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Evilswarm Exciton Knight


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2 Level 4 monsters
Once per chain, during your Main Phase or your opponent's Battle Phase, if your opponent has more total cards in their hand and their side of the field than you do: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; destroy all other cards on the field, also your opponent takes no further damage this turn (this is a Quick Effect).

 

I was looking at the Worlds banlist when I noticed this card and remembered that it has been gone from TCG for a while now, and now I would like to read your analyses, thoughts and opinions regarding it:

Does anyone miss it? Was banning it a good call for the improvement of the game? Should it come back? Could the TCG metagame handle it if it came back? For the ones who follow OCG, what's its current impact in there?

 

Personally, I liked having it around as in a way it made the card advantage of both players more even and gave decks a chance of staying on the game; I would like to have it back, but I can't tell if it would be a good move for the game and current metagame. Learning more about the latter is why I'm posting this thread, actually.

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What people are missing in this thread is that he was never ran at three.

He is one of those cards that either can fully exist or must be banned. Having him at two, three, or six million would not make a difference.

He was only ran a one, and generally was thought to be a bit too strong.

I haven't played the competitive scene in a while, but this card still sounds unhealthy for the game.

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I'm not saying that it can't come back (and it was also a hit to Nekroz), as it probably could, but...

 

This staying banned is not a matter of health. Not everything is health. Banned cards returning is a matter of projected impact, regardless of the current gamestate.

 

Like, "R4 isn't common ATM"... Doesn't change that R4 is stupidly easy to drop and has come and gone since Xyz were made. To in an this because decks can't currently abuse it is dumb, when R4 is arguably more potent than ever. At least, in terms of making it, not so much in their quality.

 

Just saying.

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I see. I did notice that decks like Blue Eyes, Monarchs, BAs and PKs and their variants, can't easily access the Rank4 pool, in addition to the presence of floater BAs and Kozmos. What I am not too sure about is how much this card would push up those decks that access Rank4s. For instance, don't Atlanteans make Rank4s and are currently strong enough to tackle the top tiers?

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I'm not saying that it can't come back (and it was also a hit to Nekroz), as it probably could, but...

This staying banned is not a matter of health. Not everything is health. Banned cards returning is a matter of projected impact, regardless of the current gamestate.

Like, "R4 isn't common ATM"... Doesn't change that R4 is stupidly easy to drop and has come and gone since Xyz were made. To in an this because decks can't currently abuse it is dumb, when R4 is arguably more potent than ever. At least, in terms of making it, not so much in their quality.

Just saying.

Isn't projected impact dependent on the current game state? R4 being uncommon being part of it
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Actually come to think of it, isn't EEK kinda misinterpreted.

 

If you're really so far behind your opponent in advantage, it's likely they have an out to a ss2 monster effect with no other strings attached. 

 

If you get exciton off, it's likely they weren't doing that much better than you. Cause you were 1) Able you get 2 lv 4's on field 2) Summon Nuke Roach 3) Use Nuke Roach

 

The momentum shifts are bounded to be kinda small

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Actually come to think of it, isn't EEK kinda misinterpreted.

 

If you're really so far behind your opponent in advantage, it's likely they have an out to a ss2 monster effect with no other strings attached. 

 

If you get exciton off, it's likely they weren't doing that much better than you. Cause you were 1) Able you get 2 lv 4's on field 2) Summon Nuke Roach 3) Use Nuke Roach

 

The momentum shifts are bounded to be kinda small

Yeah. It's not like it's a level 4 main deck monster that reads: "Discard 1 card: Nuke during either turn" (same amount of advantage lost to perform the nuke, and it could even keep the 19/0 body). You have to be either holding Rabbit or have a little bit of advantage to pull Exciton off.

 

I could see him coming back, though I'd like to see him at 1. Even though nobody runs 2+, in principle it's silly to have to deal with this thing twice. Once is enough.

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Isn't projected impact dependent on the current game state? R4 being uncommon being part of it

no. It's not.

 

For example, Brionac. Yata-Garasu. Cyber Stein.

 

One of these is unbanned, and all that did was end up being more fuel on the Metalfoe Fire. Yata is debatable, but stays banned because safer than sorry, and Brio is dumb as funk, but isn't as likely to be summoned (before now).

 

You have to factor in what they do at their realistic best, not within a single format.

