Does an artist's/actor's personal actions affect how you view their work? (Kevin Spacey controversy)

[VampireofDarkness]

Lemme put it this way:
 

Phil Spector is a convicted murderer, and knowingly threatened the Ramones at literal gunpoint.

Gary Glitter has been accused and convicted of several things.

Twiggy Ramirez, the bassist of Marilyn Manson, has been accused of rape

Prince has abused copyright enough times

Social Repose has been caught cheating twice

 

And I still would put Phil in my top 5 producers of all time

"I'm The Leader of the Gang" and "Rock and Roll" are still classic Glam Rock anthems

Twiggy would be in my top bassists of all time (Albeit at the bottom of that list) and "KILL4ME" has one of my favorite basslines of the year

Prince is top 10 artists of all time for me

And I still would recommend the "Empress" EP and the "Yalta" album to any person reading this who is interested and call Social Repose one of the best newcomers in Alternative

 

Yes, it kinda sucks and I can sort of understand it, but at the very least, we shouldn't erase the impact and history of those individuals before and after said incidents. To eliminate culture this way is a little more than asinine, but I do understand those that turn their heads away from their future pursuits or works that give new context in light of their own accusations. Just don't put it on others to take your viewpoint is the most I would ever ask

[Simping For Hina]

Not really. While they are actors, I am watching the movie in focus of the acting and the story telling, etc. I am not going to care about what they have done, as it isn't going to define my enjoyment of the show. It affects how I view them, but they are a different personality when they are in character, so I find the divide between their character and their character to get in the way of each other when I am watching or viewing the form of media.

[Tentacruel]

I mean yes, but I voted for Trump so I can't say sheet. 

 

That being said, a lot of actors but more importantly a metric crapton of directors/producers/executives behind all your favorite movies are terrible people.  Might as well boycott everything.

[Dad]

Let's add Roy Moore to this list since he acting like he innocent.  And now George Takei under fire too.  Smh.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'm a fan of innocent until proven guilty. So a lot of people on this list are clear for now. Spacey and Louis CK admitted, and there's proof enough for an arrest, but I'm proud our country isn't guilty until proven guilty by mob rule. We can't let it become that way

[Phantom Roxas]

Let's add Roy Moore to this list since he acting like he innocent.  And now George Takei under fire too.  Smh.

Going to wait until I hear more for George Takei. With Roy Moore, the issue seems to be more that his allies aren't acting like what he did was wrong. They acknowledge that he had relationships with a 14 year-old, and are calling those relationships consensual, completely overlooking that 14 year-olds legally cannot give consent.

 

There's also Eddie Berganza, who has worked at DC Comics for a long time as an editor, and has received multiple promotions throughout his career in spite of it.

[bury the year]

So this one hits me at an interesting time, because the lead singer of my favorite band admitted to sexual misconduct with a 15-year old back in 2002. It's hard to reconcile it, and truthfully it's making me consider dropping further support for the band.... On the other hand, reading his apology makes me wonder: yes, nobody's above reproach; but is there anyone who's beyond forgiving? It sounds like he was in the throes of a pretty bad addiction at the time, and I'm sure we've all been in situations where we're compelled to do stupid stuff we'd regret later. Nobody's perfect; and while people should be held accountable to their actions, I think acknowledging the mistake and pledging to reform is at least a first step to remedying things.

 

This also doesn't even go to mention the double standard between the entertainment and political spheres in terms of handling these sorts of incidents.

[Dad]

Politicians ain't nun but entertainers of a different field. I'm holding everybody responsible b.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Move this to debates maybe? Given it's mentioned atleast 3 prominent pols?

[Delibirb]

Hard to say, for me.

Part of why I was enjoying watching House of Cards, and why I loved Se7en, the Usual Subjects, etc., was because I respected Spacey. His acting skills and the works he appears in were amplified by my own excitement for him specifically being in it.

 

Now, however? I haven't watch HoC since. I'm wary if seeing Baby Driver when I was hyped before. Maybe that'll change in the coming months, but my enjoyment and excitement for things he's in is greatly reduced by my dwindling respect for him, both as a man and an actor. There's a subplot in HoC that deals with a situation uncomfortably similar to what he finds himself in now and it infuriates me.

