Public Cards, Moderation

[seattleite]

I've gotten some complaints that there are problems with rude/trollish players, and also with public cards. I want the next Duel Portal version to be better at addressing these problems.

 

So, regarding moderation and public cards, I'd like to brainstorm with you about a new system.

Here's my ideas so far:

 

* Abolish the public card system

* Replace it with a set of TCG/OCG/Anime cards.

* Allow only some people to edit the above set. Only "staples" or other common cards will be in this set.

 

* If someone is spamming, flaming, etc., an appointed moderator can put comments next to their name in the lobby, so other players can be warned. I'll also try to fix the email server so they can't easily make duplicate accounts to dodge.

 

 

These are just my ideas, I'd like to hear your criticisms and/or your own ideas. No system is perfect, so let's find the least-bad solution :)

 

 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'm going to assume these changes will be effective on the new Unity server (or whatever you end up remaking DP on).

 

Anyway, general two cents on your proposals

 

1. Slightly iffy on removing public cards entirely, especially with communal formats that will require certain cards to be available to more than one user. If the sets are all private, it'll be difficult for them to function. I'm fine with the TCG/OCG pool though, since we know those will be cards people will want.

 

With regards to selected users, we'll need to see who's trustworthy enough to add them and not modify them unless necessary (either to make a Konami errata).

 

2. At least this will address the problem with trollish users and the like that others have been getting headaches from. The list Kupoin provided is a good start to figuring out who are the problem users (and we can flag them right away).

 

We should probably be able to ban/suspend problematic players as well, at least in terms of whoever is chosen to be DP moderator. I don't know how the notes will work, outside of a reminder or possibly restricting their privileges.

 

----

As mentioned with the last user, there should be someone who can keep tabs on the images that members use, and make sure they stay within PG-16/17 (in line with what Custom Cards is being held to in standards). With the image of permissible sexuality and content, it will be on a case-by-case basis, yes.

 

I'd like to suggest having a review of the artwork used for cards before they can be added to the card in order to cut down on the inappropriate images, but that would require whoever's responsible to check regularly. That, and if this is limited to that particular member and everyone else has common sense in appropriate images, I don't think it'll be worth it to curb a problematic few.

----

 

Whomever you pick for this job, make sure that they are impartial, level-headed and respectful towards other users; activity is a plus, but it should be obvious that most of us have lives outside this site.

[Kupoin]

I pitch the idea for a voting system.  There should be three or five moderators so there's never a draw - this'll also make sure that at least 1 person is online at any given time.  Moderators should be chosen based on activity, knowledge of card rulings, and general level-headedness when dealing with problematic people who may or may not be unreasonable.  A system implemented this way could be a good thing.  Limiting custom cards to Traditional until they're greenlit by the moderators I feel would cut down on super-OP cards while still allowing players to playtest in their own section while the Tournament section would be for straight-up dueling.

 

Putting OCG/TCG cards in their own set could also be a good idea, though I do feel people should be allowed to freely edit them as erratas come out and also add new cards as new sets are released.  Being able to see who edited them last would make figuring out who trolls easier - we only figured out Yuto was the one who edited the Phantom Knights because the guy came right out and said it as a point of pride, otherwise it would've been a mystery.

 

As for trolling in Main Chat, I'd like to see some kind of warning system.  Being able to flag people like you mentioned would be nice, that way folks can figure out who's a problem player and who isn't, though I would also like to see an option for people to simply BLOCK people they have an issue with - or, at the very least, give Moderators the power to take away folks' speaking privileges if they become a problem.  Maybe if someone gets flagged by two moderators, they get silenced for a few hours, or the whole day?  Kicking someone out could also disallow them from coming back for a short period, while something like a ban would have to be voted on by the moderation.

 

The word of the day for me is 'vote' - that way no single person who may or may not have conflicting interests can overpower anyone else.  There has to be a majority agreement before permanent action can be taken, and all temporary measures will be in place to deter people from being generally pigheaded.

[VCR_CAT]

I'm in favor of a moderator system, although this goes in-line with what our Duel Portal formats have worked before.

 

Our most recent iteration(s) involved a team of judges to review cards, with some testing being highly recommended. Of course, testing is VERY important for learning if a card is broken or not, and I think a good in-between is having cards in a pending-review pool where public submission is possible. From here, cards can be uploaded and tested in games where pre-review cards are enabled, with specific moderator/judging action needed to really get them out of that purgatory and usable in general games.

 

What this does is, it keeps the public-submission pool for people to upload their cards and tests them, but gives an option for players who want to play with fully complete cards without the risk of playing against something that hasn't been approved to some degree. It has the benefits of a controlled pool with the open nature of a free testing environment.

