Jump to content

Welcome to Yugioh Card Maker Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

President Trump: Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?


Necrobump!

Guest, the last post on this topic is over 30 days old and a new post will be considered as necrobumping!



79 replies to this topic

#41
BANZAI!!!!

BANZAI!!!!

    BOOOM!

  • Elite Members
  • 1,631 posts
    Last Visit Oct 21 2018 10:27 AM
  • Discord:Zai#7925
  • Alias:Zai
  • Spouse:Kate

My whole thing with this, and a lot of the president's statements in general, is that its not how the POTUS should act. You're supposed to conduct yourself with dignity and tact when you're in that position. Its not illegal, its just... bad. It makes him look stupid and hateful, which in turn makes the US look stupid and hateful. For me there's no politics involved here at all, its just not something you say as the President of the United States of America. Things you do and say while in office can have far reaching consequences both here and internationally, and I don't think Donald Trump realizes or cares about that. If that doesn't raise some alarm bells, it should.

 

-A Duck's two cents


Posted Image

#42
SkaterTheDJWolf

SkaterTheDJWolf

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • 344 posts
    Last Visit
  • Spouse:ur mom

Absolutely.

 

I'd contest if calling a country a s*** hole is "hate speech"

 

Would it be hate speech if I called North Korea a "s*** hole" what about Venezuela where they're running down dogs for food? How about Chechnya where there's an active holocaust against non-straight individuals? 

 

 

Wait, those actually happened? I think I'm starting to see Trump's statement had a little more validity than I expected.

 

This is, however, about how Trump said that we shouldn't be accepting immigrants from these countries. WE SHOULD, EVEN IF THEY'RE, you know. In fact, the fact that they're that bad means we have to accept immigrants from there even more. It's just Trump being the biggest bigot to ever hold elected office in the U.S.



#43
Dad

Dad

    I was just hoping you know.

  • Juice

  • 14,719 posts
    Last Visit Yesterday, 05:06 PM
  • Discord:Pops#5515
  • Alias:Dad
  • Spouse:Hip-hop

Wait, those actually happened? I think I'm starting to see Trump's statement had a little more validity than I expected.

 

This is, however, about how Trump said that we shouldn't be accepting immigrants from these countries. WE SHOULD, EVEN IF THEY'RE, you know. In fact, the fact that they're that bad means we have to accept immigrants from there even more. It's just Trump being the biggest bigot to ever hold elected office in the U.S.

 

I'mma stop you right there.

 

That title belongs to Reagan.


Drowning in your silence.


#44
SkaterTheDJWolf

SkaterTheDJWolf

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • 344 posts
    Last Visit
  • Spouse:ur mom

Sorry, I double posted by accident.

 

Also, I laughed more than I should've (I don't know who Reagan is).



#45
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 14,027 posts
    Last Visit 6 minutes ago
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate

 

I'm not talking about "shithole". I'm talking about things like "hick" or "nigger". We don't like them. We hate them. You were upset with me because I shouldn't say those things. And you're right. That was awful of me. Yet and still, these things happen (primarily to people of color) and they are told to get over it. Because "it's my right".

 

And yes, North Korea is a shithole. Not because of the citizens but because of its ass backwards ruler.

C'mon, Nancy Pelosi literally made a "five white guys" joke yesterday (ironically her whip in congress was one of those 5 white men).

 

It happens to everyone, people just prioritize it in cases where they feel targeted. And that's not a knock on you. There's a group that was pissed at Pelosi and not at Trump, and another group that was pissed at Trump and not at Pelosi. People tend to look at the complexity of reality and focus on the bits that make them look best or push their goals. I'm guilty of this too (not in this case, but in many others)

 

Angry at you? No. I think we should be able to say "nigger" and "hick" and "faggot"

 

They're cruel and wrong things to say, but give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves. The best disinfectant to finding the wicked people is sunlight

 

I don't think you're wicked, and you were doing yourself a disservice there by going for an ad hom attack, nothing more or less (see I didn't report you)

 

 

My whole thing with this, and a lot of the president's statements in general, is that its not how the POTUS should act. You're supposed to conduct yourself with dignity and tact when you're in that position. Its not illegal, its just... bad. It makes him look stupid and hateful, which in turn makes the US look stupid and hateful. For me there's no politics involved here at all, its just not something you say as the President of the United States of America. Things you do and say while in office can have far reaching consequences both here and internationally, and I don't think Donald Trump realizes or cares about that. If that doesn't raise some alarm bells, it should.

