Silverdust Dragun

[evil cucumber]

 

1 Tuner + 2 or more non-Tuner monsters

When this card is Synchro Summoned: You can shuffle all other monsters on the field into the Deck. When this card is destroyed by an opponent's card effect: You can shuffle all Spell/Trap Cards on the field into the Deck.

[evil cucumber]

bump

[Nine Breaker]

Maybe 'Blackdust' would be more fitting than 'Silverdust'. Either way he's pretty brutal and scary. What you'd expect from a 10 star heavyweight. Dragun would probably help against some pendulum decks. Maybe make his requirements something like '1 [attribute or type] tuner' or '2 or more non tuners' to make it a little harder to summon.

[Saiba Aisu]

This is a pretty damn powerful card... I can see how you went for the Level 10 restriction to make him a bit harder to get access too, but when you consider how easily certain Decks can pull him... Rayden + Destiny Hero Malicious equals this baby, just off the top of my head. Maybe make it that he can shuffle up to a certain number of cards, rather than all of them...

[evil cucumber]

This is a pretty damn powerful card... I can see how you went for the Level 10 restriction to make him a bit harder to get access too, but when you consider how easily certain Decks can pull him... Rayden + Destiny Hero Malicious equals this baby, just off the top of my head. Maybe make it that he can shuffle up to a certain number of cards, rather than all of them...

I made this based on how some of the strongest meta decks would handle such situation. I dont think its broken/overpowered, honestly i think its better as a Towers-out than any other thing ppl may think.

Please do note that all its effs also affect your cards. So if you re gonna use those effs, you better have an empty field, which after resolving it, its just a 2900 beater.

 

As for the shuffle part, really, after severe formats with Raigeki free, everyone should know that overxtending without any backup is just dumb. Thats not hard to counter too. At most, your opponent meta deck will only trade 1-2 extremely replaceable mpnsters for you to spend valuable resources and make this. So this is far from overwhelming.

[Saiba Aisu]

Like I said, this guy isn't that difficult to form using standard Light/Dark Synchro Materials.. And then they stick around in the Graveyard to be banished/used for other SS Monsters. I'm just saying this is in basis of the Madolche boss monster and the Gishki boss monster - both are pretty difficult to get out, and their shuffling effects are much tamer than this (hardly any cards protect against being shuffled back into the Deck).

 

This also completely counters Shaddolls and Yang Zing...

[Astolfo]

This is far, far too powerful.

Use it as a generic nuke with whatever you can afford to lose.

Then just kill him and completely wipe their field, and then kill them by making your own field set up again and either OTK them or come close to it.

 

Either way, it's a non-targeting, non-destruction mass field-wipe.

 

Just, no.

 

This is like BRD on steroids in some ways, and that's not good.

 

I dont think its broken/overpowered

 

You think wrong.

 

honestly i think its better as a Towers-out than any other thing ppl may think.

 

Making a card just as a Towers-out is horrible logic.

Thats not hard to counter too.

 

You're wrong. Almost nothing can prevent itself from being shuffled back into the deck without being targeted.

Let alone backrow, which is a huge force in game.

 

At most, your opponent meta deck will only trade 1-2 extremely replaceable mpnsters for you to spend valuable resources and make this. So this is far from overwhelming.

 

You're wrong. Sure, they might be replaceable, but they're not extremely replaceable, and wiping the field for even one turn like this without even losing the very Synchro you just made, unlike BRD, is horrible design. And it's not valuable resources to make this. So no, it's far from not overwhelming.

[Saiba Aisu]

Yeah that's the first thought I had too, "Black Rose Dragon on steroids..." If you made this card shuffle itself back into the Deck, then it would be a lot more balanced.

[Astolfo]

If it shuffled itself back into the deck, that's still immensely strong.

Also, you could just use its second effect instead to get rid of their backrow, Synchro it back out, get rid of their monsters, and then use what you have in the hand to swing your new monsters back out and kill your opponent or come close.

 

Even if you don't use its effect twice, make it at least somewhat like Trish (1 Tuner + 2 Non-Tuners), I'd say.

And give a hard OPT, so that you can't use its effect twice.
Also, complete backrow removal by non-targeting shuffling is way too strong.

 

Backrow is extremely important and this is a "funk you" to that.

