5th Dimension Dragon - Link Monster

[Sicma Crow]

Well, I wanted to take a shoot at designing Link Monster.

We don't have all the info about Link Summon so maybe I should have posted it in casual, forgive me. 

[spoiler  Link Monster - Edited ] 

New Rule Link Dragon

Links: DL, D, DR

Dragon / Link / Effect

ATK - 2500

Link - 3

Effect:

3 Monsters Special Summoned from Extra Deck except Link Monsters.

Once per turn, when this card or monster Linked to this card destroys  monster in your opponent’s Extra Monster Zone by battle: destroy each monster Linked to it. Can not be targeted or destroyed by your opponent’s card effects as long as it has monster Linked to it.

 

 

 

Gimme your feedback guys.

[Darj]

Oh wow, this is really strong for such easy material requirements. Oh, hold on, it specifically needs 3 monsters, so no shortcuts with a Link2s, alright.

Still, 2500 ATK, a majespecter protection, the 3 markers towards your side, and a Link chain nuking effect is way too rewarding for this early stage of the Link Monster era, IMO. Not saying it's broken, but just too good for this time; if you want to leave it untouched, wait for the game evolve a bit so the power level of Link Monsters increases; but if you want it to be acceptable right now... you may have to apply some nerfs here and there, like re-arranging the markers, removing the majespecter protection, not destroying the entire opponent's link chain, etc.

[Sicma Crow]

yeah, you're right.

Do you think that "3 Monsters Special Summoned from Extra Deck except Link Monsters" condition would make it more balanced, because it was my first idea, but then I thought it would be too hard.

Guess I could't find middle ground. :D 

EDIT

I really didn't want to include Link material shortcut with this one.

[Delibirb]

Where's that template from? I need that immediately.

 

Also, it does have the shortcut of using Link monsters; all Link monsters have a number of materials required, that is the number of non-Link monster materials it would need. "n" of those materials can be replaced with a Link monster with a Link-"n" monster. I do believe the Link monster does have to meet the requirements, though in this case that is irrelevant.

 

Which means this is quite powerful. Perhaps moving one or both of the diagonal arrows to the sides, so it has fewer monsters Linked to it unless it's in an MMZ?

[Darj]

Where's that template from? I need that immediately.

 

Also, it does have the shortcut of using Link monsters; all Link monsters have a number of materials required, that is the number of non-Link monster materials it would need. "n" of those materials can be replaced with a Link monster with a Link-"n" monster. I do believe the Link monster does have to meet the requirements, though in this case that is irrelevant.

 

Which means this is quite powerful. Perhaps moving one or both of the diagonal arrows to the sides, so it has fewer monsters Linked to it unless it's in an MMZ?

 

You cannot use a Link2 for this one in this case, since it specifically needs 3 monsters, rather than having "2 or more" as Gaia Video Knight and Decoder Linker do, so as a Link3 itself you necessarily need 3 regular and/or Link1 monsters for its Summon; using any Link2 + 2 regular/Link1 monsters would make it go past Link3, and thus this wouldn't be an option to Link Summon.

[Delibirb]

You cannot use a Link2 for this one in this case, since it specifically needs 3 monsters, rather than having "2 or more" as Gaia Video Knight and Decoder Linker do, so as a Link3 itself you necessarily need 3 regular and/or Link1 monsters for its Summon; using any Link2 + 2 regular/Link1 monsters would make it go past Link3, and thus this wouldn't be an option to Link Summon.

During their Main Phase 1 or 2, the turn player can Link Summon a Link Monster from the Extra Deck by first declaring the action and then selecting the Link Monster in their Extra Deck that they intend to Link Summon. Following this, they send the requisite face-up Link Materials they control to the Graveyard, as listed on the Link Monster itself, provided that two conditions are fulfilled.

 

1. The number of sent Link Materials satisfies the number of required Link Materials listed on the Link Monster.
2. The combined number of any sent non-Link Monsters and the combined Link Numbers of any sent Link Monsters exactly matches the Link Number of that Link Monster.