 

-A Duck's two cents

Opposing view pt, the US is under no obligation to prioritize taking in people from nations with far substandard living standards than us (which is what Sen Durbin was trying to get POTUS to do).

 

I'd add on the POTUS's point and also say we shouldn't take in people from rich nations that have a drastically different world view than us (like Norway). In my humble opinion, one more black kid born in Richmond or one more white kid born in Wisconsin is better for America than any immigrant could be


GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif


bngoeJd.gif


#46
BANZAI!!!!

BANZAI!!!!

    BOOOM!

  • Elite Members
  • 1,631 posts
    Last Visit Oct 21 2018 10:27 AM
  • Discord:Zai#7925
  • Alias:Zai
  • Spouse:Kate

Opposing view pt, the US is under no obligation to prioritize taking in people from nations with far substandard living standards than us (which is what Sen Durbin was trying to get POTUS to do). 

 

I'd add on the POTUS's point and also say we shouldn't take in people from rich nations that have a drastically different world view than us (like Norway). In my humble opinion, one more black kid born in Richmond or one more white kid born in Wisconsin is better for America than any immigrant could be

So why can't he say "Its my opinion that the US should not prioritize taking in immigrants from nations with far lower living standards than our own." That's a valid way of saying the same thing without coming off like a simple minded, hateful person. I don;t agree with his opinions, but the issue here isn' what he's saying so much as the way he chooses to express himself.


Posted Image

#47
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 14,027 posts
    Last Visit 6 minutes ago
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate

So why can't he say "Its my opinion that the US should not prioritize taking in immigrants from nations with far lower living standards than our own." That's a valid way of saying the same thing without coming off like a simple minded, hateful person. I don;t agree with his opinions, but the issue here isn' what he's saying so much as the way he chooses to express himself.

That'd be a more eloquent way of saying things, if what he said was hateful (I don't think it is), then putting lipstick on the pig doesn't make it less hateful


GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif


bngoeJd.gif


#48
~ P O L A R I S ~

~ P O L A R I S ~

    love

  • Senior Members

  • 9,795 posts
    Last Visit Oct 21 2018 04:17 PM

A country's ability to integrate people from other countries is critical to both its own growth and its reputation with other countries. That said, there's a balance to be struck when it comes to how many people are allowed in, and immigrants from countries that are especially fundamentally different are going to be harder to integrate. I'm for a certain amount of immigration, but when it's en masse from a very different country then there's that much more to integrate which makes the integration that much more difficult for all parties involved including the migrants. 



#49
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 14,027 posts
    Last Visit 6 minutes ago
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate

A country's ability to integrate people from other countries is critical to both its own growth and its reputation with other countries. That said, there's a balance to be struck when it comes to how many people are allowed in, and immigrants from countries that are especially fundamentally different are going to be harder to integrate. I'm for a certain amount of immigration, but when it's en masse from a very different country then there's that much more to integrate which makes the integration that much more difficult for all parties involved including the migrants. 

And yet a country with one of the lowest immigration rates, Japan, is also one of the most successful?


GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif


bngoeJd.gif


#50
Dad

Dad

    I was just hoping you know.

  • Juice

  • 14,719 posts
    Last Visit Yesterday, 05:06 PM
  • Discord:Pops#5515
  • Alias:Dad
  • Spouse:Hip-hop

And yet a country with one of the lowest immigration rates, Japan, is also one of the most successful?

 

Japan also only has guns on its police force.  Not to mention their school system and education is far more advanced (mostly because they go to school year round).  Their success is attributed to much more than their immigration rate.


