[Leaderboard] BatMed vs The True Sp33dn0id

[BatMed]

Rules:

• All Leaderboard rules apply.
• First to 3 votes or most votes by deadline wins.
• All voters must elaborate on their votes or else the vote will be rejected.
• Both contestants have the right to refuse votes, but must explain why they don't accept it.
• Cards must be PM'd to me.
• Both participants must approve both cards to help prevent functional and grammatical errors.
• I will remake both cards in the same template to help ensure anonymity.
• In case a downtime or an emergency happens, the deadlines may be extended.

Deadlines:

• The deadline for cards is 2 days after challenge has been accepted.
• The deadline for votes is 3 days after cards have been posted.
• In case of a challenger failing to meet the above deadline without explanation, the challenger slot will open up again, at which point it becomes first-come-first-serve between the previous challenger's and new submissions.

Rewards:

• The winner gets a rep from the loser.
• All voters get a rep for voting.

Requirements:

• Support one of Duel Terminal archetypes.

Cards:
[spoiler=CARD A]Worm One
LIGHT | Reptile / Fusion / Effect
Level 5 | ATK 1000 / DEF 1000
 
2 Reptile "Worm" monsters
Once per turn: You can target 1 Reptile "Worm" monster you control or in your GY; this card's name becomes that monster's original name, and replace this effect with that monster's original effects. If this Fusion Summoned card is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 face-up monster on the field; change that target to face-down Defense Position. If this card is in your GY: You can banish 1 Reptile monster from your GY; Special Summon this card in face-down Defense Position, but return it the the Extra Deck when it leaves the field. If this card is flipped face-up: Target 1 of your banished Reptile "Worm" monsters; Special Summon it in face-up or face-down Defense Position.

[spoiler=CARD B]Evilswarm Kirin
DARK | Beast / Effect
Level 4 | ATK 1050 / DEF 150
 
If this card is Normal Summoned: You can target 1 Level 4 or lower "lswarm" monster in your GY; Special Summon that target, and if you do, you can Tribute Summon 1 "lswarm" monster in addition to your Normal Summon this turn. (You can only gain this effect once per turn.) If this card is sent to the GY: You can add 1 “lswarm” monster from your Deck to your hand, except “Evilswarm Kirin”. You can only use 1 “Evilswarm Kirin” effect per turn, and only once that turn.

 

[~~~~]

Ok, count me in!

 

Are written cards acceptable? And are Igknights and onwards (Dracostory) considered DT for this contest?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Ok, count me in!

 

Are written cards acceptable? And are Igknights and onwards (Dracostory) considered DT for this contest?

 

1. For the most part, written cards are always acceptable (and do put less of a burden on you having to find appropriate images). Though in this case, you may wish to find a workable image to your liking as he is making them with his Series 10 template, given that note. 

 

2. I think he may be referring to the older DT archetypes from 5Ds/early ZEXAL, but using the storylines from Master Guides 2 and 3, might include more (including those). Ask him for more details on this. (You might be fine)

[Eshai]

So duel terminal stuff? Would've been fun but apparently, I was late to the party. I dare someone to do Vylons. 

 

Also, who would judge in a 1v1 situation? I feel I could but idk.

[ÆƵ–]

we the users judge these. Without we the users, it's basically always gonna be a tie

 

So duel terminal stuff? Would've been fun but apparently, I was late to the party. I dare someone to do Vylons. 

 

Also, who would judge in a 1v1 situation? I feel I could but idk.

 

Imma vote on this cause I like DT arches

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Well, wait for BatMed to clear up what you mean by DT archetypes before you commit to voting and stuff. If Sp33dn0id doesn't get a card in by the deadline or drops out, Eshai or whomever gets a chance to participate. (Or you can make your own 1v1 and request a Vylon challenge)

 

And yeah, 1v1s are decided by the members who care to vote on them, though both the participants (and me, as an ultimate resort) can decide whether to accept/reject votes based on reasoning. This isn't like the Postseason matches where I had to tiebreak a chunk of them due to zero votes. 

