Transgender

[cr47t]

He adjusts the definition of transgender to fit a shape he can win against. If one can't argue against a point without altering the phrasing of the point, they cannot say they have succeeded.

 

I second this.

[Sunshine Jesse]

There's also mountains of evidence of the difference between biological sex and gender that he ignores to fit his narrative.

 

Not to mention studies, theories, and conjecture from actual scientists who know more than him.

 

 

He's full of sheet, Winter.

[Tourmaline]

Ironically transgenderism has over infinity times the scientific basis his Orthodox Jewishness has, but we make way to accept that belief of his and others.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

0*∞=0 quite often

 

But his question remains valid. Why cant you identify as 60? And given the lack of correlation between bullying and suicide, saying trans people off themselves 10 times more often than the nat avg due to mean cis folks is silly 

He also said he wasn't going to change biology to accept someone's subjective viewpoint when that isn't what anyone is asking him to do. Transgender people just want you to treat them as you would anyone else of the gender they prefer, and to have you respect them for that in exchange for their own respect. They don't want to trick you into questioning what it means to have a penis or not to.

 

He adjusts the definition of transgender to fit a shape he can win against. If one can't argue against a point without altering the phrasing of the point, they cannot say they have succeeded.

I mean I'd prefer to be 21, but I still have to wait another 8 months

 

Facts tend to be inconvenient sometimes

 

Female: of or denoting the sex or gender that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

 

There's a difference between not being a prick, and driving head first into a mental delusion....which is what trans is. 

[Tourmaline]

A lot of trans people are actually severely messed up in the head and ignore that hormones don't actually improve one's circumstances. They're likely not really trans half the time so they're just miserable overall, and even if they really are like 10% pass. It's mostly an internal struggle, though one they were never going to win in the first place.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

A lot of trans people are actually severely messed up in the head and ignore that hormones don't actually improve one's circumstances. They're likely not really trans half the time so they're just miserable overall, and even if they really are like 10% pass. It's mostly an internal struggle, though one they were never going to win in the first place.

Yeah the point is

 

avg suicide rate is ~4% and trans Suicide rate is ~40%

 

There's unclear evidence that bullying causes an increase in suicide rate, but definitely nothing backing up a magnitude shift in the rate

 

Pinning it all on bullying and not being able to use a bathroom you wanna use is a copout. 

[Tourmaline]

Yeah, because a huge percent of the population is doing it as a fad/it wasn't their issue in the first place/they're ugly and torment themselves to death. A large percent can fall into any and people are often weakminded enough to be driven to suicide or they just break after a while. Some are undoubtedly abused and bullied to it, though not as many as just will never pass.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yeah, because a huge percent of the population is doing it as a fad/it wasn't their issue in the first place/they're ugly and torment themselves to death. A large percent can fall into any and people are often weakminded enough to be driven to suicide or they just break after a while. Some are undoubtedly abused and bullied to it, though not as many as just will never pass.

*shrugs*

 

I have depression. Never figured cutting off my dick would make it better. Millennials and their fads *smh*

 

Our generation never ceases to amaze

 

---

 

Anyway, Shapiro has pretty revolting ideas on the death penalty, trade, and religion. Not exactly a fan, but it's nice to see a feeler get put in her place

[Sunshine Jesse]

There's a difference between not being a prick, and driving head first into a mental delusion....which is what trans is. 

Except there's actual empirical data that it's not actually a delusion, as I showed in the 20 links I posted earlier.

 

The suicide rate isn't entirely due to mean cis people (although undermining the influence is actually literally wrong). It's likely closer to the correlation between ADHD and depression in nature.

[a bad post]

Yeah, because a huge percent of the population is doing it as a fad/it wasn't their issue in the first place/they're ugly and torment themselves to death. A large percent can fall into any and people are often weakminded enough to be driven to suicide or they just break after a while. Some are undoubtedly abused and bullied to it, though not as many as just will never pass.

