Reverie Archetype (14/14)

[.Belle]

Hi folks, this will be my first archetype posted here, all comments appreciated!

 

[spoiler=Overview]

This archetype consists of various types of LIGHT and DARK cute daydreaming girls monsters (by various, not a single one of them share common typing xD). Their main deck monsters are mostly Lv.3 monsters, with an exception of a Lv.1 Tuner with level-modifying effect, allowing them to toolbox R3 and Sync. 

 

The deck resolve around banished face-down cards to the point of using that zone as their second hand. All archetype cards share a common clause that let them banish themselves face-down instead of going to the Graveyard or banished face-up, rendering floodgates like DiFi/Macro Cosmos as well as a powerful removal like banishing less effective against them. Majority of main deck monsters can be SS'd while they're banished face-down by shuffling a number of other banished face-down cards into the Deck. Therefore, while this deck struggles during early turns (especially if 3 copies of Desires decided to troll, it struggles HARD), they can later enjoy plays after plays in a single turn once their banished pile are filled with ur typical gorgeous card sleeves.

 

While the deck sounds heavily spammy and OP, I have restricted all cards here with either control 1 or hard OPT clause to prevent unfair board presence & advantage. Although I still received some constructive criticisms about my deck from Duel Portal, so I might consider reworking some of them if comments here also suggest so.

 

btw, I've made the deck out of this archetype on DP, so I'll write some comments below each card's lore regarding their roles in the deck or just a useful tip to use the cards more effectively, make sure to check them out!

 

[spoiler=Monsters]

[spoiler=Reverie Samurai]

You can Special Summon this card that was banished face-down by shuffling 2 of your banished face-down cards into your Deck. If Summoned this way, this card gains 300 ATK, also it can attack twice during each Battle Phase. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Samurai".

 

The beatstick with the cheapest SS cost. Most of the time this will be SS'd whenever possible just to pressure your opponent or bait out some removal, but you might want to save ur banished pile for a Synchro play.

[spoiler=Reverie Archfiend]

You can Special Summon this card that was banished face-down by shuffling 3 of your banished face-down cards into your Deck. If Summoned this way: You can banish 1 other card from your hand or field, face down, and if you do, add 1 "Reverie" card from your Deck to your hand. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Archfiend".

 

The tutor. She should be your priority to SS in case u still has a limited number of banished face-down cards and has no need to pressure your opponent LP with Samurai or defend yourself with Druid and Witch, as she can grab an archetype Spells which let you setup cards for more plays. 

[spoiler=Reverie Druid]

During either player's turn, if you would take damage: You can shuffle 4 of your banished face-down cards into the Deck; Special Summon this banished face-down card, and if you do, reduce that damage to 0. Then, you can banish 1 monster your opponent controls whose DEF is equal to or less than that amount, face-down OR gain LP and inflict damage to your opponent equal to half that amount. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Druid".

 

A damage deflector that is a bit costly, but packs a powerful removal and surprise aspect.

[spoiler=Reverie Witch]

When an opponent's monster declares an attack: You can shuffle 4 of your banished face-down cards into the Deck; Special Summon this banished face-down card, and if you do, have the attacking monster attack another monster your opponent controls OR have it attack your opponent directly, instead. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Witch".

 

Almost similar roles to the above card, except that this girl can be more effective at protecting ur existing monster, although she does let opponent's monsters float in case you decide to use her removal.

[spoiler=Reverie Conductor]

When this card is Normal Summoned: You can banish 3 cards from the top of your Deck, face-down. Then, you can reveal 1 of your banished face-down monster and shuffle it into the Deck, and if you do, this card's Level becomes the Level of that shuffled monster. You can shuffle 1 of your banished face-down cards into your Deck; add this banished face-down card to your hand. You can only use each effect of "Reverie Conductor" once per turn. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead.

 

A tuner that lack SS clause her friends have, but compensated with an ability to setup banished cards on NS, topped with level modulation that grants the deck an access to R3 and high lv. Sync.

