What if Pendulums could only summon 1 monster from the Extra Deck at a time?

[Sora1499]

I've seen people Penduluming for 5 repeatedly and it is just stupidly broken. I think the fact that Pendulums basically recur infinite, and significant in size, advantage is poorly designed as well.

Also with this topic, pendulums can still drop as many monsters from the hand as possible.

[The Highlander]

I have seen people use mejesty's fiend and it is gg against many decks if they do not have their answers ... jokes aside this is laughable, you basicly state "I have seen stuppid abuse of a mechanic by cards, which are clearly designed to abuse every bit about a mechanic (e.g. pendulum sorcerer) and suddenly come to the conclusion to hit the mechanic in a weird way, rather than directly approaching the problems themselves" pendulum summon 5 from the extra deck is one of the "arguments" people used to state synchros/xyzs/pendulums are inherently broken (however still on the level of "you can summon all those high level monsters from your hand, so I get those resources out of NOWHERE").

The problem is not a scenario in which one player gathered advantage, it is with decks that use abusive cards like pendulum sorcerer, which are clearly designed to enable such scenarios right away and while even getting advantage for it.

"Strangely" enough decks like igknights, zefra etc. still fall flat, what a "coincidence".

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Wavering Eyes, Moneyboard, and Scout would be balanced

 

Duster might end up being less broken than heavy (debatable due to floodgates)

 

It would be a better ygo

[The Highlander]

Wavering Eyes, Moneyboard, and Scout would be balanced

 

Duster might end up being less broken than heavy (debatable due to floodgates)

 

It would be a better ygo

Fair enough, instead of hitting problem cards you can hit every card around them, so they themselves could not be played any longer, sounds like a healthy way to solve the problem.

You keep mentioning problem cards, however scout is in absolutely no way balanced.

And by the way monkey is not even a problem, it is sorcerer, which gains advantage by creating even more advantage.

Your argument is basicly "we can keep pot of greed in the game if we hit spells in general".

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Fair enough, instead of hitting problem cards you can hit every card around them, so they themselves could not be played any longer, sounds like a healthy way to solve the problem.

You keep mentioning problem cards, however scout is in absolutely no way balanced.

And by the way monkey is not even a problem, it is sorcerer, which gains advantage by creating even more advantage.

Your argument is basicly "we can keep pot of greed in the game if we hit spells in general".

Scout is deck restricted to Qli. Monkey summons everyone and their mothers. Pwiz need targets to kill and needs to be ss'd. Monkey needs to just be played

[The Highlander]

Scout is deck restricted to Qli. Monkey summons everyone and their mothers. Pwiz need targets to kill and needs to be ss'd. Monkey needs to just be played

Scout is a (+1) each turn until taken down, monkey is a (+1) as well, however only once, pwiz is basicly a (+2) each time you summon it.

[Sora1499]

I have seen people use mejesty's fiend and it is gg against many decks if they do not have their answers ... jokes aside this is laughable, you basicly state "I have seen stuppid abuse of a mechanic by cards, which are clearly designed to abuse every bit about a mechanic (e.g. pendulum sorcerer) and suddenly come to the conclusion to hit the mechanic in a weird way, rather than directly approaching the problems themselves" pendulum summon 5 from the extra deck is one of the "arguments" people used to state synchros/xyzs/pendulums are inherently broken (however still on the level of "you can summon all those high level monsters from your hand, so I get those resources out of NOWHERE").

The problem is not a scenario in which one player gathered advantage, it is with decks that use abusive cards like pendulum sorcerer, which are clearly designed to enable such scenarios right away and while even getting advantage for it.

"Strangely" enough decks like igknights, zefra etc. still fall flat, what a "coincidence".

Please don't talk down to me.

 

Igknight and Zefra might just be sheet decks. I definitely agree Sorcerer is broken and specifically designed to abuse Pendulums, but I mean come on man, Pendulum Summoning allows you to recur immense amounts of advantage every single turn for no cost whatsoever apart from the initial inconvenience of setting up your scales, and frankly it's not that hard to get multiple Pendulums in the ED without using stuff like Sorc, Odd-Eyes, Luster Pendulum, etc. How is that healthy? Pendulum Summoning is inherently a broken mechanic.

I think I'm a little more than a traditionalist (I think Xyz and synchros are really cool) and I'm excited about Pendulums. I think they allow for a greater diversity of strategies and they allow high level main deck monsters to finally be used without much trouble. But recurring all your advantage, for no cost, every single turn, is outlandish. As soon as the advantage is gone, it comes right back, invalidating whatever your opponent did to get rid of it. Scraping by, once piece at a time, seems a little more fair to me (even though the idea is continuous +1s doesn't quite sit well with me either but I don't think it's the end of the world). There would also be fewer OTKs, although that point isn't all that strong.

[The Highlander]

Sorry, I guess I got a bit carried away, having to say the same over and over, however the floating of pendulums is hardly as severe as it might seem at first sight and setting upt the scales is a (-2) on its own, unless your scales have effects (e.g. scout, a first try of konami to deal with this problem) and considering the current game speed it hardly leaves much time to gather resources, though I will agree on it being a somewhat cool idea to slow the regeneration process down (even if it kills certain arcchtypes).

However gathering many resources in the extra deck still takes time and effort (majespecter, performapals, qli, metalfoes and the likes of them aside as they are designed so that would not apply to them).

[Sora1499]

Sorry, I guess I got a bit carried away, having to say the same over and over, however the floating of pendulums is hardly as severe as it might seem at first sight and setting upt the scales is a (-2) on its own, unless your scales have effects (e.g. scout, a first try of konami to deal with this problem) and considering the current game speed it hardly leaves much time to gather resources, though I will agree on it being a somewhat cool idea to slow the regeneration process down (even if it kills certain arcchtypes).

