Jump to content

Archetype Generator Meta


Draconus297

Recommended Posts

Yeah, my bad. And there's not other summoning condition either (there is another one with no material line, but it has a condition for special summon...). Too bad, I whould had given it a shot to be used, as I found my turn around for that card...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 4.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Hey Im back. Not nearly on here as much as I used to, but I've been making cards. Made a way to Xyz Spam in Link Formats without Links and still have a pretty cool mechanic, aka...

 

Xyz Summoning the materials attached to another Xyz Monster

 

I'll be posting it once I'm done testing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "treated as 2 Materials" thing was anime-only for a reason. It brings up a lot of weird rulings questions, especially regarding things that detach multiple Materials for effects. All anime cards that acted for two Materials were changed to Summoning another member of the archetype, usually on-Summon.

 

Other than that, it's a pretty neat idea. Impractical as all hell, and the effect text is making my eyes bleed with how inconsistent it is with capitalization and following effect text standards, but the idea is there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ehhhh that was only Double Lance, which is the only card of that kind in the anime (at least thats what I believe). It's probably getting thrown off the card anyways, as I barely use it, and feel it might be a bit invasive if I make it a Spell/Trap searcher and a instant Rank 3/4 Xyz. Idk I might find a better compromise than that but for now its staying, as I feel "anime only" effects are a myth.

 

The capitalization is due to some screwiness with the Xyz Material --> material errata, which in some cases works but in others doesn't. If there's anything else with the capitalizations it would be cool to tell me where (because that's just going to get on my nerves if I can't find them).

 

Also note that this was made for Link Format. This mechanic was made because Xyz Summoning from materials doesn't count as a Extra Deck Summon, giving you ways to Xyz Spam into the Main Monster Zones without having to run Link Monsters. I get I'm putting this in the AGM, but I'm also using it for the DPR which is Link Format.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was also Double Fin Shark, Photon Satellite, Cipher Twin Raptor, Xyz Remora, Battlin' Boxer Switchitter, and Raidraptor - Retrofit Lanius off the top of my head. Probably a few more. Double Material monsters exist only in the anime.

 

Queue:

Performapal (2/3 - Kyumi, Champion)

Odd-Eyes (2/3 - Kyumi, Dova)

Majespecter (2/3 - Sakura, Nyx)

lswarm, bar Origin and Ophion (2/4 - Nyx, Dova)

Elementsaber/Elemental Lord (2/3 - Sakura, Melon)

Dracoslayer/Dracoverlord, bar Amorphactor Pain (2/3 - Melon, Sakura)

Metalfoes, bar Electrumite (2/3 - Sakura, Dova)

Galaxy, bar "Number 38: Hope Harbinger Dragon Titanic Galaxy", "Number 42: Galaxy Tomahawk", "Number 62: Galaxy-Eyes Prime Photon Dragon", "Number 83: Galaxy Queen", "Number 90: Galaxy-Eyes Photon Lord", "Number 95: Galaxy-Eyes Dark Matter Dragon", "Number 107: Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon", and "Number 107: Neo Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon"(2/4 - Sakura, Draconus)

Lightsworn, bar Curious (1/3 - Kyumi)

Qli, bar Genius (1/3 - Dova)

Zefra, bar Metaltron (1/3 - Dova)

 

Also, neither Tinkerer nor myself are allowed to approve it, but here's Intergaluster for AGM review, reposted so it can be seen:

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/371589-intergaluster-crystal-fusion-control/?p=7087459

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean the wording is solid. Taking it from the Double Tributers its pretty easy to do.

 

"This card can be treated as 2 Tributes for the Tribute Summon of a [...] monster."

 

"This card can be treated as 2 Tributes materials for the Tribute Xyz Summon of a [...] Xyz mMonster."

 

"This card can be treated as 2 materials for the Xyz Summon of a [...] Xyz Monster."

 

if you REALLY want to, you can specify level on it.