This and Heavy.

yeah! What, with heavy actually being really good in pendulums, to the point of breaking some of them further, and the TCG totally didn't hit all the backrow at the same time they killed heavy!

 

This was hit to punish Nekroz, just as much as to help Pendulums.

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no. It's not.

For example, Brionac. Yata-Garasu. Cyber Stein.

One of these is unbanned, and all that did was end up being more fuel on the Metalfoe Fire. Yata is debatable, but stays banned because safer than sorry, and Brio is dumb as f***, but isn't as likely to be summoned (before now).

You have to factor in what they do at their realistic best, not within a single format.yeah! What, with heavy actually being really good in pendulums, to the point of breaking some of them further, and the TCG totally didn't hit all the backrow at the same time they killed heavy!

This was hit to punish Nekroz, just as much as to help Pendulums.

Good to see you too Black.
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no. It's not.

 

For example, Brionac. Yata-Garasu. Cyber Stein.

 

One of these is unbanned, and all that did was end up being more fuel on the Metalfoe Fire. Yata is debatable, but stays banned because safer than sorry, and Brio is dumb as funk, but isn't as likely to be summoned (before now).

 

You have to factor in what they do at their realistic best, not within a single format.

 

A lot of cards were at their peak in their respective formats. Whether or not you subscribe to powercreep, I don't think cards like Construct and Exciton do nearly as well in this format. That's why seasonal changes are necessary and we don't go by a single unchanging list. Sure certain cards stay banned forever, but a lot of the stuff on the list we've seen come back because the format dictates how if it's going to be as broken as it was in previous formats. Construct is gonna take a dump and auto-kill everything, in whatever format it's in. But if we're in a format that's untargetable, doesn't go into the ED, or everything just straight up floats, then Shaddolls might not be doing much, regardless of how good Construct is. Same goes for Exciton, though as I'm typing this out, it's possible we might just have different ideas of what the banlist should do

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A lot of cards were at their peak in their respective formats. Whether or not you subscribe to powercreep, I don't think cards like Construct and Exciton do nearly as well in this format. That's why seasonal changes are necessary and we don't go by a single unchanging list. Sure certain cards stay banned forever, but a lot of the stuff on the list we've seen come back because the format dictates how if it's going to be as broken as it was in previous formats. Construct is gonna take a dump and auto-kill everything, in whatever format it's in. But if we're in a format that's untargetable, doesn't go into the ED, or everything just straight up floats, then Shaddolls might not be doing much, regardless of how good Construct is. Same goes for Exciton, though as I'm typing this out, it's possible we might just have different ideas of what the banlist should do

I'm not saying they can't come back. I'm simply saying that neither "this format" and "Health" arguments are not valid in a case like this.

 

You don't unban a card the moment that R4 is less common. Do you want Shock Master back? He's harder to summon than this, but he's still dead for similar reasons. And, again, I'm not saying Exciton has no hope of returning, only that the "R4 isn't rampant" is a bad argument.

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Well r4nk decks are gone. There are rank 4's still being used. Shock would find itself in the latter group if unbanned

Currently.

 

We haven't had one printed recently, other than Tellars and Raidraptors, but that doesn't mean that they will never again occur.

 

Shock was a slightly hyperbolic point, used due to sharing the same rank. Lavalval Chain is a better example, but still hyperbolic.

 

And, as your latter point supports, R4 is incredibly generic, even with 3 materials, as evidenced by both Shock and Ptolo. But those decks can still very much be "R4 Decks", namely Pepe and Dracoslayer. While the latter could do things without Xyzing/with Fusion and Synchro, these decks still largely utilized the R4 pool, making them into R4 Deck that happened to have other options, thus making them far superior to other decks that could consistently R4.

 

The point is this: Saying that R4 isn't currently relevant is not a good point in banlist discussion. The list exists to mediate the game (Theoretically. Konami uses it a bit more proactively for their interests), and you don't simply unleash something the first moment that it's harder to summon or use, especially not something generic.

 

Discussing Exciton's impact, provided there's a deck that can use it, is a much better argument than discussing it based on what we currently have. This is what I hope to have people see and understand, not to say it deserves it one way or the other.

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Currently.

 

We haven't had one printed recently, other than Tellars and Raidraptors, but that doesn't mean that they will never again occur.

