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THE SUBMISSION BOX [Moderator Transparency Discussion Thread]


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#81
Kazooie

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Great post Birdie, but I feel I should mention that PR appointment wasn't really democratic. People have been saying PR election a lot in here and mods made it preeetty clear it was not such.

 

Fair enough. It's probably the closest thing you'll get to a democratic appointment overall on a site like this, but that isn't wrong at all. I think people were a little harsh when the PR stuff happened, still, but the concerns weren't unfounded and you certainly aren't wrong about it not being democratic. I would've used semi-democracy, but that wasn't entirely accurate either.



#82
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I'd also like to point out that many of these posts were me and Dad discussing something only tangibly related and resolved.

 

At the moment there's like, 2 people talking about things they're concerned with and it's not going any farther than here...which is a submission box for discussion about mod stuff.


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#83
Yui

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Great post Birdie, but I feel I should mention that PR appointment wasn't really democratic. People have been saying PR election a lot in here and mods made it preeetty clear it was not such.

To be perfectly blunt, if it wasn't democratic, Zai wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the job. He basically doesn't exist outside of RP, so the only people that were able to vouch for him from within the mod team were Aix and Nai, who were stepping down at the time, and Dad, who I don't think Zai even crossed his mind as a possibility. I don't recall who else was nominated besides yourself and Birdie (who won and probably would have been the only PR mod if this wasn't democratic), but the support Zai got compared to candidates like Birdie or me was more or less not there. In fact, if I recall correctly, Zai only got the PR spot because I was discredited from the election and they just sorta scooped him up.

 

(long post)

It may be a bit late for it now, but I'd be fine with everyone - mod and member alike - sitting down and discussing the necessity or lack thereof behind a General mod, and who everyone thinks would be best-suited for the job if it's determined that we really need one with the state of the section. But, if we go that route, I'd prefer we not elect the new mod; it should be done entirely by the mod team, but taking into account what this member or that one has to say about different potential mods-to-be. The last election was a shitshow and a half, and we don't really need a repeat of that mess =w=;


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#84
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I'm not advocating for an actual election, because dear god no, but the shitshow wasn't the result of people having a say in the matter, rather it was quite the opposite.

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#85
Hi I'm Dad

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I'm not advocating for an actual election, because dear god no, but the shitshow wasn't the result of people having a say in the matter, rather it was quite the opposite.

I disagree.  With me stepping down, and waves being rippled, there's no time like now to try and get the shit right the second fucking time.  Since I'm leaving, I encourage it.  We should create a new thread, take limited nominations, and follow it with a poll after.  Go with the result of the poll.

 

No time like the present to stick your leg in the water.  Not your toe.  Not your foot.  Get in that shit.  Fucking do it.  There's no reason not to.


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#86
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I disagree.  With me stepping down, and waves being rippled, there's no time like now to try and get the shit right the second fucking time.  Since I'm leaving, I encourage it.  We should create a new thread, take limited nominations, and follow it with a poll after.  Go with the result of the poll.
 
No time like the present to stick your leg in the water.  Not your toe.  Not your foot.  Get in that shit.  Fucking do it.  There's no reason not to.

There are lots of reasons not to. This is a horrible idea.

And this is coming from the person who received about as much support as Birdie in the thread back in January. Public support does not a mod make.

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#87
Hi I'm Dad

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There are lots of reasons not to. This is a horrible idea.

And this is coming from the person who received about as much support as Birdie in the thread back in January. Public support does not a mod make.

 

This hesitation won't get reasonable and publicly supported good candidates into the Mod team.  It takes management, not panic, to get it done.  Either now, or in the future, another public election will happen.  I advise not pussyfooting around with it and diving in.  Fix the system, and do it how ya'll wanted the first time.

 

That being said, whatchu worried bout?


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#88
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I am pretty sure you are shitposting by now, but you are a mod, so the fuck am I gonna do about it.

Have you ever heard of YMB? Making the winner a mod doesn't make it any better.

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#89
Hi I'm Dad

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I am pretty sure you are shitposting by now, but you are a mod, so the fuck am I gonna do about it.

Have you ever heard of YMB? Making the winner a mod doesn't make it any better.

 

No.  I'm 100% serious.  That's why I said it needs fucking management.  The first time, it was taken out of the members hands after nominations were given.  Then a mod was chosen based on who was presented by the member base.  I'm trying to give you the election the way it should've been.  In your hands.  Managed by the staff, but decided, like an elected official, by the people.