[BatMed]

Ok, count me in!

 

Are written cards acceptable? And are Igknights and onwards (Dracostory) considered DT for this contest?

Written cards are acceptable (even tho a full-card would be moar fun), and nope, the Dacrostory isn't considered DT. They don't even have an official lore book/release yet. 

 

So duel terminal stuff? Would've been fun but apparently, I was late to the party. I dare someone to do Vylons. 

 

Also, who would judge in a 1v1 situation? I feel I could but idk.

If Sp33dn0id retreats, Imma take you.

[BatMed]

cards are up!

[Darj]

Card A:

With 4 effects this gives me a vibe of trying to overcompensate for the need of teching fusion summoning tools in Worms; sure, there is Future Fusion now, but if you are playing that, you may as well call for Worm Zero and threat with a bigger punch instead.

And despite the 4 effects, it actually looks rather passive since it revolves around face-down Defense Position and 2 of those effects depend on the car reaching the grave; its Level5 doesn't help either: Level4 would have at least assisted with Rank4 plays along Xex and Yagan, or Level8 for Rank8 plays along Worm King techs. Add to this that I find cheap how the cost of the 3rd effect conveniently sets up the 4th one. Also, IMO the flavor is off because if it's supposed to be the worm number one a.k.a. the first one, it's kind of ironic for it be composed of 2 Worms when in theory it should be the single being that started it all; unless I'm missing something on my interpretation.

 

Card B:

Really good support here. You can't go wrong with a Wolfbark effect + floating but... that's exactly my issue with this card: it looks lazy and like a "I will just put 2 good cookie-cutter effects together". Not to mention that a floating Wolfbark is too good, regardless of powercreep, and it would completely outclass Kerykeion if the effect wasn't bound to its Normal Summon. I can see that it did try to support the Level5+ lswarms but... Golem and Coppelia aren't exactly that good and IMO the card creator should have instead tried to highlight the strong aspects of the archetype, rather attempt to patch up their weakest parts, so to speak. I would mention Steelswarms, but since this card is not an Steelswarm, their effects won't trigger anyway. In short, the card is strong but lacks creativity; and you can't really blame "lswarms" for being a rather straightforward Rank4 archetype: there are a couple of sides of the archetype that can be empathized. For instance, to throw an idea, their removal monsters Ketos and O'lantern, and their Flip monsters, which would very much welcome the ability of turning their effects into Quick Effects.

By the way, I would like to know on which DP monster is this monster based on.

 

 

So, I don't remember if C votes are allowed in the Leaderboard, but if they are, I vote for that one.

If they aren't, then for A for at least being more creative.

[BatMed]

Card A:

With 4 effects this gives me a vibe of trying to overcompensate for the need of teching fusion summoning tools in Worms; sure, there is Future Fusion now, but if you are playing that, you may as well call for Worm Zero and threat with a bigger punch instead.

And despite the 4 effects, it actually looks rather passive since it revolves around face-down Defense Position and 2 of those effects depend on the car reaching the grave; its Level5 doesn't help either: Level4 would have at least assisted with Rank4 plays along Xex and Yagan, or Level8 for Rank8 plays along Worm King techs. Add to this that I find cheap how the cost of the 3rd effect conveniently sets up the 4th one. Also, IMO the flavor is off because if it's supposed to be the worm number one a.k.a. the first one, it's kind of ironic for it be composed of 2 Worms when in theory it should be the single being that started it all; unless I'm missing something on my interpretation.

 

Card B:

Really good support here. You can't go wrong with a Wolfbark effect + floating but... that's exactly my issue with this card: it looks lazy and like a "I will just put 2 good cookie-cutter effects together". Not to mention that a floating Wolfbark is too good, regardless of powercreep, and it would completely outclass Kerykeion if the effect wasn't bound to its Normal Summon. I can see that it did try to support the Level5+ lswarms but... Golem and Coppelia aren't exactly that good and IMO the card creator should have instead tried to highlight the strong aspects of the archetype, rather attempt to patch up their weakest parts, so to speak. I would mention Steelswarms, but since this card is not an Steelswarm, their effects won't trigger anyway. In short, the card is strong but lacks creativity; and you can't really blame "lswarms" for being a rather straightforward Rank4 archetype: there are a couple of sides of the archetype that can be empathized. For instance, to throw an idea, their removal monsters Ketos and O'lantern, and their Flip monsters, which would very much welcome the ability of turning their effects into Quick Effects.

