Decode Talker

[Blake]

2+ Effect Monsters

Gains 500 ATK for each monster it points to. When your opponent activates a card or effect that targets a card(s) you control (Quick Effect): You can Tribute 1 monster this card points to; negate the activation, and if you do, destroy that card.

 

This is not a good card. This is a passable card, but it's certainly not good.

1. Link Arrows are mediocre. We have enough L2s to make the arrows not matter.
2. Mostly negligible, but giving the opp a linked zone is a bad idea. Putting it in MMZ just makes it even more vanilla, and better laddering options exist.
3. Its effect is okay at best. ATK gain isn't terrible, but tributing a monster to negate a targetting effect really only serves to block extended versions of the Grinder combo. It can force subpar play, but that's usually not enough.
4. Most times that you can make this, there is a better play. Be it with Gofu, Magicians, whatever. Only time this seems even decent is ABC, and I'm sure they can do better.

Mostly due to seeing people still use Gofu to make this (online) and move on with life for... reasons?

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

This card is excellent. It's consistently used for OTK's, it's generic, and it protects against almost all relevant backrow removal. At YCS Dallas a number of the SPYRAL players that topped said it was second only to Double Helix in terms of Extra Deck monsters they went into (largely by using Double Helix and Master Plan to activate the latter's effect). 

 

Sure it'll probably get powercrept, but as far as initial stuff to introduce the mechanic goes it's pretty great - reminiscent of Stardust Dragon in that regard. 

[Blake]

This card is excellent. It's consistently used for OTK's, it's generic, and it protects against almost all relevant backrow removal. At YCS Dallas a number of the SPYRAL players that topped said it was second only to Double Helix in terms of Extra Deck monsters they went into (largely by using Double Helix and Master Plan to activate the latter's effect). 

 

Sure it'll probably get powercrept, but as far as initial stuff to introduce the mechanic goes it's pretty great. 

It's not even powercreep. The card was always in the "I'll play it cause I have to" category. You can say that people in a format where there is nothing else to play will attribute things to it, but that doesn't mean it is, especially considering that a top doesn't qualify them in and of itself.

 

Nevermind that Borreload was out at the time, and that's definitely the best card in the ED after Helix, considering what it gains you/forces out of the opp in the mirror.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

You can say that people in a format where there is nothing else to play will attribute things to it, but that doesn't mean it is, especially considering that a top doesn't qualify them in and of itself.

 

Among those players were Imran and Faisal Khan. Winning a YCS (especially given how they did it as brothers with identical decks) does kind of qualify them far more than it qualifies anyone here. I'm not sure what your metric for qualification regarding competitive success is would be but if the goal is to do well at events then they're certainly people I'd listen to.

 

 

Nevermind that Borreload was out at the time, and that's definitely the best card in the ED after Helix, considering what it gains you/forces out of the opp in the mirror.

 

Borreload is also a great card, but it's a bit more of an investment and can be fairly vulnerable to having put your eggs in one basket if you can't for sure win the game with it right away. Decode Talker is generally a 3300 beater that protects everything from all targets whereas Borreload just protects itself from monster targets.

[Blake]

Among those players were Imran and Faisal Khan. Winning a YCS (especially given how they did it as brothers with identical decks) does kind of qualify them far more than it qualifies anyone here. I'm not sure what your metric for qualification regarding competitive success is would be but if the goal is to do well at events then they're certainly people I'd listen to.

 

Borreload is also a great card, but it's a bit more of an investment and can be fairly vulnerable to having put your eggs in one basket if you can't for sure win the game with it right away. Decode Talker is generally a 3300 beater that protects everything from all targets whereas Borreload just protects itself from monster targets.

Winning doesn't mean they're right. Lots of people have won a YCS, and it's generally agreed that Borreload is the best card in the mirror. It's not uncommon knowledge that decode is a carry over card, and citing it as "it helped here" doesn't mean it isn't such.