 

Why the fuck does that have to be a fucking shit post?  Cuz you disagree with it?  Me being a mod don't have shit to do with it.  This is my opinion.  I ain't speaking for no fucking body else.  I'm tryna encourage you to speak up.  But if it's just a shitpost, then whatever guy.


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#90
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There is a midway between promoting someone who received little to no public support, and having it just be a vote.

Direct votes bring with them a whole mess of issues, ranging from potential collusion to just unneeded drama.

I thought it was a shitpost because you said pussyfooting, not gonna lie

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#91
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That's why I brought up management bruh.  How do you prevent collusion?  Reward people for coming forwards with bogus bullshit.  And let people voice--in the thread--why they feel X makes a better mod over Y.  And be specific with the shit.  Not "oh they're really nice" cuz that don't mean shit.  What do they offer to the section and now, and what can they bring as a moderator.  What flaws would you like to see touched on.  All that shit.  And it should be multiple polls, real shit.  Cuz one big poll is sloppy.

 

I think limiting it to four candidates and two polls would make things smooth as fuck.


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#92
Zaiduck

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I'll be a little more formal and more clear this time then, since i'm not in bed and not hung over.

Saying "oops" was me being cute. I straight up forgot to make any kind of formal announcement saying that we were promoting a replacement for dad, and furthermore I think I even forgot to tell the mod team that I had planned on doing so. Which put bluntly is a huge goof on my part since thats literally my job. I have no excuse for that, I just haven't been on YCM or thinking about it as much as I should be lately. So let me formally apologize for any confusion that came out of me failing to do that. Duck dun fucked up, and it caused a lot of problems. Lo siento, sajnálom, I am sorry.

As for the rest of my post, I spoilered and prefaced it for a reason. Its me articulating (poorly I might add. Hangover's a bitch) a gripe I've had since way before I became a moderator. Its not my overall attitude toward the userbase, and I even tried to explain that within by pointing out that I was really supportive of all of the recent instances of users bringing their concerns to me and/or the mod team when there was totally reason to.

In hindsight its probably not something I should have articulated this morning (i'm batting 1000 today it looks like). The conversation at hand isn't something that warrants it, and I made myself look like an asshole by bringing it up at all. All I was really trying to say was that it'd be nice if the site could chill a little and wait for problems with what we do to actually become problems worth fixing. Let our actions speak for themselves in cases like this.

Annnnyyyyyyway, if you'll allow me to segue out of my amazing job performance for a moment (and for the rest of the conversation would be nice. I think it would better serve both what we're talking about as well as any problems people have with me if we went and talked about them after Yui's settled in and this has all been handled. Staying on topic and such) I think holding an actual direct election for a moderator is a terrible idea for a number of reasons that I will refrain from articulating both for the sake of this post's brevity and because they've possibly already been said. Having user input is great and all, but its the kind of decision that can really only be made fairly by staff.

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#93
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Discussing how well you are doing doesn't really get in the way of Yui getting settled, it's pretty clear he had no issue with it.

I'm not saying you are trying to sweep this under the rug, I legitimately don't think that is your intent, but that is the effect. These things are going to need to be discussed sooner or later, and sooner is definitely better than later.

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#94
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Major decisions and events should be discussed as they occur. They are, y'know, major. Why would major things be the thing you wait and see, instead of minor things that may or may not occur?

 

If there are concerns of any sort in a case like this, they should be brought up immediately. Were people to wait, it would become "why didn't you say something sooner?".

 

I feel like there should have been an announcement of a successor, as has been established, and there should have been some discourse started by the team as yto Yui and why he was chosen. The memberbase shouldn't have to ask for explanations for a major decision.

 

No one is even calling this a problem, and no one is trying to cause drama with this.

 

Suggesting that people, who are amicably asking for the explanation that was expected, should simply wait until they're proven right/wrong doesn't really do PR justice.

 

Not to mention that this happens with literally any major event. New presidential election? New game trailer? New music album? Major things are discussed as they happen, not once they've settled in for a while and taken a foothold.

 

The last line also bothers me, because it's more "you're not a mod, so what do you matter". The language used suggests that member input is take it or leave it, and that only the team matters in the end. The team is here to moderate the site. I disagree with an election, as well, but that last point is not well articulated.


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