By the way, I would like to know on which DP monster is this monster based on.

 

 

So, I don't remember if C votes are allowed in the Leaderboard, but if they are, I vote for that one.

If they aren't, then for A for at least being more creative.

 

I do believe they're allowed if it is stated in the main thread (which is not), so card A take the vote. Even tho I'm not convinced with "creativity" thingy, but since I'm ok with the rest then it doesn't matter.

 

1-0 for card A

[ÆƵ–]

Card A is, in all honesty, not really what worms needed. Worms needed a way to get started early game, to get some field presence. This card unfortunately does not do that. It is a mid-late game card that helps keep field presence, which they already have in the form of queen and zero. The best way I can see this being used is with future fusion and dumping queen and something else, but why would you use fufu if not to make a giant-ass worm zero?

 

Card B is excellent support for swarms, in either iteration (steel or evil). This can actually lead to a pretty good field in steels, with lots of combo options available. But because it's an evil itself, it can't be used for Hercules, but he's creeped af anyways so it's fine. Evils also have like 2, maybe 3 mons that require tribute, but that's not really their style so *shrug*. The search and revive is nice, and because it can't search itself you can search pollux or kary for moar normals next turn. 

 

I'm voting card B here. Card A would be good if worms had good starting plays, but they unfortunately do not. 

[BatMed]

1-1 Tie

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Card A:

With 4 effects this gives me a vibe of trying to overcompensate for the need of teching fusion summoning tools in Worms; sure, there is Future Fusion now, but if you are playing that, you may as well call for Worm Zero and threat with a bigger punch instead.

And despite the 4 effects, it actually looks rather passive since it revolves around face-down Defense Position and 2 of those effects depend on the car reaching the grave; its Level5 doesn't help either: Level4 would have at least assisted with Rank4 plays along Xex and Yagan, or Level8 for Rank8 plays along Worm King techs. Add to this that I find cheap how the cost of the 3rd effect conveniently sets up the 4th one. Also, IMO the flavor is off because if it's supposed to be the worm number one a.k.a. the first one, it's kind of ironic for it be composed of 2 Worms when in theory it should be the single being that started it all; unless I'm missing something on my interpretation.

 

Card B:

Really good support here. You can't go wrong with a Wolfbark effect + floating but... that's exactly my issue with this card: it looks lazy and like a "I will just put 2 good cookie-cutter effects together". Not to mention that a floating Wolfbark is too good, regardless of powercreep, and it would completely outclass Kerykeion if the effect wasn't bound to its Normal Summon. I can see that it did try to support the Level5+ lswarms but... Golem and Coppelia aren't exactly that good and IMO the card creator should have instead tried to highlight the strong aspects of the archetype, rather attempt to patch up their weakest parts, so to speak. I would mention Steelswarms, but since this card is not an Steelswarm, their effects won't trigger anyway. In short, the card is strong but lacks creativity; and you can't really blame "lswarms" for being a rather straightforward Rank4 archetype: there are a couple of sides of the archetype that can be empathized. For instance, to throw an idea, their removal monsters Ketos and O'lantern, and their Flip monsters, which would very much welcome the ability of turning their effects into Quick Effects.

By the way, I would like to know on which DP monster is this monster based on.

 

 

So, I don't remember if C votes are allowed in the Leaderboard, but if they are, I vote for that one.

If they aren't, then for A for at least being more creative.

 

Card C/D (for the 3-ways) votes are always allowed in Leaderboard, bar 0-0 situations at the deadline (no one voted). 

 

====

Might as well vote though.

