Site Changes Discussion

[vla1ne]

Control and profit.  Imagine what it's like to have someone go behind your back to alter anything you own.  No matter the outcome, this is interference with your personal property.  You didn't ask for this, you didn't want this, but it was done without your say or confirmation.

that's a fair point, but what about said changes are negative from that point of view? control, is a strong point, but wouldn't profit be better off from tormented's actions?

 

 

No, that is not why it is a dick move. It is a dick move to hack into a site or operate it without the owner's permission to do so. It doesn't matter if we do it for no cost or anything, but we did a shitty thing, too. It is a dick move to do a lot of things, but we done nothing in the right of anything but the people who use the forum.

 

Who knows, maybe what we are doing is holding back growth of the site. We don't have numbers or data, so impartial thoughts mean very little to what helps this site or not.

 

You guys are only in the sentiment of making this site better for the people who use it, and maybe bring in others. But this isn't doing anything but that, since we are revitalizing the site for our own gain.

 

YCMaker is just a person who owns a site and gets something from it. There is no obligation to make the site anything than it already is. If we think that he has obligations to us, we're as shitty people for making it mean that this site being an important avenue on his own right. We are instilling are use of this site to the importance that he deems it. Maybe, this site is just a source of money. I would love that and hate anyone who messes with my s***.

 

We has happened is great, but we're not better or worse for doing it. You don't own a website, but if you're getting money from one, shouldn't that be a good thing and anyone who gets in the way of that means that those people are terrible? This isn't his life, it is a side swing that has profit. It doesn't have to mean anything to YCMaker, nor should it.

 

We are not entitled to this site. Stop pulling your own s*** and acting like we are. YCMaker doesn't have to do anything for us, nor should we think that he should.

agreed that it's a dick move to go behind his back, but considering his presence is right next to 0, and he has yet to say anything about using or not altering the site, (which would be a common courtesy, at the very least.), i'm going to have to say we did nothing right or wrong here, (which is something that i haven't actually argued for, i'm arguing for improvements of the forum, which could be seen as a net bonus, and has yet to be demonstrated as a minus of any form).

 

what is it holding back though? that goes back to the common courtesy rule, if anything being done was actively holding back the site, then i'd be fine with him saying "shut it down". i might ask why, but i'd at least have words, but instead, we get this, which is a clear indication that he doesn't want the site altered, but gives nothing in the way of actual hints as to what is and isn't good for the site, which is something that would be extremely helpful for both him and us.

 

 

and what is there about revitalizing the site, that makes it an unattractive prospect? by any business standard anywhere, what exactly is bad about that? as far as we knew, we were doing good, but this route of action neither confirms nor denies that, it merely stops it.

 

no there isn't obligation to make it better, but that's no reason to let it get worse, or stop people from making it better. no, i don't think he has obligations, but i do believe it would be simpler for him, and for us, if he actually said what he'd prefer, instead of shutting down any actions with no explanation. you know, basic communication? sure, i wouldn't want people to mess with my s***, but in any case, and especially this case, wouldn't you look into said actions, and see if they were doing good or bad for the site? and respond accordingly? what about this is negative? that's what i'm asking. he doesn't have to answer, but not doing so solves even less for him than it does for us. (though it may frustrate us more than it does him)

 

no, we aren't, but who said we are? not me, i simply ask for reasons, to make things better overall. do you have any reason why giving reasons is to be frowned upon?

[Sunshine Jesse]

YCMaker is literally just the dad who gets upset when people touch his thermostat.

[Dad]

YCMaker is literally just the dad who gets upset when people touch his thermostat.

 

Don't use my name in vain.

 

 

that's a fair point, but what about said changes are negative from that point of view? control, is a strong point, but wouldn't profit be better off from tormented's actions?

 

 

I would hope so, but I fear that for YCMaker this is more about the site being his personal property and the fear of losing control of his profit stream for a few tweaks and changes that we lowly peasants asked for.

[Simping For Hina]

I am not saying what we are doing is making the site worse or better. I am saying that there is no proof to that argument, and any evidence is circumstantial. We are not actively making the site better for newer people to come without proof of activity being increased. "As far as we know, we were doing good". There is no way to confirm or deny. The point of interest is nothing more than is the site better or worse for us, because we are the ones who are the vocal point of that.

 

I am also not arguing against making this site better. YCMaker doesn't have to do anything, we can expect him to if we want, but this is just property. YCMaker doesn't have to nor in the end should he, expect from our own desire for him to.

 

His silence to people using the site and messing with it is not a proper statement to the justification of doing what we please. As much as I love the changes, and revel in them, it is still a mess where communication would clear things up, but doesn't need to be done. If we were spending money on this site, that is a different atmosphere.