 

"This card can be treated as 2 Level x materials for the Xyz Summon of a (you could also add Rank here) [...] Xyz Monster."

 

I've done crazier things before. Unless there's something in particular stopping this from working or something in the archetype's balance that would rather me not have the effect I'd rather keep it, since this archetype is my exploration of Xyz Monsters in Link Format. This is a interesting part of Xyz Monsters as well, and I'd rather not be restricted by Konami's lack of confidence in the mechanic. If they can make Xyz Monsters that only need 1 material then I should be able to make monsters that can be treated as 2 materials.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was mostly due to things regarding monsters that required multiple detaches for an effect- can you use that effect, because it acts as 2 mats? There were also inherently bad interactions regarding monsters with stronger effects typically being gated behind multiple Materials, such as Shock Master. Or, hell, Normal Summon into Xyz Summon- Zoodiacs got neutered to high heaven on the banlist for more reasons than one.

 

Tl;dr it's a silly concept with awkward interactions and potentially damaging repercussions. That's why Konami didn't do it, that's why I don't do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was mostly due to things regarding monsters that required multiple detaches for an effect- can you use that effect, because it acts as 2 mats? There were also inherently bad interactions regarding monsters with stronger effects typically being gated behind multiple Materials, such as Shock Master. Or, hell, Normal Summon into Xyz Summon- Zoodiacs got neutered to high heaven on the banlist for more reasons than one.

 

Tl;dr it's a silly concept with awkward interactions and potentially damaging repercussions. That's why Konami didn't do it, that's why I don't do it.

While this is all very true, there are ways around this. For example, some cards like Xyz Crown allowed 1 Xyz monster to count as two monsters with levels. I believe I drafted up a version of this in my early days that might actually work. Let me see if...

 

AHA!

 

That should help somewhat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beyond the awkward text, your version of Xyz Crown does work with existing rulings. Basically, it's a Trap monster for an Xyz Summon- you can use those.

 

1 monster being two Materials is very different from investing a second, disruptable card that telegraphs exactly what you're doing, on top of already requiring you to have an Xyz monster.

 

It's a bad idea, Champion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taking Helkoar, if only to make something with another uniting gimmick to aid in speedy design.

 

Helkoar

 

Are you ready to just throw your hands up in defeat? You sure?

 

This FIRE Rock-Type archetype is just pure, unmitigated absurdity, for both because of what they can do and how many meme cards they can use to their advantage.

 

You see, while each Helkoar immediately Special Summons itself after being shuffled into the Deck, the main way you accomplish this in-archetype is a slow, grindy Continuous Spell that shuffles your monsters from the Graveyard into the Deck to banish cards from your opponent's hand one at a time. Yes, three of these can utterly ruin your opponent while giving you tolerable field presence (considering that none of them can Special Summon themselves, although a few can bring each other out with some setup) . . . but anyone who knows certain old cards knows exactly where this is going.

 

Reload becomes a Pendulum Summon that also refreshes your hand, Card Trader basically becomes an OPT Upstart that Summons out a monster, Localized Tornado low-key becomes a Soul Charge, Monster Recovery loses its cost, Jar of Avarice becomes "Soul Charge, then draw" . . . you get the point.

 

While excavation doesn't set their effects off as they basically never left the Deck to begin with, this makes Helkoar absurdly powerful and almost hilariously memey. Unfortunately, that's about where their monster uniqueness ends. Not counting their unifying clause, each one has some sort of monster spam/battle-related effect, sometimes both, and that's about it. Their Levels are kinda scattered, but that only means that you have quite a lot of variety available in your Extra Deck toolbox.

 

Most of their Traps are simple Graveyard support or consistency cards with secondary effects, and their Spells are all cheap ways to essentially revive a monster with a bonus effect going off, with the named example being the most powerful effect in the bunch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beyond the awkward text, your version of Xyz Crown does work with existing rulings. Basically, it's a Trap monster for an Xyz Summon- you can use those.

 

1 monster being two Materials is very different from investing a second, disruptable card that telegraphs exactly what you're doing, on top of already requiring you to have an Xyz monster.

