Pot of greed

[Babymon]

Exodia was never tier 1, and making Exodia Tier 1 is never really the main argument.

 

But because the concept of Exodia exists, Draw Power effects are almost always nerfed, restricted, or banned if they are too flexible and generic, and quickly cut down if they do something extra in addition to a draw, such as One Day of Peace. Upstart Goblin got Limited not because of Exodia, but because every Deck would run 3, because there was no real reason not to.

 

The problem isn't Exodia. The problem is cards like Pot of Greed require no additional investment of resources, no cost or downside, gives positive card advantage, and so there is no reason not to run it if you are allowed to. Pot of Greed doesn't make a more diverse or healthy game state by existing. Even arguments can be made for Raigeki and Dark Hole being allowed because it promotes using backrow options and not over-extending, because of the risk of Dark Hole wiping out all your resources as punishment. Pot of Greed doesn't offer this angle, and arguably makes the game state more OTK-centric than it already is.

 

 

Many cards in this game don't require investment or downside to play them. For example zoodiac engine and rat just need 1 to start it and you get for minimum nice free monster that can pop/disrupt your opponent plays at any time. Speedroids are also another card that don't require any downside to playing them. Raigeki doesn't require downside to playing it either. I can go on but you get my point.

 

Hell, soul charge doesn't require much investment. 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Upstart goblin wasn't limited because it was in everything. It was a consistency hit toward... Monarch I believe.

 

The problem in Pot of Greed isn't that it is in everything. It is in that pot of greed is absolutely busted. Black nailed it on the head on the previous page.

 

A card being in every deck is fine. Raigeki was fine (well, kind of, it's a bit more complicated) bottomless trap hole was fine in the past, the list really can go on. Staples are totally fine, no matter how prolific they are.

 

The card is, in every instance, broken. We can argue to this guy about his bullshit backward logic, but it's pointless. Especially when we stub our toes on fallacies such as cards being hit because they are omnipresent and exodia dictating more than 5 slots on the banlist.

[~British Soul~]

At this point I'm certain this account is just a troll anyway (have mods checked IP?) but I feel the importance of card draw should always be reiterated.

I'm sure you're not the only one who is thinking this tbph.

 

I don't understand what this card does, can someone explain it to me?

[soul Blast 2 and choose one of your untapped rear guards and knock it out] If you have more Prizes than your opponent, you may pay the cost, if you do; buddy call a resonator, put cards from the top of your deck into your clock until you level up then draw 2 cards and if you draw a "Steven's Advice" via this effect, reveal it and admit that you need to git gud, pay 3 gauge and perform a damage check. (Trigger effects are nullified)​

 

Something along those lines ::  .

[Blake]

Upstart goblin wasn't limited because it was in everything. It was a consistency hit toward... Monarch I believe.

The problem in Pot of Greed isn't that it is in everything. It is in that pot of greed is absolutely busted. Black nailed it on the head on the previous page.

A card being in every deck is fine. Raigeki was fine (well, kind of, it's a bit more complicated) bottomless trap hole was fine in the past, the list really can go on. Staples are totally fine, no matter how prolific they are.

The card is, in every instance, broken. We can argue to this guy about his bullshit backward logic, but it's pointless. Especially when we stub our toes on fallacies such as cards being hit because they are omnipresent and exodia dictating more than 4 slots on the banlist.

last part is legit, it's why bom is on the list

 

Upstart was a combination hit to both Monarchs and general YGO, because it's rare for resolving 1 to cost you the ability to kill/2 is still kinda rare to do that/3 will but shrug

[Babymon]

Upstart goblin wasn't limited because it was in everything. It was a consistency hit toward... Monarch I believe.

 

The problem in Pot of Greed isn't that it is in everything. It is in that pot of greed is absolutely busted. Black nailed it on the head on the previous page.

 

A card being in every deck is fine. Raigeki was fine (well, kind of, it's a bit more complicated) bottomless trap hole was fine in the past, the list really can go on. Staples are totally fine, no matter how prolific they are.

