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President Trump: Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?


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#61
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You keep bringing up affirmative action like black kids didn't once need to be escorted by the military.

The fact that we need affirmative action despite putting out high grades is a problem with the education system.

You don't (on avg)

 

The mean score on the math section of the SAT for all test-takers is 511 out of 800, the average scores for blacks (428) and Latinos (457) are significantly below those of whites (534) and Asians (598). The scores of black and Latino students are clustered towards the bottom of the distribution, while white scores are relatively normally distributed, and Asians are clustered at the top

 

On avg people like me are being pushed aside for someone who objectively scores worse than us for diversity sake. 

 

I actually got an 800 on my Math score, is it fair for me to not get accepted to a school because they wanted that one black kid with a 700 score instead of one of thousands of asians with an 800?

 

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(No, that's honestly likely not why I didn't get into Yale, but it might be why they waitlisted me and dragged my ass over the summer before offering me a spot at U chicago)

 

Affirmative action is incredibly racist and sexist


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#62
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You don't (on avg)
 
The mean score on the math section of the SAT for all test-takers is 511 out of 800, the average scores for blacks (428) and Latinos (457) are significantly below those of whites (534) and Asians (598). The scores of black and Latino students are clustered towards the bottom of the distribution, while white scores are relatively normally distributed, and Asians are clustered at the top
 
On avg people like me are being pushed aside for someone who objectively scores worse than us for diversity sake. 
 
I actually got an 800 on my Math score, is it fair for me to not get accepted to a school because they wanted that one black kid with a 700 score instead of one of thousands of asians with an 800?
 
ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2
 
(No, that's honestly likely not why I didn't get into Yale, but it might be why they waitlisted me and dragged my ass over the summer before offering me a spot at U chicago)
 
Affirmative action is incredibly racist and sexist


Getting into "bell curve semantics" to try and determine the worth and usefulness of people is a foolish thing to do, in my opinion. I scored pretty low on my Math portion of the SAT, but scored significantly higher on the Reading and Writing portions. I expected this to be the case since I was always much more comfortable and better with rhetorical subjects. In the same vein, people have their strengths and weaknesses, which naturally contribute to how well they perform in particular test sections or even tests in general (some people don't do well on tests not because they don't know the material, but simply because they really don't like tests).

I'd write more, but I just feel like posting the gist of my thoughts on your post.

#63
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That's the way of worldly affairs, as it always has been. If you don't like it, as I certainly don't, then there's the otherworldly and the unworldly, there's myth, religion, escapism, sex, Coca-Cola, vibrant anime, card games, sports, drugs, "music", first-person shooters, and walls of utopian drivel.

I liked this post not because I necessarily agree but because reading this part was one of the most trippy experience I've had even with that one time I uh...had some questionable chocolate.

I just have to make sure this isn't lost in what I find a really unusual discussion because holy hell that string of words is beautiful in its own way.

 

Uh...as to not spam I guess I'll also mention that I appreciate one of my Pro-Trump friends who put it quite well. Idk the words for sure but it was something about being able to like some of the things he's done while disagreeing with how he's kinda a shitty person about a lot of things. That's a pretty healthy way of thinking imo.


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#64
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790 on reading, and 770 on writing. I basically missed 3-4 questions on whole exam. Yet a black student who missed 10-15 gets my spot cause my skin color isn't right. If that's not racist, idk what is

I get your point on test taking. But a bad test taking Asian is hurt more than a bad test taking Black or Hispanic

Change one variable and you'll get the same discriminating result I mentioned

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#65
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Uh...as to not spam I guess I'll also mention that I appreciate one of my Pro-Trump friends who put it quite well. Idk the words for sure but it was something about being able to like some of the things he's done while disagreeing with how he's kinda a shitty person about a lot of things. That's a pretty healthy way of thinking imo.

Same.

 

I find Trump to be a shitty president and a genuinely poor human being, but I heavily support his rebuttals against North Korea's blatant threats and his decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem to establish it as Israel's capital.