Drowning in your silence.


#51
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 14,027 posts
    Last Visit 6 minutes ago
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate

Fair, but this statement

A country's ability to integrate people from other countries is critical to both its own growth and its reputation with other countries. That said, there's a balance to be struck when it comes to how many people are allowed in, and immigrants from countries that are especially fundamentally different are going to be harder to integrate. I'm for a certain amount of immigration, but when it's en masse from a very different country then there's that much more to integrate which makes the integration that much more difficult for all parties involved including the migrants. 

 is false 


GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif


bngoeJd.gif


#52
~ P O L A R I S ~

~ P O L A R I S ~

    love

  • Senior Members

  • 9,795 posts
    Last Visit Oct 21 2018 04:17 PM

It's because of Japan's xenophobic brand of isolationism that they had more in common with the other Axis powers than anywhere else. This of course led to their defeat punctuated by the atomic bomb, and now they depend on bartering with the very nation that bombed them and are forbidden from deploying forces abroad. I'd hardly call that a resounding success.



#53
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 14,027 posts
    Last Visit 6 minutes ago
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate

It's because of Japan's xenophobic brand of isolationism that they had more in common with the other Axis powers than anywhere else. This of course led to their defeat punctuated by the atomic bomb, and now they depend on bartering with the very nation that bombed them and are forbidden from deploying forces abroad. I'd hardly call that a resounding success.

Japan’s economy currently ranks third in terms of nominal GDP

 

I'd call that a success. They've caught up despite all the blows they faced as you noted


GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif


bngoeJd.gif


#54
VCR_CAT

VCR_CAT

    Video Cassette Kitteh

  • Omnic

  • 2,832 posts
    Last Visit 36 minutes ago
  • Spouse:Pizza

First, I do feel the need to explain the racist nature of the statement, mostly because it hasn't come up before and the discussion seemed to just move onto semantics and other stuff.

 

To ask why they keep accepting people from "Shithole" countries isn't so much a statement on the country's economic state, but it's a statement on its people. If those people are immigrating over, the person is immigrating, not the country. To ask why America keeps accepting people from those countries very, very, very heavily implies that there is no perceived worth in anyone immigrating from that country, that there is nothing of value that they can bring to the table that makes them worth accepting into the nation. Of course, the statement would be limited to only this, if it wasn't for the fact that Trump only referred to African nations and Haiti.

 

Nations of predominantly black citizens, while simultaneously saying that they should be accepting immigrants from a nation of predominantly white people regardless of how completely opposite that nation is in political ideology. This sort of discourse is incredibly similar to the same narrative that's said when a company hires a more diverse base of employees. People will say "But why would you hire these women for just diversity instead of qualification?" I mean, the hidden narrative right there is that they don't believe women could be more qualified than the men who were competing for the same job. In the same way, Trump is suggesting that he believes literally anyone from Norway is more qualified to be a US citizen than anyone from all of Africa or Haiti. That's problematic.

 

Now, do I think he meant it in a racist manner? Ultimately, I don't know. I'm not Trump, I don't know his intentions and it's entirely possible that he meant it purely in a manner of speaking about the nation itself, as others in this thread have suggested. However, that doesn't discount what he said, and what he said was really, really not good.

 

There's a lot of weight in what he said, and to suggest that nobody from any nation of those sorts has anything of value to bring is, frankly, a prejudiced thing to say. It's discounting and devaluing people over something that actually has no effect on their value as a person. There should be no defending what he said. Even as Zai said, there are better ways to phrase it that don't come across as hateful, but honestly the same message is there. Even if you paint it gold and encrust it in jewels, a piece of shit is still a piece of shit (referring to the statement, not the person).