 

Decode doesn't aid your wincon, it just gives you the potential for extra beef, but you can just use better cards in the first plac. Spyral realistically shouldn't have trouble OTKing people, and as long as Borrel is there to break their board without being killed itself, it doesn't matter what it protects aside from itself.

 

The card isn't good moving forward, and it was only acceptable up til now. It shouldn't keep being made every opportunity it can be like a lot of players seem to think.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Winning doesn't mean they're right.

 

It really does though, results are the ultimate way to prove yourself in the game. If you know better than YCS winners, then it behooves you to get out there and win one. 

 

The card isn't good moving forward, and it was only acceptable up til now. 

 

Sure this card likely has an expiration date, but it's done very well and is still in the majority of Extra Decks relevant to the meta today in both the TCG and the OCG. Any card that is as "acceptable" as Decode Talker is at the highest levels of competitive play is appreciably good in my books. 

 

It shouldn't keep being made every opportunity it can be like a lot of players seem to think.

 

Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean that every instance in which it's made is suboptimal and that everyone who continues to use it (especially in the TCG) is to be faulted for doing so. 

[VCR_CAT]

It really does though, results are the ultimate way to prove yourself in the game. If you know better than YCS winners, then it behooves you to get out there and win one. 

 

No, it doesn't. The OCG Train builds that won tournaments ran freaking Planet Pathfinder. Anyone who knows that deck knows how completely awful of a tech that is. Only reason any of those builds won was because they had 3 Vanity's and 3 Skill Drain, but I can't imagine that from stopping players such as yourself from blindly accepting that a card is good because a deck that won a tournament ran it.

 

That's not how it works. You need to be doing more thinking for yourself rather than flocking to someone and immediately accepting what they say because they have played in a tournament.

 

There are many reasons a card may be run, and especially in this case, "Because there's nothing generically better out yet" is nowhere near a reason for something to be called "good". Tournament players and winners are nowhere near infallable, and just like anyone else, even if they win, they can still make bad choices in their card choices and strategies. Yes, even if it's multiple players. "But people run it" isn't a reason in itself, and I don't know why you would think it is.

 

 

 

Sure this card likely has an expiration date, but it's done very well and is still in the majority of Extra Decks relevant to the meta today in both the TCG and the OCG. Any card that is as "acceptable" as Decode Talker is at the highest levels of competitive play is appreciably good in my books. 

 

"Because there's nothing better" doesn't mean something's good. It means there's no better options. Surprise, people will play a mediocre card if there are no better options.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, this card is hardly anything more than stats with semi-generic materials. I find it funny that you tout the card as excellent because it's "used for OTK's". Like, yes, it definitely has attack points and it definitely can cause damage for attacking. I suppose Force of the Earth is excellent because it can be used for an OTK too.

[~~~~]

While I defo agree about it being in the "play it 'cos I have to" category right now, I totally think it can be a good card. The effect is pretty unique as far as effects go. Assuming that it's not directly powercrept by something that can just tribute to negate anything regardless of whether it targets or not, I think this card has a niche going forward. For example, it's pretty good against Paleozoic because of how much of their backrow targets, and similar decks might also be countered effectively by it.

[Darj]

I too think it's a good card. Putting aside its "I play it because there is nothing better yet" syndrome, you got to admit that it has solid effects and that may or may become relevant depending on the formats. I mean, for example, targeting may not be a big thing right now, but you never know when it will be, and that's where this card may come in. Also, it may be lackluster in some decks because they aren't capable of filling its 2 marked Zones, but in decks that can feasibly do, it shines more since it reaches a higher ATK, and gets more uses for its negation effect that conveniently lacks any sort of OPT clause.

 

As I see it, it is good right now, and most likely will remain good, at the very least as a meta call.

[Sleepy]

The Link Pointers going down is actually pretty rare as per what we currently have in TCG. Not all decks can make 2 same-Attribute materials for Mistar or Misus without going out of their way and we still have a while before Link VRAINS' set actually comes here. Barreload Dragon is the only Link 4 that has more than 1 arrow pointing down, and even ignoring price/rarity/availability, it is still an extra Link Rating and a card that cannot use less than 3 materials.