 

Again, maybe ill be able to separate the man from the characters in time, but while all of this is still fresh, still being discovered, even, I find it difficult to like anything he has appeared in, as my respect for him was a big part of why I loved them.

[Dad]

Move this to debates maybe? Given it's mentioned atleast 3 prominent pols?

 

No.  If you want a thread in debates, make one.  This isn't even something that should need to be debated, but whatever.

 

 

Hard to say, for me.

Part of why I was enjoying watching House of Cards, and why I loved Se7en, the Usual Subjects, etc., was because I respected Spacey. His acting skills and the works he appears in were amplified by my own excitement for him specifically being in it.

 

 

 

Basically how I felt.  I was already getting kinda bored with House of Cards but this sealed the deal for me.  I can separate fiction from real life, that's not the problem.  The problem is supporting him as a person.  I won't do it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No.  If you want a thread in debates, make one.  This isn't even something that should need to be debated, but whatever.

 

Basically how I felt.  I was already getting kinda bored with House of Cards but this sealed the deal for me.  I can separate fiction from real life, that's not the problem.  The problem is supporting him as a person.  I won't do it.

There's a lot of accusations flying which target political figures and celebrities. 

 

As far as I know, this country is still innocent until proven guilty. Given the charged emotions and seeming further shoes to drop, it seems like we can make this a debate topic

 

But it's fine if you don't want to, I'll just not post here anymore

[Dad]

There's a lot of accusations flying which target political figures and celebrities. 

 

As far as I know, this country is still innocent until proven guilty. Given the charged emotions and seeming further shoes to drop, it seems like we can make this a debate topic

 

But it's fine if you don't want to, I'll just not post here anymore

Cute.

 

Make a debate thread about it.  Leave emotion out of it if you're gonna debate.  Or you can just stop posting altogether.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

To be frank, I don't care that much about celebrities/movie stars, etc. or hearing about their personal lives, so answer is generally no.

 

I mean, there are some Chris Brown songs I like, even taking into account what got in with him and Rihanna, but that's about it. If I do think differently about an artist's work, it's because of how they do it (either they get better, or their works turn trashy) and irrelevant to their outside life. 

 

===

Then again, might be that the stuff that I do like doesn't have any bad blood on its hands (as far as I care to know). If one of the actors for Five-0 gets into a scandal, I may have to rethink this. Otherwise, yeah. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Cute.

 

Make a debate thread about it.  Leave emotion out of it if you're gonna debate.  Or you can just stop posting altogether.

It's not cute actually, I disagree with George T. in about everything you can think about. But an individual accused him of rape/assault, and he denied it. Until proven otherwise he is innocent. 

 

This ties into a greater discussion about title X and former President Obama's "Dear Colleague" letter which dealt with the rights of the accuser v the rights of the accused. People should realize that this lynch mob mentality will fundamentally ruin people's lives. And it has. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/mother-of-son-who-hanged-himself--after-being-accused-of/

 

No, I'm not emotional: I detest george takei for n number of reasons, but there is a serious discussion to be had about whether it's right to drag his and other's name through the dirt before we find the facts

[Dad]

Are you stubborn or just incapable of following simple directions? I'll do you one better and make the thread myself.

[Phantom Roxas]

Politicians ain't nun but entertainers of a different field. I'm holding everybody responsible b.

 

Heh, I like this reasoning.

 

Apologies if the Debates thread was meant to supplant this one, but since this thread wasn't locked, I'll try to keep some points in this thread separate from that one.

 

Interestingly enough, while most of the artists under fire seem to have individual problems, I've noticed that the man I mentioned before - Eddie Berganza - as well as Andrew Kreisberg (Who works on various DC shows on the CW) was suspended for sexual assault, and Gal Gadot has said that she will not return as Wonder Woman unless Brett Ratner is no longer involved with her next film. While Berganza, Kreisberg, and Ratner are all connected with DC in various ways, I think that Warner Bros. is the bigger issue here.

