GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I don't know if everyone has it, but in my Card Maker there is an "undefined" card at the end of the card list that loads nothing. This made me decide to make a very meta, "glitchy" card. It does have a name, "undefined" but I choose to make it Super Rare so you can barely see the name, giving it more of a glitchy feel.Effect:2 Level 0 MonstersThis card cannot be destroyed by battle. This card cannot be targeted by, or destroyed by Card Effects. If a Coin Flip or Dice Roll effect were to happen, detach 1 XYZ Material from this card; skip the Flip or Roll and choose what the result would be instead. Anytime a card becomes Level 0, attach it to this card as XYZ Material. This card gains 1000 ATK and DEF for every XYZ Material attached to it. The main question you're probably asking is "What is a Level 0 Monster? Those don't exist!"Well, the whole idea behind this card is it's supposed to be an Error in the System of Duel Monsters, a Glitch in the Matrix.So it's only fitting that the only way to cause this Glitch to appear is through a couple of "Loop-holes" in the "code" of the game. A Level 0 Monster shouldn't be possible, but it is. By using cards like "Level Tuning" that decrease a Monster's Level, you can get a Level 0 temporarily if you hit the sweet spot of decreasing it just enough. Alternatively, you can use cards like "Copy Plant" that target other Monster's Levels and Copy them, then target an XYZ, which has no Level, turning it into a Level 0. It's gimmicky, it's weird, and in any given situation it's useless, except with this card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Moved to Experimental Cards since Undefined is NOT a real Type. (Hopefully you're aware about the workaround to posting cards from the card maker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Moved to Experimental Cards since Undefined is NOT a real Type. (Hopefully you're aware about the workaround to posting cards from the card maker)No, I'm not. What is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokutah Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 he meant this: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/326539-ycm-casual-cards-designs-rules-updated-9132016/ as for the card. is way impractical on so many levels, even if its intentional to do so. by game standard there no such thing as Level 0 monster. any level modifier will stuck as low 1, the closest to "official Level 0" is just cosmetic estetic on cards like Ultimaya. so basically this card is impossible to summon stat is missing. just give it 0 stat, there's no difference here these effect is not Meta, its a mix-match Overpowered (arguably one can say it is beyond meta. which in not a healthy way) and down right useless. the nail in the coffin on this card that it s effect is based on chances. as much my love and believe that chances based effect can be good. this card chances variable is far to wide to be near useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 he meant this: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/326539-ycm-casual-cards-designs-rules-updated-9132016/ as for the card. is way impractical on so many levels, even if its intentional to do so. by game standard there no such thing as Level 0 monster. any level modifier will stuck as low 1, the closest to "official Level 0" is just cosmetic estetic on cards like Ultimaya. so basically this card is impossible to summon stat is missing. just give it 0 stat, there's no difference here these effect is not Meta, its a mix-match Overpowered (arguably one can say it is beyond meta. which in not a healthy way) and down right useless. the nail in the coffin on this card that it s effect is based on chances. as much my love and believe that chances based effect can be good. this card chances variable is far to wide to be near usefulI meant I'm not "aware about the workaround to posting cards from the card maker" Being that cards like Ultimaya have Level 0, even though the effect says they're Level 12, proves Level 0 is possible. You could use cards that Negate a monster's effect on it, negating the Level 12 effect and making it Level 0. Furthermore, since XYZ's have only Ranks, they are also technically all Level 0, and any spell/trap summoned effect of "Magical Hats" is also considered to be a Level 0 Monster.Also, the closest I could find to a rule state that Level 1 is the lowest Level allowed is on the wikia, stating "In the OCG/TCG, monsters' original Levels can range from 1 to 12" but considering on the very same page it gives Numerous examples of situations where cards can/are Level 0, I am willing to bet this was added a while ago and was only to let readers know that Stars on any card would always be between 1-12, and even that isn't the case anymore. The card is supposed to be nearly impossible to summon, because it's supposed to be a sort of "Error" card that can only exist through a series of loop-holes and/or contradictions in the game's rules. I left the stat out on purpose to give it more of an "Error" feel. If "there's no difference here" then why add it? The most "Overpowered" part of this card would be "Add all banished cards to the hand" in my opinion, but that will only last for about 1 turn and will only matter if you're built based around banishing.You seem to just be stating the entire point of the card as if it's a bad thing... You say it's based on chances, with potentially OP or useless effects as if that isn't exactly what I put on there. Did you think I made a card that uses both coin toss and die rolls without realizing it's based on chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Being that cards like Ultimaya have Level 0, even though the effect says they're Level 12, proves Level 0 is possible. You could use cards that Negate a monster's effect on it, negating the Level 12 effect and making it Level 0. Furthermore, since XYZ's have only Ranks, they are also technically all Level 0, and any spell/trap summoned effect of "Magical Hats" is also considered to be a Level 0 Monster.