I think Decode in that regard is the best thing we've got for a while. At least in terms of something generic, until the Link-based set comes over here and/or we get Powercode Talker.

 

That's just talking about the pointers though. I wish they had reprinted Decode Talker in the new deck as an extra throw-away common, because I haven't seen people really get the card by any other means than buying an extra copy of the Starter Deck... *cough*
The effect is not the absolute most relevantly game-breaking thing ever, because sometimes it might as well not exist. Other times though, it is an okay layer of control that does hinder plays a little. It IS meant to be a bonus because you are using it mostly for generic 2 down arrows in a 3300 ATK body (most of the time). I'm sure there'll be times when this shines much more. If something like Drident were to be top of the game again I think this would at least not be dead.

 

 

I like the pattern of main character cards trying to cover basic niche counters.

Stardust = anti-effect destruction.

Utopia = anti-attacks.

Odd-Eyes = less generic than the others but anti-battle damage and generic Pendulum search.

Decode = anti-effect targeting.

 

Only Stardust was ever the best at whaht he does *cough*

 

[VCR_CAT]

The target protection is nothing but mediocre at best. While it does have the effect negation going for it, it's still costing you a monster either way, and especially that it's something that it's pointing to, it still doesn't offer any real change in advantage in most situations and either way the opponent is removing something. General effect negation will always be better going into, and quite a few competent decks have means to access those sorts of monsters (since Konami decided to make too many of them). Decode's negation only really means something for multiple-target effects, such as Twin Twister, because then at least there's a change in advantage and you're protecting more than you're losing.

 

But even despite that, the target protection isn't very likely to become meaningful. It's not a general negation, so it's not like it actually stops the opponent from going into different cards and playing normally, and most opponents are just going to have means to slam into it before doing their thing or dealing with it through alternate ways.

 

In my experience, target protection on a body only ever meant something against decks that only had targeted means of removing cards coupled with very low ceilings, and the last time that really meant something was pre-Beatrice Burning Abyss. But those days are over, and decks like that have new tools to access and new ways to deal with threats.

 

If this card came out in like, 2014-2015, it might've meant something. But today, it's nothing more than a card that people just run because LVP1 and Skulldeat aren't here yet.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

As of right now, LINK VRAINS Pack isn't coming to the OCG for another couple weeks. As of right now, LINK VRAINS Pack has no TCG equivalent and there is no telling how the cards in LINK VRAINS Pack are to be released. The next update to the TCG's F/L list could be in effect as soon as January 2018, under two months away. It could include Grinder Golem, it could include Astrograph Sorcerer.

 

It's going to be a while before all the cards in the LINK VRAINS Pack come out in the TCG (it could be a long while if the TCG doesn't go the equivalent pack route), and I imagine Decode Talker will still see at least some competitive play across multiple formats after LVP1's cards have all settled in the TCG. I think it's more than safe to say that we won't see any of the new cards from LVP1 in the TCG for at least another 3 months (in that time, I'll have competed in a regional and probably at least 20 locals). Yet a number of people here seem to base their entire understanding of the game on the fairly far future, probably because they just play online with their silly Grinder-Astrograph-Electrum combos that they probably saw on Lithium.

 

For now, I'm certainly glad that Decode Talker exists and that Gaia Saber, Ningirsu and Tri-Gate aren't my only options when it comes to generic Link-3's (although I do very much like Ningirsu). Decode Talker has won me games. Decode Talker provides a way out of a clogged EMZ, it opens up two zones for new Extra Deck monsters, it's frequently in the 2800-3300 ATK range, it can negate anything from SPYRAL Sleeper to Paleozoic Dinomischus to Time Pendulumgraph to Twin Twisters. For all these reasons and more, it's a good card now and for the foreseeable future in the TCG. If you don't want to call it a good card, the only thing that can be attributed to is that you don't appreciate it as good. Well, if you want assign some other adjective to it that's fine, but I appreciate Decode Talker card as good, and if you could too, why wouldn't you? 