 

Card A

 

Forgetting the quotes around "Worm", but that's minor as hell and won't be counted against you. But as a whole, it's basically another Fusion boss for them to make outside Zero so I mean, that's great for them. But as AEZ mentioned above, Worms are still slow at getting stuff out (bar with FuFu to make Zero in the first place). Would've helped if they had their own Polymerization or something to make it work instantly.

 

Card B

 

Ohai Avatar Kirin (yeah, that should be the monster that got corrupted to make this).

 

Card goes both ways here; either help to Rank 4 into whatever you feel is necessary (either of the Xyz or generics) or the Tribute option for Steelswarms and certain Evils (uh, Coppelia/Golem), though I don't think the latter sees much play nowadays. Searching effect is fine, as I don't believe "lswarm" have any form of searching; let alone consistent ones at that for their members. (Ophion gets their SUPPORT cards, but not the members). In other words, card gives them some added speed to R4 faster and access their stuff more easily. 

 

=====

So yeah, B gets the vote this time because it actually does stuff for the Deck. 

 

While A isn't bad, it otherwise has a smaller niche than Zero mid/late game and not addressing early game needs (including being able to make Zero or some other ED quick enough).

[BatMed]

Card C/D (for the 3-ways) votes are always allowed in Leaderboard, bar 0-0 situations at the deadline (no one voted). 

 

====

Might as well vote though.

 

Card A

 

Forgetting the quotes around "Worm", but that's minor as hell and won't be counted against you. But as a whole, it's basically another Fusion boss for them to make outside Zero so I mean, that's great for them. But as AEZ mentioned above, Worms are still slow at getting stuff out (bar with FuFu to make Zero in the first place). Would've helped if they had their own Polymerization or something to make it work instantly.

 

Card B

 

Ohai Avatar Kirin (yeah, that should be the monster that got corrupted to make this).

 

Card goes both ways here; either help to Rank 4 into whatever you feel is necessary (either of the Xyz or generics) or the Tribute option for Steelswarms and certain Evils (uh, Coppelia/Golem), though I don't think the latter sees much play nowadays. Searching effect is fine, as I don't believe "lswarm" have any form of searching; let alone consistent ones at that for their members. (Ophion gets their SUPPORT cards, but not the members). In other words, card gives them some added speed to R4 faster and access their stuff more easily. 

 

=====

So yeah, B gets the vote this time because it actually does stuff for the Deck. 

 

While A isn't bad, it otherwise has a smaller niche than Zero mid/late game and not addressing early game needs (including being able to make Zero or some other ED quick enough).

 

1-2 for card B

[~~~~]

Right I'm getting slightly pissed off now.

 

I want to reject all votes on the basis that nobody noticed that you're obviously supposed to summon Card A with Instant Fusion. It's not a mid game card. And it's Batmed's fault the quotes aren't there. I put them on in my PM to him.

 

EDIT, before someone brings me up on this: You can google "Evilswarm Kirin" and it's a card that Batmed has posted on Deviantart, so don't so complaining to me about lack of anonymity since there never really was any in the first place.

[BatMed]

Right I'm getting slightly pissed off now.

 

I want to reject all votes on the basis that nobody noticed that you're obviously supposed to summon Card A with Instant Fusion. It's not a mid game card. And it's Batmed's fault the quotes aren't there. I put them on in my PM to him.

 

EDIT, before someone brings me up on this: You can google "Evilswarm Kirin" and it's a card that Batmed has posted on Deviantart, so don't so complaining to me about lack of anonymity since there never really was any in the first place.

 

*Fire and death in the bg* come here ma boi *hugs* there is nothing to be mad about *smooch*

 

0 - 0 cause "mass vote rejecting" is accepted, until voters updated their vote by taking Instant Fusion into consideration I guess. AND Darj ma man to reason with something other than "creativity".

[Darj]

So, if Card B is the corruption of Avatar Kirin, then the flavor is off, too, since Fire Kings are not in the DP universe.