Where are your statistics for this? Please come to the conversation with actual facts, and not spouting off esoteric bullshit.

 

*shrugs*

 

I have depression. Never figured cutting off my dick would make it better. Millennials and their fads *smh*

 

Our generation never ceases to amaze

 

---

 

Anyway, Shapiro has pretty revolting ideas on the death penalty, trade, and religion. Not exactly a fan, but it's nice to see a feeler get put in her place

Trans people have been around for thousands of years, at least. We're not just some sort of millennial fad smh please do some research. 

 

While y'all never seem to do any research

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Except there's actual empirical data that it's not actually a delusion, as I showed in the 20 links I posted earlier.

 

The suicide rate isn't entirely due to mean cis people (although undermining the influence is actually literally wrong). It's likely closer to the correlation between ADHD and depression in nature.

Well it is a mental delusion cause F-> M can still produce eggs, and M->F can still produce sperm. Atleast until the genitalia mutilation operations. There's things like Kleinfelters. But that's different and genetically based.

 

It is in the brain almost entirely

 

It's statistically insignificant

Where are your statistics for this? Please come to the conversation with actual facts, and not spouting off esoteric bullshit.

 

 

Trans people have been around for thousands of years, at least. We're not just some sort of millennial fad smh please do some research.

 

While y'all never seem to do any research

Frequency. I'm aware. My ex-religion had one of the few documented forms of M-> F

 

But it was a rare case, not a fad like it if these days.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikhandi

[Sunshine Jesse]

Well it is a mental delusion cause F-> M can still produce eggs, and M->F can still produce sperm. Atleast until the genitalia mutilation operations. There's things like Kleinfelters. But that's different and genetically based

 

It's statistically insignificant

How does that equate to a delusion in any way?

 

There's actual evidence that gender and sex are different. There's actual evidence that the two don't always link up.

 

You're ignoring this evidence.

[Tourmaline]

It's only esoteric if you have reading comprehension issues and also spend no time in the community. It's very easy to see no passing/a trash life situation in tandem would often end in suicide. Tons of people with only one kill themselves too, the latter alone even including no gender issues.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

How does that equate to a delusion in any way?

 

There's actual evidence that gender and sex are different. There's actual evidence that the two don't always link up.

 

You're ignoring this evidence.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine. Society changes. Black people where once delisted by "society" and cultures to be closely related to chimp. Didn't make it true.

 

If you want me to admit that doping infants with testosterone while having them be biologically xx will funk them up later in life. I'll give you that

 

Trans people do exist. But you elly and Hina ain't examples. Kleinfelters is an example of actual trans

 

Edit: actually KF is more intersex. Lemme find the trans one

[a bad post]

It's only esoteric if you have reading comprehension issues and also spend no time in the community. It's very easy to see no passing/a trash life situation in tandem would often end in suicide. Tons of people with only one kill themselves too, the latter alone even including no gender issues.

You can keep insulting people so that people think your smart, or you can, I don't know, bring actual facts to the table instead of engaging in hypotheticals you have no evidence of. Can that scenario lead to suicide, sure, but to claim it as the majority with no factual evidence is quite foolish.

 

Well it is a mental delusion cause F-> M can still produce eggs, and M->F can still produce sperm. Atleast until the genitalia mutilation operations. There's things like Kleinfelters. But that's different and genetically based.

 

It is in the brain almost entirely

 

It's statistically insignificant

Frequency. I'm aware. My ex-religion had one of the few documented forms of M-> F

 

But it was a rare case, not a fad like it if these days.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikhand

You are aware that cis men and women use those same "genital mutilation" operations as well right? Also, Jesse's continually provided evidence that you are ignoring because it's almost entirely in the brain? So, because you cannot visibly see the problem it is a delusion of the mind? Ok...

 

Also, a larger population of trans people does not indicate that it is a fad, merely the shifting in societal values were trans people feel more safe

[Sunshine Jesse]

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine. Society changes. Black people where once delisted by "society" and cultures to be closely related to chimp. Didn't make it true.