Source 

 

There are 2 ways of Link Summoning!!

>>Send Materials to the Grave Equal to the Link Number!

>You can Link Summon something from your Extra Deck by sending the same number of monsters that meet the material requirements written in the card’s effect box, whose total numbers equal to the LINK number, from the field to the Graveyard

>>Decrease Materials by Using Link Monsters

>Link Monsters are treated as the same number of materials as its LINK Number, however to use them you must match the requirements written on the card!

 

Source

 

You can therefore use a Link-2 monster and 1 monster that is either non-Link, or a Link-1, so long as they all meet the requirements of the card, which is merely having been Special Summoned, in this case. You are correct though that you cannot use two Link-2 monsters, or a Link-2 and two monsters, as that would equate to four.

 

I recognize these are new rules, (and with the exception of "any number of material" monsters there shouldn't be a number of requisite materials listed in the text box, just the conditions of the materials, as the Link number takes care of the quantity) but do try to double check for yourself before you make a claim as fact.

[Darj]

 

During their Main Phase 1 or 2, the turn player can Link Summon a Link Monster from the Extra Deck by first declaring the action and then selecting the Link Monster in their Extra Deck that they intend to Link Summon. Following this, they send the requisite face-up Link Materials they control to the Graveyard, as listed on the Link Monster itself, provided that two conditions are fulfilled.

 

1. The number of sent Link Materials satisfies the number of required Link Materials listed on the Link Monster.
2. The combined number of any sent non-Link Monsters and the combined Link Numbers of any sent Link Monsters exactly matches the Link Number of that Link Monster.

Source 

 

There are 2 ways of Link Summoning!!

>>Send Materials to the Grave Equal to the Link Number!

>You can Link Summon something from your Extra Deck by sending the same number of monsters that meet the material requirements written in the card’s effect box, whose total numbers equal to the LINK number, from the field to the Graveyard

>>Decrease Materials by Using Link Monsters

>Link Monsters are treated as the same number of materials as its LINK Number, however to use them you must match the requirements written on the card!

 

Source

 

You can therefore use a Link-2 monster and 1 monster that is either non-Link, or a Link-1, so long as they all meet the requirements of the card, which is merely having been Special Summoned, in this case. You are correct though that you cannot use two Link-2 monsters, or a Link-2 and two monsters, as that would equate to four.

 

I recognize these are new rules, (and with the exception of "any number of material" monsters there shouldn't be a number of requisite materials listed in the text box, just the conditions of the materials, as the Link number takes care of the quantity) but do try to double check for yourself before you make a claim as fact.

 

 

I'm informed.

If you use a Link2 + 1 non-Link/Link1 monster, that's 2 materials, not 3, and thus don't match the summoning requirements written on the card in the OP:

3 Special Summoned Monsters

 

It works for Gaia Video and Decoder because they have a "2 or more" in their summoning requirements, making the method explained in the source applicable. But this card here specifically asks for 3.

[Sicma Crow]

I intentionally made it so you can't use Link monsters, so that it matches 4 dimension dragons (pre-Link era) better. Any answer about changing summon condition to "3 Monsters Special Summoned from Extra Deck except Link Monsters"?

Where's that template from? I need that immediately.

 

It's Adobe PS template, I've found it on deviant...

[Darj]

I intentionally made it so you can't use Link monsters, so that it matches 4 dimension dragons (pre-Link era) better. Any answer about changing summon condition to "3 Monsters Special Summoned from Extra Deck except Link Monsters"?

 

Hmm, it is too specific for my liking but it would work well. That way you wouldn't be able to ladder into it through Link Monsters.

[Thomas★Zero]

In terms of this with other link monsters wouldn't you make the materials 2 or more Special Summoned monsters so you can go 1 LINK-2 and 1 Special Summoned monster to make this. Plus it would make the laddering into it much easier.