 

There's a reason Harpy's Feather Duster/Heavy Storm/Trunade/etc are all banned.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

First off, backrow is not extremely important in the majority of decks these days.

 

Second off, monsters are.

 

Make this a shuffly level 10 BRD that requires 3 materials (so it shuffles everything on synchro summon, including itself) and I am cool with it. 

[Astolfo]

Not to the decks themselves, but they certainly help a lot of situations, which is why stuff like Raigeki is okay but stuff like Harpy's Feather Duster isn't.

Backrow is almost the entirety of any counters a deck can have, since besides hand/grave traps and effects, there's nothing else that can protect them besides sheer stats by battle, which mean almost nothing with all the possible card effects and other ways of getting around high ATK nowadays.

[evil cucumber]

This is far, far too powerful.

Use it as a generic nuke with whatever you can afford to lose.

Then just kill him and completely wipe their field, and then kill them by making your own field set up again and either OTK them or come close to it.

 

Either way, it's a non-targeting, non-destruction mass field-wipe.

 

Just, no.

 

This is like BRD on steroids in some ways, and that's not good.

 

 

 

Eh, you think its very probable youll summon this then kill him to shuffle the rest of the s;t back. But honestly, that would be the only completely over the boards play with him, so ill change it to "an opponent's card effect" to balance it then. (the picture will stay the same tho...dont feel like editing it now)

 

 

As for the rest, im still not convinced, its not like after wiping your opp monster zone youll always have a way to OTK easily.

 

And for the rest of the non-CnC stuff,verbally assuming someone is wrong multiple times can make the whole discussion environment get really uninteresting to continue.

[Flare909]

He's not completely wrong I could get over shuffling monsters into deck, but not 2nd effect shuffling traps/spells into deck, make a smart cost for this effect to setup. Your card right now is essentially a heavy storm and dark hole all in one effect; except that cards are being shuffled in decks.

 

It has generic summoning requirements; any smart duelist can easily dedicate decks to utilize this card potential to no end, if it was a real printed card, it would be banned like chaos emperor dragon.

Add flavour to your effect and make it unique.

[Astolfo]

What do you not get about non-targeting shuffling removal being one of the most powerful types of removal there are in the whole game?

And on top of that, you only need 2 monsters to make this, which isn't even hard to do.

And what do you get when you do that? You get to wipe half of your opponent's entire damn board off the map.

How is that not broken?

 

And if you annihilate their monsters like that, the only chance of a counter they have is either Solemn/BTH'ing your summons afterwards (both are limited cards and almost no card that would let them be reused exists or is actually used in any form), or using Mirror Force or something of the sort (also unlikely, given it's probably a 2/3 out of 20-30 card chance at that point in mid/late game).

Sure, it might not be an OTK, but it's going to hurt pretty damn bad, and will probably make them lose anyways within the next 2-3 turns.

 

Also, making it opponent's card effect clause isn't much better, because then now you can sit on a wall that almost nothing can remove safely (save for Compulsory or Castel, the former of which is limited and the latter of which almost no one runs more than one copy of). And you have a 2900 wall that almost nothing can get over without using some sort of card effect. Sure, you can't set it off yourself, but that's not much of a difference.

 

And this thing still would probably be good with a hard OPT, to prevent possible further abusing of its effect, whether or not the second effect needs your opponent.

 

Mass-removal like this is incredibly strong, and you need to understand that something like that needs actual drawbacks and doesn't just lead to killing your opponent right after.

And like I mentioned before, at least make it a 3-mat Synchro, for the love of everything good and pure.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Not to the decks themselves, but they certainly help a lot of situations, which is why stuff like Raigeki is okay but stuff like Harpy's Feather Duster isn't.

Backrow is almost the entirety of any counters a deck can have, since besides hand/grave traps and effects, there's nothing else that can protect them besides sheer stats by battle, which mean almost nothing with all the possible card effects and other ways of getting around high ATK nowadays.

 

This is a false assumption. Raigeki is not okay.

 

Look at decks these days? They run very little backrow. This is because we are currently in a very monster-based format. Backrow removal is inherently weaker than monster removal.

 

Anyway, that is vastly off-topic.

 

A level 10 three-mat shuffling BRD is fine is my book.

[Astolfo]

Sorry, I should've phrased that better.