 

The card is, in every instance, broken. We can argue to this guy about his bullshit backward logic, but it's pointless. Especially when we stub our toes on fallacies such as cards being hit because they are omnipresent and exodia dictating more than 5 slots on the banlist.

So you just said staples are fine especially when they give unfair advantage but a card that lets you draw 2 and gives no other combos is broken. OK. You just admitted that staples are fine but somehow this card is busted even though we have draw cards that are better because they set up your field for you.

 

And i like how when i don't jump on the mob mentality and stand my ground with an opposing viewpoint you guys resort to calling me a troll to discredit anything I'm saying. Solid debating skills guys.

[Chaosix]

I'm sure you're not the only one who is thinking this tbph.

 

 

Agreed. This is the same guy who thought that Chain Energy was really good, but somehow doesn't think that Pot of Greed is.

[TF2_The_Scout]

I said you can possibly go into a rank 8 if you have another monster but me saying you have white dragon in grave is not making up scenario.This is exactly where you want that dragon to be. Pot just gives you more cards in your hand it doesn't set up combos or synergies with decks.

Except with the Galaxy example, I too was right where I wanted to be. If I had used Trade-In, I would have discarded 2 cards to make the same play that Pot of Greed would of allowed for with only 1 discard.

[~British Soul~]

Agreed. This is the same guy who thought that Chain Energy was really good, but somehow doesn't think that Pot of Greed is.

When I saw that (Chain Energy) I was like "Da fuq is he thinking".

[Resident Fascist]

Honestly you should all just stop replying to Babymon until they learn how to make decent arguments.

[Babymon]

Agreed. This is the same guy who thought that Chain Energy was really good, but somehow doesn't think that Pot of Greed is.

I never said chain energy was good, i was just suggesting it could maybe be used as an alternate way to slow down people from spamming and FTK. The thought came about when i was running Red eyes XYZ and notice my opponent was far less willing to spam, with it out allowing me to push for game.

[~~~~]

Many cards in this game don't require investment or downside to play them. For example zoodiac engine and rat just need 1 to start it and you get for minimum nice free monster that can pop/disrupt your opponent plays at any time. Speedroids are also another card that don't require any downside to playing them. Raigeki doesn't require downside to playing it either. I can go on but you get my point.

 

Hell, soul charge doesn't require much investment. 

Raigeki does have downsides. You might draw it turn 1 when you could have drawn a combo piece. Or your opponent might be playing majespecters and it will do nothing, so it's as if you didn't draw anything at all.

 

 

They can't combo off the card but it does the same thing pot does. It thins their deck for 2. If i play POG of allure the net effect is the same

But it does more than "deckthin". I don't care about increasing my odds by a small percentage for a few turns down the line, I care about now and I might have been able to use that one monster I have to banish off Allure.

 

And the truth is that by using Pot of Greed, you only increase the chance of drawing Trade-In to get the discard you so crave. Or if you have a Trade-In and no Level 8s, it gives you a decent chance drawing that.

 

 

Tell me how world breaking having that card helps you out. I've tried it in decks and many times i would rather have had trade or d-draw which let me send monsters to the grave.

I'm not saying that it would be game breaking. Just that it gives a significant advantage to whoever draws it, regardless of the situation. That's needlessly increasing the amount of topdeck luck required in yugioh, and needlessly reducing deck diversity by making every deck run the same 3 cards.

[Chaosix]

I never said chain energy was good, i was just suggesting it could maybe be used as an alternate way to slow down people from spamming and FTK. The thought came about when i was running Red eyes XYZ and notice my opponent was far less willing to spam, with it out allowing me to push for game.

Are you sure that's not because they couldn't spam, or had a bad opponent?

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

they give unfair advantage

they really don't in most cases

a card that lets you draw 2 and gives no other combos is broken.

Yes, it is

we have draw cards that are better

LOL

And i like how when i don't jump on the mob mentality and stand my ground with an opposing viewpoint you guys resort to calling me a troll to discredit anything I'm saying. Solid debating skills guys.

