Firewall Dragon is on the OCG Banlist, but should it be, or will things get worse for it?

[ABC Gun]

​For the first time in the entire history of Yu-Gi-Oh!, we have an Ace Monster belonging to a main protagonist that is so strong and can create so many devastating combos, it ended up on the Banlist. Granted its only Limited in the OCG, but could Firewall Dragon go to 0, could it end up on the TCG Banlist at some point, and if so, would we have a situation like in Yu-Gi-Oh! GX where Elemental HERO Flame Wingman was Jaden's Ace Monster but then was replaced with Elemental HERO Neos, in this case Firewall Dragon would be replaced with something else. Personally, I think this card is abusive and Konami should have known that there would be combos and Decks that can take full advantage of that, especially considering they're trying to "slow" the game down with Master Rule 4 (LInk Monsters, Link Summoning, and the condition that you can only Special Summon monsters from your Extra Deck to the new Extra Monster Zone or a Main Monster Zone that is pointed to by a Link Monster).

​Any thoughts about this?

[Blake]

links aren't trying to slow anything, can we please stop shilling that narrative

 

links only serve to move product by making old product weaker without them/stronger with them/just plain selling new link themed product

 

This card is one of the most prevalent FTK/stupid board cards that exist, and it definitely deserves the limit, but Links were never meant to slow down or "fix" the game.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I think a Limit in Firewall Dragon's case is fair and should be all that happens to it, because it was mainly the interaction it had with other copies of itself that would result in the especially problematic loops. 

 

At 1 copy, it's more or less gonna get powercrept by Skulldeat. 

[ABC Gun]

links aren't trying to slow anything, can we please stop shilling that narrative

 

I'm not shilling, that's what Konami wanted us to believe when they made Links and Master Rule 4.

[mido9]

It's fine at 3, it's just that grinder golem/machine dupe quik fix/infernity launcher use it and those are legitimately broken.

[玄魔の王]

In the OCG Firewall will never go to 0. Thanks to the stranglehold Shueisha has on the brand signature cards from the anime almost never end up on the ban list, and even then it's in extreme examples and we'll after its release. Look how long it took them to do anything about Shock Master, and it wasn't even a significant card in the anime. Ancient Fairy was allowed a lot of leeway as well.

[ABC Gun]

I think a Limit in Firewall Dragon's case is fair and should be all that happens to it, because it was mainly the interaction it had with other copies of itself that would result in the especially problematic loops. 

 

At 1 copy, it's more or less gonna get powercrept by Skulldeat. 

 

I agree, but do you think Konami would do to this card what they did to Elemental HERO Flame Wingman when he was replaced with Neos back in GX? I kind of think they could get away with it considering in the anime Yusaku doesn't use as often as compared to again, Jaden, Yusei, Yuma, or Yuya by this point in their respective animes (I'm considering Yugi Mutou because there's no point).

I think a Limit in Firewall Dragon's case is fair and should be all that happens to it, because it was mainly the interaction it had with other copies of itself that would result in the especially problematic loops. 

 

At 1 copy, it's more or less gonna get powercrept by Skulldeat. 

 

I agree, but do you think Konami would do to this card what they did to Elemental HERO Flame Wingman when he was replaced with Neos back in GX? I kind of think they could get away with it considering in the anime Yusaku doesn't use as often as compared to again, Jaden, Yusei, Yuma, or Yuya by this point in their respective animes (I'm considering Yugi Mutou because there's no point).

Does anyone think they will replace Firewall Dragon with a different Link Monster, or find a way to put Firewall Dragon back at 3?

[VCR_CAT]

I'm not shilling, that's what Konami wanted us to believe when they made Links and Master Rule 4.

 

They never did. They never said anything of the sort. Quit pushing false narratives.

[ABC Gun]

They never did. They never said anything of the sort. Quit pushing false narratives.

 

Sorry.

It's fine at 3, it's just that grinder golem/machine dupe quik fix/infernity launcher use it and those are legitimately broken.

 

Yet Konami was just pushing Grinder Golem not too long ago, which is weird to me.

[Blake]

Again, moves Konami makes are based on money.

 

They reprinted Grinder in order to incentivize buying a so-so structure deck. They semi'd it so that they "addressed" it, but can still gain value off of it.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I agree, but do you think Konami would do to this card what they did to Elemental HERO Flame Wingman when he was replaced with Neos back in GX? I kind of think they could get away with it considering in the anime Yusaku doesn't use as often as compared to again, Jaden, Yusei, Yuma, or Yuya by this point in their respective animes (I'm considering Yugi Mutou because there's no point).

