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THE SUBMISSION BOX [Moderator Transparency Discussion Thread]


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#1
Zaiduck

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The main Transparency thread can be found here.

 

This thread is for the members to (politely) voice their opinions about how the mod team is doing, and to give us any comments or suggestions that you feel are relevant, in regards to the content posted in the main Transparency thread. Though It will mainly be me responding to you all, other moderators will also be allowed to make their presence known in here. Please note that this topic will be heavily moderated and off-topic posts or flaming will be met with little tolerance, thank you.

 

-Zai

 

 

 


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#2
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Please note that this thread will be zero tolerance, and will be enforced.  Thank you for your cooperation.


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#3
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The mod team has gone through a good set of internal revisions by removing mods who weren't very active, or who wanted to resign. Black, Bree, Nai, Rai, Lily

 

But I'm not happy with Zai's role as it currently stands. 

 

The finals comments in this thread https://forum.yugioh...nounced/page-13 were urging people to give him a chance despite the situations that gave rise to his modship. That's reasonable.

 

He's been a mod for more than a month now, and was promoted yesterday. He's not an unreasonable person. He's not wholly unfit for modship, but this topic is his forey into Public Relations. In contrast, his recently resigned co-patriot Bree was fully involved with the public till she felt she had personal issues. At which time she promptly tendered her resignation. 

 

Zai has not been doing the job he was placed into power to do. He is doing it now, but he didn't do it in his trial period. Those are not the circumstances by which I'm comfortable with a promotion, or even a stasis on his modship.

 

The timeline:

 

Dad Announces PRMod Role 

Questionable handling + misunderstanding

People elect Bree, Zai also chosen

Compromise is that Zai be given a chance

Bree starts her initiative

Bree resigned

....

 

....

Giga makes a critical topic post ~ the time of Zai's promotion after his trail period

Zai then after a topic focused on his inaction, makes a PR move. Select group decry breaking of the social contract as a lynch mob.

 

 

 

We shouldn't have to parent him into doing the job he was selected for. If he wants RP mod, he should have applied for it upon Nai's resignation. If he wanted TCG Modship, that's always been open. If he wanted Debates modship, there are people already trying for that. 

 

It's like the mod team has learned nothing about just putting people in power. Where was this debates and TCG modship discussion ever?

 

 

Vote of no confidence given his trial period activity. 


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#4
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Ngl winter's post is 4 days old and it hasn't been responded to, and that's not really in the team's favor.

I understand not wanting to spark a fight, but when there are no other posts, it just seems like there should be SOME form of correspondence or attempt to assuage concerns.

Especially considering how he does bring up points directly in regards to this thread's sister topic.

A thread about transparency and communication between the team and the members of the site began with someone being ignored for days, until I noticed. "Undesirable" or not, that's not building bridges.

that said, if a fucking fight or mob mentality begins happening on either side I will let you have it


#5
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Silence = it's own answer

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Pocket_veto

Something like this: "A pocket veto is a legislative maneuver that allows a president or other official with veto power to exercise that power over a bill by taking no action (instead of affirmatively vetoing it)."



I've said my bit given my continued disgust and disappointment with the way the admin team handled and continues to handle this situation, but I've said all that needs to be said and the ball is in their court. Their silence tells me all I need to know about the vision they seeks to implement.

Different topic

Any movement on the suggestions Tormey provided?

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#6
evilfusion

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Oh, so THAT'S why I thought this situation had died down days ago. ...because it literally stopped being discussed days ago.

 

My apologies to Winter for your post being overlooked. (Why is this thread stickied, and therefore, very hard to notice? That might explain the lack of other posts in here)

 

I will point out that Giga making his post ~ Zai's promotion in the timeline is nothing more than a very tragic coincidence. You can blame me for it.