And hey, creativity is a fair argument here, IMO. Just taking 2 cookie-cutter effects and putting them on a single card, and being so close to outclassing Kerykeion, I find it unfair. You can support pretty much every deck with a floater Wolfbark, so you got to spice things up to earn the vote from me.

 

And right, I forgot about Instant Fusion. While that indeed helps, is also highlights its overkill-ish vibe of doing too much with 4 effects; and while the copy effect may appear harmless at first, note that it can copy stuff like Worm Queen and King with its first effect before Instant Fusion's drawback destroys it. IMO, when a single card has 4+ effects, it doesn't speak well of it and more often than not it's a case of either trying to overcompensate the weaknesses of an archetype/deck, like the B.E.S. Field Spell, or on the opposite side, deliberately pushing it too far, like Ultimate Conductor Tyranno (counting the burn and the removal as separate effects, and without factoring in its inherent summoning condition, which in a way is another effect). But to be fair, this card's case remains unclear to me since the effects are rather slow, as you have to get the card first in the grave (where IF's drawback or copying King or Queen helps), bring it back with its own effect, then flip it to trigger its Summon effect, and finally flip the monster it summons to gain full value, or just Summon it face-up and do other stuff like Xyzing. Its Level5 keeps it from going for a Rank4 with Xex/Yagan and at this point it acts as a balancing factor.

 

 

I shift my vote towards Card A, because while it does have 1 too many effects for my liking, you cannot really make use of all of them at once in the same turn and thus it is not as overwhelming. The combo with Queen/King is cool, but you have to get that Queen/King in the board or grave first so it is not so simple, even with Nebula Meteorite around. Actually, this card supports the use of Queen/King as techs since you can Normal Summon them by Tributing an Instant Fused Card A, when otherwise they would be dead-draws.

[BatMed]

So. if Card B is the corruption of Avatar Kirin, then the flavor is off, too, since Fire Kings are not in the DP universe.

And hey, creativity is a fair argument here, IMO. Just taking 2 cookie-cutter effects and putting them on a single card, and being so close to outclassing Kerykeion, I find it unfair. You can support pretty much every deck with a floater Wolfbark, so you got to spice things up to earn the vote from me.

 

And right, I forgot about Instant Fusion. While that indeed helps, is also highlights its overkill-ish vibe of doing too much with 4 effects; and while the copy effect may appear harmless at first, note that it can copy stuff like Worm Queen and King with its first effect before Instant Fusion's drawback destroys it. IMO, when a single card has 4+ effects, it doesn't speak well of it and more often than not it's a case of either trying to overcompensate the weaknesses of an archetype/deck, like the B.E.S. Field Spell, or on the opposite side, deliberately pushing it too far, like Ultimate Conductor Tyranno (counting the burn and the removal as separate effects, and without factoring in its inherent summoning condition, which in a way is another effect). But to be fair, this card's case remains unclear to me since the effects are rather slow, as you have to get the card first in the grave (where IF's drawback or copying King or Queen helps), bring it back with its own effect, then flip it to trigger its Summon effect, and finally flip the monster it summons to gain full value, or just Summon it face-up and do other stuff like Xyzing. Its Level5 keeps it from going for a Rank4 with Xex/Yagan and at this point it acts as a balancing factor.

 

 

I shift my vote towards Card A, because while it does have 1 too many effects for my liking, you cannot really make use of all of them at once in the same turn and thus it is not as overwhelming. The combo with Queen/King is cool, but you have to get that Queen/King in the board or grave first so it is not so simple.

 

Creativity as a factor, and alone, isn't enough imo, (but who am I to make the rules XD) also, I didn't not cookie-cut 2 effects and made it as you said, I went studying the deck and see what it lacks (which was A LOT) and end up making 5 cards, this was one of them. stap hurting my heart of cadu

 

But anyways, 1-0 card A

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

(Assume that no one was looking at his dA page because it was something that he made a year ago, and we aren't going to skim his collection of works just to find it. While there is no rule on using older cards you have made, they just cannot be stuff you have already used for previous tournaments.)

 

But re-evaluating yours as I temporarily forgot Instant Fusion existed (you'd have to ask the other two why they didn't note the IF interactions).

