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Coin of Greed [Written]


Sleepy

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Coin of Greed

[spell Card]

Until this card's effects resolve, the hand size limit becomes 3, players can only have up to 3 cards in their Spell & Trap Zones, and up to 3 monsters in their Main Monster Zones at a time each. During your next Standby Phase, draw 2 cards. When this card is activated: Toss a coin and apply 1 of these.

-Heads: Your opponent draws 1 card during their 2nd Standby Phase.

-Tails: Your opponent draws 1 card during their next Standby Phase.

 

 

- - - - -

 

You ultimately get a +0 out of this. The way it works:
If the result is heads, your next Standby Phase will essentially give you a Pot of Greed effect. THEN the opponent's Standby Phase after you got your draws, him/her will get their draw.

If the result is tails, right after you ended the turn when you activated this card, that is the turn when your opponent will get their draw. THEN on your next Standby you'll get yours.

 

Basically, yours will be delayed 1 turn regardless, but your opponent's will come in sooner or later than yours depending on the result.

I was thinking on doing them right away, but it felt cheap for something belonging to the Casual section, but Pot of Desires essentially does it so IDK...

 

It is like Cup of Ace, but slower and you get both the bad and good effects of it eventually.

It also tries to softly setup Heavy Slump if push comes to shove. 
I am also thinking on making it hard OPT, even as a delayed effect, can you imagine pulling off 3 heads with this? lol, but I really wanna prevent the opponent from playing around Heavy Slump.....

 

What do you people think?

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I think it's a bad deal, even for tricks with Heavy Slump and even Exodia builds because of the delayed draws for you, no matter the coin result.

I got no suggestions for the card at the moment because it really depends on your intentions with this card, and I can't really pinpoint which intentions are those; only combo it with Heavy Slump, or do you have other applications in mind?

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I would say it's actually a -3 if you count the cards the opponent gains. I think it's a bad deal, even for tricks with Heavy Slump and even Exodia builds because of the delayed draws for you, no matter the coin result.

I got no suggestions for the card at the moment because it really depends on your intentions with this card, and I can't really pinpoint which intentions are those; only combo it with Heavy Slump, or do you have other applications in mind?

 

Your math's off. Your opponent draws 2 cards, and so do you. That cancels things out. The only minus you actually take is this card going to the GY.

 

My idea is right now coming up with generic draw effects with variations. Not like, "OMG ABSOLUTE $100+ STAPLE NEED 3 OF THEM BEFORE NEXT EVENT!!!1!!" but something that's good enough to replace the plot fixer moves from DM/GX/5Ds era-esque plays. Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, Mirage of Nightmare, etc, which everybody used when they ran out of cards and always pulled them at the right time AND strictly when they were falling behind. I'm trying to see what sort of variety I can add to that.

 

The card would be a +0 if I only gave the opponent 1 draw, and I wouldn't mind losing the Heavy Slump combo like that, but that single draw doesn't sound like you are getting much of a double edge for Pot of Greed.

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Yeah, realized my mistake too late xD

I see your goal but... IDK, it's a hard thing to accomplish when you are competing with stuff like Desires and to a certain degree Cards of Demise, and in lower tiers there is Card Car D. IMO Shard of Greed is the card that would fill the niche you want to fill, but the card is just not good enough for the top tiers.

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Yeah, realized my mistake too late xD

I see your goal but... IDK, it's a hard thing to accomplish when you are competing with stuff like Desires and to a certain degree Cards of Demise, and in lower tiers there is Card Car D. IMO Shard of Greed is the card that would fill the niche you want to fill, but the card is just not good enough for the top tiers.

 

I guess Card Car D would be less of a risk, as much as it might take the Normal Summon.

 

Shard is not really.... The card is fragile to removal, making it pretty much fancy bait.

And it isn't flexible enough to give you a single draw 1 turn early, or a 3rd draw 1 extra turn later, both of which are things I would have done if I had designed it.

 

Though to be fair, neither Shard or this card will make instant dramatic comebacks any time soon. Most of my draw effects require some sort of delay in exchange for the plus, so they need to be planned.

 

A little variety to draw effects doesn't hurt, even if decks already have technical options. Who knows, some of these might offer more affinity to certain decks than what is currently available.

One of the strategies I'm focusing on is a build-up pattern where you temporarily lose card advantage before getting more cards. Mainly because I have in mind a deck that gets bonuses when you have few cards. These sorts of effects can work well with Cybernetic Cyclopean, Theban Nightmare, my old custom Sitting Long Neck card, and more seriously, Balance of Judgment.

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I guess Card Car D would be less of a risk, as much as it might take the Normal Summon.

 

Shard is not really.... The card is fragile to removal, making it pretty much fancy bait.

And it isn't flexible enough to give you a single draw 1 turn early, or a 3rd draw 1 extra turn later, both of which are things I would have done if I had designed it.

 

Though to be fair, neither Shard or this card will make instant dramatic comebacks any time soon. Most of my draw effects require some sort of delay in exchange for the plus, so they need to be planned.

 

A little variety to draw effects doesn't hurt, even if decks already have technical options. Who knows, some of these might offer more affinity to certain decks than what is currently available.

