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Hi guys,

 

I just wanted to comment on the status of the YGO card game so far (at least since lats time I had time to play it).

 

It's gotten rather... lackluster, as all the potentially "good" decks are always really hard to get b/c high prices and things. Not only that but the decks all seem to build themselves and tend to be broken. There's no real variation or experimenting in the decks. They all seem to the the same, clones of one another, and Konami never really does much to keep this in check (at least not in the TCG.) I've been moving towards quitting the game as it's gotten rather stale, and it all seems to be the same old pool of decks with the same old cards and the same old strategy over and over and over again... It get monotonous after a while.

 

(And this is all not mentioning my opinion that I personally denounce some of the tropes that Konami has been putting into some of their cards and/or card types, some in OCG (ex. darklords, infernoids, etc. b/c a certain name used in both of those) and some in TCG (nurse reficule, invoked, etc. these are more subtle but equally bad). This has been another thing that has motivated me to move towards quitting the game)

 

Anyway people, what are your thoughts on the state of YGO as it is today? Discuss, but please keep it civil.

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Saying all decks are the same is just wrong. The game has a stupid amount of variety in design. Your complaint about this is absolutely invalid.

 

The best decks have always been more expensive. Have been for about a decade, and probably longer. That is how it works for all TCGs. It's part of the nature of the hobby.

 

OH NO A GAME THAT HAS LITERALLY ALWAYS HAD OCCASIONAL DEMONIC SUBTHEMES HAS OCCASIONAL DEMONIC SUBTHEMES! NOW THEY ARE ENCOURAGING DEVIL WORSHIP! WHAT'S NEXT? TEEN PREGNANCY???

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Saying all decks are the same is just wrong. The game has a stupid amount of variety in design. Your complaint about this is absolutely invalid.

What I meant was that there are no decks often used besides the current meta or tier [blank], so you end up running into the same decks over and over again. BRB, editing OP for clarification.

 

The best decks have always been more expensive. Have been for about a decade, and probably longer. That is how it works for all TCGs. It's part of the nature of the hobby.

Yes, of course, but when some cards reach near 50$ or higher, that can be an issue for some.

 

OH NO A GAME THAT HAS LITERALLY ALWAYS HAD OCCASIONAL DEMONIC SUBTHEMES(1) HAS OCCASIONAL DEMONIC SUBTHEMES! NOW THEY ARE ENCOURAGING DEVIL WORSHIP!(2) WHAT'S NEXT? TEEN PREGNANCY???(3)
  1. What examples of such subthemes occuring earlier are there? This context of it "literally always" being there, which I had not thought of before this comment, gives me even more reason to quit the game, in my opinion.
  2. I never said that or meant to imply anything of the sort, as even though I have ran into the subthemes, I never saw any instances of Konami egging on or encouraging satanism, and thus I will not charge them of doing so, for I find it highly deplorable to make false accusations of that manner.
  3. I never said that either, and I do not understand why you are exaggerating my comments. 
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What I meant was that there are no decks often used besides the current meta or tier [blank], so you end up running into the same decks over and over again. BRB, editing OP for clarification.

So your complaint is that people use meta decks. First off, not everyone does. Tons of people play casually. Second off, they always have. The game has always had a metagame. This one is pretty diverse. Not the most diverse, but not really cancerous at all. Third off, even among the best decks, there is so much variety. If you don't want to play with and against the metagame, that's fine. You do you, pal. But don't complain about sheet that just isn't true.

Yes, of course, but when some cards reach near 50$ or higher, that can be an issue for some.

It's just the way it is. Konami pushes rarities to encourage packs to sell, but so do Wizards of the Coast and The Pokemon Company. Besides, if you are avoiding meta decks, prices like this shouldn't be a problem you are encountering.

