evilfusion Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Okay, that was entertaining. [spoiler=Irrelevant Story trying to make Starve Venom look good] I was doing one of my semi-random self-Dueling matches, pitting my RDA Deck vs Fluffals, which was proxying Starve Venom just cuz. Fluffals had the worst luck ever, opening with Chain, Sabres, Poly, Fusion Recovery, and Factory. And yes, under those circumstances, I was aiming to bring out Starve Venom as a last resort, intending to use Sabres' revival effect to enable to "2 on Field" requirement. A turn or two later, the score was 9700 to 3900, with the RDA Deck controlling Crystal Wing and Goyo Guardian, and 1 Set card against Fluffal's clear board. In hand is Chain, King of the Swamp, Poly, Fusion Recovery, Factory. The Fluffal Deck manages to draw a Fluffal Sheep, and promptly fuses with King of the Swamp for Scissor Tiger, aiming to hit Crystal Wing and the Set card but Crystal Wing negates its effect and kills it (ATK: 4900). Uses Fusion Recovery to retrieve Poly and Sheep, plays Frightfur Factory, banishing Recovery to fuse Chain and Sheep for Frightfur Sheep. Chain grabs Frightfur Fusion, plays it to again fuse King of the Swamp and Sheep from Grave for Scissor Tiger, aiming to hit Crystal Wing and the Set card. Which is Breakthrough Skill, which chains and negates Tiger's effects. Plays Poly, fusing Sheep and Tiger for Starve Venom Fusion Dragon (ATK: 2800). Starve Venom's effect activates, gaining the current ATK of Crystal Wing. (ATK: 2800 -> 7700). Starve Venom activates its second effect, copying Crystal Wing's effects. Attacks Crystal Wing. Because the "when battling a Level 5+ monster" effect is mandatory, Starve Venom activates as Link 1, and Crystal Wing activates as Link 2. Resolving, Crystal Wing gains the current ATK of Starve Venom. (ATK: 4900 -> 12600). And then Starve Venom gains Crystal Wing's current ATK. (7700 -> 20300). Okay, so that's absolutely not evidence that Starve Venom is practical. But just the ATK buff effect can be utterly vicious in the right circumstances, as can the imprint. And I kind of wish the regular Fluffals were DARK instead of EARTH, because it's really easy to put 2 on the Field at once, and they want a Fusion option in case they get terrible luck with the Edge Imps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiji Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Wouldn't Fusion Sub have increased utility from Law and Pilgrim too (maybe 2) Throw in super poly and you have your three polys I'm just not sure why three cards with a draw mandate is that much worse than 4 cards to make f0, when the cards used to make Venom could have additional grave senergy to boot Problem with Kaiju is, Mill a Kaiju, you're not much worse off but you can't gain. Mill a Fusion sub and you /can/ make two Beatrice liveBecause you can play 3 Kaiju with a draw mandate and solve issues in more or less the same way and have the option to go into F0 in situations where you don't draw them. F0 is simple to make post beatrice as you can use Cir revived dantes (you aren't investing 4 cards to make f0 you are usually devoting free cards to make it post-Beatrice. I suppose OCG can't do it as easily given that Dante is at 1, but my point was not comparing F0 directly to Fusion Sub (the fact that you have the "draw mandate" just makes Fusion Sub even worse in that context especially when you are devoting an extra slot for Starve). I was contesting VCR's point where BA had trouble getting around 3000 beaters (no built-in method of) when in actuality you run F0 for that situation (best example is Kozmemes where they must have Kozmojo/Kaiju to out F0). I don't see milling a Kaiju as a problem so much as not seeing in the first place + the difference between milling either is pretty marginal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Because you can play 3 Kaiju with a draw mandate and solve issues in more or less the same way and have the option to go into F0 in situations where you don't draw them. F0 is simple to make post beatrice as you can use Cir revived dantes (you aren't investing 4 cards to make f0 you are usually devoting free cards to make it post-Beatrice. I suppose OCG can't do it as easily given that Dante is at 1, but my point was not comparing F0 directly to Fusion Sub (the fact that you have the "draw mandate" just makes Fusion Sub even worse in that context especially when you are devoting an extra slot for Starve). I was contesting VCR's point where BA had trouble getting around 3000 beaters (no built-in method of) when in actuality you run F0 for that situation (best example is Kozmemes where they must have Kozmojo/Kaiju to out F0). I don't see milling a Kaiju as a problem so much as not seeing in the first place + the difference between milling either is pretty marginal.My misunderstanding, sorry. I concur, that's a valid claim to make from my perspective. I don't think BA have ever had too much of a problem with just the attack Barriar to be quite honest (which might be besides the point), cause of access to cards like Virgil and Break Sword Even for protected cards like Dark Destroyer (and other Target Immune cards) & Towers (not that relevant) there have been techs like Crane/HTS/Trish or more indirect methods like skill drain (the best option is Kaiju when they're imported). Would you give Starve some merit from its super-poly interactions? In the worse case it's a free lv8 that you can burn off BreakSword? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Time to talk about how much they nerfed this: -It originally needed any 2 DARKs, and the first effect worked if you only used Monsters on the field.-It gained the ATK of every SS'ed monster-It neated whatever effect it stole-If it nuked, it dealt the total ATK of everything it killed as damage Yeah, I wish we got that version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~British Soul~ Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 *re-watches episode 91*funk, I forgot that Yuri summoned SVFD using cards in his hand in that episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Time to talk about how much they nerfed this: -It originally needed any 2 DARKs, and the first effect worked if you only used Monsters on the field.