[Sicma Crow]

In terms of this with other link monsters wouldn't you make the materials 2 or more Special Summoned monsters so you can go 1 LINK-2 and 1 Special Summoned monster to make this. Plus it would make the laddering into it much easier.

Summoning condition is intentionally restrictive. I wanted to make it fit the theme of 4 dragons of Arc-V,  that's why I excluded Link monsters from materials. 

[Delibirb]

I'm informed.

If you use a Link2 + 1 non-Link/Link1 monster, that's 2 materials, not 3, and thus don't match the summoning requirements written on the card in the OP:

3 Special Summoned Monsters

 

It works for Gaia Video and Decoder because they have a "2 or more" in their summoning requirements, making the method explained in the source applicable. But this card here specifically asks for 3.

 

 

Hmm, it is too specific for my liking but it would work well. That way you wouldn't be able to ladder into it through Link Monsters.

What changed between these two posts? First you say you understand but then demonstrate you did not, then you say the change is good because now you can't do what I said you could in the previous version.

[Darj]

What changed between these two posts? First you say you understand but then demonstrate you did not, then you say the change is good because now you can't do what I said you could in the previous version.

 

When did I demonstrate that I did not understand? The part about requiring 3 materials should be correct. If it worked as you suggest, then you could use Decoder and Gaia to Summon copies of themselves, but that's not possible because despite fulfilling the 3 materials on their own, they need at least 2 monsters for their Summon. Likewise, you cannot use less than 3 materials for this card.

 

To answer the question, I will explain:

The original version could use any 3 Special Summoned monsters. I wasn't convinced by it since 3 Special Summoned monsters is relatively easy to set up.

 

Then, OP suggested to exclude Link Monsters from its summoning requirements:

 

I intentionally made it so you can't use Link monsters, so that it matches 4 dimension dragons (pre-Link era) better. Any answer about changing summon condition to "3 Monsters Special Summoned from Extra Deck except Link Monsters"?

 

Now I find it fine, since you cannot Link Summon it from Link1 monsters anymore, making it more difficult to Summon. For example, turning a Normal Summoned monster into a Link1 Monster, and thus a Special Summoned monster, which then could be used for this card with its original summoning requirements.

I did make a mistake saying that it can't ladder anymore when it couldn't ladder in the first place, but I definitely was mainly thinking about summoning Link1 monsters, opening Linked Zones, and then use them to contribute for the Summon of this card. I should have written "ladder into it through Link1 Monsters" instead.

[Delibirb]

The rules as we have them are quite plain. "Link Monsters are treated as the same number of materials as its LINK Number..." There is no reason that, without explicitly excluding Link monsters as this card now does, that a link2 monster and 1 other cannot be used to summon a link3.

[Darj]

I see how it isn't clear, but really, If it didn't work like that then, let's say, Decoder wouldn't need the "2 or more" in its requirements and may as well just read "Effect monsters", and you would be able to use it to Summon a copy of itself or swap it into a different Link3.

[Delibirb]

I see how it isn't clear, but really, If it didn't work like that then, let's say, Decoder wouldn't need the "2 or more" in its requirements and may as well just read "Effect monsters", and you would be able to use it to Summon a copy of itself or swap it into a different Link3.

As I understand, you can do that, there's just no logical reason to. The only reason Decoder and such say "2 or more" is because they have effects based on how many materials you use, so it's beneficial to use more. On all others, there isn't really a reason to state the number, it's likely just for redundancy, though until we get a rulebook explanation, it creates more confusion than clarity.

 

I also would like to apologize if I came off as hostile earlier; I was still tense from a thread in debates.

[Darj]

As I understand, you can do that, there's just no logical reason to. The only reason Decoder and such say "2 or more" is because they have effects based on how many materials you use, so it's beneficial to use more. On all others, there isn't really a reason to state the number, it's likely just for redundancy, though until we get a rulebook explanation, it creates more confusion than clarity.

 

I also would like to apologize if I came off as hostile earlier; I was still tense from a thread in debates.