 

Regarding the issue of immigration itself, no your country does not have an obligation to accept immigrants from, well, anywhere. But there should be good reasoning behind that, not just blind prejudice. Also, I don't know how much everyone here knows about the process of immigration, but it's not as simple as people just being accepted willy nilly easily. Nor should it be. There should be vetting for qualifications, financial position and potential job placement (it'd probably be worse for someone to let them put everything they had to move overseas just to become almost immediately homeless because they weren't prepared), criminal record, etc. And this process does exist; place of origin should have no meaning in the face of this process. If a person qualifies to immigrate, they should be able to immigrate.

 

People are people. We are all capable of the same potential, to do the same amount of good, and the same amount of wrong. Discrimination from anyone, against anyone, is not right, ESPECIALLY coming from a world leader. If a person is going to go through the effort and the process to become the face of your nation, to be its leader and represent it to the world, then a high standard should be placed upon them. What Trump said was unacceptable, and regardless if you support him or not I would strongly suggest you think about what it is that he said and what's going on. A nation's leader should always be under scrutiny, by its supporters and opponents alike. That's part of how a nation grows and becomes a better place, when its people hold its leader accountable for their words and their actions.


PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA

 

giphy.gif

 

u8g1mOv.jpg


#55
Trisagion

Trisagion

    New Member

  • Members
  • 18 posts
    Last Visit Oct 16 2018 11:48 PM

I was just writing this to myself to see what I had to say about all this, but I figured I might as well post it here.

 

Trump’s “shithole countries” comment is… interesting, to say the least. I’ve honestly used similar language before, though to call it “similar” would be a disservice to myself. I’ve said things like, “What business do I have going to a third world country?” in response to my parents and others asking me if I’d want to visit Ecuador again, with me obviously meaning to say that I have nothing to truly gain from going to and staying in a lesser developed country. I don’t mean this in a necessarily disparaging way, I just mean to say that a lesser developed country will not have much to offer me in place of a more developed and successful one like the US or Germany.

 

I don’t think Trump’s comment is “racist” as a result, though I’ll admit it’s definitely inflammatory even if the description used it… accurate considering the state of those countries. When reading and thinking about that comment, I take it like this: countries such as Haiti and other African countries are obviously third world countries. They’re less developed, and the countries’ people live in poverty and usually have inferior education and therefore little to no potential for more professional positions or creations (businesses). Poverty and lesser education tend to produce unsavory and/or unproductive people that wouldn’t be good in any kind of society, so accepting a large amount of such people would be anything but beneficial. It’s then better to seek to look to accept people from more developed places like Norway or parts of Asia, since these people would be more likely to possess skills and an upbringing more useful to society.

 

Also, to clarify, I don’t believe that ALL people from lesser developed countries are unsavory and unbeneficial, and they aren’t bound to be such either. I believe they, like any other person, can possess the drive necessary to get ahead in life and to improve themselves, obviously being decent folk that work hard and who just want a better lot in life. In fact, because their places of origin are “shitholes”, it’s only natural that they would want to come to a better country for a better life with more opportunities to improve themselves and the lives of their families and (future) children. For that reason, it would be wrong to deny them that chance and bar them from coming to the US, and it’s why we should have a functional merit-based immigration system in place so that we can accept the good people from these places while leaving the bad kind behind.

 

As for Trump’s language, I do think he should learn to take a few moments to think about what he says before saying it, or to at least qualify and explain what he says to avoid heaping more coal upon his own head. I’m also of the opinion that people should shut up about “racism” and being “racist”, because at this point those are just buzzwords used to try and aggravate people and buzzwords only used when the “poor, defenseless people of color” are (supposedly) being “offended”. No one seems to care when white people are at the end of a racial joke or remark, but God forbid you talk about nonwhite folk, particularly black people.



#56
VCR_CAT

VCR_CAT

    Video Cassette Kitteh

  • Omnic

  • 2,832 posts
    Last Visit 36 minutes ago
  • Spouse:Pizza

As for Trump’s language, I do think he should learn to take a few moments to think about what he says before saying it, or to at least qualify and explain what he says to avoid heaping more coal upon his own head. I’m also of the opinion that people should shut up about “racism” and being “racist”, because at this point those are just buzzwords used to try and aggravate people and buzzwords only used when the “poor, defenseless people of color” are (supposedly) being “offended”. No one seems to care when white people are at the end of a racial joke or remark, but God forbid you talk about nonwhite folk, particularly black people.