 

If you want me to admit that doping infants with testosterone while having them be biologically xx will f*** them up later in life. I'll give you that

 

Trans people do exist. But you elly and Hina ain't examples. Kleinfelters is an example of actual trans

 

Edit: actually KF is more intersex. Lemme find the trans one

The brains of trans people can actually be physically different from the brains of non-trans people.

 

Is ADHD a delusion, too? Because the characteristics of ADHD and being trans are parallel. Both are oftentimes physical deficiencies in the structure of the brain, cause symptoms that need treatment, and cannot be cured by therapy.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Sure? But that's not the point. They too were genetically xx or xy. Looking or feeling "feminine" isn't a fixed marker

 

They're not mutually exclusive. More people tolerate something, the more people will try something. Throw in politics and you have a MovementTM

The brains of trans people can actually be physically different from the brains of non-trans people.

 

Is ADHD a delusion, too? Because the characteristics of ADHD and being trans are parallel. Both are oftentimes physical deficiencies in the structure of the brain, cause symptoms that need treatment, and cannot be cured by therapy.

It is

As is depression. So yes, I'm mentally delusional too. I'm sure we'll agree on that conclusion. Maybe for different reasons

[Sunshine Jesse]

I admire your consistency even if you have your definitions entirely wrong.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Brain doesn't matter. You can trick the brain into a lot of silly perceptions. You were born xy same as me. True trans folk are the poor souls born x0 or such where they're physically in flux

I admire your consistency even if you have your definitions entirely wrong.

Less mental gymnastics

 

I like my life simple

[Sunshine Jesse]

The problem is that you have a different definition of delusion than Ben does and you're arguing that he's correct. "Let's not entertain the delusions that transpeople have the wrong gender" is the same thing as "Let's not entertain the delusion that depression can't just be gotten over" and "Let's not entertain the delusion that ADHD people can't just choose to pay attention."

 

All of those are factually wrong. A delusion is a belief held despite evidence to the contrary, and "common sense," or what you and he perceive as "the way things are" isn't evidence to the contrary.

 

We know the brains of these people are f***ed up. How their minds interact with the world is different. They need treatment. They need to be helped. And that help is not trying to convince them that their problems aren't real, or that their problems are their fault.

 

You're either lying, ignorant as to what he's actually saying, or backpedaling because you've been proven factually incorrect and your pride won't let you back down.

[Mr. Hyde]

[Delibirb]

You're either lying, ignorant as to what he's actually saying, or backpedaling because you've been proven factually incorrect and your pride won't let you back down.

Id like to take this moment to point to the first pitfall as detailed in my debates workshop.

 

The fact is that no one is contesting that being transgender is entirely in the brain. We're only arguing that with the mounds of evidence to suggest that this is normal enough, it deserves to be properly acknowledged and respected. You can declare your "true transgender" cases all you like, I maintain that if you need to alter the phrasing of the definition of something to argue against it, you aren't arguing against it, rather you've more or less built a straw man.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Winter literally just posted that.

 

It isn't any more right the second time.

[Mr. Hyde]

Second time's the charm!  

 

I believe Gender Dysphoria is an issue discerning mental health, and it should be up to the individual if they want to acknowledge the fact that you identify as a man or woman.  You can identify as a tomato plant, but I'm not going to call you a tomato plant, or use your "preferred pronouns".  It's ridiculous.  

 

I believe Ben Shapiro makes many a good point in that debate.  Sure he isn't empathetic, but facts don't cater to your feelings.  If you were born a man, you are a man.  If you were born a woman, you are a woman.  That is how I see it.  Gender and Biological Sex are the same thing, and no amount of putting a gender suffix/prefix at the beginning or end of a word is going to change that.  

[Sunshine Jesse]

Yeah I know that's the closed-minded conservative view but that's not the reality of the situation.