ITT: OPT, during either MP, you can activate 1 Normal Trap from your hand as an SS1

[Darj]

This is an idea I have had for a while.

As some of you may know, there are a bunch of underused Trap Cards out there that are quite solid, but are only held back by their need of waiting 1 turn, and could very well have been Normal or Quick-Play Spells without breaking too many things. To name a few, "Chaos Infinity" and "Gleipnir, Fetters of Fenrir", "Waterfall of Dragon Souls", etc.

So, in this topic, the following rule is issued:

Once per turn, during either of their Main Phases, the turn player can activate 1 Normal Trap Card from their hand, with an Spell Speed of 1.

 

This rule change is intended to give those cards a chance, as well as making Normal Traps a bit better overall.

Basically, the game will get a built-in "Temple of Kings" effect that only applies on Normal Traps, but cannot be used to activate the Trap Card in response to the activation of a card or effect. It effectively lets you play a Normal Trap as a Normal Spell, but only 1 per turn. I like to think of it as the Normal Summon: normally you only have 1 per turn, and it's part of the game rules. Also, if you Set that Normal Trap first, then you won't be able to activate it with this rule. This is relevant for effects that Set Normal Traps directly the Graveyard, Deck, etc.

By the way, Temple of Kings would retain a niche by enabling you to activate an additional Trap Card from your hand, and of any type (Continuous, etc.).

 

I'm not sure how Trap like Bottomless Trap Hole and Torrential Tribute would work when the opponent Summons a monster during your Main Phase, though, because they are responding to a Summon, not to the activation of a card/effect. I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to be activated, in the same way you can't activate, let's say, Smashing Grounds in response to a Summon.

 

So, discuss how this change would impact the game. Of course, those underused Traps would become suddenly good and potentially gain relevance, but also Normal Traps that are already strong, as well as Normal-Trap-heavy decks, would gain a major boost too, and that's where it could become a problem. For example, Paleozoics would become so much better. Heck, even Jar of Greed would become the new Upstart Goblin, albeit with an indirect hard OPT due to the ruling.

[Arimetal]

Pot of Reckless Greed

[VCR_CAT]

Pot of Reckless Greed

 

Exactly.

 

 

Traps are designed around the fact that you can't activate them right away. Now, ignoring the fact that traps (and hand-traps for that matter) are pretty dang anti-fun for the game and poorly designed, making them all handtraps that you can do OPT is pretty dang stupid. Yeah yeah "But what about these cards for MEKLORDS and NORDICS". Yeah, some archetypes are gonna be bad, that's the order of things.

 

Too many cards become utterly stupid, even if you can't chain them to specific effects. A lot of these cards are time-gated for a reason, and this sort of rule change does nothing healthy for the game.

[Sleepy]

Reckless Greed would be more of an issue the faster games become, in a game where you can strive for an OTK consistently it doesn't sound like a very healthy thing to do.

Though if duels lasted longer that wouldn't be as much of an issue looking at how you'd get Reckless Greed's drawback kick in.

 

Reckless Greed would be a little bit less of an issue if the rule was once per duel because you'd be trapped between doing it ASAP and not drawing dead extras that'll work as a regular Reckless Greed from there on. How much would this mitigate things? It'd probably still not be as huge as Pot of Desires because Reckless Greed's drawback still kind of matters IMO, while Desires is a straight up +1 even at the risk of mass banishing the wrong cards. It is up for debate though.

 

I can see Spirits loving that Legacy of Yata, or Jar Turtle enjoying that Jar of Greed. Wouldn't say those are problematic uses tbh.

It is something I could see Konami trying out, but not as a set rule as we are having a bit too many OPT inherent abilities in the game (Normal Summon, Pendulum Summon, position changing/attacking, and other things that require keeping tabs on that might eventually be enough to overwhelm people because of how complicated things seem).

Instead I can see Konami trying it out as something like a duelist's ability from Duel Links (it is kind of like how Deck Masters work).

