any deck can just as easily play around your deck, including Magicians.)

That's a bold-faced lie. They make incredibly linear plays for the most part. Namely Xyz, occasional Synchro, constant Pendulum Summoning. Having options is not a variety of plays, nor can they do so as easily as you imply. (Whether you consider it versatility or not, you can’t deny Magicians have greater options than P-Pals. They have access to Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Pendulum while P-Pals rarely if every have the ability to perform fusions.  You criticized the deck for being linear while you own deck is even more so.)

I mean, yeah, you can run Wizard/Sorc, but that's just an engine for your searcher, and the more you mix... the less they blend, considering the magician scale restrictions on their effects (or scales) and cards like Lizardraw, which is one of the biggest reasons to play P-Pals. (The decks themselves are clearly meant to cooperate as shown by Joker and by the decks main user in the anime.)

[Blake]

So you originally begin by referring to the deck as “glass cannon”, which is in itself a lie. P. Magicians are far more capable at defending and protecting themselves than P-Pals, who in themselves lack any form of innate protection. Dragonpit provides useful spell/trap removal, Oversight provides protection from summon destruction, Call prevents scale destruction, and Arc prevents targeting. While P-Pals at most have access to Arc. So that was obviously a form of hypocritical criticism. Not to mention the fact that you then went to criticize and badger my usage of the phrase “scale durability”, which was clearly referring to their ability to set durable and long lasting scales.

See, you're grasping at straws now if you're tring to play semantics.

Glass cannon means it forces through, and if it fails, loses. Having S/T removal isn't "protection". Are hieratics not a glass cannon? Oversight's protection lasts for one turn, again as a glass cannon would. Call only matters if you already have the scales out, and, surprise surprise, you'll be using at least the first copy to find your optimal scales, meaning that it's not actually protection until later, nor does it prevent cards like Castel or Ignister Prominence for wrecking your setup.

Ignister also laughs at Arc, which is the only legitimate 'protection' card you mentioned. You've supplied a half baked understanding of terminology and attempted to argue semantics in a way that, quite clearly, failed. Even then, and I'll come back to this, it doesn't really stop the glass cannon nature either.

Scale Durability is still a stupid buzzword according to how you expanded, considering you are, again, jsut proving how the deck is weak in that regards and has to keep scales consistent 9/10. Why is it better to keep scale targets on the board instead of swapping them out for safety? That's more in-built protection than magicians have, easily, because it means you don't just lose to boardwipes. Sky Arc blocks MST, but it certainly doesn't block nukes... If anything, it makes you more susceptible, provided you're out of Odd-Eyes to find.

It's not hypocritical, it's you not using critical thinking.
 

You then go as far as to say that P-Pals can “choose” to set durable and strong scales. That is also a lie in the aspect that it is not up to the player to decide whether a scale survives, it is the opponent who decides whether they are removed or not. P-Pals lack a way to prevent the opponent from removing them, so they are unable to maintain good scales, which as a pendulum deck is a death sentence. While Magicians can consistently provide scales and support Pendulum summoning.

I never said that. YOU keep trying to put words in my mouth, so buck up.

I said you can choose to keep the scals. You have nothing but stationary low scales, unless you manually kill them, and your high scales are also mostly stationary. For example, Dragoknight Luster Pendulum can stay a couple turns before it goes, becaue it offers protection and advantage to the other side.

You're throwing a statement out, but where's your proof? You keep claiming a lack of inherent protection is there with P-Pal, but they outlast Magicians. Magicians lose to nukes, removal, etc., whereas P-Pal put at least one of their scales, if not both, into their hand when they end their plays. How is being in the hand less 'protected' than on the board?

 

Not to mention the fact that all good P-Pals support (other than Lizardraw who is inferior to Insight) is easily and consistently available (Odd-Eyes, Joker, and even Sorcerer all offer a great deal of synergy and usage with Magicians due to them functioning nicely with the deck’s main theme of P. Summoning) to Magicians. You also say that P-Pals have the ability to manipulate scales, which is done by only two main cards (Sorcerer and Lizardraw), and Sorcerer being consistently playable in Magicians as he is searchable by both Odd-Eyes and Joker who are consistently played in the deck due to Odd-Eyes sangan effect, and since Magicians rarely NS Joker fits the role perfectly.