We are using this on our own free time in our own pleasure. We are not obligated to get anything from YCMaker but the ability to do that, as that is exactly what we put in to it in the end.

[Blake]

Let's put it like this.

We're in this for "good" reasons. We want the site to be a better place. We want to enjoy it more. Make it nicer.

 

He's in it for "bad" reasons. $10k/year or so. Not putting any effort in. 

 

However, this makes us, at the very best, Robin Hood-esque. We're doing things that fall between morally grey and straight-up wrong in attempts to fix and improve the site.

 

He is, for all intents and purposes, in the right. He's merely protecting his source of revenue, even if it does come with negligence. He's in the right, here.

 

It funking sucks. It absolutely does. But we're the "bad guys" from the getgo, and we don't have a leg to stand on.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If that were the case black, he could have made a post, not logged on for a few minutes, done bullshit, and then run

[Simping For Hina]

Let's put it like this.

 

We're in this for "good" reasons. We want the site to be a better place. We want to enjoy it more. Make it nicer.

 

He's in it for "bad" reasons. $10k/year or so. Not putting any effort in. 

 

However, this makes us, at the very best, Robin Hood-esque. We're doing things that fall between morally grey and straight-up wrong in attempts to fix and improve the site.

 

He is, for all intents and purposes, in the right. He's merely protecting his source of revenue, even if it does come with negligence. He's in the right, here.

 

It funking sucks. It absolutely does. But we're the "bad guys" from the getgo, and we don't have a leg to stand on.

I appreciate your ability to put it into better terms. I'm not good with concision on my words, never have been.

If that were the case black, he could have made a post, not logged on for a few minutes, done bullshit, and then run

"Could have" doesn't mean that he "has to".

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

At this point I'm mostly focused on making sure nothing else gets broken and the forum doesn't entirely get taken down, to be perfectly honest.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Nobody HAS to do anything Dae. It's the polite thing to do. He made a huge deal about trying to start a YCM Newspaper and foster the community. Kinda a volte face to pull this move

 

@ Is this what you meant by betrayal yesterday?

At this point I'm mostly focused on making sure nothing else gets broken and the forum doesn't entirely get taken down, to be perfectly honest.

I think the site looks good TBH, we have a ton of options now. We can change subsections, and making reforms like Broken has been doing is sweet. 

 

The mod team has done really well recently with the elections, and I think you and Black are doing a wonderful job. As is broken.

 

Striker and DOVA are working on the card maker and Striker mentioned hosting it elsewhere so YCM can't log in and funk it easily

 

There's a lot we can do without look and feel

Basically, "seconded"

[Blake]

If that were the case black, he could have made a post, not logged on for a few minutes, done bullshit, and then run

And why are we entitled to such?

 

As said, we're like Robin Hood, and that's pushing it. Having a noble goal doesn't mean that our actions were correct.

 

I'm not condeming the actions we took. Merely pointing out that they are, in fact, the ones that are objectively "incorrect".

 

 

You can make the case that such is actually just. That we are, in fact, the heroes. Robin Hood, as it were. However, you must consider that, would this make it to any form of higher judgment, we would absolutely be in the wrong and be punished.

 

The peasant's hero is the king's villain.

 

No, this has funking nothing to do with my borderline breakdown.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Honestly, if I was YCMaker and saw Tormey changing up the site, and then making a joke about cutting off my ad revenue with thunderous applause, I'd cut the cord too.

[Simping For Hina]

Nobody HAS to do anything Dae. It's the polite thing to do. He made a huge deal about trying to start a YCM Newspaper and foster the community. Kinda a volte face to pull this move

 

YCMaker made a huge deal of doing that? This is something I am trying to articulate. We see what he did as a bigger deal than it is to him, and he has input and focuses on other places. It is polite to be more apparent, but we are asking for him to put his time here and demanding he does something for us. As a person who does try to run a bunch of different metrics of side points and interests, they all take a back seat to my life and are not deserving of my time as everything else it. We are making everything YCMaker does a bigger image than it actually is, putting our own speculation on him because of what he does.

 

This site at the end of the day is nothing but a means to gain some more money. I would love a place where I just gain money and don't have to worry about, but also get worried when the community of such try to change that, especially since I wouldn't know what that group is or what their ulterior motive his. We are just random people.

 

While it would be nice to get to know YCMaker or at least have YCMaker do more, there isn't any reason for him to do so and any thing that goes against his surface knowledge of what this site should mandate is a red flag that should be fixed right away. YCMaker isn't putting in enough money for this to be a job, it is not a place for anything but gaining money from. YCMaker has a life, has things that are more deserving of his time. From our standpoint, he is just an admin, but he isn't just that.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Honestly, if I was YCMaker and saw Tormey changing up the site, and then making a joke about cutting off my ad revenue with thunderous applause, I'd cut the cord too.

