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[Discussion] The Value of Points


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#21
Dova

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Ah, alright. So perhaps the best approach for TCG would be to pretty much copy CC's point system (post-threadmaking redemption), since in its current form, Winter, who posts the most threads there, seems to be doing worse than CCers (for example, Dova has like 3 million to Winter's 130k. Not sure if either have been spending lots of points but I still highly doubt Dova has put in ~23x the effort Winter has into this forum in its entirety). I imagine other TCG posters are even worse off.

 

Just want to say that I have no idea where at least 3 million of my points came from. Most of the rest of it I got from tournaments, cashing in reviews, a lot of CC posts etc. but the main portion I just found on my account during/after Halloween 2016. I remember logging on in November and suddenly noticing I had a couple million points, and had absolutely no idea where they came from.

I don't mind if they're removed; I would've only used it for competition rewards anyway.

 

 

I really can't think of anything else to do with points on a forum, but cutting off a lot of them is a start for opening up those doors.

 

Perhaps a form of consultation for RPs and such? Problem with that is that people are too nice and help anyway, so scratch that. Now, if only we had a custom format...



#22
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Just want to say that I have no idea where at least 3 million of my points came from. Most of the rest of it I got from tournaments, cashing in reviews, a lot of CC posts etc. but the main portion I just found on my account during/after Halloween 2016. I remember logging on in November and suddenly noticing I had a couple million points, and had absolutely no idea where they came from.

I don't mind if they're removed; I would've only used it for competition rewards anyway.

 

 

I really can't think of anything else to do with points on a forum, but cutting off a lot of them is a start for opening up those doors.

 

Perhaps a form of consultation for RPs and such? Problem with that is that people are too nice and help anyway, so scratch that. Now, if only we had a custom format...

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#23
Usami Rainko

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regardless of ease of acquisition points wont matter until there's more things to use them on. right now, the only major things i can think of are member groups, and the problem with that is that they are pretty expensive (perma groups are 40k, temp ones are like 10k or something idk, and monthly maintenance costs were 1k which is more accessible). it means that points gained from a small number of posts mean fairly little and unless you're willing to let your points sit and accumulate, they have little to no value.

 

as mentioned earlier the gfx section exists but it's not very alive, and the people who make gfx themselves don't have a lot of incentive to gain points since again, their usage is so limited.

 

fix the shop and make more items with more functionality. unlocking new ycm themes through points could be one. maybe get rid of free name changes altogether? it might be way too restrictive but maybe, making misc threads/posts actually costs points? it'd be an interesting form of quality control at least. i cant think of many uses yet but i'm sure someone else can come up with more. the main point is that there needs to be more things you can do with points, this is more important than how easy/difficult it is to gain them.


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#24
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We need to see if the shop can be fixed from Tormey's end before addressing any of the new items. Make sure that it can actually give you the item instead of sapping points for nothing. I also mentioned the lottery function, but that's dependent on making the shop module work again (outside of quick donations).

 

Adding new themes with points could be a thing, but would require having to work it into the system. Closest we can get right now is just have the themes available to a certain group, you pay us money to get access to it and then we add it as a secondary.

 

Charging for Misc posts could work, but I don't know if IP.Boards has a plugin that can charge people money to post in particular forums. Right now, we can technically restrict posting/viewing in areas based on minimum post count, but that's it. Also might sap activity a bit.

 

(IDK, maybe it could be possible to set negative point gains for a section; that might be a workaround, but it hasn't been tested.)

 

I don't know if this would be possible, but is some sort of points to real world money exchange system worth considering?

 
Given the fluctuating amounts of different currencies, probably no. Also the matter of "who's going to be paying for it?"
 
A general reminder to all of you that the staff aren't getting paid to run this place / have external expenses for our own lives to handle. So yeah, it is out of the question right now, as with any real life products.
 

Ah, alright. So perhaps the best approach for TCG would be to pretty much copy CC's point system (post-threadmaking redemption), since in its current form, Winter, who posts the most threads there, seems to be doing worse than CCers (for example, Dova has like 3 million to Winter's 130k. Not sure if either have been spending lots of points but I still highly doubt Dova has put in ~23x the effort Winter has into this forum in its entirety). I imagine other TCG posters are even worse off.
 