Ah ah, now you're taking parts of arguments and ignoring the underlying substance.

Wiz/Sorc turns your board Pendulums into Pendulums in your hand. Can he do that in magicians? Unless you search Mammothplash + Joker, he cannot. You also assume things incorrectly with your claims.

Only two cards? Ignister Prominence and Sky Arc. One's in the ED and one's a spell, but they're there. Ignister is much more likely to be summoned in P-Pal than Magicians, and Sky Arc speaks for itself, though both can use it.
 

Lizardraw in itself inferior to Insight as not only does it have lower stats but its effect in general is outshined by Insights, who offers an immediate search instead of a single draw and provides a level 4 for future summon. Which is much more useful as rank 4s outshine rank 3s in almost all ways. The same criticism and advantages to Insight apply to Lizardraw as well. The deck doesn’t have nearly as much scale manipulation as you let on.
·         Supply squad also offers great synergy with Insight, just as much as it does with Lizardraw.
·         The field spell offers synergy with the deck, allowing you to send Peasant, or Sorcerer back to the Extra Deck, in order SS them back and receive further pluses by recycling and searching.

see now i think you're just an idiot.

Supply Squad has no synergy with Lizardraw. At all. Where in the hell did you get that idea? Pendulum Spells are not monsters, destroying them does not bombo.

Next up... Okay, Insight works if you have a clear Pendulum Zone, just like Lizardraw. The difference being that you have 1 means to clear it, without negging yourself, and P-Pal have up to 3 ways that aren't Lizardraw, who clears up the zone himself, unlike Insight.

Then there's the fact that a draw is in no way inherently worse than isntantly setting a scale. If Insight searched the Magician, I'd be willing to give you this point despite it still not being strictly better, but the fact that it places it on the scale immediately defuses your point entirely.

Don't get me wrong, Insight Magician's a great card, but you're being really presumptuous when you call it superior to Lizardraw beyond a shadow of a doubt.

as for "The deck doesn’t have nearly as much scale manipulation as you let on."... Sure, if you wanna be super literal.

You have to factor how a deck actually runs into a claim. And you don't really end your turn with full scales, ever.

Dragoknight Luster Pendulum, Lizardraw, Sky Arc, Odd-Eyes himself, Ignister, Meteorburst, Wiz/Sorc... you only end with full scales when you chosoe to end with full scales, really. You try to use literal cardcount as an excuse, but I just named 14-15 cards in the main and 4 in the ED that consistently edit your scales. Some of which are stupid easy to find. And that's what the deck spends its time doing. Do a little research, huh?
 

Even considering Joker as a scale, is in itself a terrible move that horribly misuses the card, and perfectly shows the disadvantages of P-Pals in comparison to P. Magicians. The fact that it locks out 3 monsters from your deck is a fact that can’t be ignored, even if you play it off as a mere set back.
All of those advantages you stated in having Odd-Eyes in P-Pals apply to as well, but even more so as they can consistently provide means to special summon Odd-Eyes back without having to waste a main searcher to do so. You also constantly refer to Noble Dragon Magician, who in herself is far more consistent in Magicians than P-Pals. She serves both the role of a tuner and as reviving discard fodder for Dragonpit, Dragonvein, and Pendulum Call. While in P-Pals she does nothing more but serve as a tuner that you’ll most likely use only once before being sent to the deck since it is very unlikely you’ll summon Odd-Eyes.

No, it doesn't show that. It shows that you can't think critically.

It's an option. Sure, its scale value is lower than its NS Value... but when it enables you to get extra plusses from the ED, is that not value in and of itself? No, it's not the best scale, but it is always an option. If you're going to scoff at options that exist, you don't value the cards you play adequately at all. Being able to make a play is better than adhering to strict value demands you set.

It locks out your 3 Dragoknights, and in exchange, opens up your 2-3 Odd-Eyes. How terrible. Not an even exchange at all.