 

  • What examples of such subthemes occuring earlier are there? This context of it "literally always" being there give me even more reason to quit the game, in my opinion.
  • I never said that or meant to imply anything of the sort, as even though I have ran into the subthemes, I never saw any instances of Konami egging on or encouraging satanism, and thus I will not charge them of doing so, for I find it highly deplorable to make false accusations of that manner.
  • I never said that either, and I do not understand why you are exaggerating my comments.
As for the occult early on in the game, LOB contains Reaper of the Cards as well as Dark Magician. For demons... You realize fiend is an attribute, right?

 

The rest was hyperbole. I assumed that was clear.

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Trying to quote like you did but everything got condensed into one paragraph so I'm having to sort it out.

So your complaint is that people use meta decks. First off, not everyone does. Tons of people play casually. Second off, they always have. The game has always had a metagame. This one is pretty diverse. Not the most diverse, but not really cancerous at all. Third off, even among the best decks, there is so much variety. If you don't want to play with and against the metagame, that's fine. You do you, pal. But don't complain about s*** that just isn't true

I mean, I was complaining that people only use meta decks, at least at locals, where most of my YGO experience has been at, so my complaints were mainly based off that perspective. Sorry about the confusion.

 

It's just the way it is. Konami pushes rarities to encourage packs to sell, but so do Wizards of the Coast and The Pokemon Company. Besides, if you are avoiding meta decks, prices like this shouldn't be a problem you are encountering.

Well, I think I forgot to mention that the high-priced cards are often the cards most crucial to running the deck(s) efficiently. Again, sorry for the confusion.

 

As for the occult early on in the game, LOB contains Reaper of the Cards as well as Dark Magician. For demons... You realize fiend is an attribute, right?

The rest was hyperbole. I assumed that was clear.

I haven't heard of occult-ing (which I am not sure if you are referring specifically to satanism or to just plain superstitious stuff in general) in YGO or of LOB. As for the fiend-types I thought that was something different. (Note to self: quit the game ASAP, and maybe the forum too b/c YGO connections)

 

I understood the rest was hyperbole. I just didn't understand the need for said hyperbole to be used there.

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For the record, if you'd note, many Structure Deck Rs have been designed to be both cheap and competitive. I suppose this doesn't help your "prepackaged" gripe but it should help with the price.

 

Re: Demons There's been some other, somewhat explicit examples besides those 2op has brought up. I believe Belial - Marquis of Darkness was a notable one, and Malefics were all called "Sin" in OCG. There's also Summoned Skull.

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My complaints aren't about """Deck Variety""" or card-cost. Both of those have remained constant throughout the game since it started taking itself more seriously (with the exception of variety which grew as the game got more cards). The deal with the meta game has not changed for a very, very long time. There will always be decks that are better and more suited for tournament play, and it's pretty pointless to complain about that. A deck's quality doesn't stop you from playing what you want, it just determines what you're going to win a tournament against, or what lets you beat most rando's with. And if you're playing against rando's online, you still don't really have an excuse to complain about it because you chose to play against random decks and players; that includes those that are better than you. If you don't like the meta/stronger decks, then just play with your friends; stop playing against rando's and stop joining tournaments expecting to win if you hate the decks that are considered best in a given time.

 

I also won't complain about "archetypes" and """pre-built decks with no """"""""""creativity"""""""""""""""". The game's opened a lot of doors for engines to be combined and work together; there's still just as much, if not more, ingenuity in deck-building than before.

 

My complaint, for once, is about speed. And like, I usually don't complain about this because I've found that the game can be fun if you just embrace its evolution and roll with the changes. I stopped expecting the game to remain the same a long time ago, and have enjoyed the game much more because of that. But, the speed of the game did reach a point that it DID surpass my enjoyment of the game a bit. I'm just not a fan of these go-first-or-lose matches, or how so many decks and play-styles have been focused on setting up huge soft-lock fields on the first turn and if you can't break it gg. Of course, just like what I talk about above like "don't complain about the meta game", I can just... not play with those decks and play with friends. But I still have quite a bit of interest in the higher levels of play, and busting into that one way or another is one of many ways to enjoy the game.