 
You'd have to take it up with Broken as to how the thing should be set up for the section, if he's willing to do this. For TCG, that would probably have to be something related to posting quality in the area (did you at least provide something to build a healthy discussion on for each thread) or being helpful with rulings / Deck building, etc. I can't speak of what kind of things he would make up for grabs here. 
 
Note that I'm only talking about the Yugioh portion of the TCG area; Flame would be the one you'd talk to about implementing it for the Other TCG part.


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#25
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What if you could pay points to unlock more emojis? Like this type  :Snoop Dogg:  :444820_key:  :526092_key:

 

or what about different fonts? 



#26
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That would be an option, but again, would need to fix the Shop first and then see if it can be worked in. (Or find a workaround, because last time I checked, emoji/smilies aren't locked to certain groups)

 

Oh and speaking of which (on an unrelated topic), some of you wanted to import Discord emotes here. Probably could make a folder of them exclusive (you pay to get access to them), but again, needs to be checked.


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#27
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So firstly, I've been curious about this for the longest time (and I've been here on YCM since 2008 and I never figured this out): what economy exactly? If you could please elaborate on this for me (and possibly others around here) that would be greatly appreciative.

 

Now, onto the points I wanted to make:

 

Broken could try to work out something for his area (and guess Flame if Other TCG can pull up something in there).

  • Probably reward you guys for having quality discussions in there or something (i.e. give good critique on a user's Deck that helps them)

I wanted to address this specifically first. This is quite subjective in terms of a User's views on their own vision of an end game deck. We can use me and my HEROs for an example. I would want to make a pure HERO deck and utilize it in certain formats. However, another user comes in and completely destroys my vision and tries to force a HERO engine deck style on me. Things like this could escalate in a bad manner and where we'd get arguments and the like for this.

 

I understand that good critiques are always good, but we need to state that if a user wants to utilize their vision of decks that they can and not start an argument regarding them. Or in the thread they post, perhaps say that they wish this to be a certain way, this way we can have user's make suggestions that coincide with that vision.

 

 

For Intros, I could probably give brand new members who make intro and stick around for a week or so a little bonus for coming here.

  • You know, because our new member retention rate isn't really good, and we'd like to keep fresh blood here for the long run.
  • There are other factors that contribute to them not sticking around that are beyond our control, but that's saved for another discussion.

This actually isn't a bad idea. This would actually encourage users and members to stay active and get more involved with the site.

 

 

Aix had a redemption thing for RPs at the time, but think that was dropped later.

  • IDK if Zai would be willing to re-implement this for RP to spur activity in there. Might also be good for Fanfics.

I'd like to put in a voice against a return of the RP cash-in thread. Given how RPs are starting to become more resilient (for lack of a better term), it's all the more likely that once the thread gets use down the line, RP will become an economy-breaking section. The Grand Crossover RP has over 2,000 replies at present and still hasn't ended yet, so when it does end, the point reward for doing so will have to either be decent but with the payoff for other RPs being negligible, or the GCRP alone will pump more points into the economy than the mod forum did until just recently.

 

There's also the issue with RPs that constitute multiple threads (Cherry Heart is the only example right now). What determines when those end, and how does one calculate how many replies it had? All the threads, or just the main one?

 

Not sure on any economic plans for other sections, but I just wanted to come in to point out that bringing back the RP cash-in thread in particular is an awful idea. Not that anyone ever used it while it was around, so the thing won't actually do anything, unless it does, in which case RP will rapidly become the 1% down the line when a lot of the longer-lasting RPs come to a close.

 

Although, this is more something that should be discussed in RP itself, so I'll drop it there.

To this, I disagree to the RP-Cash In. I will actually put a vote to bring it back.

 

RP projects such as GCRP (which has been going for quite a bit of time) may not be eligible for this in my opinion. It's been trying to end for quite a bit of time and we've pushed it to this point right now. The Cash-In for that project would be quite a bit...and to be honest, it wouldn't be fair to any of the other more recent threads, who've actually been struggling to get to the point they've gotten to at this current time.

 

This Cash-In thread gives the RPers there in the RP section something to look forward to when they reach the end of their RPs. It's a bit of a reward for completing an RP, a feat which hasn't been done in quite the long time. It also gives the users a bit of an aspiration to try and be one of the many RPs to enter the Hall of Fame of RPs Ending. So giving them this wouldn't hurt. Have them aim for the stars with this.



#28
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@Chaos Sonic:

 

YCM Economy is basically: How you can get points, the amount obtained per post and possible things you can currently spend your points on. That stickied thread in this section is outdated quite a bit, and needs to be modified.