As for Noble Dragon Magician... okay? Being discard fodder makes her better, for sure, but summoning odd-eyes isn't that strange so she reduces him as another hand summon at times, though not so much from the grave bar using Foolish. And, see, here's the brilliant thing about her in P-Pal: She DOES return to the deck. You tried to sell this as a drawback, but it's not especially so.

Joker searches her back immediately. An Odd-Eyes can find her again. The latter means you have a turn with an empty scale, which is what you want. Sure, staying in the ED would be better, but returning to the deck is hardly a damper most days, as you just need her to perform her purpose for the time she's there, then find her again when you need her again. You don't need to Synchro every turn, so saying she returns to the deck means your point wins... is a poor argument.
 

Also these “technical” abuses of the Pendulum System only happens when you open those specific, unsearchable deck and applies to all pendulum decks. You criticized Magicians for relying on specific cards, but P-Pals suffer from the same thing as they rely on cards such as Supply Squad to gain significant advantage. They overly depend on power cards to make explosive plays just as Magicians do.
You constantly contradicted yourself throughout your own writing.

Prove one contradiction. The fact you didn't point it out tells me you are, again, using empty words to prove your point. You're failing.

They don't rely on Supply Squad, not at all. I'll cover that more later, but you're assuming far too much.

Rely on specific cards? I claimed nothing of the sort. You really, really need to read better.

I claimed that they cannot recover, as there is a paradox with how they play. I said they're glass cannon. I never once mentioned them requiring specific cards.

I never claimed magician rely on power cards, either. I called them glass cannon because they spam a lot and OTK like any given pendulum deck... not a ton else. They just summon a lot of monsters, but none of the monsters are especially awesome. You can use them for ED summons, sure, but your monsters are all pretty shit on their own. The only one with really decent stats is Dragonvein, and he's only a Level 4. Well, Odd-Eyes as well, but that means you have to have found multiple Odd-Eyes, which is not as easy as finding your magicians by any means. And please, don't try to claim that about P-Pal, considering low scales are all abotu stats... especially Wiz/Sorc.

You have Vortex, but when you actually spend resources on that card, it isn't the best. Only worth it off of Absolute or ED-Only Odd-Eyes Fusion.

You have Absolute, but unless you can fill your board with beaters in addition to him, it doesn't matter as most decks remove it easily. If your opponent has a good set up, even the full board won't save you.

You have Clear Wing, but that still lose to boardwipes of any kind.
 

P-Pal can do that when they're going to game you or have a Noble, so who cares if you can ddo it 'more consistently'? ( The same can be said the other way around. Who cares if you can OTK, if we are a more consistent deck which as you said in a previous conversation “makes the deck 99/100 times better.” The deck is by far more consistent, even if you believe otherwise allow me to explain.

Here you go again, using empty semantics.

I said your deck was more consistent at setting scales... Not more consistent at winning. I'm not going to argue that a deck with a themed, nearly unrestricted Onomatopaira and such is going to have zero trouble setting scales, but that doesn't mean it's consistently going to make power plays. You are really trying to stretch the meaning of consistent in an attempt to sell your point, but sorry, it failed.
 

o   Performapal Skullcrobat Joker: Themed searcher for Odd-Eyes, P-Pals, and Magicians. The deck rarely NS so the card functions perfectly, not to mention it can be sent back to the by Vortex Dragon for later use and searching. Searchable by 1 card.
o   Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon: Themed Sangan that allows you to search out a great deal of the deck. Great beater and easily recycled and summon able. Searchable by 1 card.
o   Insight Magician: Immediate searcher for any Magician with no once per turn clause. Promotes plays and searchable by three cards. Combos well with Supply Squad.
o   Performapal Pendulum Sorcerer: Scale manipulation that promotes rank 4 plays. Searchable by 2 cards and can be continuously SS to search Joker.
o   Pendulum Call: Two card instant scale that provides protection and can discard Noble.
o   Sky Arc: Combos with Supply Squad and provides instant searches for Odd-Eyes and his fusion. Searchable by 1 card.)

I'm sorry? What does explaining the obvious about Joker prove?