 

So what should the alternative be? There's some pretty decent ground to see prejudice in the comment made, and the problem isn't just about "being offended". Institutional racism is very really, and it goes beyond people just being offended. Those sorts of narratives, about people having no worth because of where they are from, do real harm against people. People who hear those words, and buy into them, or hear them coming from the president, can affect how those people are able to get jobs, earn a living, and be productive members of society.

 

No, it's not just about "Being offended", it's not as nice as you may think. If you were, say, the top of your class in Highschool and weren't told by the administration that you're better off pursuing trades than anything academic in post-secondary schooling because they didn't think you would ever be smart enough purely on the basis of your heritage, then that's good. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have to deal with that sort of crap at young ages, and that's REALLY not cool. That sort of stuff messes you up for a long time.

 

Speaking out against statements like this isn't about being offended, it's about trying to make the country better for everyone and heading off these kinds of stances at the pass.

 

So no, I don't think people should shut up about "racism". I think it should be brought to people's attention and people should be made aware of it. Because just pretending it's not there isn't going to make it go away.


PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA

 

giphy.gif

 

u8g1mOv.jpg


#57
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 14,027 posts
    Last Visit 6 minutes ago
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate

First, I do feel the need to explain the racist nature of the statement, mostly because it hasn't come up before and the discussion seemed to just move onto semantics and other stuff.

 

To ask why they keep accepting people from "Shithole" countries isn't so much a statement on the country's economic state, but it's a statement on its people. If those people are immigrating over, the person is immigrating, not the country. To ask why America keeps accepting people from those countries very, very, very heavily implies that there is no perceived worth in anyone immigrating from that country, that there is nothing of value that they can bring to the table that makes them worth accepting into the nation. Of course, the statement would be limited to only this, if it wasn't for the fact that Trump only referred to African nations and Haiti.

 

Nations of predominantly black citizens, while simultaneously saying that they should be accepting immigrants from a nation of predominantly white people regardless of how completely opposite that nation is in political ideology. This sort of discourse is incredibly similar to the same narrative that's said when a company hires a more diverse base of employees. People will say "But why would you hire these women for just diversity instead of qualification?" I mean, the hidden narrative right there is that they don't believe women could be more qualified than the men who were competing for the same job. In the same way, Trump is suggesting that he believes literally anyone from Norway is more qualified to be a US citizen than anyone from all of Africa or Haiti. That's problematic.

 

Now, do I think he meant it in a racist manner? Ultimately, I don't know. I'm not Trump, I don't know his intentions and it's entirely possible that he meant it purely in a manner of speaking about the nation itself, as others in this thread have suggested. However, that doesn't discount what he said, and what he said was really, really not good.

 

There's a lot of weight in what he said, and to suggest that nobody from any nation of those sorts has anything of value to bring is, frankly, a prejudiced thing to say. It's discounting and devaluing people over something that actually has no effect on their value as a person. There should be no defending what he said. Even as Zai said, there are better ways to phrase it that don't come across as hateful, but honestly the same message is there. Even if you paint it gold and encrust it in jewels, a piece of shit is still a piece of shit (referring to the statement, not the person).

 

Regarding the issue of immigration itself, no your country does not have an obligation to accept immigrants from, well, anywhere. But there should be good reasoning behind that, not just blind prejudice. Also, I don't know how much everyone here knows about the process of immigration, but it's not as simple as people just being accepted willy nilly easily. Nor should it be. There should be vetting for qualifications, financial position and potential job placement (it'd probably be worse for someone to let them put everything they had to move overseas just to become almost immediately homeless because they weren't prepared), criminal record, etc. And this process does exist; place of origin should have no meaning in the face of this process. If a person qualifies to immigrate, they should be able to immigrate.