Lesson learned, don't make threats you don't follow through on

[vla1ne]

I would hope so, but I fear that for YCMaker this is more about the site being his personal property and the fear of losing control of his profit stream for a few tweaks and changes that we lowly peasants asked for.

if that's the case, then that sucks. i'd like to talk to the guy myself just to see what kind of person he is, but i doubt that's gonna happen.

 

I am not saying what we are doing is making the site worse or better. I am saying that there is no proof to that argument, and any evidence is circumstantial. We are not actively making the site better for newer people to come without proof of activity being increased. "As far as we know, we were doing good". There is no way to confirm or deny. The point of interest is nothing more than is the site better or worse for us, because we are the ones who are the vocal point of that.

 

I am also not arguing against making this site better. YCMaker doesn't have to do anything, we can expect him to if we want, but this is just property. YCMaker doesn't have to nor in the end should he, expect from our own desire for him to.

 

His silence to people using the site and messing with it is not a proper statement to the justification of doing what we please. As much as I love the changes, and revel in them, it is still a mess where communication would clear things up, but doesn't need to be done. If we were spending money on this site, that is a different atmosphere.

We are using this on our own free time in our own pleasure. We are not obligated to get anything from YCMaker but the ability to do that, as that is exactly what we put in to it in the end.

increased activity would take time to figure out, as would decreased activity, i'd at least like to have time for the changes to be in place enough to show proper results, if that's the case. i get why he wouldn't, fearing lost profits and all that, but considering the locals define the place, an easier to navigate site, with locals who are no longer eternally complaining about YCMaker never fixing whatever gets broken, would seem like a definite positive to me.

 

if i've learned anything about YCMaker in my time here, it's that i shouldn't expect him to do anything, which is what makes this more annoying, he doesn't have to do anything, but for whatever reason, whenever he does anything, it's to prevent attempts at improvement. what i would like, short of his regular presence, is for him to either say for finality's sake, outright never to touch anything, so we don't wrongly build false hopes, or to actively remain gone, so that we can handle issues and improvements on our own. either of which would be beneficial simply for communication's sake, but neither of which has a chance of happening.

 

would we not like communication though? that's the point here, yes, it's in our own free time, but we still remain patrons of the site. is wanting to make the site better, for ourselves and other visitors so wrong that we can't even want it? i don't believe so, and that makes the apparent refusal by YCMaker to even talk about what he'd like, more frustrating. who here wouldn't be happy to help make the site better? but the top seat, refuses to do so, and prevents anybody else for doing so either, but only sporadically.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Lesson learned, don't make threats you don't follow through on

Funny thing is, Crab made the same mistake.

 

When Crab did a cloning of the YCMaker admin account, he joked with others about "banning YCMaker or taking away his privileges", unsurprisingly YCMaker regained control and banned him.

 

This seems to happen a lot on here, every time we gain control of the Admin area to make some changes, our pent up displeasure of YCMaker's policies erupts and we make a snarky comment, then sit with a thumb up our ass surprised YCMaker didn't let us keep the permissions.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Funny thing is, Crab made the same mistake.

 

When Crab did a cloning of the YCMaker admin account, he joked with others about "banning YCMaker or taking away his privileges", unsurprisingly YCMaker regained control and banned him.

 

This seems to happen a lot on here, every time we gain control of the Admin area to make some changes, our pent up displeasure of YCMaker's policies erupts and we make a snarky comment, then sit with a thumb up our ass surprised YCMaker didn't let us keep the permissions.

Crab isn't banned

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/user/9-crabhelmet/

 

He got demoted. There's almost certainly a way to get Admin powers again. I don't know if we'd need it till we get the cardmaker v2 though 

[Blake]

Crab isn't banned

He was.

 

He has since been unbanned by the mod team, but he definitely was stripped and banned posthaste.

 

Some moderators wanted to unban him on the spot, others did not. It was a decent bit before the unban happened.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Crab isn't banned

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/user/9-crabhelmet/

 

He got demoted 

No, he was banned, then unbanned by Mods.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No, he was banned, then unbanned by Mods.

Ah, well what we can do now is change subsections and policies to help foster activity. And just go along with striker till the Cardmaker v2 is up.

 

Might also be a good idea to try to get old members to come back. 

[Sunshine Jesse]

Crab isn't banned

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/user/9-crabhelmet/

 

He got demoted. There's almost certainly a way to get Admin powers again. I don't know if we'd need it till we get the cardmaker v2 though 

Legend has it that if you type the exact stats and picture of YCMaker's favorite card into the card maker, you're gifted with admin powers.