 

More or less, this is probably how it would've looked for any future Duel Portal competitive formats; we would've gotten a separate CCG section to better control the pool with a similar idea.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

For moderators, I think five-eight should be about right.

 

I would elect:

Myself

VCR

Self destruct button

Voltex if interested

Some other people

 

There has been talk among myself, SDB, and VCR regarding revitalizing the tourney format, that could go hand in hand with this. I will PM you with more information regarding that soon.

[Kupoin]

Another possible suggestion:

 

I've come to realize that what we as card creators are allowed to make generally cannot contend with the modern meta.  If I were to make something with as much recycle and non-destruction-removal-centric as, say, Nekroz (which I believe are no longer currently the metagame) I would be asked to give my archetype a nerf.  Can we change the standard by which we measure our created cards so that we can contend with Konami-created cards in a reasonable fashion?  My 'best' archetype cannot survive past turn 2-3 against a Konami-created archetype because it is balanced according to the standards of other card creators on the website.

 

EDIT:  Or, if this is too much to ask, we could at the very least separate those who duel with custom cards from those who wish to duel using exclusively Konami-created cards.  Two separate dueling tourneys, to ensure that what we hold as a standard for balanced card creation does not have Konami's incessant power-creep and (in my opinion) lack of taste thrown in its face constantly.  I have pointed out many times the double-standard we seem to have; Konami-created cards are okay regardless of power, but if a created archetype performs on the level of the modern metagame, we are asked to nerf it.

[Just Crouton]

"* Abolish the public card system"

 

A tad confused. Are you suggesting ditching members editing other people's custom cards, ditching custom cards being available to everyone, or ditching customs altogether?

 

I'm probably overthinking this or just read it entirely wrong.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

I'm probably not using DP again (not because of this issue. The reason is personally I just don't like that kind of system compared to a fully automated one like YGO pro or an actual deck of cards with the opponent sitting across from you at the table, even with players behaving perfectly) but I'll offer an idea anyway:

 

Blizzard entertaiment has a punishment in their games where a player can be silenced if they spam chat. The silence starts at some small duration but doubles for each infraction. Replace 'silence' with 'ban' or 'IP block' and you have a simple system that might work here.

 

What I think is useful about this is that instead of needing permission levels to edit cards and so on that may be a headache to code, all you need is one new feature. I've never written a program like DP so I could be wrong on how much simpler my solution is though.

 

Of course, there should be exceptions to this, eg the player posting porn should be permanently banned ASAP.

 

I hope this helps

 

edit: I suppose you'd also need to log which user last edited a card's image or text so you can track people who vandalize cards.

[goodfusion]

TL;DR: Make a system where by users or moderators can view what edits to public cards people have done to identify griefers easily, similar to what Wikia has in place.

 

I think that some way to track who has edited certain cards, and what edits they have done to the card, would be a useful way to find out whodunnit if a card gets griefed. Obviously this might not be helpful if somebody straight-up deletes the card, but that's why I also think we should be able to check what edits and deletions people have done to public cards so we can see if they are the culprit. A recent edits section (like the page I linked to) might also be very helpful to keep track of malicious edits.
 
In my opinion, preventing people from griefing KONAMI cards by simply restricting access to the cards to moderators isn't ideal. This is because cards are constantly getting reprinted with errata'd text and PSCT and names are updated from unofficial translations to official TCG names, and there's a lot of cards to keep track of! Obviously, not every KONAMI card has to be added, at least not urgently, but every pack there will be new cards that people will want added to the pool. If this selection of restricted cards is fairly small and restricted to commonly used, popular or 'staple' cards then I think this system would be worth a try. Otherwise I think there are simply way too many for just a handful of people to keep up with.

 

As for chat moderators, I think think that would be a great idea. Moderators would be able to ban or mute people who were spamming, flaming or posting inappropriate content in the chat, and regular users should be able to block other users so they cannot see their chat and you wouldn't be able to enter a duel with someone that has blocked you.

 

And as for people trolling by making broken cards, eh. I'll let someone else deal with that.

 

As a final note, if it is decided that KONAMI cards should be edit-restricted, I'd be happy to help with keeping those cards up to date.

[seattleite]

So it looks like we like the idea of chat moderators, but are iffy on card moderation. Mostly because it's a lot of work.  I agree that we should keep "modding" to the minimum, it looks like most people are respectful of the public cards, but there are some loose cannons.

 

Something Tyretian said gave me a crazy idea -- I've been experimenting with it over the weekend and results are looking good.