[spoiler=Extra Deck]

[spoiler=Reverie Twilight]

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

If you would Synchro Summon this card, you can also reveal face-down banished "Reverie" monsters and shuffle them into your Deck as Synchro Materials. This card can attack your opponent directly. While face-up on the field or banished, this card is also DARK-Attribute. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Twilight".

 

A small size Synchro that can be played w/o spending field resource. Can be a game finisher in case an opponent has too strong defense.

[spoiler=Reverie Cosmo]

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

This card gains 100 ATK for each of your banished face-down card, also if it attacks a Defense Position monster, inflict piercing battle damage to your opponent. While face-up on the field or banished, this card is also LIGHT-Attribute. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead.

 

Another game finisher, although this one relies on the number of banished face-down cards so she's kind of late game boss.

[spoiler=Reverie Eternity]

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner LIGHT and/or DARK monsters

While you have a banished face-down card, face-up "Reverie" monsters you control cannot be destroyed by battle or card effects. Once per turn: You can shuffle 1 of your banished face-down cards into your Deck; inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each "Reverie" monsters you control. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Eternity".

 

A defensive boss monster that protect all of your monsters, including itself. Also Im not falling short on pic and this guy definitely fit the rest of the theme. Its background might be revealed if I decide to use this archetype in some YGO RP later.

[spoiler=Reverie Nightmare]

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner LIGHT or DARK monsters

While you have a banished face-down card, face-up "Reverie" monsters you control cannot be targeted by your opponent's card effects, also when they attack, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects until the end of the damage step. When this card declares an attack: You can shuffle 2 of your banished face-down cards into the Deck, then target 1 card on the field; banish it, face-down. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Nightmare".

 

Currently the most powerful monster in the archetype. Like Eternity, this one grants all your monsters, including itself, a hexproof as well as Armades-esque lock. Furthermore, this guy can banish stuff on attack, which combo well with its own lock.

[spoiler=Spells]

[spoiler=Reverie Blast]

Excavate the top 5 cards of your Deck and banish them, face-down. Then, you can apply these effects, in sequence, depending on the number of "Reverie" cards excavated.

● 1+: Destroy 1 card on the field

● 3+: Add 1 "Reverie" monster from your Deck to your hand, then banish 1 card from your hand or Graveyard, face-down

● 5: Banish 1 card on the field, face-down.

After activated, banish this card face-down instead of sending it to the Graveyard. You can only activate 1 "Reverie Blast" per turn.

 

A spell that had potential to get rid of 2 cards from your opponent's field while netting you an archetype monster. In addition, this is the only card that let you banish card from your Graveyard, enabling you to recycle non-archetype card like Maxx C or Desires.

[spoiler=Reverie Song]

Banish 5 cards from the top of your Deck, face-down, then target 1 monster in either player's Graveyard; Special Summon it. It is treated as a "Reverie" monster while face-up on the field. If that face-up monster on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. After activated, banish this card face-down instead of sending it to the Graveyard. You can only activate 1 "Reverie Song" per turn.

 

Desires-ish Monster Reborn ripoff, period.

[spoiler=Reverie Slipper]

When this card is activated: Banish 1 other card from your hand or field, face-down, and if you do, Special Summon 1 "Reverie" monster from your hand, Deck or Graveyard, then equip this card to it. During the End Phase: Destroy this card. If this card leaves the field, banish the equipped monster, face-down. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Slipper".

 

The glass slippers that help the deck a lot in their lackluster early game play. It let you SS any of your lv.3s or even Conductor for a Synchro play as well as setting your banished pile up. Optimal targets would be Samurai or Archfiend since they require less cards to play, but Witch or Druid can be picked in case opponent's Deck is OTK/FTK and/or you already have a lot of banished face-down cards.

[spoiler=Reverie Moment]

When this card is activated: Banish 1 face-up "Reverie" monster you control, and if you do, take control of 1 monster your opponent controls while that card is still banished (even if this card leaves the field). That monster cannot be destroyed by battle or targeted by your opponent's card effects while it is face-up on the field. If this face-up card on the field would be sent to the Graveyard or banished face-up, banish it face-down instead. You can only control 1 "Reverie Moment".