 

As I already said before though, any point redemption things outside Custom Cards (and Intros, since that's one of my areas) are in the hands of the mods in charge of those particular areas. They're not guaranteed to happen.

 

TCG

 

This would be up to Broken to decide how to work out, but presumably he should set some guidelines as to how redemption points are factored. Decks were mentioned as an example; I'm not too certain on how this would apply for the general card discussion (or banlists). 

 

- Did you contribute properly to the discussion? (Doesn't mean you have to be a master of the metagame to get points, but just say stuff on topic or is relevant to the subject matter.)

- Are you respectful towards other members and their ideas? (For your case, be mindful of what the TC wants to do and not be pushy about playing it a certain way.)

 

The actual criteria may vary, but these are some possible standards that may be used to determine any reward values. 

 

Introductions

 

It's a start to try getting more members to stick around, but there's other factors that need to be addressed too if we're to retain more new members. Part of it might be to fix the cardmaker and other bugs. Another is to fix our overall mentalities (show that we can be sociable and welcoming). 

 

Would need to figure out an appropriate requirement / scale to work with.

 

RP

 

With that particular one, either the redemption points have to be cut down significantly for it OR exclude it. It is technically unfair to those of you in that one, yes, though smaller ones shouldn't be penalized because of this.

 

Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't actively went in an RP here since 2011 (that may change, depending on time and interest). I just look at the index for the area; not actually read the content of the RPs. 

 

====

In any case, we still have access to the point system and stuff at the moment. As for Mitcher's idea, it is possible to set negative point values for a section, but hasn't been tested (if it will decrease your points). 

====

 

P.S. I think the Lottery thing is working now, so...there's another outlet.

nvm


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#29
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I'd like to put in a voice against a return of the RP cash-in thread. Given how RPs are starting to become more resilient (for lack of a better term), it's all the more likely that once the thread gets use down the line, RP will become an economy-breaking section. The Grand Crossover RP has over 2,000 replies at present and still hasn't ended yet, so when it does end, the point reward for doing so will have to either be decent but with the payoff for other RPs being negligible, or the GCRP alone will pump more points into the economy than the mod forum did until just recently.

 

There's also the issue with RPs that constitute multiple threads (Cherry Heart is the only example right now). What determines when those end, and how does one calculate how many replies it had? All the threads, or just the main one?

 

Not sure on any economic plans for other sections, but I just wanted to come in to point out that bringing back the RP cash-in thread in particular is an awful idea. Not that anyone ever used it while it was around, so the thing won't actually do anything, unless it does, in which case RP will rapidly become the 1% down the line when a lot of the longer-lasting RPs come to a close.

 

Although, this is more something that should be discussed in RP itself, so I'll drop it there.

 

And I'd like to disagree with you. First of all, yes, RPs are coming back. But if you think they're ending any time soon, you're crazy. Most die before they ever get to the end, so those that do should get some reward. Make it like, 100-500 points for every page to everyone who was in the RP until the end, which really should only take a person looking over the last three pages, or even better, the host listing the people who should get points.

Also, use common sense with things like Cherry Heart. You know that it means the whole rp, not a small branch. With The Grand Crossover RP, you know that's an exception, not a rule. It's been going on for almost 5 years. Are you saying such commitment shouldn't be rewarded?

 

YCM Economy is basically: How you can get points, the amount obtained per post and possible things you can currently spend your points on.

 
Okay, this gets me. We're not a government or a kingdom. Our Economy isn't that important. Oh no, there are too many points! Now EVERYONE can name change or get in a member group! The horror! Everything will collapse if we don't regulate name changes. 

 

You all are making this harder than it needs to be. I shouldn't be punished because I'm not interested in card making, or rewarded because I am. Yes, we are called Yugioh Card Maker, but that is not all we are. Just make a flat value for every post. Like 100 points for every post. Except mod posts. They get none. Why?

Because they can modify points. They don't NEED it. At all. 


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#30
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1 And I'd like to disagree with you. First of all, yes, RPs are coming back. But if you think they're ending any time soon, you're crazy. Most die before they ever get to the end, so those that do should get some reward. Make it like, 100-500 points for every page to everyone who was in the RP until the end, which really should only take a person looking over the last three pages, or even better, the host listing the people who should get points.