Odd-Eyes can't be called a sangan due to having targets in the same range, as it's used very differently. It's also not themed, you're stretching. Being searchable by, in fact, 2 cards doesn't make it some godsend. It's still slow, unless you use it in conjunction with Sky Arc, which means you can't realistically call it a great searcher most days. It's a card that, in conjunction with Arc, offers you a mean to change your pendulums around, so you want Odd-Eyes in the deck. Sure, it searches, but that doesn't mean you can try to sell it as a point.

Why would you play Sorc? Unless you're techning mammothplash for Fusion, that sounds bad, because it's only really useful if you're exchanging it for 2 cards each search, and no other P-Pal has real synergy with Magicians.

Why are you playing Supply Squad in magicians? That sounds terrible. You only play it in P-Pal because of the many, many methods to set it off, and it's still not my favorite card in the world. I'm hoping this is just because you didn't understand how pendulums work.

And what do all these searchers add up to? Jack shit. Wiz/Sorc is out of place, and while I won't write it off completely, doesn't synergize with the rest of the deck beyond his type. Unless you're running more P-Pals than it and Skullcrobat, it's nothing but a slow means to plus, considering your only means to set it off is Pendulum Summoning, and this isn't a deck that can do attrition as I've said over and over.
 

Magicians don't have longevity, at all. If you open a bunch of pendulums, you either hold them all back or overextend. If you overextend, you lose. If you don't, you probably aren't devoting enough, especially considering the deck doesn't seem like it has a lot of room for traps. So you're faced with a paradigm that encourages you to open an absolute, and then, msot decks can still outplay that. ( All pendulum decks suffer this weakness including P-Pals, the difference is that they have a searchable card specifically designed to protect from summoning destruction, and a searchable card that recycles monsters. The fact that you couldn’t play traps with your original deck, comes down to how you originally designed. That doesn’t mean the deck can’t play traps. As it can play just as many traps as P-Pals. Any deck can just as easily play around your deck, including Magicians.)

not even going to tackle the first part, already did that

As for your point about P-Pal... No, you're incorrect. With P-Pal, you aren't blindly overxtending. You shit your advantage onto the board, use it to find more advantage, then make King Feral/Lavalval/do your scale exchanging to bring your hand back. You overxtend for the moment, but not in the long run. You don't just lose that advantage to a nuke. And that was the point about longevity. Magicians cant' do that, they simply lose their advantage, unless they have Sky Arc. Even then, it probably takes luck to recover.

As for traps in magician, don't make assumptions. I did try to use traps in the deck, but they felt really poor and as if I should just use more monsters in their stead. And you can't really use floodgates like Skill Drain, because, as I said, Magicians have fairly poor stats all around. Sure, Odd-Eyes has good stats and Dragonvein is decent, but then what do you do when they summon something bigger? P-Pal have cards to make up for their low stats, which makes Skill Drain, albeit limited, live. If the deck had traps that actually did things that they could use, I'd concede this point, but it doesn't. I mean, I'd actually say Veiler's better in Magicians than Fiendish/BTS, for example.

Yes, Veiler's still a trap in a sense, but it doesn't really increase your longevity overall. It just makes you the teensiest bit lesws vulnerable, provided you actually drew it... Which this deck can't do. It has tons of search, but no draw, and that is a legitimate concern as well, which makes backrow worse still.
 

That's a bold-faced lie. They make incredibly linear plays for the most part. Namely Xyz, occasional Synchro, constant Pendulum Summoning. Having options is not a variety of plays, nor can they do so as easily as you imply. (Whether you consider it versatility or not, you can’t deny Magicians have greater options than P-Pals. They have access to Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Pendulum while P-Pals rarely if every have the ability to perform fusions.  You criticized the deck for being linear while you own deck is even more so.)

Why does the lack of fusions in P-Pal mean... anything? Sure, they have 'greater options', which pretty much amounts to 2 usable Fusions, one of which is out of theme, a few synchros, and a some Xyz, which the deck lacks the proper room to cover all the options for. It has options, yes, but that is not versatility, that is merely ED options. The deck is still very, very linear.