 

A costly Snatch Steal that doesn't afraid of MST or TwiTwi (although the monster will lose protection if this card got hit). Despite that, this is imo the worst Spell I've made for this archetype as it is slow and doesn't add anything to your banished pile aside from a monster you already summoned, though I'll keep it that way in favor of flavor.

[spoiler=Reverie Clash]

Banish 1 card from your hand, face-down, then target 1 card on the field; reveal and shuffle into your Deck, 1 each of your banished face-down LIGHT and DARK "Reverie" monsters, and if you do, banish that target, face-down. If you control both LIGHT and DARK monsters, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects in response to this card's activation. After activated, banish this card face-down instead of sending it to the Graveyard.  You can only activate 1 "Reverie Clash" per turn.

 

The best spot removal of the deck since it's a Quick-play. You can control just a single Twilight or Cosmo to unlock its Super Poly clause.

 

[spoiler=Changelog]

2/2/17: Thread posted!

2/4/17: - Reupload all pics, now not so huge!

           - Twilight, Cosmo and Moment's lore were changed to be more clear and ruling-friendly!

           - Druid now only heal and burn by half amount of the damage she negated. Let's see if she still singlehandedly make the deck impossible to win against or not.

2/9/17: - Minor changes were made to Archfiend, Twilight and Slipper.

2/11/17: - All pics are now out of spoiler for more convenience.

             - Nightmare no longer attacks twice. It instead can banish opponent's card when it attacks.

             - Blast was revamped to be more rewarding when excavated a lot of archetype cards and punishing the lack of luck to do so. It now have multiple effects which can be applied based on number of archetype cards excavated.

[VCR_CAT]

Before I dive in, just a quick tip: with TCG Editor, at least the latest versions, you can resize the card images as they render. A 51% resize is what I work with!

 

Now, a big problem with this deck's mechanic is that a face-down banished card shares the same ruling mechanics of any other face-down card: its information is not public knowledge. What this means is that a face-down banished card can not work with cards or effects that work with specific types of banished cards, such as monsters, types or monsters, spells, traps, etc. PSY-Framelord Omega works with them because his effect only specifics "Banished Card". Anyways. The other thing with face-down banished cards is that any sorts of effects that may work while a card is banished do not work because it's facedown. I'm a little tired and I'm starting to ramble a bit, but in short: The main mechanic of these cards being able to Special Summon from a face-down position does not work because of the rulings surrounding face-down banished cards.

 

Other problems arise when the Synchro Monsters say "Face-down banished 'Reverie' monsters" because, again, the characteristics of a face-down banished card (card-type, attribute, level, name, effects, etc.) are not public knowledge, and card effects work off of public knowledge. If a card can't know what it's working with and it needs to know, then it can't work with it. Same goes to any effect that would change its attribute while face-down: It's not public knowledge so it's not even treated as being a monster in the first place.

 

This isn't to say that the archetype won't work at all period. On the contrary; it can be reworked to instead just be banished normally and the archetype will still function exactly as it did before, just with fewer ruling and mechanic headaches based on what you're trying to make the cards do.

 

If anything I've said about face-down banished cards is confusing, I can do another explanation tomorrow after some sleep.

 

 

As far as balance goes, I would reconsider the Madolche-style effect that prevents them from going to the Graveyard. General rule of them is that you want to avoid having cards or themes that love being everywhere. Or, in the case, can only go places that you want them to go. It generates situations where the opponent is only able to actually harm or do anything significant if they're able to shuffle the card back into the deck; a method of removal that is very rare to find in cards, and the one instance of it that most people run (Castel) isn't enough to really do any damage to a deck such as this. Having a place the cards don't like to be, such as the Graveyard or being banished, gives an inherent weakness and general method of removal for the opponent to work towards. The alternative being were you benefit regardless of what the opponent does to your cards becomes frustrating and often impossible to play against.

 

You're off to a great start, though! You have a well sized archetype with generally balanced cards, save for the one issue I brought up in the previous paragraph, and overall this archetype feels very close to a final product. There's a strong cohesiveness in its design. Just, as I said, it would be better to work with face-up banished cards instead of face-down because, in its current state, the game's mechanics would not allow for any of this to actually work. Looking forward to future updates!