[Darj]

Yeah, Reckless Greed would be stronger, but I don't think it would be that problematic. It pretty much becomes a Pot of Desires that trades the cost of 1/4~1/6 of your deck, which in most cases doesn't matter due to that argument of "cards in the deck are inaccessible anyway", for 2 Draw Phase draws, quite the big gamble you are taking there IMO: if you don't draw into strong cards or big plays with Reckless Greed, or if your board is broken afterwards, you could very well lose the duel right there. And even then, I would say the rule makes Reckless Greed actually good and splashable, instead of the niche-ish Trap that it currently is. Not to mention that to this day Desires has yet to be put in any banlist. Not saying Desires is entirely fair, but my point is that Konami has shown to keep some power cards around and be unfair to keep the game (and sales) going; in other words, the game isn't about health and fairness anymore, and looking back, I don't think it ever was. Now, I'm not saying that everything should be outright thrown out of the window because "Konami does it", but with a rule like this, I want to explore and discuss possible changes that spice the game up and preferably make it more enjoyable. I mean, there are so many Normal Traps out there nobody plays due to that 1-turn delay.

 

I could tell already some cards would become too good with the rule, like the Waterfall I mentioned in the OP that would pretty much act as a non-Level-restricted ROTA/Trade-in for Wyrms, which are currently relevant due to True Draco/Kings, but my question wasn't about health, since giving the ability of activating a Normal Trap during your turn is bound to enable all sorts of things, but more about impact: said Traps would get stronger yes, but the decks and game are also aggressive and strong too, so the question is more on the lines of "could the game handle it?"

[Dova]

I thought that in order to activate a card or effect during your opponent's turn, it had to have a Spell Speed of 2. Does a Spell Speed of 1 mean you can only activate it if your opponent passes priority (such as end MP) or am I missing something again?

[Darj]

I thought that in order to activate a card or effect during your opponent's turn, it had to have a Spell Speed of 2. Does a Spell Speed of 1 mean you can only activate it if your opponent passes priority (such as end MP) or am I missing something again?

 

Putting it simply, once per turn you would be able to play 1 Normal Trap from the hand as if it was a Normal Spell, and thus Spell Speed 1. Yeah, normally they are Spell Speed 2 and do require the opponent to pass priority, but the rule allows you to make an exception in this case.

[Dova]

Putting it simply, once per turn you would be able to play 1 Normal Trap from the hand as if it was a Normal Spell, and thus Spell Speed 1. Yeah, normally they are Spell Speed 2 and do require the opponent to pass priority, but the rule allows you to make an exception in this case.

 

Sorry, I was missing something. I thought it was the turn player's opponent who could activate it.

 

Could the game handle it? If a change is made to the game, it will survive and adjust. But will it be the same? No. I feel the niche of cards that need buffing is too small for this, especially with a selection of 840 cards. Mind Crush is another potential card to use, especially if your deck has no other traps. Dimensional Barrier as an opening for your plays, and new cards like Trickstar Reincarnation and Guidance would have benefits. Heck, you don't need to even only run those traps, as you could choose which one you could activate. Also Burn decks and the like.

 

Also, a personal preference. I feel activation traps on your turn (at least, non-counter traps) defeats the point of them. I mean, you literally set traps for your opponent, and overriding them...yeah.

[Darj]

Sorry, I was missing something. I thought it was the turn player's opponent who could activate it.

 

Could the game handle it? If a change is made to the game, it will survive and adjust. But will it be the same? No. I feel the niche of cards that need buffing is too small for this, especially with a selection of 840 cards. Mind Crush is another potential card to use, especially if your deck has no other traps. Dimensional Barrier as an opening for your plays, and new cards like Trickstar Reincarnation and Guidance would have benefits. Heck, you don't need to even only run those traps, as you could choose which one you could activate. Also Burn decks and the like.

 

Also, a personal preference. I feel activation traps on your turn (at least, non-counter traps) defeats the point of them. I mean, you literally set traps for your opponent, and overriding them...yeah.

 

Isn't Mind Crush a Trap you would still prefer to play during the opponent's turn to disrupt a search? Otherwise it's risky if you don't know any card in your opponent's hand, and activating it during your turn after the opponent performed the search may be too late to stop his/her plays.

As for Reincarnation and Guidance, they become an archetype Disturbance Strategy+Reborn and weaker Advanced Heraldry Art respectively; I don't think they would be that broken considering the current power and state of the game. And I don't really see Burn decks getting too far with the ability of activating a burn Normal Trap OPT, since they generally rely on chain links to stay alive, and they wouldn't be able to chain the rest of the cards on the Normal Trap they activate from hand unless they were previously Set.