 

As for "where is the Debates/TCG Modship discussion ever?" question...it was only discussed internally, because we aren't actively looking for new moderators, but rather, determining who, among the ALREADY ACTIVE Moderators can potentially fill the position or assist the primary moderators. When many of our mods either resigned or got trimmed, we received several warnings from those resigning mods to not make the same mistake as before and promptly try to find replacements, and instead work on having the team as it stands cover perceived gaps, until it can be determined whether additional bodies is for the better.


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#7
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Oh, so THAT'S why I thought this situation had died down days ago. ...because it literally stopped being discussed days ago.

 

My apologies to Winter for your post being overlooked. (Why is this thread stickied, and therefore, very hard to notice? That might explain the lack of other posts in here)

 

I will point out that Giga making his post ~ Zai's promotion in the timeline is nothing more than a very tragic coincidence. You can blame me for it.

 

As for "where is the Debates/TCG Modship discussion ever?" question...it was only discussed internally, because we aren't actively looking for new moderators, but rather, determining who, among the ALREADY ACTIVE Moderators can potentially fill the position or assist the primary moderators. When many of our mods either resigned or got trimmed, we received several warnings from those resigning mods to not make the same mistake as before and promptly try to find replacements, and instead work on having the team as it stands cover perceived gaps, until it can be determined whether additional bodies is for the better.

Any concern will be spun as a witch-hunt, so I'll keep it brief here and expand in PM, or here w/ your permission later on.

 

1)

 

Having frequented both those sections fairly often, TCG/Debates, I'm not entirely sure what merits a new mod being needed in either. Would like elaboration on why this was needed?

 

2)

 

As much as I dislike a sprawling bureaucracy with multiple mods doing next to nothing (the old Order), it's equally dangerous, in my eyes, for you all to embrace a foot-in-the-door-expansionist model.

 

You guys do NOT remove mods easily. ie. Roxas, .Rai, LZ, or the "Zai Trail period" deal.

 

Adding additional powers to the mods w/ little to no public discourse is only going to deepen the swamp. 

 

3)

 

Zai is mod now- for better or worse- that seems to be the choice you have passed down to us.

 

Don't you think, at least for the sake of PR, that there should be an external discussion about the expansion of his powers?

 

I'm a little disappointed how little PR is actually went on after Bree's departure & hope you guys will endeavor to at least now right this ship.

 

What exactly were the Zai's qualifications for TCG/OCG & Debate mods? Is he a prolific YGO player? Does he know the community in Debates? How much has he interacted with either? I trust you guys must have good answers for both those questions (yes & intimately) given that y'all didn't feel the need alert the public about changes to the public relations moderator until the 13th hour. 

 

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice......???

 

I hope the Irony here isn't running too thick


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#8
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I can't speak for the other mods, but I've had my own share of things to deal with (part of it being the CC reformation that Zai alluded to in the other thread). I kept it separate from this thread, so it doesn't get lost among other things mentioned in the linked thread here. 

 

Like the thread mentioned (and I think I reiterated this point in the CC News thread), while I do have ideas for a new mod to succeed Black (though the position is still open if he ever finds time to return), I will not be pushing for it until the need arises (which essentially me being hit hard with university work [same with Gadjiltron]). When the time comes, you'll know and will be given the opportunity to weigh in on said candidates, as well as suggest other users. 

 

(The same applies for Byakuya's potential TCG modship, once discussions are finalized and the need arises.)

 

Concerning Zai's role as a temporary Debate co-mod, Dad requested some help in the section if he should get busy with coursework or cannot watch the area. Out of the current mods, he's the only one who goes in there on a regular basis (well, bar Roxas before he got dropped). 

 

====

Zai probably could've done more during his trial period as PR mod, yes, but as he's mentioned, there's been a lot on his plate lately so that's partly a reason for the delays.

====

 

As for the suggestions Tormey made, we've addressed them amongst ourselves, but it's a matter of seeing if evilfusion has the capacity to do SOME of these tasks or will they require YCMaker to show himself again. Some of the things like a "Supreme Overlord" thing for evilfusion were talked about (or some way to differentiate him from the other two Supers), but at the moment, it's not really needed. (Yeah, evil is technically the main Super doing stuff; Night is busy with his job as a graphic designer and Flame likely has coursework). Others like removing unneeded forums is being looked into (right now, it'd probably be moving 1v1s back into General Contests; both areas are considerably dead lately; 1v1s being this way since end of January.)