 

Best I can do, really, is that with future sets and banlists the game reigns itself back in a bit. I'm not really talking about limiting Extra-Deck spam or how Links will slow the game (HA they won't). It's more about what the end-goal of the fields are, and how annoyingly prevalent quick-play disruption is. I dunno, it's possible I'm just looking back at the Shaddoll/Nekroz/Burning Abyss days with rose-tinted glasses, but the game's grown stale for me for a bit because of how fast and non-enjoyable the games have become. Between a lot of the decks that Konami's been designing for Series 10 it seems like it's moving in that direction of reigning things back, with how they play; but it remains to be seen how they plan to make those decks the ones that people will play more than the decks we already have.

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Wait, you unironically have a problem with the depiction of demons???

 

What are you, some sort of puritan/WBC member?

My concern is that they keep on doing it over and over again, sometimes attributing it to the protagonists in the shows. (Ex. Yugi, a protagonist or "good guy", using Dark Magician, which was singled out by another user.) Also IDK what you mean by puritans and the WBC.

 

Can we get back onto the topic of the card game itself, like VCR did, guys? Because this thread is starting to derail, so it seems to me.

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it's not derailing if it's a point you brought up in the OP

 

and i mean, Jack Atlas takes "the devil" and fuses it with RDA.

 

Hell, RDA represents the funking devil. And Stardust represents a woman from the Book of Revelations.

 

it's nothing new

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it's not derailing if it's a point you brought up in the OP

I used the word 'derailing' because that was all people were talking about (except for VCR and such) even though there was more to the OP.

 

[the rest of the post]

I've decided to hasten my move to full quitting because of the new revelations (no pun intended at all) of earlier use of the tropes, posted by the other users.  (Note: I haven't watched the shows so I wouldn't be aware of any potentially-direct references like the Jack Atlas one.)

 

As for the context of the game itself, I think VCR brings up a very good point about the speed of the game that I had forgotten when I wrote the OP. Thanks, VCR, for the contribution to the discussion.

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The show is secular. It isn't encouraging people to be evil, or amoral, or anything like that, because it references demons and angels (biblical or otherwise) as fictional concepts. The characters aren't contracting with the devil. They are using things inspired by biblical demonism. Fiction often explores these ideas of darkness, because it appeals to an audience, whereas real-life culture often shuns the concepts.

 

If you don't want to associate yourself with the game because you personally believe it contradicts your religion, that is your own decision to make. That is how religion is best looked at. Believe what you choose to, and behave how you think aligns with your beliefs best. Don't try to determine whether something like a game is objectively evil or amoral, because these are subjective measures.

 

As for the game itself, VCR did something very different from what you are doing. He was able to state what he disagrees with in the game, but in doing so didn't say what he wanted was objectively correct, nor did he assume any higher ground. I repped him because he did what basically nobody here is capable of: respectfully disagreeing.

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The show is secular. It isn't encouraging people to be evil, or amoral, or anything like that, because it references demons and angels (biblical or otherwise) as fictional concepts. The characters aren't contracting with the devil. (1)They are using things inspired by biblical demonism. Fiction often explores these ideas of darkness, because it appeals to an audience, whereas real-life culture often shuns the concepts.(2)

 

If you don't want to associate yourself with the game because you personally believe it contradicts your religion, that is your own decision to make. That is how religion is best looked at. Believe what you choose to, and behave how you think aligns with your beliefs best.(3) Don't try to determine whether something like a game is objectively evil or amoral, because these are subjective measures.(4)

 

As for the game itself, VCR did something very different from what you are doing. He was able to state what he disagrees with in the game, but in doing so didn't say what he wanted was objectively correct, nor did he assume any higher ground. I repped him because he did what basically nobody here is capable of: respectfully disagreeing.(5)