However gathering many resources in the extra deck still takes time and effort (majespecter, performapals, qli, metalfoes and the likes of them aside as they are designed so that would not apply to them).

No worries.

 

In a slower game state it's true that giving up 2 of your cards straightaway can screw you over for the rest of the game, but, conversely, the benefits of having 2 scales set up will be ever greater in the mid-late portion of a slower game, since you'll have more time for your recurring advantage to slowly snowball itself and get stronger and stronger. OPT +1s would matter, and I think be worth it, in a slower game state.

Of course, we're not in a slow game state right now, we're in a wicked fast one (and I don't think Pendulums are to blame for the most part) where OPT +1s for lots of investment just don't make the cut. Which is sad. But oh well.

[Snatch Steal]

Konami made it very clear that Normal Pendulum Monsters are significantly weaker than Performages/Pals. Wavering eyes is banned, Pendulum Call got hit, and a bunch of Pendulum Monsters got nailed hard, so right now there are no good pendulum decks except Metalfoes.

 

Like, are Ritual Monsters OP because of Nekroz? Not particularly.

 

The reason Pendulums kind of nerf themselves is because they need to amass an Extra Deck before they do anything. If they could only summon one thing from the extra deck, it renders their entire existence pointless, because you'd dry up instantly and never recover.

 

Imagine igknights pendulum summoning for 2. It's just not graceful.

[Sleepy]

Since day 1 in which they were announced, there's been people trying to tweak the mechanic, and this suggestion is the first thing everybody thinks up. It would have been a legit idea back when the concept of Pendulum Summoning got introduced, but such ideas need to get adjusted over time as the game itself changes.

 

The main issue with the idea (as already mentioned) is how it ruins your ability to take out all your savings out of the bank (sort of speak), and nobody likes not being able to make use of their own hard-earned efforts. Besides, you can see the real impact of the concept's core by using vanilla Pendulums, especially ones that abuse this kind of practice such as Igknights. They aren't really an issue thanks to the rest of the game nowadays being able to even out against that.

 

I don't like the swarm personally as a concept I'd put into the game as is though. Try to put even vanilla Pendulums in decks from 2011 and any point earlier into the game, and the impact would definitely be there, especially the earlier in time you get, the bigger the scales you allow to exist, and the more you encourage/enable the existence of builds exclusively made out of Pendulums. Though we are talking about nowadays...

 

The actual things that have made Pendulums be on the meta's radar are actually the support effects of any kind give them. The same thing that Xyzs and Synchros received to get powerful. Building up naturally in the Extra Deck is a gradual process unless your deck's effects are designed to abuse things as much as possible, like how you could set PePe scales and go +1 with something like Monkeyboard > Lizardraw before even opening the portal of hell. Plus the blow-up of Sorcerer or Wavering Eyes, which gave you instant ammo and instant Scales at the same time, and even search out Special Summons at times (Plush and Ariadne). You can see it is the fact they over-did it with the support. If you can end your turn 1 with 2 Scales in place, an Infinity, a Harbinger, a Crystal Wing, 5 Pendulums waiting to come out of the Extra Deck, a Solemn Strike face-down, and a hand of 6 to boot, you know the mechanic is not responsible for that.

 

 

 

I'm gonna point out at my thread at the bottom of the page of this section, which goes a different angle when it comes to the Pendulum mechanic being nerfed: (Not that its core needs to be inherently balanced out right now, but that the concept admittedly feels like bullshit so I'm trying to keep its good points while just eliminating the most extreme cases, and hopefully make is so that some of its members on a limited/banned/questionable position could see themselves a little more balanced out.... )
http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/352450-itt-messing-with-how-zones-work/

 

 

Scout is a (+1) each turn until taken down, monkey is a (+1) as well, however only once, pwiz is basicly a (+2) each time you summon it.

 

 

I need to point out that this difference is more crucial the slower the games become. I haven't seen as many "loop back to hand" shenanigans with Scout for double uses in a single turn, and in such a fast format as the one we've been at, you'd expect to pay 2 or 3 times with Scout per game. Not to mention Qliphs have fewer members and versatility than P-Pals do, pretty much slightly more restricted than Monarchs in terms of what falls down to the field per turn (P-Summon and Tribute Summon), plus how Qliphs can only P-Summon other Qliphs (which is the most used argument I've seen here). Even more so they can't use other Extra Deck Summons without getting rid of their own Scales. Oh, and the Qliph scales tend to be something like 4 or 5 in the low end and 9 on the high end. Monkeyboard is up to a generic 1 and 7, going through more common sizes and more options to combine it with overall.
I've also seen how sometimes Qliphs get LP screwed because factoring in damage intake, they can quickly render their Scout search unusable or too risky, or prevent them from using the Solemn Traps and other LP cost effects.

I can see how similar in concept they are, but I can see why their list placement is as different as it is..... I'm out of the loop enough to not know how Qliphs actually play out in a duel nowadays first hand, so this is mostly just theory-oh from me....

[zjyugioh]

With the change of mechanics in which Extra Deck monsters could only be summoned to the Extra Monster Zone and Linked Zones, I say it would be interesting to see how Pendulums can be played. I don't think there is a rule about where will they be summoned if they were placed in the Extra Deck, but I do think it does seem similar to this thread's rule if applied. With the nerf of Pendulum Zones and the Extra Deck I think they should still allow as many Pendulums from the Extra Deck to be summoned. I am pretty sure most EMZs will have Link Monsters anyway that making Pendulums unusable to be comboed with them anyway.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Next time, don't necrobump something from almost 6 months ago; make your own thread to talk about it.