We aren't calling you are to discredit what you say. We are assuming you are a troll because otherwise you are unwittingly overwhelmingly obnoxiously wrong about virtually everything you have expressed about the state of this game. If anything, we are giving you more credit than you are due.

[Babymon]

Honestly you should all just stop replying to Babymon until they learn how to make decent arguments.

 

I did make a decent argument but you guys keep going about how an additional card somehow makes this card inherently broken when I've explain my stance before with actual field testing (not theoretical BS) that shows this card does not and is not as broken as people think they are. The problem is we can all come up with theoretical in the blue and keep to our arguments about this card is broken etc and shouldn't come back but until you actually test it and see for yourself it's all just theoretical bs.

 

This is no different than Black Luster Soldier scenario many years back. Players were freaking out about how it was going to be a staple in every deck and so broken and was going to ruin the game when it got off the list. Now, people don't give a flying funk.

Honestly you should all just stop replying to Babymon until they learn how to make decent arguments.

 

I did make a decent argument but you guys keep going about how an additional card somehow makes this card inherently broken when I've explain my stance before with actual field testing (not theoretical BS) that shows this card does not and is not as broken as people think they are. The problem is we can all come up with theoretical in the blue and keep to our arguments about this card is broken etc and shouldn't come back but until you actually test it and see for yourself it's all just theoretical bs.

 

This is no different than Black Luster Soldier scenario many years back. Players were freaking out about how it was going to be a staple in every deck and so broken and was going to ruin the game when it got off the list. Now, people don't give a flying funk.

they really don't in most casesYes, it isLOLWe aren't calling you are to discredit what you say. We are assuming you are a troll because otherwise you are unwittingly overwhelmingly obnoxiously wrong about virtually everything you have expressed about the state of this game. If anything, we are giving you more credit than you are due.

 

 

 

they really don't in most casesYes, it isLOLWe aren't calling you are to discredit what you say. We are assuming you are a troll because otherwise you are unwittingly overwhelmingly obnoxiously wrong about virtually everything you have expressed about the state of this game. If anything, we are giving you more credit than you are 

 

 

No first of all calling anyone a troll because they are against what you are saying is childish and show lack of maturity on your part. 

 

Secondly, Yes there are many staples which give unfair advantage. Your opponent set up field and use down their hand to summon a bunch of monsters (which happens a lot in this game). You play raigeki. and get advantage.

 

 

Please explain how drawing 2 with no other inherent effect makes this card broken. I've explain their are far better to draw 2 and then send a card to the grave then to just draw 2. Hell, why do you think cards like foolish burial are limited if graveyard dunking wasn't important or why people use Grass looks greener today so often?

 

Yes because lol is such a funny way to counter an argument.

[Chaosix]

 

This is no different than Black Luster Soldier scenario many years back. Players were freaking out about how it was going to be a staple in every deck and so broken and was going to ruin the game when it got off the list. Now, people don't give a flying funk.

except it is. Unless they come out with a "Pot of Broken: Draw 3 cards", it is. The problem with BLS is that you need to run light/dark monsters, which not all decks would do. This however, has no downsides except in like, "make your opponent draw cards turbo" Which i don't think anyone would literally play willingly, would use it because there is no point not to.

[~~~~]

A card being in every deck is fine. Raigeki was fine (well, kind of, it's a bit more complicated) bottomless trap hole was fine in the past, the list really can go on. Staples are totally fine, no matter how prolific they are.

There's a difference between a card that's staple most formats and one that's staple in not only all formats so far, but almost all imaginable future formats.

 

For example, November 2015 (I think) Raigeki was considered bad because most of the meta then was Kozmo and Majespecter. (Immediately after that killer banlist).

 

Even if cards like Nat Beast, Village of the Spellcasters and Spell Cancerler became super popular, you have a wide window of time to use PoG (turn 1).