 

====

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#9
evilfusion

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Any concern will be spun as a witch-hunt, so I'll keep it brief here and expand in PM, or here w/ your permission later on.

 

1)

 

Having frequented both those sections fairly often, TCG/Debates, I'm not entirely sure what merits a new mod being needed in either. Would like elaboration on why this was needed 

 

2)

 

As much as I dislike a sprawling bureaucracy with multiple mods doing nothing (the old Order), it's equally dangerous in my eyes for a foot in the door expansionist model. You guys do NOT remove mods easily. ie. Roxas or the "Zai Trail period" deal. Adding additional powers to the mods w/ little to no public discourse is only going to deepen the swamp. 

 

3)

 

Zai is mod now, for better or worse- that seems to be the choice you have passed down to us. Don't you think, at least for the sake of PR, that there should be an external discussion about the expansion of his powers?

 

I'm a little disappointed how little PR is actually went on after Bree's departure & hope you guys will endeavor to at least now right this ship. What exactly where the Zai's qualifications for TCG/OCG & Debate mods. Is he a prolific YGO player? Does he know the community in Debates? How much has he interacted with either?

 

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice......???

 

Well, at least -I- won't spin it as a witch-hunt. *pause* Zai is male. It's a warlock-hunt. *shot*

 

I can't speak for debates. For TCG, it's only being suggested because I'm often busy during a sizeable chunk of the day on the days I work, and some of the now-resigned mods (Koko, Black, etc) used to watch the section in my absence due to frequenting it themselves, but I don't believe we have any current team members doing so. The idea was first suggested in the wake of the Babymon topics.

 

Is it a dire need? No.

 

You have a point with the dangers of both methods. We are still in the transition period of "Okay, we're reduced to X mods...what is everyone's role...and let's randomly throw out names for potential moderator additions because...why the fuck not?" (That's my interpretation, this is not what is literally happening...but it's not an exaggeration, either...).

 

We...admittedly like Zai's potential as a moderator. No, that's like...literally the only justification I've got at the moment as to why I'm not acknowledging your totally legit "failed as PR" point. But yes, before throwing mods to cover other sections, it should probably be brought up with the public, not for the sake of "PR", but because it could help avert haphazardly assigning mods to sections they don't specialize in.

 

I...don't think Zai is actually being considered as helping to cover TCG. I don't even recall if he ever goes in that section. I think he was being considered as either RP or helping with Debates.


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#10
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Well, at least -I- won't spin it as a witch-hunt. *pause* Zai is male. It's a warlock-hunt. *shot*

 

I can't speak for debates. For TCG, it's only being suggested because I'm often busy during a sizeable chunk of the day on the days I work, and some of the now-resigned mods (Koko, Black, etc) used to watch the section in my absence due to frequenting it themselves, but I don't believe we have any current team members doing so. The idea was first suggested in the wake of the Babymon topics.

 

Is it a dire need? No.

 

You have a point with the dangers of both methods. We are still in the transition period of "Okay, we're reduced to X mods...what is everyone's role...and let's randomly throw out names for potential moderator additions because...why the f*** not?" (That's my interpretation, this is not what is literally happening...but it's not an exaggeration, either...).

 

We...admittedly like Zai's potential as a moderator. No, that's like...literally the only justification I've got at the moment as to why I'm not acknowledging your totally legit "failed as PR" point. But yes, before throwing mods to cover other sections, it should probably be brought up with the public, not for the sake of "PR", but because it could help avert haphazardly assigning mods to sections they don't specialize in.

 

I...don't think Zai is actually being considered as helping to cover TCG. I don't even recall if he ever goes in that section. I think he was being considered as either RP or helping with Debates.