[Simping For Hina]

if that's the case, then that sucks. i'd like to talk to the guy myself just to see what kind of person he is, but i doubt that's gonna happen.

 

increased activity would take time to figure out, as would decreased activity, i'd at least like to have time for the changes to be in place enough to show proper results, if that's the case. i get why he wouldn't, fearing lost profits and all that, but considering the locals define the place, an easier to navigate site, with locals who are no longer eternally complaining about YCMaker never fixing whatever gets broken, would seem like a definite positive to me.

 

if i've learned anything about YCMaker in my time here, it's that i shouldn't expect him to do anything, which is what makes this more annoying, he doesn't have to do anything, but for whatever reason, whenever he does anything, it's to prevent attempts at improvement. what i would like, short of his regular presence, is for him to either say for finality's sake, outright never to touch anything, so we don't wrongly build false hopes, or to actively remain gone, so that we can handle issues and improvements on our own. either of which would be beneficial simply for communication's sake, but neither of which has a chance of happening.

 

would we not like communication though? that's the point here, yes, it's in our own free time, but we still remain patrons of the site. is wanting to make the site better, for ourselves and other visitors so wrong that we can't even want it? i don't believe so, and that makes the apparent refusal by YCMaker to even talk about what he'd like, more frustrating. who here wouldn't be happy to help make the site better? but the top seat, refuses to do so, and prevents anybody else for doing so either, but only sporadically.

But that is what I am trying to bring up as "entitlement". We are arguing the semantics of our own desire of YCMaker and what we draw from him. There is nothing wrong or right about what wanting things from YCMaker, but expecting them is wrong. We do not have the information that he has available. I am not saying that there are not ways to obtain it. My ideas are abstract, as are the premises are obtaining them.

 

The use of this is subjective relativity to our own demeanor and desire, while granting possiblies to present them in another focus if someone took upon the chance. Consider yourself a patron, sure, but the level of which we support YCMaker is miniscule, and we're just seen as 0.01% of support. Wanting is fine, go for it. Wanting, in a rational form, is nothing but hope and recognition under the premise of which we can manage. Expecting what we are doing, in an objective manner, being right is not in anything but wrong.

 

It would be better if YCMaker talked more or not talked at all. But, oh well, he talks and then does nothing. I have been there, and so has everyone here, making promises and not keeping them. To the person that we made the promise to, it is a lot bigger than it is to the one who promised and forgot. Habitually, it is consistent to us, since we are the ones who only see YCMaker the moments he makes those promises.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

Ah, well what we can do now is change subsections and policies to help foster activity. And just go along with striker till the Cardmaker v2 is up.

 

Might also be a good idea to try to get old members to come back. 

The bottom line is this:

 

The card game Yu-Gi-Oh! is dying.

 

Konami's insistence on adding ridiculous new card types while also completely cluttering the meta with specific defined archetypes, preventing diversity in the game itself, has drove away a massive portion of the YGO fanbase. Not to mention a lot of old fans got old (Pun not intended) and don't care about the game anymore.

 

Plus, the cardmaker itself (the sole reason people came to this site) is completely rendered obsolete by superior programs like Gimp and MSE.

 

This sites slow decay isn't going to change unless people go back to playing the game again.

[Dad]

Ah, well what we can do now is change subsections and policies to help foster activity. And just go along with striker till the Cardmaker v2 is up.

 

Might also be a good idea to try to get old members to come back. 

 

That's no longer an option.  YCMaker changed the access to the coding and now, updating the Cardmaker is completely at his disposal.  At this time, there will be no Cardmaker V2.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's no longer an option.  YCMaker changed the access to the coding and now, updating the Cardmaker is completely at his disposal.  At this time, there will be no Cardmaker V2.

Striker is hosting is without using PHP files from YCMaker

 

It's the same as creating a new bar at the top of the forum

 

We're no worse off than we were 3 weeks ago

[Blake]

The bottom line is this:

 

The card game Yu-Gi-Oh! is dying.

 

Konami's insistence on adding ridiculous new card types while also completely cluttering the meta with specific defined archetypes, preventing diversity in the game itself, has drove away a massive portion of the YGO fanbase. Not to mention a lot of old fans got old (Pun not intended) and don't care about the game anymore.

 

Plus, the cardmaker itself (the sole reason people came to this site) is completely rendered obsolete by superior programs like Gimp and MSE.

 

This sites slow decay isn't going to change unless people go back to playing the game again.

But... it's plain not dying.

 

Arc-V was an incredible high point for the game in both sales and game balance, compared to previous eras. Vrains has issues, but it's still selling, especially with the power cards hitting recently.

 

The decay of YCM is due to negligence and community issues, though the latter is being handled more now.