When did I say P-pals weren't somewhat linear? It's about abusing the fuck out of your scales, finding Sorc/wiz and Joker, and going ham. Trying to discredit my argument by claiming I claimed anything but is nothing but a self-righteous attempt to win the argument. Ergo, I don't think you have confidence in what you posted at all, so you attempted 'moral highground', which you have done multiple /imes in this post.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, because no one cares about some fabricated moral highground.
 

I mean, yeah, you can run Wizard/Sorc, but that's just an engine for your searcher, and the more you mix... the less they blend, considering the magician scale restrictions on their effects (or scales) and cards like Lizardraw, which is one of the biggest reasons to play P-Pals. (The decks themselves are clearly meant to cooperate as shown by Joker and by the decks main user in the anime.)

ITT: what konami intends is what happens, without fail

And use paragraphs, no one wants to read ugly ass walls of text, it's just uncouth.

I won't claim P-Pals are the best deck, as they're far from it. But I'm not going to delude myself into ignoring the issues my deck has and either claim they're not there OR redirect it to someone pointing out flaws. Not every deck you like is going to be the best deck, so learn that now and stop trying moral arguments when you're faltering.

[AnnieShifter]

See, you're grasping at straws now if you're tring to play semantics.

Glass cannon means it forces through, and if it fails, loses. Having S/T removal isn't "protection". Are hieratics not a glass cannon? Oversight's protection lasts for one turn, again as a glass cannon would. Call only matters if you already have the scales out, and, surprise surprise, you'll be using at least the first copy to find your optimal scales, meaning that it's not actually protection until later, nor does it prevent cards like Castel or Ignister Prominence for wrecking your setup.

Ignister also laughs at Arc, which is the only legitimate 'protection' card you mentioned. You've supplied a half baked understanding of terminology and attempted to argue semantics in a way that, quite clearly, failed. Even then, and I'll come back to this, it doesn't really stop the glass cannon nature either.

Scale Durability is still a stupid buzzword according to how you expanded, considering you are, again, jsut proving how the deck is weak in that regards and has to keep scales consistent 9/10. Why is it better to keep scale targets on the board instead of swapping them out for safety? That's more in-built protection than magicians have, easily, because it means you don't just lose to boardwipes. Sky Arc blocks MST, but it certainly doesn't block nukes... If anything, it makes you more susceptible, provided you're out of Odd-Eyes to find.

It's not hypocritical, it's you not using critical thinking.
 
I never said that. YOU keep trying to put words in my mouth, so buck up.

I said you can choose to keep the scals. You have nothing but stationary low scales, unless you manually kill them, and your high scales are also mostly stationary. For example, Dragoknight Luster Pendulum can stay a couple turns before it goes, becaue it offers protection and advantage to the other side.

You're throwing a statement out, but where's your proof? You keep claiming a lack of inherent protection is there with P-Pal, but they outlast Magicians. Magicians lose to nukes, removal, etc., whereas P-Pal put at least one of their scales, if not both, into their hand when they end their plays. How is being in the hand less 'protected' than on the board?

 
Ah ah, now you're taking parts of arguments and ignoring the underlying substance.

Wiz/Sorc turns your board Pendulums into Pendulums in your hand. Can he do that in magicians? Unless you search Mammothplash + Joker, he cannot. You also assume things incorrectly with your claims.

Only two cards? Ignister Prominence and Sky Arc. One's in the ED and one's a spell, but they're there. Ignister is much more likely to be summoned in P-Pal than Magicians, and Sky Arc speaks for itself, though both can use it.
 
see now i think you're just an idiot.

Supply Squad has no synergy with Lizardraw. At all. Where in the hell did you get that idea? Pendulum Spells are not monsters, destroying them does not bombo.

Next up... Okay, Insight works if you have a clear Pendulum Zone, just like Lizardraw. The difference being that you have 1 means to clear it, without negging yourself, and P-Pal have up to 3 ways that aren't Lizardraw, who clears up the zone himself, unlike Insight.