Idea: Duel Portal wikia. Always in sync with the card database.

You edit a card on Duel Portal -> It gets edited automatically on the wikia.

 

No real moderation or maintenance required. Pros:

* You get to see a history of everyone who edited a card, making it easy to track down delinquents

* It's a place to store those full-size images that you see when you hover over a card when dueling

* (Because of the above) it would be easy to spot illegal or pornographic images

* Another place to show off your cards, decks, ideas, etc

 

I like Kupoin's idea for public cards (making them Traditional when you upload, then getting to Tournament through a moderator's review). I think it's the best of both worlds. People who want a balanced, competitive game will be able to share their cards with everyone, and people who don't care can play a Traditional without nagging the moderators.

 

With chat moderators, I'm fine with giving them flagging, warning and temporary ban powers. Permanent ban could be run by me first.

 

Do the above 3 solutions solve the problems? Please let me know if not.

 

@ Sakura - Yeah this would happen when Unity happens.

 

@ Kupoin - For people who just want to play TCG/OCG stuff, maybe they could make a game with a "Note" section (like YGOPRO does), and just say "TCG/OCG only" there. Maybe that can also fix the double standard you mentioned. People could say "Tier X level only" or something.

 

@ VCR_CAT - Sounds good. Hopefully the Traditional-to-Tournament system above would help people test the cards.

@ Bill - Thanks! Probably a bit early for that but I'll keep those suggestions in mind.

@ Egyptian God Smurf (lol) - By Public cards i meant the ones that everyone can edit.

 

@ I Hate Snatch Steal - This is possible. IP Bans aren't permanent but probably annoying enough to discourage spammers.

[Sluggaholic]

Aww man. People hit all the points I was going to...

 

But then again, I agree with just about everything you've said before, sea. And what others have, too.

 

My only suggestion is of two more people who I think would be good choices for moderators, one: if they accept the role, and two: if you choose to go with them.

 

Them being "nuclearwhale" on DP and "Hintin" on DP. Both, in my opinion, are fair, great at card balance, and are more levelheaded than I, even though my activity on the site is generally more than theirs. (My lack of levelheadedness is why I can't see myself in the position, along with the occasional PSCT funk-up on my end.)

 

Though Hintin isn't as regular on the site as I'd like, nuclearwhale's on there almost all the time, and has been cited helping others with its many glitches, how to work the site, how to duel, and how to circumvent glitches previously thought to be unfixable. Truly, one of the best people to grace the site in the time I've used it. Hintin, on the other hand, is very heavy handed when it comes to card creation and fixing, but his points are fair to a "T", and hit home quickly and efficiently 9/10 times. Though, again, his lack of time on the site WOULD be an issue, his ability and understanding of card's rulings, PSCT, and workability in decks makes him a superb candidate.

 

It's only a plus that I've never really seen him pop his top at someone in-chat.

 

Kupoin is also a decent runner-up, as he seems responsible enough. Though, of course, I don't know him well enough to personally vie for him joining, so that's all up to you, seattleite.

[Kupoin]

Any news on when we'll be getting the new version?  My hubby just went absolutely bananas after getting disconnected again.  Apparently he managed to turn a hard duel around, but as soon as he summoned Chaos Giant, he was disconnected for no reason.

 

These random disconnects are really annoying and ruin amazing duels.  We've tried three separate browsers and not a single one of them is stable.  It's getting to the point where we're starting to feel dueling on Duelportal isn't worth it, anymore; good duels are few and far between, a few bad apples in terms of attitude are starting to spoil the bunch, and the constant game-breaking glitches are beyond frustrating.

[seattleite]

Any news on when we'll be getting the new version?  My hubby just went absolutely bananas after getting disconnected again.  Apparently he managed to turn a hard duel around, but as soon as he summoned Chaos Giant, he was disconnected for no reason.

 

These random disconnects are really annoying and ruin amazing duels.  We've tried three separate browsers and not a single one of them is stable.  It's getting to the point where we're starting to feel dueling on Duelportal isn't worth it, anymore; good duels are few and far between, a few bad apples in terms of attitude are starting to spoil the bunch, and the constant game-breaking glitches are beyond frustrating.

 

sorry that it's buggy. I'm working hard on the new version, but if I want to make it more stable, it will probably be at least a month out.

I won't be offended if you want to stop playing until then, but i hope you'll give it a chance with the new version.

[Kupoin]

Oh, no worries, I'm still playing.  DJ might've ragequit for now, but I see no real good reason to stop.  Still, looking forward to the new version - if I had any coding knowledge, I'd offer to help out.