But yes, there are indeed other Normal Traps that would have a field day with this. Cards like Void Feast and Gottom's E-Call come to mind.

 

Still, the thing is that some Normal Traps are not so much to disrupt the opponent, but are more like support cards intended to be balanced, or rather held back, by the Normal Trap status; but if you were to remove that limit... IDK, IMO the game could get interesting; the power level would rise for sure, but that's part of making things exciting. Perhaps the idea could work as a custom format or something and check how crazy things actually get.

[notcleverusername]

Mind Crush and any disruptive Trap don't care or need about this, as the difference between being Set and being activated in your hand is basically only limited to if your opponent opened their removal at the same time you opened your Trap.

Although, being able to have the same effect on the opponent's turn could increase the value of battle Traps, assuming those aren't disqualified by the same reasons as Bottomless/Torrential in your hypothetical.

 

The real value is in cards like Cradle of the Destruction Swordsmaster or The Beginning, which go from really good but slow support for bad decks to potential splashable engine drivers.

 

Reckless Greed is of course an obvious call, and Jar of Greed/Legacy of Yata-Garasu could be interesting as Upstart-likes that peeps wouldn't max out on due to problems of seeing multiples. Being able to Call of the Haunted/Return from the Frontlines on your turn sounds quite potent as well.

 

I don't personally share Cat's views that Traps are "bad for the game", but it is true that many Traps are balanced around their mechanic. It's somewhat amusing, but this wouldn't actually be that bad if Traps were mostly disruptive, but the main issue is that for the most part the rule would essentially be used to play advantage Traps as better Normal Spells instead.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I think this idea only makes a lick of sense if you can only do it on your own turn.

 

Having both players able to play spell speed 1 effects at the same time actually makes no sense, and basically makes the shred of priority rules the game retains collapse in upon themselves.

 

As for balance, I legitimately doubt "pot of reckless greed" would break the game. It would be strong, yeah, but considering effects like oasis, sinister shadow games (which suddenly becomes insane, by the way), etc, it is far from the only option, and the downside is far from meaningless.

the fact that traps (and hand-traps for that matter) are pretty dang anti-fun for the game and poorly designed

sorry but what..? Since when is disruptive play and delayed return on investment poor design

[Darj]

I think this idea only makes a lick of sense if you can only do it on your own turn.

 

Having both players able to play spell speed 1 effects at the same time actually makes no sense, and basically makes the shred of priority rules the game retains collapse in upon themselves.

 

It's indeed during your own turn, or rather, the player's turn. I'm aware that dropping Spell Speed 1 cards during the opponent's turn would me messy mechanic-wise.

[VCR_CAT]

sorry but what..? Since when is disruptive play and delayed return on investment poor design

 

The disruption is more towards what makes them pretty bad for the game. When the game's in its early stages and what even the best traps do is fairly limited, traps work as a design. You know what to play around, and how to play around it, and the strategy comes in what to do in the face of them.

 

The way the game is now, though? Traps are sheet for it, and extremely anti-fun. We get crap like Solemn Strike and Dimension Barrier that effectively shut down an entire turn for a deck. In what way is that fun? Hand traps are even worse for that regard, because at the least normal traps have the tell of being set so you know there's something. Hand traps you really can't expect them. If they have cards in their hand and you have no way of knowing what they are, it's just all you can do is hope for the best; there's no playing around them. All this just ends up being punishing a player for just... playing. How is that good design?

 

I mean, seriously, hand traps. I don't think I've ever heard a non-PSYFrame player have a good word for that deck, especially when they've played against it.

 

Like, it's different for monsters on the field or in the grave; effects that are common knowledge, and when those aren't in great supply it becomes something that you can have strategies for how to deal with, and then that works for both players; one for knowing how to play around a threat, and the other for predicting how they're going to play around it and how to best stop that avenue. Traps don't offer that, because the best you can do is just order your plays from least-crucial to most-crucial and hope that, if they have the disruption, they pop it prematurely and leave you open to go for the more crucial ones.

 

And I stand by this idea of "OPT play a trap from hand lol now they're spells" is honestly just not going to offer anything good for the game. A lot of this just feels like putting the blinders on for bad themes like Meklords and Nordics, and ignoring how else it's going to be used. I mean, it'd be pretty nifty to drop a True King's Return from the hand immediately; some pretty nice play extensions huh. By the way I don't mean that in a "That'd be great for the game" kinda way. A lot of this stuff is designed to be time-gated, and removing that time gate isn't going to do a lot of good.