 

No, it doesn't. The OCG Train builds that won tournaments ran freaking Planet Pathfinder. Anyone who knows that deck knows how completely awful of a tech that is. 

 

What tournaments? Source yourself. There's a difference between an 1100-person YCS and an 17-person "Duel-Off!" local in Japan with Tier 1 decks disallowed. If you can't make that distinction, you have no business telling anyone how to think.

 

That's not how it works. You need to be doing more thinking for yourself rather than flocking to someone and immediately accepting what they say because they have played in a tournament.

 

A huge part of critical thinking is having an open mind to sources, then determining which of them carry the most weight. There's a difference between thinking for oneself and living under a rock. When two brothers come 1st and 2nd at the same 1100+-person event with an identical decklist and very similar strategic mindsets going into the event and after proving themselves the supreme top 0.1% of the many players there who'd invested so much in the game, it's something we should take stock of.  

 

Black tells us Decode Talker is "certainly not good" (apparently because one too many a person made it with Gofu against him and passed. Using that reasoning the same could be said about Skulldeat if people threw it out on its own and passed.)   

 

For now, Decode Talker is a card that's worth most of the value of the Structure Deck it comes in, and it's not because everyone who plays it is stupid, and it's not because it's useless going forward.

 

If this card came out in like, 2014-2015, it might've meant something. But today, it's nothing more than a card that people just run because LVP1 and Skulldeat aren't here yet.

 

Except it was released in 2017 and it's meant, means, and will mean something to the players who picked it up and played, play, and will play it. If it means nothing to you besides a placeholder, then I'm sorry you've missed out on its value but it's still not too late to make something of it.

[Sleepy]

I personally can only ever talk from my casual point of view, as I haven't been all that big of a fan of the competitive scene for the last 5 or 6 years. There are good times in-between but overall I'm pretty much a filthy casual that does what I think is fun and interactive.... sooo my opinion barely counts for anything,

 

However, can't we just agree the card has potential and try to actually be specific about what replaces it where (and when)? I just see "card is trash now, we have better stuff, it was never good". 

 

If the card ever saw play, even if something better than it could exist, if it doesn't and the card sees play, then the need for it makes it justified IMO. The card is good enough for its niche. Look at that Lightsworn card that searched out JD, that card covered a rather unique niche, but it was not good enough to be used despite no other cards in the game really covering said niche. Decode Talker is not that kind of card. It feels underwhelming in OG stats, in non-surprise-factor with its effect, and in a lot of other places of its design such as "no tokens", "3 materials, not 2", etc. Though the thing is, it might not excel in one of those traits, yet it has a good enough amount of them to be seeing play.

 

It is well rounded enough for the time being.

[Darj]

I cannot back this up, but I get the vibe the targeting protection is being underestimated. I mean, even as a 1-for-1 trade, it's still suppressing the opponent from playing its targeting effects, or "force subpar plays" as mentioned in the OP, but you know, those subpar plays can make a big difference sometimes, and in a way, it may not be enough on its own, but it's a subtle layer of disruption added to your killer board. Plus you reap benefits by Tributing monster that float, namely 2 of the ABC maindeck Machines in the case of ABCs, or otherwise non-valuable monsters you have linked to it.

[The Warden]

The reason targeting protection is looked down upon is because the best means of removal usually don't target Darj.

[Blake]

As of right now, LINK VRAINS Pack isn't coming to the OCG for another couple weeks. As of right now, LINK VRAINS Pack has no TCG equivalent and there is no telling how the cards in LINK VRAINS Pack are to be released. The next update to the TCG's F/L list could be in effect as soon as January 2018, under two months away. It could include Grinder Golem, it could include Astrograph Sorcerer.