Why Raigeki is unbanned, not okay.

 

As compared to why stuff like HFD is still banned.

 

Besides all the stuff with Koomy being a dumbass.

[Flare909]

All effects must have a good requirement to activate; just saying if this card destroyed by card effect is a joke; with multitude of cards today, your effect gotta be unique and not boring, being not boring isn't essential but you have a base effect to start off to craft this card into super good card, I won't give my suggestions as others told you the things you need to alter on your card, but it's your originality, and I believe you can spice up this card way better than this, good luck

[evil cucumber]

What do you not get about non-targeting shuffling removal being one of the most powerful types of removal there are in the whole game?

And on top of that, you only need 2 monsters to make this, which isn't even hard to do.

And what do you get when you do that? You get to wipe half of your opponent's entire damn board off the map.

How is that not broken?

 

And if you annihilate their monsters like that, the only chance of a counter they have is either Solemn/BTH'ing your summons afterwards (both are limited cards and almost no card that would let them be reused exists or is actually used in any form), or using Mirror Force or something of the sort (also unlikely, given it's probably a 2/3 out of 20-30 card chance at that point in mid/late game).

Sure, it might not be an OTK, but it's going to hurt pretty damn bad, and will probably make them lose anyways within the next 2-3 turns.

 

Also, making it opponent's card effect clause isn't much better, because then now you can sit on a wall that almost nothing can remove safely (save for Compulsory or Castel, the former of which is limited and the latter of which almost no one runs more than one copy of). And you have a 2900 wall that almost nothing can get over without using some sort of card effect. Sure, you can't set it off yourself, but that's not much of a difference.

 

And this thing still would probably be good with a hard OPT, to prevent possible further abusing of its effect, whether or not the second effect needs your opponent.

 

Mass-removal like this is incredibly strong, and you need to understand that something like that needs actual drawbacks and doesn't just lead to killing your opponent right after.

And like I mentioned before, at least make it a 3-mat Synchro, for the love of everything good and pure.

I cant believe in all these bad examples you gave, most of them arent even used. Before talkin meta things id like to point that Fiendish Chain/BtS/Effect Veiler are also good cards and probably more used than the above mentioned ones.

 

Lets think outside the box, its not a real rule that all non targeting mass removal are all bad design, that of course depends on the meta. I honestly dont care if Yang Zings or other non meta gets wrecked hard by this. Thats like saying Naturia Beast is overpowered against Spellbooks.

 

-nekroz: unless they dont have unicore on the field then they wont leave free targets for an opponents raigeki if theyre not going for an otk. so i think theyre ok with this

 

-qli: could get hurt, but not to the point they couldnt do anything more, they tend to end turn with tributed monsters on the extra.

 

-ba: see above

 

-tellar: the heavy backrow should take care of this, if they have none then their hand probably is full of replaceable things

 

-shaddolls: the most prone to losing after getting their monsters wiped, also because they have no much ways to get rid of this aside of eff destruction. Ironically theyre the one of the meta that can synch this easier than the others

 

is there something wrong with trying to give other relevant synchro to the meta that is not trish but can be as powerful as such

 

EDIT: Made it a 3 mat synch. Hope it is still good now.

[Astolfo]

This is far, far more powerful than Trish.

There is something incredibly wrong with giving a card like this to the meta as is, without any of the changes suggested by me or anyone else up above.

 

Veiler is rarely used.

Chain and BTS exist, yes.

Most people only run one or the other.

It's 2/3 cards out of 40.

Yeah, no.

 

I think you really need to learn about meta again.

 

For Nekroz: Without their Ritual spells (if they've already used them up), shuffling their Rituals back into the deck as well as any other monsters they might have is practically killing them.

Because the Rituals will stay in the Grave, and probably all their searchers will be in the grave as well, at that point. The only way they'd recover is by Unicore'ing the stuff in the grave.

 

For Qli: I'm not going to pretend I know them well since I haven't used them enough. But these are a Pendulum deck. Sure, Scout can search them back out, but the main point is they're either in the Field or in the Extra Deck, sending them back all to Main Deck is devastating since they'd need to recover all that (probably with Monolith+Scout).

 

For BA: They all benefit off being sent to the Grave, sending them back to the MD is an issue, besides milling them back out. I know BAs even less than Qlis however, so correct me Giga if you will/want.