 

I believe you can't just swap Link Monsters with another of the same Link number that also matches the requirements, but that hasn't be directly confirmed. But it makes sense for it to not be a thing, otherwise it would be a turmoil of Link Monster spam and abuse (grave generation, toolboxing, marker switching, etc.); and it justifies the "2 or more" clauses in the Link3 monsters revealed so far.

Decoder doesn't have an effect that relies on the number of materials used for it actually, but benefits from monsters being linked to it. Also, that wouldn't explain Gaia Video also having the "2 or more" clause, despite having no effect.

 

And, I accept the apology.

[Christoph the Sky Sorcerer]

I really like it. The effect does seem a bit powerful (as well as the fact that it only gives the player who summoned it Link Zones), but the requirement of needing three Extra Deck Monsters to summon definitely makes it harder to bring out (pretty much guaranteeing that you already need at least one Link Monster on the field in addition to the three materials in order to summon it). This feels like the sort of thing that would be released in the actual card game in about a year, when most people have adjusted to Link Monsters and Konami wants to throw a wrench into things. 

 

More importantly, where did you get that template? And how can I make my own Link Monsters? Neither the main editor nor the TGCEditor program has been updated for Link Monsters yet. 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I really like it. The effect does seem a bit powerful (as well as the fact that it only gives the player who summoned it Link Zones), but the requirement of needing three Extra Deck Monsters to summon definitely makes it harder to bring out (pretty much guaranteeing that you already need at least one Link Monster on the field in addition to the three materials in order to summon it). This feels like the sort of thing that would be released in the actual card game in about a year, when most people have adjusted to Link Monsters and Konami wants to throw a wrench into things. 

 

More importantly, where did you get that template? And how can I make my own Link Monsters? Neither the main editor nor the TGCEditor program has been updated for Link Monsters yet. 

 

1. My guess would be Grezar's template on deviantArt (he did mention finding it there, and I don't know of other users who have made their own templates just yet.

2. You can use the above template if you have Photoshop, or I have a template in Showcase that runs on GIMP (which needs an update).

 

But yeah, it's only been half a week since we got Link Monsters revealed, so there still exist some questions about what an appropriate power level for them should be moving forward or how potent this can end up being in the long run.

 

As a whole, Pendulums can probably do this best during mid-game (at least for now anyway), as I don't really see too many Decks who'll opt to use actual ED monsters given the mechanic changes (even if you open your zones up). We'll have to see how much of an impact this will have once Links are fully rolled out, as again, it's still early. Right now, destroying the monsters that already exist generally will benefit you (unless something like Decode Talker gets killed, and you happen to have a monster Linked to it). Protection is generally fine, considering the effort needed in the first place.

[Sicma Crow]

1. My guess would be Grezar's template on deviantArt (he did mention finding it there, and I don't know of other users who have made their own templates just yet.

 

Yeah, I've found it again, it is Grezar's work.

Here's a the link guys: http://grezar.deviantart.com/art/Link-Monster-Template-664305459

All you need is newer Photoshop version.

 

 

 

 

 

As a whole, Pendulums can probably do this best

That was the idea when I changed summoning conditions... to be honest, at that moment I wasn't informed that pendulums are going to get same restriction as others when they get to ED. Now, it'd be really hard to summon this thing...  but I dunno what to change anymore.

[Darj]

You could make it require any non-Link Special summoned monsters. That way it gets easier to Summoned, but can't ladder into it from Link1s, nor resort to turning Normal Summoned monsters into Special Summoned monsters by using them as material for Link1s.

[Christoph the Sky Sorcerer]

Yeah, I've found it again, it is Grezar's work.

Here's a the link guys: http://grezar.deviantart.com/art/Link-Monster-Template-664305459

All you need is newer Photoshop version.

 

Ah, dang. Was hoping there was some program to do it automatically (since I have neither Photoshop nor the patience or skill necessary to use it), but I guess it's too early to reasonably expect something like that. Guess I'll just wait until the TCG Editor updates in a couple months. Either way, the design is still awesome, and I think you've done a very impressive job overall!