 

It's a bad idea, Champion.

Alright, well, no harm in trying. Back to lurking!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a couple of ideas, but I need to make the challenge before even thinking on posting them. I'm still through the process of working my head around that. My personal chalenge is making the deck solely with the Generics, because I'm that crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The single most fun I have ever had when designing a card: The rulings-defying Disasterman, who can kill Kaijus before they Tribute him, can kill and steal Crystal Wing before it hits the field, steal plus off an opponent's Disk Commander, etc. In fact, the only monsters it can't stop are Rituals and Fusions being Summoned off Poly.

 

Disasterman

FIRE - Level 9 - Warrior/Fusion/Effect - 2200/1400

1 WIND monster + 1 FIRE monster + 1 EARTH monster

Cannot be destroyed by battle. Once per turn, during either player's turn, if a monster would be Summoned, or the effect of your opponent's monster activates, this monster can attack that monster (this effect can activate outside the Battle Phase). This monster gains the following effects if 1 or more monsters of the following Types was used as Fusion Material for this monster's Summon:

●Warrior: If this monster destroys your opponent's monster by battle, inflict damage to your opponent equal to the original ATK of the destroyed monster.

●Fiend: This monster gains 300 ATK and DEF for each card on the field.

●Rock: If this monster destroys your opponent's monster by battle, you can Special Summon the destroyed monster to your side of the field with its effects negated at the end of the Damage Step.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, you don't have to make Disasterman. It's just my personal favorite single card in that thread- if another boss or combo calls to you, by all means make something centered around it. If you look carefully, however, I scattered a bunch of cards around that help with either making it, or keeping it on board in a way that helps you use its effect consistently. Hell, the hardest of its three effects to give it is probably the Fiend one, because of the relative scarcity of non-Chaos (LIGHT/DARK) Fiends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the by, all the generic cards that have "Entrop/Entropy" are all legal for the March Challenge and happen to really like being in a deck of multiple Attributes.  You know, if you really wanna aim to do Disasterman.

 

I'm still debating myself if I wanna do the March Challenge.  I might end up just making a deck with a bunch of full-on engines to showcase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doing a bit of a Deck Highlight.

 

[spoiler=Equip Deck]

2 Iram the Wrathful Light
2 Mari the Gentle Darkness
1 Sword Master
1 Gilford the Legendary Aura King
3 Summoner Monk
3 Protector of the Blade
3 Backup Guardian
3 Thieving Mercenary
 
3 Ransacked Armory
3 Rapid Forging
2 Summoner Watch
2 Weapon Watch
2 Mask of Evil
2 Splinter Targe
2 Terraforming
2 Gravel Pit
1 Library of Sanctuary
1 Lunar Breaker Sanctum
1 Reinforcement of the Army
1 Monster Reborn

 
Equips are extremely powerful in the AGM.  However, what I think is probably one of the most powerfully useful cards in this kind of deck is actually Thieving Mercenary.  It is a level 3 DARK Warrior whose effect lets you tribute a monster that's equipped with an equip spell to special summon itself from the deck, but the coup de grace of its effect is that it re-equips the equip spell from the grave.  This lets you a) trigger equips' sent to grave effects, and b) lets you reuse any soft once per turn effects it may have.  Here, I used it alongside Summoner Watch (lets you search a monster with the same level, type & attribute as the equipped monster + lets you SS a monster when sent to grave), Weapon Watch (dice roll to excavate equips + recycles equips from grave), and Mask of Evil (surprise 500 point boost + massive burn effect when sent to grave [over 3000 damage when equipped to Protector of the Blade]).
 
Protector of the Blade in of itself is all kinds of crazy.  Adds an equip when summoned, adds a monster with 1700 ATK/DEF when sent to grave, SS's a monster with 1700 ATK/DEF from hand (the one you searched) by banishing itself.
 