[Azuriena]

The main mechanic of these cards being able to Special Summon from a face-down position does not work because of the rulings surrounding face-down banished cards.

 

These should be fine. Amaterasu (and Big Shield Gardna) can activate its effect while face-down. (Note that some* effects Reverie monsters use to Special Summon themselves while banished face-down don't even activate so they must become publicly visible once the effects are used.)

 

Game mechanics tend to give way to cards so that they work. For instance, a Shard of Greed that sends itself to the Graveyard to activate its effect does not have that effect resolve without effect. Even if you're not toying with this idea, where you'd probably have to create your own rulings to justify your own mechanics, just working with precedents should be fine. Like in this case.

 

Rules are contradicted by card text all the time. (Or you can have exceptions that exist just because they do, like how you can Tribute or use as Fusion Material face-down monsters you control as if they were face-up.)

[.Belle]

Before I dive in, just a quick tip: with TCG Editor, at least the latest versions, you can resize the card images as they render. A 51% resize is what I work with!

 

Now, a big problem with this deck's mechanic is that a face-down banished card shares the same ruling mechanics of any other face-down card: its information is not public knowledge. What this means is that a face-down banished card can not work with cards or effects that work with specific types of banished cards, such as monsters, types or monsters, spells, traps, etc. PSY-Framelord Omega works with them because his effect only specifics "Banished Card". Anyways. The other thing with face-down banished cards is that any sorts of effects that may work while a card is banished do not work because it's facedown. I'm a little tired and I'm starting to ramble a bit, but in short: The main mechanic of these cards being able to Special Summon from a face-down position does not work because of the rulings surrounding face-down banished cards.

 

Other problems arise when the Synchro Monsters say "Face-down banished 'Reverie' monsters" because, again, the characteristics of a face-down banished card (card-type, attribute, level, name, effects, etc.) are not public knowledge, and card effects work off of public knowledge. If a card can't know what it's working with and it needs to know, then it can't work with it. Same goes to any effect that would change its attribute while face-down: It's not public knowledge so it's not even treated as being a monster in the first place.

 

This isn't to say that the archetype won't work at all period. On the contrary; it can be reworked to instead just be banished normally and the archetype will still function exactly as it did before, just with fewer ruling and mechanic headaches based on what you're trying to make the cards do.

 

If anything I've said about face-down banished cards is confusing, I can do another explanation tomorrow after some sleep.

 

 

As far as balance goes, I would reconsider the Madolche-style effect that prevents them from going to the Graveyard. General rule of them is that you want to avoid having cards or themes that love being everywhere. Or, in the case, can only go places that you want them to go. It generates situations where the opponent is only able to actually harm or do anything significant if they're able to shuffle the card back into the deck; a method of removal that is very rare to find in cards, and the one instance of it that most people run (Castel) isn't enough to really do any damage to a deck such as this. Having a place the cards don't like to be, such as the Graveyard or being banished, gives an inherent weakness and general method of removal for the opponent to work towards. The alternative being were you benefit regardless of what the opponent does to your cards becomes frustrating and often impossible to play against.

 

You're off to a great start, though! You have a well sized archetype with generally balanced cards, save for the one issue I brought up in the previous paragraph, and overall this archetype feels very close to a final product. There's a strong cohesiveness in its design. Just, as I said, it would be better to work with face-up banished cards instead of face-down because, in its current state, the game's mechanics would not allow for any of this to actually work. Looking forward to future updates!

Thanks a lot for this detailed and informative review! (as well as rendering thing, Im stupid.) I can see why you think an overhaul to a face-up banished archetype sounds about right. However, I really want to keep their current mechanic due to flavor and fictional reasons. Also I believe my cards didnt violate rulings that bad, which is to say...

These should be fine. Amaterasu (and Big Shield Gardna) can activate its effect while face-down. (Note that the effects Reverie monsters use to Special Summon themselves while banished face-down don't even activate so they must become publicly visible once the effects are used.)