-It gained the ATK of every SS'ed monster-It neated whatever effect it stole-If it nuked, it dealt the total ATK of everything it killed as damage Yeah, I wish we got that version. I'm not sure how you know this, but WOW. Anime Starve Venom is pure evil. Just imagine what the upgrade would be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'm not sure how you know this, but WOW. Anime Starve Venom is pure evil. Just imagine what the upgrade would be like.NAC and the Wiki are how I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I've actually been confused why Starve Venom doesn't negate the effect it steals, since most other cards that imprint effects do (No.8, Majestic Star, etc). Guess it was just another facet of the understandable nerf it needed if that was the anime effect. And that also explains why its Summon Condition is so awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldry_lord Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Trump Girl + an "Odd-Eyes" monster is one of the best ways of Summoning Starve Venom, but Odd-Eyes Vortex is better overall. I can only see this changing if we get more Level 5 or higher monsters in the meta with Ignition or Quick Effects that Starve Venom can feasibly copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardonx Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I wonder if two seperate teams worked on Starve venom and predator plants, where the Starve venom team thought the anime version was too strong and nerfed it but the people working on predator plants also thought starve venom was too strong and nerfed the archetype without checking with each other first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I wonder if two seperate teams worked on Starve venom and predator plants, where the Starve venom team thought the anime version was too strong and nerfed it but the people working on predator plants also thought starve venom was too strong and nerfed the archetype without checking with each other first. But...the Plants function the exact same way in the anime. Skid has the discard to attack all Pred-Countered monsters, and when it leaves the field, put Pred counters on stuff. We haven't even seen Moray and Fly Hell's anime effects, but it's safe to assume they're going to be the same. Pred Plants are just undersupported right now. Like...badly undersupported. But this was also Yuri's first full on-screen Duel, and I don't think it's a perfect reflection of his full Deck or strategy. Other than whee, Starve Venom! Kill everything with Starve Venom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldry_lord Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 But...the Plants function the exact same way in the anime. Skid has the discard to attack all Pred-Countered monsters, and when it leaves the field, put Pred counters on stuff. We haven't even seen Moray and Fly Hell's anime effects, but it's safe to assume they're going to be the same. Pred Plants are just undersupported right now. Like...badly undersupported. But this was also Yuri's first full on-screen Duel, and I don't think it's a perfect reflection of his full Deck or strategy. Other than whee, Starve Venom! Kill everything with Starve Venom! Yeah, we'd need to see more of the archetype to really judge it. Anyway, I noticed that you changed your avi to Starve Venom; here's a much clearer pic you can use (it's the anime version, in case you're wondering): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardonx Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 The counters didn't reduce the levels in the anime, so starve venom could still steal effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 -It originally needed any 2 DARKs Ever get the impression Ygo doesn't want everyone playing Dragon's Mirror to randomly spit out a 2800 Honest/Nuke/whatever, that requires, basically, no setup/effort/etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ever get the impression Ygo doesn't want everyone playing Dragon's Mirror to randomly spit out a 2800 Honest/Nuke/whatever, that requires, basically, no setup/effort/etc?Then make the effects contingent on the on-field summon, kinda like the Paladin Synchros, but let it be summoned without hoop-jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ever get the impression Ygo doesn't want everyone playing Dragon's Mirror to randomly spit out a 2800 Honest/Nuke/whatever? Yes. Yes I did. Although I'm still sad you can't fuse from the hand, but I guess that would be the same sort of issue as D-Mirror. Too generic. And I guess with them boosting a lot of Fusion styles, it's just too risky to give a super-easy monster like this to every Deck that can run Poly. *looks at Dark Rebellion* But they did it to every Deck that runs Level 4s. *looks at Clear Wing* Hahaha, Synchro Decks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'm just super excited that super-poly is a good side vs all 4 OCG meta decks now With venom, Phantom Abyss can be shuttered too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'm just super excited that super-poly is a good side vs all 4 OCG meta decks now With venom, Phantom Abyss can be shuttered too I almost want Super Poly unbanned in the TCG. Almost. But to be fair, I adored Super Poly before it was actually good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldry_lord Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I almost want Super Poly unbanned in the TCG. Almost. But to be fair, I adored Super Poly before it was actually good. I may be crazy for saying it, but I do actually want it back. I know they have a number of reasons for keeping it banned, but sometimes you can't help but want things you know are objectively a sketchy idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I almost want Super Poly unbanned in the TCG. Almost. But to be fair, I adored Super Poly before it was actually good.It and wavering eyes are currently some of nicest things to draw into, as they can get you back into the game pretty easily. I wouldn't call sups broken in any stretch of the imagination at 1 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Then make the effects contingent on the on-field summon, kinda like the Paladin Synchros, but let it be summoned without hoop-jumping.Although I'm still sad you can't fuse from the hand, but I guess that would be the same sort of issue as D-Mirror. Too generic. You know, between the Metalfoe Fusions and This card, it hints at Ygo trying to be more experimental with it's Fusions. However, they still seem to be skeptical about it, but this is likely because OCG still has Super Poly, and they are just trying to skate on thin ice. I mean, sure, we would all love it if Polymerization was splashable because it could make [hypothetical monster here], but it's a pipe dream at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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