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#66
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790 on reading, and 770 on writing. I basically missed 3-4 questions on whole exam. Yet a black student who missed 10-15 gets my spot cause my skin color isn't right. If that's not racist, idk what is
I get your point on test taking. But a bad test taking Asian is hurt more than a bad test taking Black or Hispanic
Change one variable and you'll get the same discriminating result I mentioned


Isn't there more to the admissions process than just the SAT score, though? Entrance essays, interviews, GPA, awards won, current skills and accomplishments, extracurricular activities, etc.; I believe all these things contribute to your chances of getting accepted into schools and perhaps even hold more weight than a score alone since they can attest to your efforts and potential. Perhaps a black kid who scored lower got accepted not because of affirmative action, but because they had other things going for them that distinguished them from others. Stuff like that also holds weight outside of school, mind you.

On the note of affirmative action... I'm still not too sure about it myself, honestly. I can see the benefits of it as something that works to give financially disadvantaged people a chance for higher education, but I can also see the harm in it as something that just makes people set dumb diversity quotas and accept people based on that quota as opposed to genuine qualification. I would hope that its the former that's being accomplished overall, and I would also hope that people who actually have potential but who didn't manage to score high on a test are being given a chance as well. You would need to determine that on a case by case basis, since merit can still be earned through other factors.

#67
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Your claim that "To ask why America keeps accepting people from those countries very, very, very heavily implies that there is no perceived worth in anyone immigrating from that country" is false

 

The statement means on average, there a better places to accept people from. The US has an immigration quota, and more importantly it has a domestic population with both economic and cultural needs. 

 

You don't want to accept low skilled workers that might drive down wages, and you don't want to accept people who are culturally incompatible (I'd argue Norway, which the president praised, violates the latter). 

 

So what you're telling me is that it isn't about believing that nobody from that nation has anything of value or worth to give, but that's about the people from that nation having very little of value or worth to provide? I mean, did you read the part where I said there is/and should be a system for immigration to vet and look into anyone that wants to move and become a citizen? Because it sounds like you think that anyone can just legally walk into the country regardless of anything and become a citizen? Please note I said LEGALLY.

 

 

The president also has the full authority to control immigration into the country:

 

“The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty … inherent in the executive power,” the Supreme Court said in 1950. And lest there be doubt, Congress adopted a provision in 1952 saying the president “may by proclamation and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens and any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants” whenever he thinks it “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States

 

He can ban individuals from a certain nation for any reason really (SCOTUS has temp upheld the travel ban, and will issue ruling on it soon)

 

Ayyyy did you read the part where I talked about how you country doesn't have an obligation to accept immigrants from any country but should have good reason to bar an entire nation beyond blind prejudice? Because hoo boy that is a thing I said.

 

 

Your point on diversity is also flawed. Some people think like that sure, but Affirmative action diversity policies will actually focus on getting a woman or minority into a slot focused on quotas instead of qualifications. Like they could discriminate against an asian or white male with a higher score to get the black woman in. 

 

So you don't think historically people of color or even women have had any difficulty at all with getting jobs or into the workplace, earning the same wages, or even the same respect? If companies are and have been always hiring purely and entirely on the basis of qualifications and there never has been anything even close to "institutional racism" to any degree you would be correct. Oh whoops, but looks like history and even the present kind of disagrees a FAIR bit there. Sounds like you're making a lot of assumptions about the hiring process there.

 

 

No we're not. A cripple without thumbs is not capable of the same things a person who does have thumbs is capable of.

 

Buddy I bet you any day that Stephen Hawking has done more and accomplished more than you or I ever will. Dismissing a person or people because you don't think they have any potential or anything to offer is the kinda messed up attitude that leads to a lot of problems in society. There's nothing wrong with giving them a fair chance, and if they do not succeed then they do not succeed. Yeah, of course people with physical disabilities will not be able to do the same things that those who are perfectly able will be able to, but that doesn't mean they're fully capable at doing something else as well if not better. People have the same potential to just as much good and just as much wrong as anyone else. Saying it has to look like the same thing is a pretty silly and ignorant thing to say, don't you think?

 

 

Lotta assumptions in here VCR with little justification. Do better

 

Lotta lack of reading, once again Winter. Do better.