[spoiler=Ultimaya Rulings] The "effect" of Ultimaya that makes it Level 12 is in brackets has "always" in it, meaning it applies no matter what you do. Even off the field, it still applies, because it is not an effect. It is a mechanic. The only reason they did that on the card was because they wanted to avoid having it normally Synchro Summonable, which doesn't even work properly. They wanted to make it cool? idk An Xyz does not have a Level of 0. It has no Level. It's like saying a Spell card has 0 ATK. While it does has no ATK, its because it has no ATK value at all. As for Magical Hats:They are like tokens. So yeah, no current way to Summon it. I get the idea, but as of now, it doesn't work. Also, the closest I could find to a rule state that Level 1 is the lowest Level allowed is on the wikia, stating "In the OCG/TCG, monsters' original Levels can range from 1 to 12" but considering on the very same page it gives Numerous examples of situations where cards can/are Level 0, I am willing to bet this was added a while ago and was only to let readers know that Stars on any card would always be between 1-12, and even that isn't the case anymore. The card is supposed to be nearly impossible to summon, because it's supposed to be a sort of "Error" card that can only exist through a series of loop-holes and/or contradictions in the game's rules. On that same wikia page, it mentions how Xyz Monsters, Magical Hat Summoned monsters, and the like, don't have Levels. May I ask why it has no ATK and DEF values? I mean, I get that fits in with the flavour, but how on earth is it supposed to conduct damage calculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 [spoiler=Ultimaya Rulings] The "effect" of Ultimaya that makes it Level 12 is in brackets has "always" in it, meaning it applies no matter what you do. Even off the field, it still applies, because it is not an effect. It is a mechanic. The only reason they did that on the card was because they wanted to avoid having it normally Synchro Summonable, which doesn't even work properly. They wanted to make it cool? idk An Xyz does not have a Level of 0. It has no Level. It's like saying a Spell card has 0 ATK. While it does has no ATK, its because it has no ATK value at all. As for Magical Hats:They are like tokens. So yeah, no current way to Summon it. I get the idea, but as of now, it doesn't work. On that same wikia page, it mentions how Xyz Monsters, Magical Hat Summoned monsters, and the like, don't have Levels. May I ask why it has no ATK and DEF values? I mean, I get that fits in with the flavour, but how on earth is it supposed to conduct damage calculation?I would assume not having a Level is the same as having a Level 0, since there are cards with effects that change depending on the targeted Monster's Level, and in these instances it is treated as 0. A card with No Level, in all situations when it matters, is treated as if it has a Level of 0. This is also one of those situations. It would conduct damage calculation the same as a 0 ATK/DEF card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I would assume not having a Level is the same as having a Level 0, since there are cards with effects that change depending on the targeted Monster's Level, and in these instances it is treated as 0. A card with No Level, in all situations when it matters, is treated as if it has a Level of 0. This is also one of those situations. So, if I say Special Summon a card with 0 ATK from your Graveyard, I could Summon a Spell or Trap too? Also, cards like Level Limit Area A do not work on Xyz Monsters, specifically. They should if your logic is correct, as a Level of 0 is less than a Level of 3. I'm happy to call up another authority on this. But anyway, I'll give a review of this card later. The concept interests me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 So, if I say Special Summon a card with 0 ATK from your Graveyard, I could Summon a Spell or Trap too? Also, cards like Level Limit Area A do not work on Xyz Monsters, specifically. They should if your logic is correct, as a Level of 0 is less than a Level of 3. I'm happy to call up another authority on this. But anyway, I'll give a review of this card later. The concept interests me.Yes, they don't work on XYZ monsters because those monsters are Level 0, which is not above the Level 4 requirement. Let me give you a few examples.If I use "Star Light, Star Bright" http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Light,_Star_Bright by targeting an XYZ, what happens to any monsters with equal ATK of DEF? The only logical answers is, their Level becomes 0, because the targeted monster has no Level.Weights & Zenmaisures, Constellar Siat, and Copy Plant all have the same possibility of targeting an XYZ, a monster with no Level, to change another monsters Level into that. The problem with your example is, an effect would never just say "a card with 0 ATK" it would say "a MONSTER with 0 ATK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Yes, they don't work on XYZ monsters because those monsters are Level 0, which is not above the Level 4 requirement. Let me give you a few examples.If I use "Star Light, Star Bright" http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Light,_Star_Bright by targeting an XYZ, what happens to any monsters with equal ATK of DEF? The only logical answers is, their Level becomes 0, because the targeted monster has no Level.Weights & Zenmaisures, Constellar Siat, and Copy Plant all have the same possibility of targeting an XYZ, a monster with no Level, to change another monsters Level into that. The problem with your example is, an effect would never just say "a card with 0 ATK" it would say "a MONSTER with 0 ATK" Level Limit Area A not Level Limit Area B. That specifically says "Level 3 or lower" As for Star Light Star Bright, you cannot target an Xyz Monster. With any card that has something to do with Levels, you cannot target