 

Tellars: Sure, these would probably be mostly fine, given how they have searchers and a huge backrow that can help recover, but that's not a good reason or support to believe this card is okay in any form as is.

 

Shaddolls: Yay, let's completely devastate the deck. Without destroying the Fusions, they won't get their spells back. Without their spells back, they're not going to do much.

 

So yes, there's nothing wrong with giving relevant Synchros that are strong, but not ridiculous.

Giving something like this to the meta is absurd.

Trish is at least somewhat better since it needs 3 materials meaning not too many decks can abuse it, and for those that do, they get the nice banishing removal, which is still strong.

[Queen of the Abyss]

The problem with comparing this Trish is it is considerably easier to make, and this card is considerably better for absolutely no reason at all. The easiest way to achieve this card? Falco + Construct. This isn't hard to do at all. As mentioned, Mali + Raiden is another option that is particularly strong, as is Labadorite + Dragard if you want to consider less relevant/bad plays. All of these essentially use only 2 cards to make it. Comparing it to Leo, this is straight up a 2900 direct attack with a float on top of it that clears backrow. Leo has a lot of field presence, but this card is essentially the middle finger to everything. This card is particularly strong because it basically says "I get a huge direct attack, and if you have an out, I will take out your backrow at the same time". As said, making this require 2 Non Tuners would be a lot better, following making it straight up BRD where it shuffles itself. Your point with BA is very moot, and as a BA player myself, I can say unless I added a Tour Guide or I have Karma Cut, you best scoop to this card. Raigeki is a huge card already, and having it turn into a full on shuffle is just plain nuts. It isn't realistic to compare it to Trish, nor is it realistic to put this on the level of Leo, it is better as it is rn, and thus I think it needs a bit of a brush up if you ask me.

[evil cucumber]

@queen thanks for feedback and good clarification. I honestly have nothing more to say about, people still think otherwise. Time to just accept this all as a matter of common concern. As you may have seen already in my comment edit, turned it into a 3 mat synch.

 

 

Anyway, the reason why i wasnt up to make the other sugested changes is because it honestly felt like other posters were just trying to change the card based on personal thoughts with no enough proof or facts that could prove this is rly this overpowered.

 

Now i cant think of any decks that could consistently make this, i only hope its still playable. Something about this whole conversation makes me dont wanna let it be repeated. Maybe thats the sense of self improving. Still liked to talk to you guys, i really gave the best of my crappy english to keep all i said understandable.

[Queen of the Abyss]

@queen thanks for feedback and good clarification. I honestly have nothing more to say about, people still think otherwise. Time to just accept this all as a matter of common concern. As you may have seen already in my comment edit, turned it into a 3 mat synch.

 

 

Anyway, the reason why i wasnt up to make the other sugested changes is because it honestly felt like other posters were just trying to change the card based on personal thoughts with no enough proof or facts that could prove this is rly this overpowered.

 

Now i cant think of any decks that could consistently make this, i only hope its still playable. Something about this whole conversation makes me dont wanna let it be repeated. Maybe thats the sense of self improving. Still liked to talk to you guys, i really gave the best of my crappy english to keep all i said understandable.

No problem. I still would make this a BRD though rather than a straight monster wipe with a direct attack attached to it. The reason being in this case is even though now it is tougher to make, you still have ways to do that aren't directly hard. It won't be there for now, but Post-DOCS, Yuki + Jigobyte + Tricklown would be a way to make this, as is a few other ways in Magicians. If you want to be fancy in Clownblade, Mathman + Tricklown + Yuki does the same. (I think this card would make Mathman an option in the Deck if it isn't already now) The later of these combos is still a 2 card play, which is where it gets frisky to leave such a powerful move. Sure, it is much harder to pull off quickly, but it can be arranged and made. You still would have a monster quite the power, and it would be huge in Magician especially as mentioned above, but it wouldn't have the unstable situations where this basically closes the doors on a bit too many Decks.

[Astolfo]

Direct attack is a hell no.

For the second effect, I'd maybe suggest making it shuffle all your S/T, and then shuffle an equal amount of your opponent's S/T, instead of just indiscriminately all of them (meaning you could just not set any and then nuke them and then use/set all of yours, or otherwise minimize your own damage while crushing their chances of responding at all).