  • I was not trying to say or imply any of those things. In one of my earlier posts in this thread I said I have found no evidence of any kind of direct endorsement of satanism by Konami whatsoever. I stand by that opinion that Konami has not crossed that line (as of post).
  • I appreciate hearing your view, which I have not thought of before. I will take some time to think of the subject.
  • Same response as response to # 2
  • I have not been trying to determine it's morality; I was just trying to state that I disagreed with what Konami was doing.
  • I hadn't thought about that difference between his post and mine. Also, I haven't tried to assume any higher ground or call myself objectively correct. I am trying to be respectful in my disagreement, but I apologize if I have not come off as that - I've typed my responses in this thread off the top of my head while still trying to maintain a civil manner of discussion in my posts, and I apologize for any confusion or such.
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So guys, if I want to enjoy playing, and I don't have any friends nearby who'll play just for fun, do you have any suggestions on how to play casually?  There's local tournaments near me, and the people who play there are great, but they've invested in their decks considerably more than I care to.  So I end up at a constant disadvantage, and that gets to be a drag.  That's nobody's fault, but it leaves me a bit disappointed. 

 

Maybe there are other games to recommend that you've discovered that don't share this characteristic?

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So guys, if I want to enjoy playing, and I don't have any friends nearby who'll play just for fun, do you have any suggestions on how to play casually?  There's local tournaments near me, and the people who play there are great, but they've invested in their decks considerably more than I care to.  So I end up at a constant disadvantage, and that gets to be a drag.  That's nobody's fault, but it leaves me a bit disappointed. 

 

Maybe there are other games to recommend that you've discovered that don't share this characteristic?

Get a friend group online and play online

That's literally how I sustained casual interest during the entire time I played

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I will admit that things can become stale at times but there has always been the Meta. Lightsworns were once the dominant force but you hardly hear from them anymore as an example. The good newws is that where the meta lies, the cards from other archetypes become stupidly cheap. I got a mint Madolche Anjelly a while back for £2. Also being anti meta is all a big thing too. Experiement. Now you are tempting me to make a Madolche deck for the current meta lol.

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cr47t, have you considered that the inclusion of the demonic in Yu-gi-oh! allows players to take the role of a noble hero who defeats the demons? Just as our Heavenly Father permits the existence of Satan so that His true believers may be tested and proven. For surely He could oust Satan's influence from the Earth for ever, if He so wished? Similarly, by running the holy decks of Noble Knights, Lightsworn or Counter Fairies (Angels), you can defeat the Infernoid, the Burning Abyss, and the Invoked True Draco Spellbooks.

 

Blessings upon ye, young servant of the ʟᴏʀᴅ.

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Let's see.... What I think of the game.

General thoughts

 

Rarity:
Rarity is necessary for a game of this kind to afford to exist. Though the rarity bumps and short prints are scrubby. It makes sense from a business stand point to see the OCG market react to it and adjust to TCG market by bumping expected high interest cards, even casual ones like Shard of Greed or Gagaga Girl since not all bumps will be for competitive reasons like Desires... I still sometimes feel cheated about it. Then again, rarities are low with Secrets being 1:12 in pull ratio, except when they overdo it in epic proportions such as Maximum Crisis Cases stock-full of only Ultra Polis and Zarcs as Secrets, or that awful "2 Nekroz of Brionacs per case" episode [/never forget] (just to be clear: 1 case = 12 boxes, 1 box = 24 packs). As long as they keep ratios of pulls somewhat reasonable things are fine. IMO...

 

Demonic themes:

I understand but can't sympathize with the sentiment. I guess to each their own. Demons are seemingly abundant in the game but the sheer size of the card pool is. It has always had those tones. Summoned Skull = Demon's Invocation. Archfiends are pretty much the equivalent opposite of Archangels, and Archfiends are really "Daemon". Fiend-Type and Fairy-Type are actually Demon-Type and Angel-Type in OCG. The list goes on and on. 

Censorship in Yugioh in general bothers me. I don't think any artwork ever printed in a Yugioh Card or any theme is strong enough to warrant it. Even as a little kid I remember saying OCG artworks made TCG artworks look kind of crappy, and I was like 11 years old. Granted, it'd take something like a "2 girls 1 cup" level of disturbing printed as an image in a card for me to get uneasy so I probably have higher tolerance than average if Yugioh OCG uncensored themes offend enough people, but still.