One of the strategies I'm focusing on is a build-up pattern where you temporarily lose card advantage before getting more cards. Mainly because I have in mind a deck that gets bonuses when you have few cards. These sorts of effects can work well with Cybernetic Cyclopean, Theban Nightmare, my old custom Sitting Long Neck card, and more seriously, Balance of Judgment.

 

Why don't you make your own Shard of Greed exactly like that? xD

 

And I see what you mean: taking minuses, and then gaining the pluses later. Kind of like a reverse "Into the Void"? Funnily enough, Shard of Greed fits this description as well, in that it's dead first for a couple of turns, then later gives you the draws.

 

In that case, IMO giving the opponent only 1 draw with this card would be right on spot.

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It honestly feels just too similar to Cup of Ace, even if both effects are applied with a delay on the one that wasn't flipped to. I dunno, feels like maybe more could be done to differentiate it from Cup of Ace.

 

I re-worded it since I found out that the owner's drawing time is too invariable, and reduced the opponent's draw to 1 card.

Also, added a restriction clause. The field can only be as big as a Duel Links field and the hand size limit shrinks as well, until all the draws of this card's effects happen.

In theory it should limit how much one can set down or keep in hand with the new-found draws.

 

It sort of gives a give and take between tails and heads now, because heads gives you the draws first, but your opponent's turn is when the game goes back to normal and they get to abuse that size first (if able), or you get the draws later, but you start up with extra hand and a bigger sized possible field..

 

Too much? .....

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My issue wasn't so much balance as it was trying to find a proper niche for the card. So, the question I raise is what can be changed to set this card apart? I like the luck-based/gambling idea, and maybe something can be done to play that angle more, rather a strict guaranteed payout one way or another. Maybe how much you get could depend on the result(s) of the coin(s) or dice(die)? Who knows? It's your card and your design so I'm trying not to make it for you, but hopefully you'lre picking up what I'm throwing down

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My issue wasn't so much balance as it was trying to find a proper niche for the card. So, the question I raise is what can be changed to set this card apart? I like the luck-based/gambling idea, and maybe something can be done to play that angle more, rather a strict guaranteed payout one way or another. Maybe how much you get could depend on the result(s) of the coin(s) or dice(die)? Who knows? It's your card and your design so I'm trying not to make it for you, but hopefully you'lre picking up what I'm throwing down

 

Hmm maybe the draw 1/draw 2 effects could be flipped around depending on the result. As in, heads: draw 2, opp draws 1. Tails: draw 1, opp draws 2.

Though having that sort of risk sounds like it'd become even more similar to cup of ace, which is all or nothing rather than compromising the pros and cons in any way.

Other than that, I don't think I can grasp what you have in mind. There seems to be a middle ground between keeping the gambling excitement, and updating things so that you are not flatout punished 50% of the time (making a card typically undesirable).

 

The idea of the OG version of this card, is that it giving you the draws eventually regardless means it's trying to appeal to more general parts of the game than cup of ace. I did pick up that you don't wanna make my card for me, but a more specific suggestion would be really welcomed. Otherwise can't say I have a ton to work with at the moment besides a mindset I already sort of had about the card....

 

Don't get me wrong, I do find the post helpful, I'm just trying to push for a little more here xD

 

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Hmm maybe the draw 1/draw 2 effects could be flipped around depending on the result. As in, heads: draw 2, opp draws 1. Tails: draw 1, opp draws 2.

Though having that sort of risk sounds like it'd become even more similar to cup of ace, which is all or nothing rather than compromising the pros and cons in any way.

Other than that, I don't think I can grasp what you have in mind. There seems to be a middle ground between keeping the gambling excitement, and updating things so that you are not flatout punished 50% of the time (making a card typically undesirable).

 

The idea of the OG version of this card, is that it giving you the draws eventually regardless means it's trying to appeal to more general parts of the game than cup of ace. I did pick up that you don't wanna make my card for me, but a more specific suggestion would be really welcomed. Otherwise can't say I have a ton to work with at the moment besides a mindset I already sort of had about the card....

 

Don't get me wrong, I do find the post helpful, I'm just trying to push for a little more here xD

 

 

Hmmmm well, I won't give you any specific examples because, as I said, I'm not just going to make the card for you. But what I'm saying is that what the card is is too similar in function and role to an existing card without offering a different enough angle that sets it apart and gives it a different niche. An example of something that does this right would be between Cosmic Cyclone and Twin Twister. Cosmic offers a stronger removal with an easier cost at the cost of not removing as many, while Twin Twisters has a bigger cost for bigger amounts of weaker removal. At the end of the day, they offer the same thing: spell and trap removal, but while they perform the same role, they do so in different ways that some decks may want to run instead of the other.

 

For this card, simply having it as a "Flip coin and either get the good result or the bad result" is more or less just going to be what Cup of Ace is. For a more specific example, I'm thinking of something like maybe having an easy luck-based requirement to fulfill that gives you a small reward (like flip 2 coins and if one them gives you your result draw 1 card) while also having the option to go further for greater reward but at a greater risk (then you can flip 1 coin and if it's your result draw another card/ draw 2 more cards/ etc. but if not discard X cards). It would be different than Cup of Ace, despite doing a very similar thing, because it's not necessarily better, but does the same thing in a different way that some might find more appealing than the OG.

 

There's a lot you can do with it, so don't consider only my suggestion; think outside the box for what it could be, and what a risk vs. reward/double-or-nothing effect may look like.

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