 

====

Having Instant Fusion helps for making this live and getting stuff off (because yes, there's no reason to summon this normally over Zero). Absorbing other Worms in the GY for a turn is nice, as a chunk of the Main Deck usually have good effects [King/Queen included for destruction/field presence]. That, and suppose it does soften up other monsters on the opponent's board, as the Flip members for Worms aren't really that good / take too long to set up (bar Victory). Recycling banished Worms is fine; you can regain the monster you banished to trigger its first effect. (I thought I saw another Worm that needed to banish, but either I misread it or the database I'm using right now is sheet at finding it). Now that this was brought up, it is doing a lot for a monster that's supposed to be Instant Fusion'd effect-wise, but mostly reliant on you having setup Worms to do anything of importance.

 

(Granted, you do have Xex to set up the GY for that right away [or Foolish Burial if you have to], but that's it right now outside of using IF to dump more stuff for you)

 

My vote remains for card B at the moment (for this case, I'll just consider anything that got a Tospedia story to be in the DT storyline). While A's reevaluation does push it up in viability (hey, at least Queen/King can go off it turn 1), it is still trying to correct multiple problems Worms have all at once. 

 

[i'll go ping AEZ on Discord to fix his vote]

[Darj]

Creativity as a factor, and alone, isn't enough imo, (but who am I to make the rules XD) also, I didn't not cookie-cut 2 effects and made it as you said, I went studying the deck and see what it lacks (which was A LOT) and end up making 5 cards, this was one of them. stap hurting my heart of cadu

 

Then you didn't pick your best work for the contest IMO xD

I mean, this may be what they need and it is certainly good, especially when the float effect is compatible with milling and Xyz material detachment, and you can bring it back with Kery to search another Kery and rinse and repeat a couple of times, but when it's so close to a Kerykeion 2.0, and you know how outclassing good cards is frowned upon (emphasis on "good" because outclassing stuff like Two-Pronged Attack is fine, but outclassing something like, let's say, Twin Twisters, would not be so ok), while it has such generic vibe, then it doesn't look fair.

 

But, for example, if this was an "Advanced Heraldry Art"-ish Infestation Spell/Trap instead, and thus took advantage of Ophion's search effect, then it would have been more acceptable, since you would be making use of the archetype's current support tools. Funnily enough, its float effect does mimic Heraldic Beast Leo's float effect xD

 

Then there is the issue of Fire Kings actually not being part of the DT universe, which conflicts with the card's flavor.

[ÆƵ–]

I did forget about instant fusion, but my vote still stands. Unless you're playing snake rain in worms, which there is no reason to do besides for card A's effect, it's still a mid-late game card. It does nothing as a starter on its own; all of its combos are reliant on the graveyard which worms have no reason to dump into early for besides turn 1 fufu zero. I'm not saying it's a bad card, it's a great player if you have the set up to do stuff, but it's the set-up that makes it a mid-late. A deck like worms is a grindy mid-late deck, which just needs some good starter plays, and this doesn't provide that. 

 

Card A is, in all honesty, not really what worms needed. Worms needed a way to get started early game, to get some field presence. This card unfortunately does not do that. It is a mid-late game card that helps keep field presence, which they already have in the form of queen and zero. The best way I can see this being used is with future fusion and dumping queen and something else, but why would you use fufu if not to make a giant-ass worm zero?

 

Card B is excellent support for swarms, in either iteration (steel or evil). This can actually lead to a pretty good field in steels, with lots of combo options available. But because it's an evil itself, it can't be used for Hercules, but he's creeped af anyways so it's fine. Evils also have like 2, maybe 3 mons that require tribute, but that's not really their style so *shrug*. The search and revive is nice, and because it can't search itself you can search pollux or kary for moar normals next turn. 

 

I'm voting card B here. Card A would be good if worms had good starting plays, but they unfortunately do not. 

[BatMed]

2 - 1 for card B 

[BatMed]

3 days have passed: Card B won 2 - 1.

 

Good job me.