Dad Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Why or why not? Considering Links and general format. Gogogo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I would be deeply concerned if you could actually use tokens as materials for link summons. It lets you just power through various stages of link monster for little cost because it's so easy to summon shitty little level 1 tokens. This isn't the same as synchros, where tokens are only worth a star - in this case they act as the entire tribute for a significantly more powerful monster which doesn't have a limit on how big it can be scaled up. I may be wrong, but I hope I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I would be deeply concerned if you could actually use tokens as materials for link summons. It lets you just power through various stages of link monster for little cost because it's so easy to summon shitty little level 1 tokens. This isn't the same as synchros, where tokens are only worth a star - in this case they act as the entire tribute for a significantly more powerful monster which doesn't have a limit on how big it can be scaled up. I may be wrong, but I hope I'm not. Logic dictates that tokens and Pendulums work with it. scapegoat is shite though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 The funk sort of game have I walked back into where setting a single backrow and waiting until their end phase to play it is considered too slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 The funk sort of game have I walked back into where setting a single backrow and waiting until their end phase to play it is considered too slow?Black's game It's not too slow, but it obviously won't work in every deck. Ideally you have alternate uses for Scapgoat, such as Ritual fodder, Fusion Fodder, or Synchro fodder. Scape=Radiant+Gaia, which would open up 3 ED summon spots for you. That's not broken, but it's not terrible like black likes to pan it Personal note, you can still normal summon things like Mathman, and set El Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 It's definitely too slow. you have to set it, wait for their turn to end, flip it, and you get just Gaia and spooder out of it. Winter can't math. there is no point to waiting when you can just run good cards like zoo or revival spammers in order to achieve the same thing but faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 idk how you're getting Radiant+Gaia out of 4 goats but I'm pretty sure the possible outcomes here are very strong and somewhat limiting to design space of Link Monsters, unless 1 turn really is too long to wait. edit: Ninja'd, but like, why not both? You build a board with Zoodiacs or w/e and if it stays up then whoop whoop and if not you just reload by playing a single goat, and then if you want you can use whatever else to solidify it. At any rate idk if this is good yet with the current crop of Link Monsters but it wouldn't take much to make something that broke this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 It's definitely too slow. you have to set it, wait for their turn to end, flip it, and you get just Gaia and spooder out of it. Winter can't math. there is no point to waiting when you can just run good cards like zoo or revival spammers in order to achieve the same thing but faster4 tokens? Gaia =2 or more monsters Radiant = 2 EARTH monsters 4 Scapegoat tokens, they're earth...you can make bothidk how you're getting Radiant+Gaia out of 4 goats but I'm pretty sure the possible outcomes here are very strong and somewhat limiting to design space of Link Monsters, unless 1 turn really is too long to wait. edit: Ninja'd, but like, why not both? You build a board with Zoodiacs or w/e and if it stays up then whoop whoop and if not you just reload by playing a single goat, and then if you want you can use whatever else to solidify it. At any rate idk if this is good yet with the current crop of Link Monsters but it wouldn't take much to make something that broke this.So scapegoat makes 4 goats, Radiant needs 2 earth monster, down to 2 goats, Gaia needs 2 or more monster Remaining two goats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Pretty sure the 2 or more monsters on Gaia means you can use a link 2 monster and is just to eliminate the possibility of using a single link 3 monster to summon it. It says it's a link 3 monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 This isn't good because why would you be devoting to Le random slow power card instead of devoting to good stuff? Dandelion is better than this, and it's still worse than other cards that are more versatile or immediately rewarding. Zoodiac plays will leave you with a board too full to use this, and planning for a slow start or bad situation doesn't really help anyone, when you can instead plan for outplaying and value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Pretty sure the 2 or more monsters on Gaia means you can use a link 2 monster and is just to eliminate the possibility of using a single link 3 monster to summon it. It says it's a link 3 monster.Oh I see, hmm yeah you guys are right. Different question then. If you have links pointing at a s/t zone, do anything happen then? Either Radiant or Gaia+Spooder would create two new ed zones at a +1 overall cost, which isn't awful IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Oh I see, hmm yeah you guys are right. Different question then. If you have links pointing at a s/t zone, do anything happen then? Either Radiant or Gaia+Spooder would create two new ed zones at a +1 overall cost, which isn't awful IMO Links do not do anything to S/T zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 This isn't good because why would you be devoting to Le random slow power card instead of devoting to good stuff? Dandelion is better than this, and it's still worse than other cards that are more versatile or immediately rewarding. Zoodiac plays