 

Game mechanics tend to give way to cards so that they work. For instance, a Shard of Greed that sends itself to the Graveyard to activate its effect does not have that effect resolve without effect. Even if you're not toying with this idea, where you'd probably have to create your own rulings to justify your own mechanics, just working with precedents should be fine. Like in this case.

 

Rules are contradicted by card text all the time. (Or you can have exceptions that exist just because they do, like how you can Tribute or use as Fusion Material face-down monsters you control as if they were face-up.)

This! Thanks for clarifying them for me! For Samurai and Archfiend, their SS are done inherently (think of Cyber Dragon or The Tricky with banished zone instead of your hand.) so their state of publicity are irrelevant. The same goes for something like Twilight, which reveal materials and simultaneously shuffle them into the Deck instead of normally tune monsters and send them to the Graveyard (for this one, think of Familiar-possessed monsters which can be SS'd by shuffling face-down corresponding Charmers into the Deck), which is not something totally new. As for Conductor, Witch or Druid who require effect activation while being face-down, just think of, as pointed out, Amaterasu and Big Shield Gardna.

 

That said, I appreciated both of your comments and Im totally not against constructive criticism like this. If you insist, I might clarify them by adding to their card texts about how they reveal themselves, sth like "When an opponent's monster declares an attack: Reveal this banished face-down card, then shuffle..." although that would make the text size small as hell...

 

However, Im not so sure about the change in regard of card balance. They pretty much lack resource recovery eff aside from their self-banishing, and if I were to change that it would be another major overhaul... though I'll always take your comment in consideration, thanks again :)

[VCR_CAT]

Okay, so aside from the spells and the maindeck monster's self summons, there are still a couple mechanics that will need fixing to accommodate a face-down banished state.

 

For starters, the synchro's ability to summon using face-down archetypical materials, at the moment with its current wording, would not work because of public knowledge (face-down banished cards are technically not part of any archetype) and that shuffling banished cards back into the deck does not reveal them. In terms of mechanics, this wouldn't fly in a real-world scenario because of the ease of chets. To accommodate, you would need to do a similar thing to the spells and have them flipped face-up. Even then, I'm not sure this would work very well in terms of wording; you'll need to bring it forth to people that are going to be much more well-versed in this sort of thing. As Terrie said, cards like Samurai do work (my mistake) with how they're worded; they simply state face-down banished cards.

 

As well, again, the mechanic of the monsters changing attribute when being face-down banished still doesn't work very well (having changed characteristics while being banished face-down is a mechanical nightmare) and would work better if simply it just changed attribute when banished.

 

Finally, regarding keeping the mechanic, there's a saying among writers of "being willing to murder your darlings". Simply put, this means that when it comes to revising or receiving criticism, nothing is off the table to be changed. Any and every aspect is just as viable as the next to be modified. That said, it doesn't mean you need to change to simply banished face-up, although I maintain the opinion that doing so wouldn't change anything with how your archetype plays and would be much simpler in terms of rulings and mechanics.

 

Which is the thing: With any mechanic you've given an archetype, if there's another way to do it that accomplishes just as much but in much simpler terms, then something needs to be changed. Either you should go to the simpler method, or you should give your archetype a reason it has to do things the way it does. Right now, this archetype doesn't use face-down banishment to any degree more than simply banishing cards normally accomplishes. As well, as great as flavor should be, it shouldn't trump gameplay when it comes to designing how an archetype works and plays out (at least when it comes to Advanced Custom Cards here).

 

 

 

So to sum this up in a neater package for what I'm suggesting:

- Review the card's effects if you're going to stick with face-down banished cards; work towards having no holes in how they work and that the wording/effects are airtight as far as modern rulings/mechanics go.

- Review the use of face-down banishment as a mechanic; give it a reason that it's used that no other mechanic can fulfill. There's territory to be tread here with this mechanic, and doing so will really open up the archetype to set itself apart from others that simply just banish.

[MUDKIPISAWESOME!!!]

Ooh, more Face-Down Banished stuff, huzzah! First off, I've got an Archetype that does that too, Stormfront, you should look it up because you might find stuff you like. Now for a couple of the cards.