It was never primarily about potential or lack thereof (unless you count activity as potential). More that others were "skipped" due to the quirks of the selection process and then some distaste about his...job performance 

 

Again, if I had any idea that both Joseph and Beatrice where out, instead of being led on, I would have been quite eager to recommend someone like Tormey or Jesse. The frustration is that we, or atleast I, was denied of that chance.

 

TCG self moderates pretty well. When's the last time a mod had to step in TCG side? Yujii's Chaos Emperor topic? Bad ideas get shot down fast.

 

Debates is in a cool down right now for a multitude of reasons. I'd be quite interested to hear anyone else (@DAD) as to why we need a second mod there.

 

Don't have much to say on the PR front, since you've admitted that that should be done. Can't lynch a guy for admitting his mistakes. I hope that the further deliberations about doling out sections IS done in a public manner.

 

I don't RP, so no comment there. If that section's people want him, that's their problem and prerogative 


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#11
evilfusion

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For clarity, I mean that I don't really want to REMOVE Zai entirely, even if the end result is relocating him to a different section/role, because I think he will develop into a considerable asset.

 

But I also view the entire idea of a PR Mod to have been a stupid idea (although Birdie would have been phenomenal at it), SOOOO...you might want to take my view on that subject with a grain of salt. I feel the idea of the PR mod should have been similar to what Night said on the subject - the idea should have been someone approachable that GETS info from the members, moreso than a person who GIVES info to the members. Simple transparency shouldn't really have a designated slot, unless that slot is an addition to normal duties.

 

I don't even remember the last time I had to actively step in on TCG. And I've been the sole TCG mod since Pika retired. The subject only came up when it was casually wondered (but sparked by the Babymon topics) whether another mod would be useful, and I merely said I wasn't opposed to the idea. ...but if I'm being honest, it's because I barely need to mod the section in the first place.


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#12
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For clarity, I mean that I don't really want to REMOVE Zai entirely, even if the end result is relocating him to a different section/role, because I think he will develop into a considerable asset.

 

But I also view the entire idea of a PR Mod to have been a stupid idea (although Birdie would have been phenomenal at it), SOOOO...you might want to take my view on that subject with a grain of salt. I feel the idea of the PR mod should have been similar to what Night said on the subject - the idea should have been someone approachable that GETS info from the members, moreso than a person who GIVES info to the members. Simple transparency shouldn't really have a designated slot, unless that slot is an addition to normal duties.

 

I don't even remember the last time I had to actively step in on TCG. And I've been the sole TCG mod since Pika retired. The subject only came up when it was casually wondered (but sparked by the Babymon topics) whether another mod would be useful, and I merely said I wasn't opposed to the idea. ...but if I'm being honest, it's because I barely need to mod the section in the first place.

1) Don't have a comment on that first line. Partially because I've heard both side and haven't actually made up my mind on a position

 

2) Grain of salt taken- a Birdie clone could still be amazing

 

3) I actually have a problem with how people treated Babymon.

 

Not sure if this is the place to bring that up, but that sorta behavior, from people like Speedy, Black, and Joe, doesn't help. There was pretty much a public lynching of the guy for wanting Pot of Greed unabanned. Well I want Graceful back, and I'd likely get less of a pile on relative to baby. If a TCG mod is needed, its to stop the massacre of the newbies


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#13
evilfusion

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I wasn't too thrilled by it, either. I found him similar to you - someone with an alternate point of view and stubborn to ludicrous extents, but it didn't start going downhill until the troll accusation, and after that point, I suspected he started acting like a troll on purpose, but only AFTER people chewed him out and called him a troll. I didn't study all his posts/topics.

 

I was fine with him because I found the logic of why Pot of Greed is broken to be a very abstract concept, and difficult to articulate, which is why the logic everyone was using wasn't WORKING on him.