 

Shock was a slightly hyperbolic point, used due to sharing the same rank. Lavalval Chain is a better example, but still hyperbolic.

 

And, as your latter point supports, R4 is incredibly generic, even with 3 materials, as evidenced by both Shock and Ptolo. But those decks can still very much be "R4 Decks", namely Pepe and Dracoslayer. While the latter could do things without Xyzing/with Fusion and Synchro, these decks still largely utilized the R4 pool, making them into R4 Deck that happened to have other options, thus making them far superior to other decks that could consistently R4.

 

The point is this: Saying that R4 isn't currently relevant is not a good point in banlist discussion. The list exists to mediate the game (Theoretically. Konami uses it a bit more proactively for their interests), and you don't simply unleash something the first moment that it's harder to summon or use, especially not something generic.

 

Discussing Exciton's impact, provided there's a deck that can use it, is a much better argument than discussing it based on what we currently have. This is what I hope to have people see and understand, not to say it deserves it one way or the other.

Which relates to my earlier point. Exciton's impact on any given meta is bounded to be pretty small

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I was wondering if it's valid to bring the "it can be countered" argument to the discussion on Exciton's impact. I mean, I have noticed the relatively strong presence or accessibility to effect negation and destruction protection in the latest metagames, with Fog Blade (searchable), Kozmoll Dark Witch, Solemn Strike, Crystal Wing (Ultimaya), Gospel/Return of Dragon Lords, Azure Eyes, and so on; and that's in addition to the presence of floater BAs and Kozmos, as well as the pseudo-floater PKs. So, assuming Exciton came back, and it indeed gave decks that can go for a Rank4 a noticeable push, wouldn't the meta decks still count with enough ways to handle it?

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I don't really mind this card existing in the game so long as the decks capable of using it can't also easily mess with the hand the way Nekroz decks did it. A player needs a safe zone to have cards at, otherwise you can't make a strategy to predict where the blows are even gonna be coming from, especially when the answer to that question might be "from everywhere".

 

The card only really hurt me badly once or twice at most during its entire run, and I have to admit I stupidly overextended in those... the momentum shift is there but it isn't a super decisive one either. Or at least it wasn't back in the day on its own right.

 

Nowadays? I'd have to look up the current new meta to really see what's up.

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Between Metalfoes and ABC's? No, I'd rather not see this card return. R4 is a potent toolbox, but a 2-mat nuke whenever you want it is too easy for a LOT of decks to take full advantage of. This card suffers a lack of niche, where like Castel, any deck that can make R4 should, and practically needs, to run this. The card itself has not depreciated since its release, and with decks such as Metalfoes (that can refund some of their losses on their end from the nuke and recover their scales entirely) and ABC's (that can really shell out the R4 breezily and establish a field using monsters from the grave), this card becomes less something to "help the weaker decks" and more "a tool to make the big decks establish a winning field with small effort".

 

 

And, just so you know, part of this is to say is that, like Black has said a few times, just because a given deck isn't big in the format right now does not mean that unbanning a certain card is going to go over well. A powerful card is not defined only but what used it when it was banned; something like Exciton is so easy to use and fit into anything that its potency is reason enough for something else to grab onto it and be granted immediate benefits. There's a lot more to figuring out why a card should or should not be unbanned beyond the current relevancy of the deck(s) that made its use historically.

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Between Metalfoes and ABC's? No, I'd rather not see this card return. R4 is a potent toolbox, but a 2-mat nuke whenever you want it is too easy for a LOT of decks to take full advantage of. This card suffers a lack of niche, where like Castel, any deck that can make R4 should, and practically needs, to run this. The card itself has not depreciated since its release, and with decks such as Metalfoes (that can refund some of their losses on their end from the nuke and recover their scales entirely) and ABC's (that can really shell out the R4 breezily and establish a field using monsters from the grave), this card becomes less something to "help the weaker decks" and more "a tool to make the big decks establish a winning field with small effort".

@bold: Nnnooooo?

 

That was never, ever the case, and was more kneejerk reaction in deckbuilding, moreso by scrubs. It was an option, but by no means required in non-R4.deks.

 

It's a complete waste of an ED slot in most decks, even many R4.deks (like Geargia, which rarely ran it).

 

and the card most certainly has gotten worse, it was completely unfair when it was printed, but isn't so much the case now

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