To begin, the cards will be better to understand if you change "Special Summon this card that was Banished Face-Down" to "Special Summon this Face-Down Banished card"

Reverie Twilight can still be summoned using Face-Down Banished Archetype-specific materials, however you will need to add a clause stating that the cards need to be revealed BEFORE they are shuffled into the Deck to prevent cheating as they're not public knowledge and therefore you could honestly be shuffling your Pot of Desires and Allure of Darkness or some other such thing and they wouldn't be able to tell, so if you want to keep being able to use Face-Down Banished Reverie cards, you will need to state you'll have to reveal them before you Synchro - I'd write it "You may reveal and use Face-Down Banished "Reverie" Monsters as part of the Synchro Summon of this card by shuffling them into the Deck." but have the other people here check me to be certain that's the best way to word it.

Reverie Moment has a difficulty: you're Banishing a Reverie Monster Face-Up, and you control an opponent's Monster as long as the Reverie Monster remains Banished, but every Reverie Monster you have automatically flips itself Face-Down if it's Banished, meaning it's no longer public knowledge and you are therefore no longer able to determine if it's still Banished for the effect of Moment. In other words, you need to either change Moment's effect or make the Reverie Monsters have some sort of clause allowing them to be Banished Face-Up - I would just add "While this card is Face-Up in your Banished cards: You may change it to be Banished Face-Down." or some other such thing.

I've checked about this before for some of my cards, and unfortunately Face-Down Banished cards have no characteristics besides being Banished - no Type, no Attribute, no ATK/DEF, not even a Set Number or 8-Digit Password as if that mattered…maybe I'll make cards that do that someday…anyways, you can't change ANYTHING about a card while it's Banished Face-Down, so that part of Cosmo isn't possible. It would be super cool, but yeah, it doesn't work, sorry.

[.Belle]

Spent yesterday evening and the entire night farming Pegasus event on duel link, so guess I'll let the poor soul rest a bit (his or mine? idek...) and be a responsible cardmaker.

Okay, so aside from the spells and the maindeck monster's self summons, there are still a couple mechanics that will need fixing to accommodate a face-down banished state.

 

For starters, the synchro's ability to summon using face-down archetypical materials, at the moment with its current wording, would not work because of public knowledge (face-down banished cards are technically not part of any archetype) and that shuffling banished cards back into the deck does not reveal them. In terms of mechanics, this wouldn't fly in a real-world scenario because of the ease of chets. To accommodate, you would need to do a similar thing to the spells and have them flipped face-up. Even then, I'm not sure this would work very well in terms of wording; you'll need to bring it forth to people that are going to be much more well-versed in this sort of thing. As Terrie said, cards like Samurai do work (my mistake) with how they're worded; they simply state face-down banished cards.

 

As well, again, the mechanic of the monsters changing attribute when being face-down banished still doesn't work very well (having changed characteristics while being banished face-down is a mechanical nightmare) and would work better if simply it just changed attribute when banished.

 

Finally, regarding keeping the mechanic, there's a saying among writers of "being willing to murder your darlings". Simply put, this means that when it comes to revising or receiving criticism, nothing is off the table to be changed. Any and every aspect is just as viable as the next to be modified. That said, it doesn't mean you need to change to simply banished face-up, although I maintain the opinion that doing so wouldn't change anything with how your archetype plays and would be much simpler in terms of rulings and mechanics.

 

Which is the thing: With any mechanic you've given an archetype, if there's another way to do it that accomplishes just as much but in much simpler terms, then something needs to be changed. Either you should go to the simpler method, or you should give your archetype a reason it has to do things the way it does. Right now, this archetype doesn't use face-down banishment to any degree more than simply banishing cards normally accomplishes. As well, as great as flavor should be, it shouldn't trump gameplay when it comes to designing how an archetype works and plays out (at least when it comes to Advanced Custom Cards here).

 

 

 

So to sum this up in a neater package for what I'm suggesting:

- Review the card's effects if you're going to stick with face-down banished cards; work towards having no holes in how they work and that the wording/effects are airtight as far as modern rulings/mechanics go.

- Review the use of face-down banishment as a mechanic; give it a reason that it's used that no other mechanic can fulfill. There's territory to be tread here with this mechanic, and doing so will really open up the archetype to set itself apart from others that simply just banish.