 

It's going to be a while before all the cards in the LINK VRAINS Pack come out in the TCG (it could be a long while if the TCG doesn't go the equivalent pack route), and I imagine Decode Talker will still see at least some competitive play across multiple formats after LVP1's cards have all settled in the TCG. I think it's more than safe to say that we won't see any of the new cards from LVP1 in the TCG for at least another 3 months (in that time, I'll have competed in a regional and probably at least 20 locals). Yet a number of people here seem to base their entire understanding of the game on the fairly far future, probably because they just play online with their silly Grinder-Astrograph-Electrum combos that they probably saw on Lithium.

Firstly, I didn't make anything personal. The fact you feel the need to result to thinly veiled slights is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Moving on, I definitely didn't copy from Lithium. I found the synergy while testing Electrum soon after it got put on YGOPro, told Kaiji about it because it was nuts, and then he linked me a video of someone doing the play a few hours later.

 

Not to mention that, even if I had done that (despite my distaste for ygtube in general), netdecking and copying combos shouldn't be shamed like this. How do you think you learn how to play a deck in the first place? That's usually better than stumbling blindly through a deckbuilder.

 

As for slighting people who play online, maybe those people don't have the funds to play a physical game.

 

For now, I'm certainly glad that Decode Talker exists and that Gaia Saber, Ningirsu and Tri-Gate aren't my only options when it comes to generic Link-3's (although I do very much like Ningirsu). Decode Talker has won me games. Decode Talker provides a way out of a clogged EMZ, it opens up two zones for new Extra Deck monsters, it's frequently in the 2800-3300 ATK range, it can negate anything from SPYRAL Sleeper to Paleozoic Dinomischus to Time Pendulumgraph to Twin Twisters. For all these reasons and more, it's a good card now and for the foreseeable future in the TCG. If you don't want to call it a good card, the only thing that can be attributed to is that you don't appreciate it as good. Well, if you want assign some other adjective to it that's fine, but I appreciate Decode Talker card as good, and if you could too, why wouldn't you?

Because people have said it's mediocre from the getgo. I know I've never been a huge fan, I know Nick Name has said the same thing I said in the OP about being a carry-over, and so on. This isn't some new thing based around LVP1, but it is based on the fact that, as we continue forward, this card will fall out of favor. Not due to power creep, but due to being underpowered in the first place.

 

It doesn't matter that it negates decent to good cards when you're going to be breaking your boards (Usually a Helix or Sleeper, one costing you less than the other) in order to stop them from breaking your board. It can matter, but it would normally mean throwing resources away in order to do it, which is where the problem comes in. It does matter in regards to sleeper, but especially post-List for the mirror, that Sleeper will just funk you up before you get going, anyway, provided you don't have Agent.

 

 A huge part of critical thinking is having an open mind to sources, then determining which of them carry the most weight. There's a difference between thinking for oneself and living under a rock. When two brothers come 1st and 2nd at the same 1100+-person event with an identical decklist and very similar strategic mindsets going into the event and after proving themselves the supreme top 0.1% of the many players there who'd invested so much in the game, it's something we should take stock of.  

 

Black tells us Decode Talker is "certainly not good" (apparently because one too many a person made it with Gofu against him and passed. Using that reasoning the same could be said about Skulldeat if people threw it out on its own and passed.)   

 

For now, Decode Talker is a card that's worth most of the value of the Structure Deck it comes in, and it's not because everyone who plays it is stupid, and it's not because it's useless going forward.

Again with the slights. Are you using these as a filler for a lack of actual points? I wasn't even the one you were replying to, which makes it even more pathetic.

 

I see the Gofu play all the time. Even if it's not a "and pass" play, they use Gofu incorrectly, even in decks that outright benefit from another Link in the same scenario. Yes, at this time, Gofu into Decode TCG side is a decent play. It gets you two arrows, which is obv better than a single arrow. But even the next main set pushes that usage to the brink of extinction. Even now, Gofu into double Link Spider into Borreload is generally going to be stronger, because it gets you a harder to kill "boss" with slight disruption and the arrows. The only thing is that it takes an extra ED slot, but if you just pull Decode out, you have the slot. Should you do that right now? Probably not, options are important. But that means that Decode isn't even the best Gofu play in-and-of itself.