 

Out of all things, it took BuzzFeed to finally cast the spotlight on Eddie Berganza's actions. If anyone's curious, their article is here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/dc-comics-editor-eddie-berganza-sexual-harassment?utm_term=.ccwpva76N#.fh6xpP0r3

 

One line in particular stands out to me as far as this thread is concerned.

 

Berganza has become a quintessential company man at a big company inside an even bigger company; DC Comics is part of DC Entertainment, which is owned by Warner Bros., part of Time Warner Inc.

 

This highlights why punitive actions aren't usually taken against people. Eddie Berganza is "valuable" to DC, and in a sense, Warner Bros, and Brett Ratner (Who's worked with New Line, another subsidiary of Warner Bros) was allowed to work on films in spite of his actions being known within the company. While I want to encourage separating the editors, directors, and producers from the men they are behind the scenes, it's hard because these people are rewarded for their talents in spite of their sexual assault, while other people are too afraid to work in these industries as long as it means being anywhere near these men.

 

That is an issue which came up in BuzzFeed's article, in that a lot of women dreamed of working at DC, and if you think the logical solution would be to just keep Berganza away from women, then DC seemed to reach the same conclusion. However, they went about it in exactly the wrong way, denying several women work, and all the while allowing Berganza to rise through the ranks of the company. So, really, it was less keeping Berganza away from women, and instead keeping women away from Berganza. In Berganza's case, I can't separate his work from his personal actions, because he personally violated so many people that they felt afraid of being a part of their industry. His work came at the cost of preventing other people from getting work, and that's just looking at DC solely as a publisher. Knowing how this affected people on a personal level isn't something I can overlook just because I think Batman is cool.

[Dad]

 

 Gal Gadot has said that she will not return as Wonder Woman unless Brett Ratner is no longer involved with her next film. While Berganza, Kreisberg, and Ratner are all connected with DC in various ways, I think that Warner Bros. is the bigger issue here.

 

 

 

Holy sheet, this could actually tank DC.  That would suck hard.  Not to mention Ratner's career might be over.

[Phantom Roxas]

Holy sheet, this could actually tank DC.  That would suck hard.  Not to mention Ratner's career might be over.

 

DC is heavily at risk right now, especially with Justice League coming out this week. Currently the plan is for 2018 to be a "clean slate" for their films, but if Gal Gadot doesn't want to come back for Wonder Woman 2, then DC/Warner has a choice to make. It's either Ratner or Gadot. Considering what happened to Weinstein and Spacey, I wouldn't be surprised Ratner's career really is at risk of ending.

 

I may start a separate topic for corporate mergers, but AT&T is in the process of trying to acquire Time Warner, which means AT&T could own DC. So even if this doesn't tank DC, it could still make someone at AT&T decide to take action. Either DC shoots themselves in the foot, or AT&T will do it for them.

[Dad]

Terry Crews just came forward saying he was sexually assaulted by Adam Venit, head of the motion picture department at William Morris Endeavor. Venit's clients are big stars. Must've gotten to his head, the creep.

[vla1ne]

Terry Crews just came forward saying he was sexually assaulted by Adam Venit, head of the motion picture department at William Morris Endeavor. Venit's clients are big stars. Must've gotten to his head, the creep.

assaulting the old spice man? how funking sick IS hollywood?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

The poor dude smelled too good for his own good. 

[Dad]

assaulting the old spice man? how funking sick IS hollywood?

Put some respect on Terry Crews name.

 

The poor dude smelled too good for his own good.

 

Shoulda used power BLOCK.

[Phantom Roxas]

Following up on two of the men I mentioned before, Eddie Berganza has been outright terminated from DC Comics - since "suspended" initially suggested that he could potentially be allowed back - and Brett Ratner has been kicked off Wonder Woman 2.

[Fusion X. Denver]

I'm just hoping that crying sexual assault/abuse won't become weaponized. Not only will it unfairly indict innocent people, but it'll also undermine future cries of sexual assault that are true and won't be taken as seriously as a result.

That said, it's nice to see that a streak's been occurring and Brett Ratner got kicked off WW2.