Let me response to this about balance and gameplay design first. Aside from flavor, the reason I use banished face-down as a concept is to, as you said, create something that set itself apart from others aka unique (well, as of now it's not easy to be absolutely unique, but this is the closest I got). And about balance, while they currently exploiting Desires, banished face-up cards in general would be abusable by many many other things (Sarco+Necroface and many other cards can banish multiple cards at once, not to mention ability to recycle any banished cards at will.) Hope this meet ur 2nd suggestion

 

As for the 1st, I've done some research. It seems I was wrong about some concepts, so I edited Twilight and Cosmo and changed their dual attributes to simply apply when they're banished, aka whenever revealed. Also Twilight now have a clear text clarifying how it have to reveal its mats b4 shuffling. Thanks for pointing that out guys.

 

Ooh, more Face-Down Banished stuff, huzzah! First off, I've got an Archetype that does that too, Stormfront, you should look it up because you might find stuff you like. Now for a couple of the cards.

To begin, the cards will be better to understand if you change "Special Summon this card that was Banished Face-Down" to "Special Summon this Face-Down Banished card"

Reverie Twilight can still be summoned using Face-Down Banished Archetype-specific materials, however you will need to add a clause stating that the cards need to be revealed BEFORE they are shuffled into the Deck to prevent cheating as they're not public knowledge and therefore you could honestly be shuffling your Pot of Desires and Allure of Darkness or some other such thing and they wouldn't be able to tell, so if you want to keep being able to use Face-Down Banished Reverie cards, you will need to state you'll have to reveal them before you Synchro - I'd write it "You may reveal and use Face-Down Banished "Reverie" Monsters as part of the Synchro Summon of this card by shuffling them into the Deck." but have the other people here check me to be certain that's the best way to word it.

Reverie Moment has a difficulty: you're Banishing a Reverie Monster Face-Up, and you control an opponent's Monster as long as the Reverie Monster remains Banished, but every Reverie Monster you have automatically flips itself Face-Down if it's Banished, meaning it's no longer public knowledge and you are therefore no longer able to determine if it's still Banished for the effect of Moment. In other words, you need to either change Moment's effect or make the Reverie Monsters have some sort of clause allowing them to be Banished Face-Up - I would just add "While this card is Face-Up in your Banished cards: You may change it to be Banished Face-Down." or some other such thing.

I've checked about this before for some of my cards, and unfortunately Face-Down Banished cards have no characteristics besides being Banished - no Type, no Attribute, no ATK/DEF, not even a Set Number or 8-Digit Password as if that mattered…maybe I'll make cards that do that someday…anyways, you can't change ANYTHING about a card while it's Banished Face-Down, so that part of Cosmo isn't possible. It would be super cool, but yeah, it doesn't work, sorry.

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes. I'll definitely take a look at your archetype. As for wording, I dont know if this is only myself, but I find the term "face-down banished card" sounds... weird. While shorter, it doesnt sound like something that would have been used on official card texts. Therefore, I'll be keeping my wording for now, but should more ppl disagree with me I'm willing to change.

 

Also, some balance changes were made due to DP's feedback, make sure to check them out in changelog!

[.Belle]

Bump. Again, make sure to check out the changelog!

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Bump.

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Bump. More reviews would be nice _/\_

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Bump.

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Bump.

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Bump.

[StoryTeller]

Hello buddy, before sakura strike me, i would say to you some of my experience in doing banish face down decks ond duel portal.

You can use to break the banish face down clause with this easy clause:

"If this card will be banished face-down, reveal it before, and if you do (put card eff here)"

Also the problem with this is pot of desires.

I still working on an clause to work against that, but one "if this card is banished face-down from the top of deck, and isnt revealed by the eff of the card that revealed it face-down, you cant active this card effect banished face-down" for example.

Also remember: with eater of millions you can banish face down all your extra deck and abuse it.

Thats all.

Hope that can help you.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Next time, just PM him the suggestions if you know well enough that your post is past the necrobump period for other members. I'll let you off with a reminder this time, but next time it happens, there will be a warn increase.