 

----

Babymon, if Pot of Greed is bad, why do people run Pot of Desires?

[Delibirb]

Personally, I see no inherent issue with cards that every deck can and would run, as long as it is accessible to everyone, and they are limited to the appropriate degree, ie Solemn Warning at common at 1.

 

The problem with Pot of Greed is not that it can and will be played by everyone. Not to me, anyway. The problem is, as has been stated here and many times before, that it tips the scale too far the moment it's drawn. Many staples that are allowed to remain despite obvious power are Trap Cards, because they are slow and can be maneuvered around; even the ones that aren't necessarily reactive. Cards like Trade-In and the like can stay because yes, while they generally are used by decks that want to take advantage of the cost, they require certain conditions to already be in place, a certain level of skill in deciding when to use it or what to pay the cost with. A Spell card with no restrictions or conditions, that immediately punishes the opponent merely by existing because they didn't draw one too, as Black put it, adds more luck without adding proportionate skill.

[~~~~]

But not every deck runs Solemn Warning. Some prefer to go second, and since nearly every other deck prefers going first, they are almost guaranteed to go second.

 

The only deck that wouldn't run PoG at 3 is Superheavy Samurai

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

At some pt additional consistency won't change much, certain meta decks like Zoodiacs have already reached it

 

Not saying PoG should return (look at page 1), just theorizing it won't much if they DID bring it back

 

---

 

Harpie's Feather Duster and Dark Hole are in 97% of Main decks in OCG atm, and 100% in Side+Main

 

Monster Reborn is low 90's

 

It's not like we don't have staples that are capable of providing +1's

 

PoG is just unconditional in doing so

[Delibirb]

But not every deck runs Solemn Warning. Some prefer to go second, and since nearly every other deck prefers going first, they are almost guaranteed to go second.

 

The only deck that wouldn't run PoG at 3 is Superheavy Samurai

I accidentally omitted part of my explanation. I was attempting to refer to cards that everyone played in the past, not necessarily now.

[notcleverusername]

But not every deck runs Solemn Warning. Some prefer to go second, and since nearly every other deck prefers going first, they are almost guaranteed to go second.

 

The only deck that wouldn't run PoG at 3 is Superheavy Samurai

Nah Superheavy Samurai just switches to the obviously superior MACHINE DUPLICATION version

 

Anyways daily note to Babymon that you're either a troll or bad at this game and either way you should feel bad

[~~~~]

Nah Superheavy Samurai just switches to the obviously superior MACHINE DUPLICATION version

 

Anyways daily note to Babymon that you're either a troll or bad at this game and either way you should feel bad

Nooo! Babymon should not feel bad. They are cute

[Draconus297]

Okay, Babymon, here is where you are getting stuck, on a logical level-

 

YGO is not a game designed around resources.

 

Unlike MtG's mana restrictions, or Pokémon needing Energy, YGO has only one real "resource"- card advantage. Decks are designed as small as possible to ensure that advantage (with the rare exceptions that come up like That Grass Looks Greener), and draw is almost always a good thing.

 

Why is Pot of Desires in every Deck, despite its monstrous cost? It doesn't dip into advantage.

 

Why does every Deck need a million and one search cards now? To maintain card advantage.

 

Why does every DARK Deck in existence run at least 1 Allure? It's an easy-to-pay-for card that makes your Deck thinner.

 

Pot of Greed is advantage incarnate with a creepy grin. No restrictions on its use, no cost to weigh it down, and it basically means you're running a Deck of less than 40 cards, which most players would kill for. It's brainless, easy "have some cards" that any Deck (except SHS) can run, and even if some Decks can plus off Graveyard support present through things like Trade-In, it's not like there's anything preventing them from running both PoG and Trade-In, and suddenly now you have a better chance of having that Trade-In in hand to discard your White Spirit, which means your argument suddenly bit itself in the face. Draw cards only work with a restriction on them, and sometimes even then they aren't all that balanced.

 

The Greedy Pot is a meme for a reason.