it, as it has no value to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I just realized you're talking about Level Limit Area A rather than Level Limit Area B I guess you're right on XYZ not counting as Level 0, but you can see how through certain contradictions you can turn other cards into Level 0's, right?And that's the whole point of this card. It's something that isn't supposed to be possible, like Missing No."As for Star Light Star Bright, you cannot target an Xyz Monster. With any card that has something to do with Levels, you cannot target it, as it has no value to work with."Where does this come from? The card simply say to target A MONSTER. It doesn't say the targeted Monster is required to have a Level. Like I said, this is a contradiction/loophole making Level 0 possible, although it's fairly useless since the only card that functions with Level 0's is my fake card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 "As for Star Light Star Bright, you cannot target an Xyz Monster. With any card that has something to do with Levels, you cannot target it, as it has no value to work with." Where does this come from? The card simply say to target A MONSTER. It doesn't say the targeted Monster is required to have a Level. Like I said, this is a contradiction/loophole making Level 0 possible, although it's fairly useless since the only card that functions with Level 0's is my fake card. Well, I mean, how it can it become the same Level as something that doesn't have Level? If you ask any of the admins on the site, they will give you the same answer. It's not possible. Let us imagine Star Changer targeting an Xyz Monster. You try to increase the Level by 1, and yet it doesn't have a Level. It's like sticking a floppy disk in a disk drive; it doesn't do anything (actually that's a terrible analogy, let me try again. This is more programming, but it's like trying to multiply using sentences. You just can't. They don't fit.) Try even in YGOPro or DevPro; it won't let you. What other contradictions do you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Well, I mean, how it can it become the same Level as something that doesn't have Level? If you ask any of the admins on the site, they will give you the same answer. It's not possible. Let us imagine Star Changer targeting an Xyz Monster. You try to increase the Level by 1, and yet it doesn't have a Level. It's like sticking a floppy disk in a disk drive; it doesn't do anything (actually that's a terrible analogy, let me try again. This is more programming, but it's like trying to multiply using sentences. You just can't. They don't fit.) Try even in YGOPro or DevPro; it won't let you. What other contradictions do you see? "Well, I mean, how it can it become the same Level as something that doesn't have Level?"Exactly my point. And that's the idea behind this card. It's an Error in the code, it's division by Zero, it isn't supposed to be possible.Another way to get Level 0's would be by using a card like Level Tuning on a Level 1 Monster, 1-1 = 0. Also, I came up with a WAY better effect for this card, but it won't let me upload the new image. I did the exact same thing I've always done, saved from Card Maker, upload to Imgur, copy address, but not it won't work for some reasonNevermind, finally got it to upload the new imageOkay, nevermind, it broke again.This is so weird. Now even when I upload it to different sites, it just becomes an error message, I really did break the code lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 "Well, I mean, how it can it become the same Level as something that doesn't have Level?"Exactly my point. And that's the idea behind this card. It's an Error in the code, it's division by Zero, it isn't supposed to be possible.Another way to get Level 0's would be by using a card like Level Tuning on a Level 1 Monster, 1-1 = 0. It isn't supposed to be possible, true. But the problem is, because of this, the rulings then force it to not be possible. As for that other contradiction, that Level wikia page you were talking about specifically said a monster cannot have a lower level than 1. Also, your image has gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaaraoftheSand Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 It isn't supposed to be possible, true. But the problem is, because of this, the rulings then force it to not be possible. As for that other contradiction, that Level wikia page you were talking about specifically said a monster cannot have a lower level than 1. Also, your image has gone.The rulings don't force it not the be possible, people who play the game made up un-spoken rules about it, that eventually were written down on a fan-site by other people who play the game. Nowhere in OFFICIAL rulings have I seen it said that Level 0 isn't possible. Are you talking about the Level Tuning page or the Levels page? Because Level Tuning doesn't say that, and like I said early about the Level Page "Also, the closest I could find to a rule state that Level 1 is the lowest Level allowed is on the wikia, stating "In the OCG/TCG, monsters' original Levels can range from 1 to 12" but considering on the very same page it gives Numerous examples of situations where cards can/are Level 0, I am willing to bet this was added a while ago and was only to let readers know that Stars on any card would always be between 1-12, and even that isn't the case anymore."Even if we assume their listed rule of "In the OCG/TCG, monsters' original Levels can range from 1 to 12" is 100% true and comes straight from the creators of YuGiOh, it still doesn't change anything because1. It says monster's ORIGINAL LEVEL, meaning before it's changed by a card's effect2. It says "In the OCG/TCG" however, this isn't the OCG or TCG, this is a site where we make our own rules, and the Card Maker even allows for you to create Level 0 cardsFinally got the image up correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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