2 Also, use common sense with things like Cherry Heart. You know that it means the whole rp, not a small branch. With The Grand Crossover RP, you know that's an exception, not a rule. It's been going on for almost 5 years. Are you saying such commitment shouldn't be rewarded?

 

 
3 Okay, this gets me. We're not a government or a kingdom. Our Economy isn't that important. Oh no, there are too many points! Now EVERYONE can name change or get in a member group! The horror! Everything will collapse if we don't regulate name changes. 

 

4 You all are making this harder than it needs to be. I shouldn't be punished because I'm not interested in card making, or rewarded because I am. Yes, we are called Yugioh Card Maker, but that is not all we are. Just make a flat value for every post. Like 100 points for every post. Except mod posts. They get none. Why?

5 Because they can modify points. They don't NEED it. At all. 

1. something like 100 points per page sounds good to me tbh. If Gijinka ended right now that'd be like 125,000 points per person, and it's like...idk, half over?

2. Also agreed

3. Not agreed. At least not with the overall message. The thing is just to make sure that there isn't too easy a way for people to get them that's not available to others.

4. That leads to the "Points don't matter" camp which I don't agree with. I want there to be some level of it meaning something and 100 points per post is a bit much.

For the record, RP gets 50 points per post as is.

5. Uhh...I think there's no point turning off points for individuals and idek if that's a thing that can happen, seems a hassle for something that doesn't matter. The issue was that when the mod forum gave huge amounts because of lack of hindsight of the idea of mods leaving the mod team.


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#31
Kill Son Goku

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1. something like 100 points per page sounds good to me tbh. If Gijinka ended right now that'd be like 125,000 points per person, and it's like...idk, half over?
2. Also agreed
3. Not agreed. At least not with the overall message. The thing is just to make sure that there isn't too easy a way for people to get them that's not available to others.
4. That leads to the "Points don't matter" camp which I don't agree with. I want there to be some level of it meaning something and 100 points per post is a bit much.
For the record, RP gets 50 points per post as is.
5. Uhh...I think there's no point turning off points for individuals and idek if that's a thing that can happen, seems a hassle for something that doesn't matter. The issue was that when the mod forum gave huge amounts because of lack of hindsight of the idea of mods leaving the mod team.

1. Confirmation we're in for more good times.

2. Glad we agree.

3. I'm not sure I have a comment here. Let me organize my thoughts for an answer.

4. At 100 points a post it's still 30 posts for a name change and 400 for a permanent member group. If you wanna do 50 that's 60 for a name change and 800 for a pmg. Maybe I am being too lenient because I pretty much post in RP only.

5. I meant points for posting in the mod section. Posting everywhere else, I'd still was thinking of them getting points. Sorry that wasn't clear.

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#32
Yui

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So, it's been a good few days. Any word on where the team plans to go with points and such?


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#33
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Economy-type stuff

 

I'm working on stuff for Intros in terms of amounts, so that much is certain. CC might not change much in terms of values as they're pretty generous right about now in terms of redemption.

 

TCG may get the posting values increased, but not any redemption type thing. You need to talk to Broke. N about it for more specifics, but summarizing his words, it's hard to reward posting in that area given the nature of discussion in there.

 

RP ideas at the moment is basically 100 points per page to each of the active members in an RP when it concludes. You can thank Cow for this one, and think he did take into account the Grand Crossover one (which should be an exception, rather than the standard). Nothing on Fanfics.

 

Graphics may get something if you guys show interest in posting stuff regularly, and if someone wants to revitalize the area. This hasn't been decided.

 

Clubs getting an economy type thing is dependent on an actual plan for C&O. Dad wants to add something, but still figuring out how to best work through it.

 

 

(At the moment, we can't give any definitive answers on this because some things haven't been worked out.)

 

Points overall

 

We're trying to find other things for you to spend points on, but that depends on the shop getting fixed first. There is a lottery function, but it's currently busted (you can buy tickets, but it won't add them to your inventory / add to the pot) and will charge you for 3x whatever you bought [least from what happened when testing].

 

Same with the idea of giving you guys access to different themes and so forth with payment; a workaround needs to be found given the limitations on the shop, and if it is possible to do it.

 

 

In case members missed the memo on this, the mod forum no longer gives millions of points every time we post in there (and is set to standard values; 25 for threads, 10 for replies). This has been the case for the past week or so.


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#34
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Bring back YCM Stock Exchange, then points will have value again.

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