 

Now stop the nonsense, and preserve what little respect people have for you and your opinions if there is any left. Please.

[TF2_The_Scout]

I think Draco just single-handedly destroyed this thread.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I hate to be that guy, but I'm gonna have to point out a few issues with that post.

Unlike MtG's mana restrictions, or Pokémon needing Energy, YGO has only one real "resource"- card advantage.

A point could be made that the turn's normal summon, as well as available monster card zones (especially linked zones, now) are a resource system in and of themselves. Of course, this is just semantics, and not really related to the topic at hand. Just wanted to mention such, since it was an interesting thought that came to mind.

Decks are designed as small as possible to ensure that advantage

No, they arent. The size of your deck has no bearing on card advantage. This is why pot of desires is such a good card.

 

Decks are almost always 40 cards because it increases the odds of any random card drawn from the deck being the cards you want. Zoodiac Barrage, Scrap Factory, Emergency Teleport, the list goes on. The lower your total deck size, the higher the statistical probability of drawing any single given card. This increases consistency. Deck thinning, through cards such as upstart goblin, toon table of contents (lol), and chicken game decreases this effective deck size, making each single draw more potent.

 

Card advantage, on the other hand, is a different concept its own. The focus of card advantage is to get out more than you put in. As is clear, the previously listed cards do not provide such advantage. Cards that do include Pot of Desires, Reckless Greed, and, yes, Pot of Greed.

 

Thinning the deck increases the probability of achieving the desired result on each attempt, while drawing additional cards (beyond that of +0s) increase the number of attempts. Drawing cards does in and of itself increase the odds of drawing whatever may remain, but that isn't usually referred as deck thinning, since the phrase has connotation of reducing the number of cards in your deck as the primary goal.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. Moving on.

Why is Pot of Desires in every Deck, despite its monstrous cost? It doesn't dip into advantage.

Okay, so I feel like I need to mention that Pot of Desires is not in every deck. It is actually in very few, sheerly because the way in which it works, despite not actually being very costly at all, interferes with the manner in which many decks operate, since there is a large variety of cards you simply can't afford to lose access to. That said, your point is still correct about its lack of cost in regards to advantage.

Why does every Deck need a million and one search cards now? To maintain card advantage.

No. Cards like RotA, terraforming, et cetera have no direct impact on card advantage. They are used because they increase consistency, and increase the effective number of a desired card one can have in a deck. Cards that search for multiple things have the added usefulness of creating versatility, as its result depends upon whatever may suit you best. The Nekroz of Brionac is a fantastic example of the latter, but does not add to card advantage.

Why does every DARK Deck in existence run at least 1 Allure? It's an easy-to-pay-for card that makes your Deck thinner.

They absolutely don't. Just because a deck can utilize it, doesn't mean they should. The decks that make best use of allure are those that have synergy with it. Taking advantage of the banish is what it takes for allure to be a powerful tech, rather than a mediocre +0.

Pot of Greed is advantage incarnate with a creepy grin. No restrictions on its use, no cost to weigh it down, and it basically means you're running a Deck of less than 40 cards, which most players would kill for. It's brainless, easy "have some cards" that any Deck (except SHS) can run, and even if some Decks can plus off Graveyard support present through things like Trade-In, it's not like there's anything preventing them from running both PoG and Trade-In, and suddenly now you have a better chance of having that Trade-In in hand to discard your White Spirit, which means your argument suddenly bit itself in the face. Draw cards only work with a restriction on them, and sometimes even then they aren't all that balanced.

What you say here is mostly true, but you again falsely equate deck thinning to card advantage and vice versa. Pot of Greed isn't just amazing because you have a lower effective deck size (though that is a result of it). It is amazing because two cards are better than one. When you are ahead, it puts you further ahead. When you are behind, it pulls you up to your feet by the chest hair. It is a perpetual motion machine, putting out more than you put in, rain or shine, every time.

 

The power of card advantage goes miles beyond just a matter of consistency.