 

 

My last paragraph was mostly a kind of vent made in response to all the comments being made about derogatory name slinging since that reminded me of the double standard I mentioned at the end of my post: “No one seems to care when white people are at the end of some racial joke or remark, but God forbid you talk about nonwhite folk, particularly black people.” (I think I’ll also just add in “discrimination against white people” here since I just now saw affirmative action is being talked about). That in turn reminded me of how people nowadays are so quick to call out racism and people as racists… even though there might not be any real kind of racism or racists involved. I don’t disagree with you that such things should be called out and ended, but first people should make sure that what they think is there is actually there instead of just immediately grabbing the torches and pitchforks; acting like something is there when it isn’t is not going to help anything or anyone, nor will it prevent a problem from happening.

 

Should the problem actually exist in a particular situation, it should also be confined to that particular situation. What I mean by that is to not universally condemn everyone, in this case white people, which seems to be a popular thing nowadays. I know this kind of thing doesn’t have much to do with the issue at hand (though I guess it kind of does), but again, my mention of all this was kind of a vent on the topic.

 

Also, since I brought up the topic of universally condemning people, I expect to be reminded how Trump's comment seems to universally condemn everyone from the countries he was referring to. Keep in mind that I did basically say how universally condemning and barring people from these places would be wrong, and how instead we should seek to sift and accept the good people from the bad.

 

 

There's always going to people that take a certain cause or point too far. There'll be people that take the idea of feminism and take it to a point where the discriminate men. There'll be people that take supporting LGBQ communities to a point where they discriminate cis straight people. There'll be people that take the idea of supporting POC to a point where the discriminate white people. This sort of thing has happened a lot historically, and it will likely keep happening, but this shouldn't mean that a standard of equality shouldn't be strived for. There'll be bad, dumb people everywhere, but it'll be more important to know what your cause is and stick to doing the right thing. Being the guy that advocates against discrimination by discriminating doesn't accomplish anything.

 

For everything else, I get what you're putting down and I understand that it was venting, so don't worry. I don't think you're some raving racist or something like that. I was mostly just addressing the talking points of the vent itself.


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#68
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I heavily support his decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem to establish it as Israel's capital.

 

pfff 


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#69
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Since this has blown up, I'm gonna go ahead and move it to debates.  Feel free to continue discussion but be aware of the rules in place.


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#70
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pfff 

I going to make a guess you have a problem with that?


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#71
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I going to make a guess you have a problem with that?

 

no i'm zionist #FreeIsrael


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#72
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no i'm zionist #FreeIsrael

Okay well now I am genuinely confused. Do you agree with my statement or no?


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#73
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Okay well now I am genuinely confused. Do you agree with my statement or no?

 

Nope. God's chosen people have stolen enough land.


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#74
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Nope. God's chosen people have stolen enough land.

Then you aren't a Zionist. A Zionist supports the state of Israel and it's control of the modern area of Palestine.


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#75
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Then you aren't a Zionist

 

sarcasm


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#76
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sarcasm

You realize we're in the debates section right?


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#77
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You realize we're in the debates section right?

 

Yes, I do.


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#78
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no i'm zionist #FreeIsrael

 

 

Nope. God's chosen people have stolen enough land.

 

 

sarcasm

 

 

Yes, I do.

 

Then you realize you're breaking the rules.  This is your verbal warning.  I won't give you another.  You will be punished.


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#79
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I'm not telling you that actually. It's about statistics, in general, people from Norway are better educated, richer etc. Sure there may be a Haitian who is better educated and richer (using only two measures, but extrapolate out for the case I'm trying to construct here) than a Norwegian, but on average they're not. It has little to do with individuals. POTUS wasn't singling out x from Haiti, but rather talking in broad strokes. In those regards he was objectively not incorrect. 
 
Why should they? Tangent, but that's why I noted the "Muslim Ban," I made the assumption that you and others of similar views would feel that's a banning simply on the prejudice. It's been temporarily upheld and likely will. Disclaimer, I don't agree with that view on the Travel ban. And disclaimer two, this isn't like a ban on prejudice, see P1
 
Since when do two wrongs make a right? I had a guy rip $20 off me last year, I'm going to jail if I get caught ripping $20 off a person today regardless. Yes, there has been sexism and racism. I don't necessarily agree with the existence of Institutional Racism post Jim Crow. But we might have different ideas on what IR consists of. Here's a pretty good discussion on that. It honestly does not matter even if IR exists today. IR in Texas does not justify revered IR in CA. 
 