 

I agree, but do you think Konami would do to this card what they did to Elemental HERO Flame Wingman when he was replaced with Neos back in GX? I kind of think they could get away with it considering in the anime Yusaku doesn't use as often as compared to again, Jaden, Yusei, Yuma, or Yuya by this point in their respective animes (I'm considering Yugi Mutou because there's no point).

Does anyone think they will replace Firewall Dragon with a different Link Monster, or find a way to put Firewall Dragon back at 3?

 

I feel like most of the protagonists start out with a humanoid, usually Warrior-Type minor boss with 2000-2400 stats before their ace monster with 2500 ATK is revealed, with retrains being made for both the minor boss and signature card.

 

Yugi - Gaia the Fierce Knight (which he Summons episode 1 against Kaiba) to Dark Magician

Jaden - Elemental HERO Flame Wingman to Elemental HERO Neos

Yusei - Junk Warrior to Stardust Dragon

Yuma - Welp Yuma would be the exception, he doesn't have this afaik and goes straight to Utopia.

Yuya - The Timegazer and Stargazer Magicians are sort of this as they receive their own retrains and Stargazer has 2400 DEF.

Yusaku - Decode Talker to Firewall Dragon

 

Firewall Dragon should stick as Yusaku's ace, probably with upgraded versions as with all the other signature protagonist monsters.

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'm not shilling, that's what Konami wanted us to believe when they made Links and Master Rule 4.

I'm pretty sure this whole narrative went out the window the moment co-linking became a thing. With Xyz and Synchro you could just chalk up spamming them to questionable card design, but the idea behind co-linking more or less confirms that spamming the sheet out of Links is entirely intentional and always has been.

 

Anyways Firewall Dragon has been involved in so many loops that it obviously needs list attention.

[ABC Gun]

I'm pretty sure this whole narrative went out the window the moment co-linking became a thing. With Xyz and Synchro you could just chalk up spamming them to questionable card design, but the idea behind co-linking more or less confirms that spamming the s*** out of Links is entirely intentional and always has been.

 

Anyways Firewall Dragon has been involved in so many loops that it obviously needs list attention.

 

Either that or like I said being replaced with something else in the anime and TCG/OCG, or even a simple re-errata to make both its effects hard opt.

[Dokutah]

Since im not a big fan of Erratas maybe a somewhat Balance-yet-strong Upgrade to address Firewall relevance its enough. The banlist already 1 step to manage the Loop

 

Now....Grinder Golem

[Sleepy]

I guess they greatly underestimated it.

 

A card that requires 4 monsters to make, that needs other multiple-material-requiring monsters in specific positions to do a "once while face-up" effect. One would think it is too taxing to consistently utilize. Yet, here we are, you can make 3 of them in a turn and a few other spare Links a decent amount of the time. If this was indeed intentional, it is repulsive design.

 

Master Rule 4 without Links would have been slowing the game down, with Links it means you require a bridge to go back to what you were doing. I personally don't dislike the approach if we compare it to the other alternative: To powercreep what could already make a bunch of Solemn Judgments on legs turn 1 at a net advantage gain, that said, Links are a patch trying to compromise the reached powercreep needing addressing and the desire to not turn towards a rotation system. It's not perfect but it's something.

 

On the topic of if Yusaku can ditch it for something else? Let's compare:

-The Dark Magician could have initially since the Mahad connection wasn't established (or probably even thought up) early on.

-Neos? Never, it is Jaden's one-of-a-kind Ace with a spirit in it. I'm even displeased by the lack of Neos in the manga.

-Stardust is irreplaceable as well. You won't complete the Crimson Dragon without it. 

-Utopia is also a plot-driven Ace as part of Astral's soul, representing Astral's hope. 

-Odd-Eyes (and all dimensional dragons) were key parts of the split, not a chance since they are pretty much a mirror of their owners. There's a connection.

 

Firewall Dragon is a rando "Storm Access" pull that isn't particularly special other than being the first Link 4 Yusaku got. Same as Decode Talker being first Storm Access card pulled and carrying no weight otherwise at the moment. They can be ditched with ease, and actually the storm access is a key element to have the show keep promoting new product, so after a while it is hard to think on why it wouldn't, especially if it ended up requiring list attention. For the mean time, so long as it isn't banned, it is safe though, because it is gonna get some sort of upgrade and more support, and it wouldn't be wise to keep releasing support for a banned card for 3 years.