Ideally, you want to:
Summon Protector > search Summoner Watch > Equip Summoner Watch to Protector
Use Summoner Watch to search Backup Guardian
Send Protector + Watch to grave > Summon Thieving Mercenary > equip Mercenary with Summoner Watch
Protector + Watch trigger > Summon Protector back with Watch > Protector searches a 1700 (either another copy of itself or Sword Master)
Newly Summoned Protector triggers > search another Equip
 
For those not keeping track, that's a +4 off a single summon.  Backup Guardian, though I didn't highlight it as much, is just as crazy because it can pseudo-search out Protector (via Summoner Watch) without using up your NS which enables you to do the above combo while leaving you with a board of 2 level 4s to Xyzs with.  Though I didn't design this deck to fully take advantage of these plusses, it is something that is easily possible.  Tour Guide of the Internet (can SS any level 3 from Deck with the downside that using it nerfs a monster that uses it as material), Lizard Thief LV4 (discard a card to steal a card from the opponent's hand), Cybernetic Blaster (Can search Cyberse cards), Hypersonic Duck (Ritual Support monster), and Steam Engine Whitesmoke (High level Machine support monster) among others are all targets that are searchable by Protector, enabling a smaller version of this engine to be used in decks that revolve around a monster that happens to have a 1700 ATK/DEF stat.
 
This has been another "lets try to find potentially powerful cards and make a deck that breaks and/or abuses them to no end!".  Tune in next time when I attempt to find and break whatever ritual support we have.  Or not.  I dunno.  Haven't looked much at our ritual pool.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeez. And to think that that Deck would qualify for the challenge if it wasn't for Summoner Monk, Terraforming, RotA, and Monster Reborn, none of which seem to be completely necessary for the Deck to function, and could hypothetically be replaced.

 

Still, though, while the Deck is incredibly fast, the mixed Levels, lack of many Tuners, and the very real possibility for a clunky hand of nothing but Equip Spells makes it a bit of an awkward Deck to run in the AGM, although Mari, Iram, and Gilford do provide some incredibly powerful boss presence for Equip-based Decks.

 

The definite potential for danger is there, but I think we're fine for now on the Equip Spell front- nothing breaks them yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I know Summoner Watch has a bit of an abusable design, so I wouldn't mind changing it up a little to keep it in check since it was my card.

 

The only other actively useful Equips that can be used to play around with alongside Mercenary in the generic pool (from what I see):

- Flip-Flops Version 3000 - Can SS a monster from the Grave but in face-down defense position.

- Obsidian Mask - Take control of a monster your opponent controls until the EP.

- Armodia Unit Artillery Drones - SS "Armodia" for free.  (There ya go, an easy way to bring it out)

 

There are others too, but they are a bit more conditional/low end.

 

The deck could have gone in several different directions with my iteration above near exclusively focused on the speed of the plays rather than the actual end result.  If I wanted to focus on a direction itself I could've:

- Made an Armodia deck using the above to get out a Drident to hinder opponent's plays + run Normals and some of the powerful Normal-supporting Equips.

- Run Discard Guardian as a searchable (1700 DEF) level 3 Tuner that can SS itself when discarded for Sync6/7 plays (or run Shield Gong)

- Make a Phantom Knights deck utilizing the end board of Mercenary + Summoner Watch to search out any of the level 3s.

- Focused on Extra Deck monsters that could be made via these plays.

- Make a Dragonna-bugeisha focused deck (some of the Dragonna supports have attributes that align with the plays the above deck makes: 1700 stats, level 4 EARTH Warrior, a means of using the excessive resources the equip plays produce, a non-dependence on their Normal Summon, etc.)

 

...among other things.  The problem isn't actually so much the equips, but how all the variable pieces fit together.  It just so happens that the equips are the catalyst to making the plays progress, but they can be replaced and ultimately still enable shenanigans because of the monsters.  If I'm being honest though, I recognized some of these pieces a while ago, but I just hadn't been able to put them all together because I'd been waiting for an end board to come around that cemented everything together, heh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...