Again this last para is bunch of garbage designed to strawman: "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument"
 
I'm not denying a disabled person, or a person from central Africa can be more attractive to the US than a person from Norway, I'm saying on avg they are not. You're deliberately characterizing my point on the mean distribution as me saying there is not a single person in the tails who could overlap. 
 
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Norway has a mean of 2, Haiti has a mean of 0. Look at the tails, there are people from Haiti who are more talented than the people from Norway, but on AVG and in most cases, that's simply not true. Stephen Hawkings fits into that green area. But stop pretending every disabled person is Hawkings
 
 
 
Try again

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#80
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I'm not telling you that actually. It's about statistics, in general, people from Norway are better educated, richer etc. Sure there may be a Haitian who is better educated and richer (using only two measures, but extrapolate out for the case I'm trying to construct here) than a Norwegian, but on average they're not. It has little to do with individuals. POTUS wasn't singling out x from Haiti, but rather talking in broad strokes. In those regards he was objectively not incorrect. 
 
Why should they? Tangent, but that's why I noted the "Muslim Ban," I made the assumption that you and others of similar views would feel that's a banning simply on the prejudice. It's been temporarily upheld and likely will. Disclaimer, I don't agree with that view on the Travel ban. And disclaimer two, this isn't like a ban on prejudice, see P1

 

Did you go back and read the part where I talked about how, with a proper immigration process and vetting, it shouldn't matter where someone comes from (outside of exceptions such as war-times or openly hostile nations such as North Korea? And the problem comes in "talking in broad strokes", that's how bad generalizations happen and that's what's happening. If you want to talk nuance, then talk about vetting and maybe choose your arguments and your words so it doesn't sound like you believe the process of immigration works as "Anyone who wants can just hop on a plane and become a citizen". I mean, if that's how it worked you wouldn't have so many illegal immigrants, huh.

 

Also yes, I would classify the "Muslim Ban" as a ban on prejudice. I mean, just look at what it's named. If it wasn't a ban on prejudice, I'm positive the bill itself would look very different, and be named something that doesn't even try to not sound prejudiced at all.

 

 

Since when do two wrongs make a right? I had a guy rip $20 off me last year, I'm going to jail if I get caught ripping $20 off a person today regardless. Yes, there has been sexism and racism. I don't necessarily agree with the existence of Institutional Racism post Jim Crow. But we might have different ideas on what IR consists of. Here's a pretty good discussion on that. It honestly does not matter even if IR exists today. IR in Texas does not justify revered IR in CA. 

 

Two wrongs doesn't make a right, at no point have I ever advocated for discrimination as the solution to discrimination. Have you even been reading what I've been posting?

 

 

 

Again this last para is bunch of garbage designed to strawman: "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument"

 
I'm not denying a disabled person, or a person from central Africa can be more attractive to the US than a person from Norway, I'm saying on avg they are not. You're deliberately characterizing my point on the mean distribution as me saying there is not a single person in the tails who could overlap. 
 
Norway has a mean of 2, Haiti has a mean of 0. Look at the tails, there are people from Haiti who are more talented than the people from Norway, but on AVG and in most cases, that's simply not true. Stephen Hawkings fits into that green area. But stop pretending every disabled person is Hawkings

 

Again this last paragraph is a bunch of garbage designed to strawman where you say I'm pretending that every disabled person is Hawkings and not at all like I spent time talking about how people should be given an equal chance and opportunity.

 

If you want to keep this up, you should start reading what I'm posting and taking it into consideration instead of trying to feed me a narrative that generalizations become true for every person from a place. If you want to be the person who's preaching nuance, you should try it for yourself and realize that individual persons are not defined by averages or statistics. Once again, back to my talking point that you've never read or considered where I talk about an immigration process being a lot more complicated than just letting anyone in willy-nilly and how, with proper vetting, it doesn't matter where a person is from within reason.

 

Either spend the time to read and understand what I'm saying, or quit wasting my time.


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