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#14
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why am i being brought up re:pot of greed

 

I only touched the topic to post theory-oh and clear up a misconception



#15
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why am i being brought up re:pot of greed

 

I only touched the topic to post theory-oh and clear up a misconception

I thought you were being fairly aggressive in Giga's status? If not, my apologies


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#16
evilfusion

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It almost literally doesn't matter who was, or was not, involved in that topic/situation. This topic isn't really about that and it was only mentioned in passing. I'm not hunting down the offenders. And if I was, I'd look inside the topic itself, rather than take someone's word on who was or was not involved.


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#17
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TCG always feels like a section that's like, chill most of the time unti occasions when it explodes especially lately with the dip in activity there.

 

However...most of the time issues and incidents erupting on TCG are really because of minor issues that didn't get handled in time before it explodes because YCM.

 

Iunno, from the time of Klav to the pot of greed thread of now, it's always like this. So at the very least in my opinion, even if you guys don't elect a new moderator for TCG, I believe the section still deserve more attention than it gets now. I mean yes most of the time it doesn't need moderation unlike General or Debates or CC, but with how the relative neglect was the reasoning behind most issues that passed the mod's attention, it's definitely something to consider.


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#18
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You were around when the discussion on TCG needing more supervision came up. While yeah, TCG is somewhat tamer compared to a while back, there should still be someone to keep tabs on the area (just make sure people act civil in discussions and don't spam).

 

I...don't think Zai is actually being considered as helping to cover TCG. I don't even recall if he ever goes in that section. I think he was being considered as either RP or helping with Debates.

 

Yeah, he isn't being considered as a permanent replacement for TCG; he's just lending temporary help until we get Byakuya or whomever promoted to take care of things. (I think you were PM'd about this when the idea came up.)

 

Last time I saw Zai in TCG was in the Lightsworn Judgment thread or something a good while back; don't believe he's posted more than that. You can ask Zai yourself on how current his knowledge is of the gamestate, but when he volunteered for it, he just said "I have enough knowledge of the game". At most, he'll probably be doing janitorial stuff (i.e. make sure people don't get attacked in discussions, spamming, etc.)

 

===

Already mentioned Zai with regards to RPs and Debates in a previous post.


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#19
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1. Get someone, anyone to watch over TCG and let the members know that the section is watched.

 

2. Constant updates on the plans posted on the News thread. 

 

3. Show progress on it. Yes I know I'm being hypocritical about this since the rules are stalled because of me, but hearing constant updates with progress is definitely going to show that yes, the mod team is actually reading the topics in the Moderator Forum and discussing things instead of seeing them as irrelevant to their interest for whatever reasons.

 

4. Generally faster decision making, please. Maybe not on the mod stuffs yet, but sooner or later you really going to need to decide on whether the team really need a new member or not. And on other things too. Am not really sure about how incidents or issues are dealt with now, but hopefully it doesn't involve days-long discussions while ignoring to strike while the iron's hot regarding punishments. Overly delayed light punishments are laughably ineffective.

 

5. More involvement in the community at wide, perhaps even to the super mods. Yes, I get that Super Mods are meant more to supervise and regulate the moderators on the team in a way and is generally less needed to be active, but having good perception on what is happening on the community would perhaps make it more reassuring for the team and the memberbase alike.

 

6. Mods should generally have more autonomy imo. I agree on the notion that the moderator team is a team for a reason and big decisions should be done with everyone discussing it, but right now (although things might have changed lately) I believe that mods should be allowed for more autonomy in doing their job. I mean, by accepting a mod on the team, that already means that you guys had trusted said mod to do their job. 

If unfair punishment would be a worry, then a fix in the rulebook would do things to deal with that issue.

 

Kinda more of a stream of consciousness list than anything concrete atm, just feeling like saying some things that I wanted to say. 


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#20
Zaiduck

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Hoooo boy, there's a lot to respond to. I haven't been on YCM-proper much in the last few days, so I apologize for not seeing the discussion sooner.

Full responses to everything are forthcoming, I just wanna hop in the shower and move my laundry first.

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