will leave you with a board too full to use this, and planning for a slow start or bad situation doesn't really help anyone, when you can instead plan for outplaying and value.Zoodiac are gonna get a hammer to the knee. Rat going to 1 or Triangle going to 1 are fairly likely. Maybe both. Also you can triangle away tokens to summon rat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Links do not do anything to S/T zones. I mean, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them releasing S/Ts that gain effects from being pointed at by Link Monsters, but that's pure speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 In a format where you want to Summon a Link monster ASAP if you want to play Extra Deck monsters, Scapegoat feels too slow to me. It is unknown if markers pointing to S/T Zones allow you to Summon Extra Deck monsters there, but most likely won't. Otherwise even Link1s like Spider could get silly good by summoning 3 in a row, and then going Link2/Missus, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Zoodiac are gonna get a hammer to the knee. Rat going to 1 or Triangle going to 1 are fairly likely. Maybe both. Also you can triangle away tokens to summon rat....Why are you not playing Zoodiac T1 winter why are you planning for t3+ zoodiac are here here to stay for now, and I don't know why you think they have no intent of making cards that aren't slow when they already made Draconet. I mean, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them releasing S/Ts that gain effects from being pointed at by Link Monsters, but that's pure speculation. Possibly, but as of now, zilch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChampionZero Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Eh. Personally, I find it's handy when you need a line of defense. It's a little better than Shield Wing, despite being harder to recover, and it's got good potential for certain Summonings, like Ritual, Fusion, and Synchro. I like Scapeghost a little better because it also gives you a Tuner (I use one in my Synchro Deck irl, he's a huge help), and those tokens CAN be tributed, so it's significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerer Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Zoodiacs and Scapegoat aren't exclusive. Make the Zoodiac play T1 and set Scapegoat, then if/when your opponent Raigeki's your board, recover one of your EARTHs with Missus and play Scapegoat so you can make plays T2. You keep resources and have the capacity to make plays without your NS + have fodder for Triangle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Zoodiacs and Scapegoat aren't exclusive. Make the Zoodiac play T1 and set Scapegoat, then if/when your opponent Raigeki's your board, recover one of your EARTHs with Missus and play Scapegoat so you can make plays T2. You keep resources and have the capacity to make plays without your NS + have fodder for Triangle.You could also flip Goat on the opp's turn, and then use barrage on a token Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Zoodiacs and Scapegoat aren't exclusive. Make the Zoodiac play T1 and set Scapegoat, then if/when your opponent Raigeki's your board, recover one of your EARTHs with Missus and play Scapegoat so you can make plays T2. You keep resources and have the capacity to make plays without your NS + have fodder for Triangle.I already covered most of this point, so idk why you're challenging it again. Raigeki isn't an argument. You don't plan for 1-ofs that aren't even 100% played. You could argue Kaiju Slumber, but even then, eh. Scapegoat is dead unless you get outplayed. Why would you play a card that's dead for at least 2 turns and is only good when in a bad position.You could also flip Goat on the opp's turn, and then use barrage on a tokenwhy the flying funk would you hold barrage planning for a topdecked barrage is some of the worst thery-oh i've ever seen, especially considering how superfluous popping a token is =x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I already covered most of this point, so idk why you're challenging it again. Raigeki isn't an argument. You don't plan for 1-ofs that aren't even 100% played. You could argue Kaiju Slumber, but even then, eh. Scapegoat is dead unless you get outplayed. Why would you play a card that's dead for at least 2 turns and is only good when in a bad position.why the flying funk would you hold barrage planning for a topdecked barrage is some of the worst thery-oh i've ever seen, especially considering how superfluous popping a token is =xIf you have more than one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 If you have more than one?Okay, so now you're planning for having 2 of an unsearchable spell + another unsearchable spell that takes 2 turns to be live that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Okay, so now you're planning for having 2 of an unsearchable spell + another unsearchable spell that takes 2 turns to be live that makes senseI'm not "planning" anything since a barrage play off goat is meh relative to a link play. Just noting it CAN work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm not "planning" anything since a barrage play off goat is meh relative to a link play. Just noting it CAN work outOkaaay? Barrage "CAN work out" with most any play. Not really seeing the point of noting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Okaaay? Barrage "CAN work out" with most any play. Not really seeing the point of noting it.My apologies then, you can hide/remove my post if you so wish The point remains, I disagree with your assessment that setting a quick-play and waiting till your opp's turn to flip it (at a +3) is too slow It Doubles your EM potential either through the spooder-gaia route, or the radiant route. Most decks will only summon 1-2 ed monsters at one time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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