 

People are people. We are all capable of the same potential, to do the same amount of good, and the same amount of wrong. Discrimination from anyone, against anyone, is not right, ESPECIALLY coming from a world leader. If a person is going to go through the effort and the process to become the face of your nation, to be its leader and represent it to the world, then a high standard should be placed upon them. What Trump said was unacceptable, and regardless if you support him or not I would strongly suggest you think about what it is that he said and what's going on. A nation's leader should always be under scrutiny, by its supporters and opponents alike. That's part of how a nation grows and becomes a better place, when its people hold its leader accountable for their words and their actions.

Your claim that "To ask why America keeps accepting people from those countries very, very, very heavily implies that there is no perceived worth in anyone immigrating from that country" is false

 

The statement means on average, there a better places to accept people from. The US has an immigration quota, and more importantly it has a domestic population with both economic and cultural needs. 

 

You don't want to accept low skilled workers that might drive down wages, and you don't want to accept people who are culturally incompatible (I'd argue Norway, which the president praised, violates the latter). 

 

The president also has the full authority to control immigration into the country:

 

“The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty … inherent in the executive power,” the Supreme Court said in 1950. And lest there be doubt, Congress adopted a provision in 1952 saying the president “may by proclamation and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens and any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants” whenever he thinks it “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States

 

He can ban individuals from a certain nation for any reason really (SCOTUS has temp upheld the travel ban, and will issue ruling on it soon)

 

7-1 btw

 

He has also stopped people from entering this country from state sponsors of Terrorism, like Iran. Terrorist nations like North Korea. etc. 

 

It's not saying literally anyone from Norway is more qualified, but on average Norway is more qualified. They show higher happiness, are more educated (debatable if a liberal arts degree actually makes you worth more), earn more, have a longer life expectancy. So on. 

 

Your point on diversity is also flawed. Some people think like that sure, but Affirmative action diversity policies will actually focus on getting a woman or minority into a slot focused on quotas instead of qualifications. Like they could discriminate against an asian or white male with a higher score to get the black woman in. 

 

What inherent value does diversity in and of itself possess?

 

Quantify "bad" some of the people who are attacking him politically have said similar things- "hellhole' was used a fair bit

 

He said it bluntly, instead of the nice way Zai rephrased it. But that's about it.

 

Countries share immigration information. On some levels it'll consist of this is how much I made last year, this is my education level, etc. But countries also share the average information like income of quartiles. Life expectancy. That kind of information. Looking at those, show that norway is superior in those regards to the nations he mentioned. 

 

No we're not. A cripple without thumbs is not capable of the same things a person who does have thumbs is capable of. A person who is culturally unsuitable with the US would not be as productive as someone who can integrate easier. It matters what you want out of the immigrant. It's perfectly valid reason to critique multiculturalism and prefer nations that are similar to the US. Norway wouldn't work there, you'd be better off with Eastern Europe or East Asia in that manner

 

Lotta assumptions in here VCR with little justification. Do better


GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif


bngoeJd.gif


#58
Dad

Dad

    I was just hoping you know.

  • Juice

  • 14,719 posts
    Last Visit Yesterday, 05:06 PM
  • Discord:Pops#5515
  • Alias:Dad
  • Spouse:Hip-hop
You keep bringing up affirmative action like black kids didn't once need to be escorted by the military.

The fact that we need affirmative action despite putting out high grades is a problem with the education system.

Drowning in your silence.


#59
~ P O L A R I S ~

~ P O L A R I S ~

    love

  • Senior Members

  • 9,795 posts
    Last Visit Oct 21 2018 04:17 PM

Japan’s economy currently ranks third in terms of nominal GDP

 

I'd call that a success. They've caught up despite all the blows they faced as you noted

 

Yeah, but https://en.wikipedia...uicide_in_Japan

 

People are people. We are all capable of the same potential, to do the same amount of good, and the same amount of wrong.