 

Card Game:

I don't personally play in competitive. Not a fan of floodgate strategies to counter a meta, but also I'm not a fan of "blow up turn 1 and there's no time for anything" which is to me, an almost insufferable amount of speed. Truth be told, relatively speaking top tier duels have always been fast paced so the concept of having a meta is nothing new. I don't think any serious card game can exist without eventually forming a more consistent competitive landscape. A meta is always bound regardless of how small the gap is between itself and the rest of the game. 

 

I see the charm of the current game being as full of options and immediate answers consistently piloted against a similarly powerful deck at any given event, and learning how decks run with their pros and cons and tweaking plays and techs to accommodate much like how you use your tools to try to out a boss at any given videogame. It is a completely different world.

 

Though there's always the "game sucks now, takes no skill" or "things are just stale now" but without really narrowing in "how". I can understand it if we were talking about something like Frog FTK days, but for the most part the game has a lot of scenarios worth thinking on that those comments just dismiss because it is so different to how the game was when it hooked them into it.

 

That is probably the thing. We all have a different preferred threshold we wish was still available in the broader side of the game (as in, with the bigger audiences of the game). I loved the Synchro era days when Deepsea Diva at 3 wasn't so unholy and Flamvells could use 3 Rekindlings, and I could make so many themes from the 5Ds, GX, and DM eras work and do decently at locals with them. Then came the ZeXal era and forward and the new mechanics were amazing additions, yet the new archetypes started grinding home ever stronger how outdated the first 3 gens of the game were becoming....  That's life I guess. No reason to bash the evolution, embracing it can result in discovering really fun things.

 

 

- - - - -

 

I actually run into the opposite kind of issue. I feel diminished whenever I go to any place for Yugioh and bring out anything old and casual. I guess enough old timers are perpetually vocal about any given current state of the game the game has ever had that just giving a hint of using anything old enough makes me automatically seem like one of them.... I seriously feel awkward that people downright ask me if I know what Pendulums are just because I pulled an Axe of Despair from my hand.... Like, I don't really have anything super meta relevant, but at the very least I've used most decks form the Arc Vs era at the very least to try them out.

=( 

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There plenty of variety in YGO (in terms of decks available), but from a competitive point its no use to discuss, you go into a tournament to win si you pick the best deck and so does the others. Regardless there are many decks that can may not be as good as the meta decks, but are competent on what they are suposed to do. I agree i dont like the direction  the game has taken right now (set up board and sit on it). I really hate watching my opponenet for 5 minutes (if no longer) locking me out of the game before i even got the chance to play, only thing to do is to adapt your deck (if posible) to how its played these days or get something else that does it. Boards are so opressive these days that you have Little chance to do anything if you dont run hand traps (owns fault at this pont) or have a deck which is strong as then one you re facing.

 

Back in BA, Shaddolls, Nekroz, boards werent that hard to dea with (except PEPE and variations) because their boards were designed to play more agressive and have more solivng problem effects rather than disruption/stun, still they have their own stun card (winda, unicore, traps) but it werent 2-3 you can't play yugioh monsters (monst of the time).

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I think they've done a good job adding variety of the game recently. However, you must know that it's not the same person making and supervising all of the cards. There will be some less than viable archetypes on occasion. However, I don't understand why they don't hire from HERE. Seriously who here wouldn't be eager to make cards that they can use irl? 

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I think they've done a good job adding variety of the game recently. However, you must know that it's not the same person making and supervising all of the cards. There will be some less than viable archetypes on occasion. However, I don't understand why they don't hire from HERE. Seriously who here wouldn't be eager to make cards that they can use irl? 

 

If the pattern of how companies in general would take actions towards noticeable enough fan made projects, I think YCM is more likely to get a "Cease & Desist" notice than to get any talent scout... sadly.

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