 

Except it was released in 2017 and it's meant, means, and will mean something to the players who picked it up and played, play, and will play it. If it means nothing to you besides a placeholder, then I'm sorry you've missed out on its value but it's still not too late to make something of it.

I think the statement about years was superfluous given the lack of available context to assess it with the game back then, so ignoring the release date entirely, calling it a placeholder is exactly what it is. The card is average at best, it fills in an important niche only due to lack of cardpool, and no amount of weird statements meant to induce hype cange that. It doesn't mean the card can never show up ever again, but it does mean that it's not going to be the card it is now.

 

I would also like to make a point that Top Players once thought that it was correct to run 2 Zoodiac Barrage. For some reason.

 

Lots of weird trends and ideas happen at top tables, and they're not infallible beings who are absolutely correct. Doing well can just mean variance was in your favor, not to say that's the only thing it is.

The reason targeting protection is looked down upon is because the best means of removal usually don't target Darj.

Stop. This logic is still bad. Target removal is still good.

 

The difference is that the average deck has a ways to get around cards like Decode with less effort than you would like them to.

I cannot back this up, but I get the vibe the targeting protection is being underestimated. I mean, even as a 1-for-1 trade, it's still suppressing the opponent from playing its targeting effects, or "force subpar plays" as mentioned in the OP, but you know, those subpar plays can make a big difference sometimes, and in a way, it may not be enough on its own, but it's a subtle layer of disruption added to your killer board. Plus you reap benefits by Tributing monster that float, namely 2 of the ABC maindeck Machines in the case of ABCs, or otherwise non-valuable monsters you have linked to it.

yeah if you dissolve your ABC you have mats, which is why I mentioned ABC in the OP, but that's one of the few times you have fodder for it to sack. You usually will not benefit for tributing, and even in the ABC example, you (correctly) gave up quickplay removal for targetting protection. Unless you have lots of backrow to protect from Twin Twisters, the chances of that doing much more than making Decode a 33 isn't that high.

[Thomas★Zero]

Simply the fact that Decode is was a semi generic Link Monster can built off Link Laddering cards like Proxy and can gain 500/1000 ATK while being able to at least twice negate and destroy cards with targeting effects is pretty decent. Specailly since it also has 2 down markers that work for your extra deck plays but also for itself with ATK boosts. Plus summoning it off a scapegoat play while leaving a token spare in a zone it points to makes it a 2800 with fodder for its negation effect.

 

So yeah Decode is a pretty nice Link 3 if you ask me. :)

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

*feeling slighted*

 

Hey, I'm not trying to slight anyone. I play online and watch videos myself. I'm responding to lines of argumentation I see here, not anyone's personal character or any of that. I'd find it just as arrogant and frustrating if anyone else were to classify cards that are currently very much relevant to the game (like Decode Talker and like Scapegoat) as trash from an armchair based on personal tests with random opponents of what the game may or may not look like 3 months from now, rather than the card choice and theory that is currently and prominently proving itself at the game's highest levels. 

 

Lots of weird trends and ideas happen at top tables, and they're not infallible beings who are absolutely correct. Doing well can just mean variance was in your favor, not to say that's the only thing it is.

 

If it were *just* variance, the odds of the Khan brothers facing each other in the YCS Dallas finals would in fact be below one in a million (1/1100+ x 1/1100+). They are in fact remarkably skilled players and I think what they accomplished is exemplary of luck playing a much smaller role in this game than is commonly believed and/or used as an excuse. The same goes for people who win YCS's multiple times like Billy Brake. These beings may not be infallible, but they're a lot closer to it than most of the many who try to do what they do and for that deserve a certain degree of deference, if their feats can be said to mean anything at all.