Then there's the fact that a draw is in no way inherently worse than isntantly setting a scale. If Insight searched the Magician, I'd be willing to give you this point despite it still not being strictly better, but the fact that it places it on the scale immediately defuses your point entirely.

Don't get me wrong, Insight Magician's a great card, but you're being really presumptuous when you call it superior to Lizardraw beyond a shadow of a doubt.

as for "The deck doesn’t have nearly as much scale manipulation as you let on."... Sure, if you wanna be super literal.

You have to factor how a deck actually runs into a claim. And you don't really end your turn with full scales, ever.

Dragoknight Luster Pendulum, Lizardraw, Sky Arc, Odd-Eyes himself, Ignister, Meteorburst, Wiz/Sorc... you only end with full scales when you chosoe to end with full scales, really. You try to use literal cardcount as an excuse, but I just named 14-15 cards in the main and 4 in the ED that consistently edit your scales. Some of which are stupid easy to find. And that's what the deck spends its time doing. Do a little research, huh?
 
No, it doesn't show that. It shows that you can't think critically.

It's an option. Sure, its scale value is lower than its NS Value... but when it enables you to get extra plusses from the ED, is that not value in and of itself? No, it's not the best scale, but it is always an option. If you're going to scoff at options that exist, you don't value the cards you play adequately at all. Being able to make a play is better than adhering to strict value demands you set.

It locks out your 3 Dragoknights, and in exchange, opens up your 2-3 Odd-Eyes. How terrible. Not an even exchange at all.

As for Noble Dragon Magician... okay? Being discard fodder makes her better, for sure, but summoning odd-eyes isn't that strange so she reduces him as another hand summon at times, though not so much from the grave bar using Foolish. And, see, here's the brilliant thing about her in P-Pal: She DOES return to the deck. You tried to sell this as a drawback, but it's not especially so.

Joker searches her back immediately. An Odd-Eyes can find her again. The latter means you have a turn with an empty scale, which is what you want. Sure, staying in the ED would be better, but returning to the deck is hardly a damper most days, as you just need her to perform her purpose for the time she's there, then find her again when you need her again. You don't need to Synchro every turn, so saying she returns to the deck means your point wins... is a poor argument.
 
Prove one contradiction. The fact you didn't point it out tells me you are, again, using empty words to prove your point. You're failing.

They don't rely on Supply Squad, not at all. I'll cover that more later, but you're assuming far too much.

Rely on specific cards? I claimed nothing of the sort. You really, really need to read better.

I claimed that they cannot recover, as there is a paradox with how they play. I said they're glass cannon. I never once mentioned them requiring specific cards.

I never claimed magician rely on power cards, either. I called them glass cannon because they spam a lot and OTK like any given pendulum deck... not a ton else. They just summon a lot of monsters, but none of the monsters are especially awesome. You can use them for ED summons, sure, but your monsters are all pretty s*** on their own. The only one with really decent stats is Dragonvein, and he's only a Level 4. Well, Odd-Eyes as well, but that means you have to have found multiple Odd-Eyes, which is not as easy as finding your magicians by any means. And please, don't try to claim that about P-Pal, considering low scales are all abotu stats... especially Wiz/Sorc.

You have Vortex, but when you actually spend resources on that card, it isn't the best. Only worth it off of Absolute or ED-Only Odd-Eyes Fusion.

You have Absolute, but unless you can fill your board with beaters in addition to him, it doesn't matter as most decks remove it easily. If your opponent has a good set up, even the full board won't save you.

You have Clear Wing, but that still lose to boardwipes of any kind.
 
Here you go again, using empty semantics.

I said your deck was more consistent at setting scales... Not more consistent at winning. I'm not going to argue that a deck with a themed, nearly unrestricted Onomatopaira and such is going to have zero trouble setting scales, but that doesn't mean it's consistently going to make power plays. You are really trying to stretch the meaning of consistent in an attempt to sell your point, but sorry, it failed.
 
I'm sorry? What does explaining the obvious about Joker prove?