 

How you define good and wrong is your business, but in the worldly sense that concerns politicians this has never been true. Some people are born with disabilities so severe and into circumstances so harsh they die before they reach their first birthday, and some people are born as the son of Pierre Trudeau, and by their very surname have immediate recognition to say nothing of growing up at 24 Sussex Drive. Others are born on a fentanyl-infested reserve while we were born into comfortable enough circumstances to be posting here now.  

 

Race is a real issue in the United States as it is everywhere else, to pretend it isn't doesn't make you any less racist. Every man to ever be elected as President of the United States of America has had to confront race, and has had to do so in such a way as to be voted in by a historically racist country. 

 

Likewise, the average Haitian and the average Norwegian are probably born into and tempered by radically different circumstances, I guess, but who cares? It ain't where you're from it's where you're at. 

 

Discrimination from anyone, against anyone, is not right, ESPECIALLY coming from a world leader.

 

Every world leader has discriminated, including racially and otherwise. They have to, both to placate their tribal rabble on the road to becoming a world leader and in making decisions as a world leader. That's the way of worldly affairs, as it always has been. If you don't like it, as I certainly don't, then there's the otherworldly and the unworldly, there's myth, religion, escapism, sex, Coca-Cola, vibrant anime, card games, sports, drugs, "music", first-person shooters, and walls of utopian drivel.

 

Pick your delusions, God knows you'll need them! God knows you already have, just as Donald Trump's picked his and I've picked mine. Who am I to judge? It'll all be sorted out in the end as it's meant to be, I have faith in that much.



#60
Trisagion

Trisagion

    New Member

  • Members
  • 18 posts
    Last Visit Oct 16 2018 11:48 PM

So what should the alternative be? There's some pretty decent ground to see prejudice in the comment made, and the problem isn't just about "being offended". Institutional racism is very really, and it goes beyond people just being offended. Those sorts of narratives, about people having no worth because of where they are from, do real harm against people. People who hear those words, and buy into them, or hear them coming from the president, can affect how those people are able to get jobs, earn a living, and be productive members of society.

 

No, it's not just about "Being offended", it's not as nice as you may think. If you were, say, the top of your class in Highschool and weren't told by the administration that you're better off pursuing trades than anything academic in post-secondary schooling because they didn't think you would ever be smart enough purely on the basis of your heritage, then that's good. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have to deal with that sort of crap at young ages, and that's REALLY not cool. That sort of stuff messes you up for a long time.

 

Speaking out against statements like this isn't about being offended, it's about trying to make the country better for everyone and heading off these kinds of stances at the pass.

 

So no, I don't think people should shut up about "racism". I think it should be brought to people's attention and people should be made aware of it. Because just pretending it's not there isn't going to make it go away.

 

My last paragraph was mostly a kind of vent made in response to all the comments being made about derogatory name slinging since that reminded me of the double standard I mentioned at the end of my post: “No one seems to care when white people are at the end of some racial joke or remark, but God forbid you talk about nonwhite folk, particularly black people.” (I think I’ll also just add in “discrimination against white people” here since I just now saw affirmative action is being talked about). That in turn reminded me of how people nowadays are so quick to call out racism and people as racists… even though there might not be any real kind of racism or racists involved. I don’t disagree with you that such things should be called out and ended, but first people should make sure that what they think is there is actually there instead of just immediately grabbing the torches and pitchforks; acting like something is there when it isn’t is not going to help anything or anyone, nor will it prevent a problem from happening.

 

Should the problem actually exist in a particular situation, it should also be confined to that particular situation. What I mean by that is to not universally condemn everyone, in this case white people, which seems to be a popular thing nowadays. I know this kind of thing doesn’t have much to do with the issue at hand (though I guess it kind of does), but again, my mention of all this was kind of a vent on the topic.

 

Also, since I brought up the topic of universally condemning people, I expect to be reminded how Trump's comment seems to universally condemn everyone from the countries he was referring to. Keep in mind that I did basically say how universally condemning and barring people from these places would be wrong, and how instead we should seek to sift and accept the good people from the bad.





Necrobump!

Guest, the last post on this topic is over 30 days old and a new post will be considered as necrobumping!



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users