 

As for what Nick was saying; that remains true for cantrip traps like Mind Crush that when you drop it only really matters whether you know what they have or not. Other traps like Return to the Frontlines just get a whole lot better because now the chance of you being forced to activate that an inappropriate time is effectively removed. And now, removal you draw into isn't the only way the way for these cards to be removed.

 

I honestly just fail to see how this idea is going to be good for the game as a whole. Traps as a whole aren't so bad that they "NEED" some kinda big help like this, and there's a lot more to decks with trap RotA's that make them bad beyond not having a proper RotA.

[Darj]

Quick reminder that True King's Return is a Continuous Trap though, so you wouldn't be able to play it from the hand with the rule. As for Return of Frontlines, it becomes a slightly worse Monster Reborn, that isn't played in OCG anymore so... yeah I doubt it would become an issue.

It seems you hold on my examples of Chaos Infinity and Gleipnir to support your stance, but really, those were just my sources of inspiration for the idea, but I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware they are far from being the most concerning Traps after the rule.

[Kaiji]

Chain Material is prob the one that raises the most eyebrows (at least 3 if you have 3rd eye technology) since you'd be removing 1 aspect preventing it from making significant impact

 

Thankfully its still like 9:3 (field spell + chain material ratio) when most 2 card combo want a 6:6 at least (iirc you barely reach above 50% chance of combo). Chain Material come with significant main deck requirement like 4 vanillas gr0ss, tho Gustav Max easier to summon thanks to El Shaddoll Shekhinaga having less strenuous condition (any earth and itself

[Darj]

Chain Material is prob the one that raises the most eyebrows (at least 3 if you have 3rd eye technology) since you'd be removing 1 aspect preventing it from making significant impact

 

Thankfully its still like 9:3 (field spell + chain material ratio) when most 2 card combo want a 6:6 at least (iirc you barely reach above 50% chance of combo). Chain Material come with significant main deck requirement like 4 vanillas gr0ss, tho Gustav Max easier to summon thanks to El Shaddoll Shekhinaga having less strenuous condition (any earth and itself )

 

meme it up wit predaplant to search fusion gate midway and zoo combo to draw a bunch

 

Kinda going off-topic but regarding this, I dare to say that Fusion Gate is the problem there, because it's what enables the repeated Fusion Summons, plus the searchability it gets from Predaplant engine, Gate Zero, etc.

 

Now, under this rule, such Fusion Gate + Chain Material OTK/FTKs would simply become 1 turn faster, but the consistency issues remain. I doubt that would be enough for them to dominate the meta.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Chain material is a gross card anyway, funk it.

 

Fiend Griefing is another card that gets really neat. Though it doesn't act as grave disruption nearly as well, it can just be a foolish when it needs to.

[notcleverusername]

Oyea totes forgot about Chain Material, w/e else you wanna say that's 100% a problem card under ability to activate t1

Additional note: Ability to play Geargiagear as Normal Spell p sick and still related to my point that main issue is that there are enough advantage Traps out there, many of which were balanced around being Traps, that allowing them to be activated without Setting could easily break quite a few of them.

 

As far as it goes disruptive backrow almost totally unrelated to this discussion anyways given that most of it is triggers which are disqualified in that hypothetical addendum, non-Normal Traps, and/or things that you don't normally want to use on your turn anyways (DBarrier yourself cute for outing Zoodiacs I guess) so I don't think Cat's issues with Traps on that specific facet matter anyways

Ofc the issues of time gate suddenly not existing still exist, and have been main issue on the whole anyways

 

It's indeed during your own turn, or rather, the player's turn. I'm aware that dropping Spell Speed 1 cards during the opponent's turn would me messy mechanic-wise.

"During either MP" ????

I guess you meant during either MP1 or 2 but it's p common usage to have it mean during either player's turn

[Dova]

"During either MP" ????

I guess you meant during either MP1 or 2 but it's p common usage to have it mean during either player's turn

"the turn player"

 

I misread it too the first time.

[Darj]

Yeah, I apologize for that. I tried to write the ruling as formal as possible and using card text words, but ended up making it misleading xD