Odd-Eyes can't be called a sangan due to having targets in the same range, as it's used very differently. It's also not themed, you're stretching. Being searchable by, in fact, 2 cards doesn't make it some godsend. It's still slow, unless you use it in conjunction with Sky Arc, which means you can't realistically call it a great searcher most days. It's a card that, in conjunction with Arc, offers you a mean to change your pendulums around, so you want Odd-Eyes in the deck. Sure, it searches, but that doesn't mean you can try to sell it as a point.

Why would you play Sorc? Unless you're techning mammothplash for Fusion, that sounds bad, because it's only really useful if you're exchanging it for 2 cards each search, and no other P-Pal has real synergy with Magicians.

Why are you playing Supply Squad in magicians? That sounds terrible. You only play it in P-Pal because of the many, many methods to set it off, and it's still not my favorite card in the world. I'm hoping this is just because you didn't understand how pendulums work.

And what do all these searchers add up to? Jack s***. Wiz/Sorc is out of place, and while I won't write it off completely, doesn't synergize with the rest of the deck beyond his type. Unless you're running more P-Pals than it and Skullcrobat, it's nothing but a slow means to plus, considering your only means to set it off is Pendulum Summoning, and this isn't a deck that can do attrition as I've said over and over.
 
not even going to tackle the first part, already did that

As for your point about P-Pal... No, you're incorrect. With P-Pal, you aren't blindly overxtending. You s*** your advantage onto the board, use it to find more advantage, then make King Feral/Lavalval/do your scale exchanging to bring your hand back. You overxtend for the moment, but not in the long run. You don't just lose that advantage to a nuke. And that was the point about longevity. Magicians cant' do that, they simply lose their advantage, unless they have Sky Arc. Even then, it probably takes luck to recover.

As for traps in magician, don't make assumptions. I did try to use traps in the deck, but they felt really poor and as if I should just use more monsters in their stead. And you can't really use floodgates like Skill Drain, because, as I said, Magicians have fairly poor stats all around. Sure, Odd-Eyes has good stats and Dragonvein is decent, but then what do you do when they summon something bigger? P-Pal have cards to make up for their low stats, which makes Skill Drain, albeit limited, live. If the deck had traps that actually did things that they could use, I'd concede this point, but it doesn't. I mean, I'd actually say Veiler's better in Magicians than Fiendish/BTS, for example.

Yes, Veiler's still a trap in a sense, but it doesn't really increase your longevity overall. It just makes you the teensiest bit lesws vulnerable, provided you actually drew it... Which this deck can't do. It has tons of search, but no draw, and that is a legitimate concern as well, which makes backrow worse still.
 
Why does the lack of fusions in P-Pal mean... anything? Sure, they have 'greater options', which pretty much amounts to 2 usable Fusions, one of which is out of theme, a few synchros, and a some Xyz, which the deck lacks the proper room to cover all the options for. It has options, yes, but that is not versatility, that is merely ED options. The deck is still very, very linear.

When did I say P-pals weren't somewhat linear? It's about abusing the f*** out of your scales, finding Sorc/wiz and Joker, and going ham. Trying to discredit my argument by claiming I claimed anything but is nothing but a self-righteous attempt to win the argument. Ergo, I don't think you have confidence in what you posted at all, so you attempted 'moral highground', which you have done multiple /imes in this post.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, because no one cares about some fabricated moral highground.
 
ITT: what konami intends is what happens, without fail

And use paragraphs, no one wants to read ugly ass walls of text, it's just uncouth.

I won't claim P-Pals are the best deck, as they're far from it. But I'm not going to delude myself into ignoring the issues my deck has and either claim they're not there OR redirect it to someone pointing out flaws. Not every deck you like is going to be the best deck, so learn that now and stop trying moral arguments when you're faltering.

Seems more like a lecture than anything else although it does have the occasional parts that tease and desire a reaction. There is no reason to continue arguing with you, it's pretty obvious that you've won. I simply lack the ability to convincingly right a factual response. I realize I may not be the best and most organized writer, but I am only a sixteen year old adolescent who is still trying to learn and improve.  Robin I really wonder sometimes, why you and I nearly always are on opposite ends of a conversation and topic. I now know for certain, that it is because you and I are so innately different in character and ideals.