Spirit already have SS-able counterpart before in form of Yamato-no-Kami. but kinda like Qliphorth did to Tribute Summoning (which also part of their problem) Spirit need a consistent way to field monster and keep them. preferably a summon on opponent turn. so the brand new Pendulum Spirit is nice to have as an engine for it
Toon is a mix bag tbh, there more than 1 version of Toon Monster and each of them has an edge over the others. i think the approach should be taking each best point of each version and incorporated it into "True Toon". they do need a consistent Tribute fodder for both Normal Summons and Special Summon like Class-B toon generically speaking
on the topic of obscure Summon and Gimmick. Konami is often missing the point on Flip Summon and FLIP Monster as a whole. Shaddoll is a failed experiment, Subterror is decent but not really push them to relevance (although is surprisingly better than Shinobirds and Chemicritter fare). they probably need a generic version of self-flip effect like Big Shield Gardna to amp-up their speed
Thank you for expanding the discussion into Toons,Spirits, and Flips. I've never made Toon monsters but their mechanics did seem a little broken at first, but they aren't easy to play and that is their downfall. Assuming you've made Toon monsters or became interested in making them, do you think the implementation of your changes will affect the balance of the cards? Also, how would you make the SS/NS more consistent? Cont. effects/Spells/Traps? Or additional internal mechanics?
Ideas I have for improvement:
Geminis: Treated as Normals including in the hand, Deck and banished, pretty much anywhere as long as they aren't "Gemini Summoned". That would give them access to so much Normal support, namely Rescue Rabbit, Unexpected Dai.
Unions: Equippable from hand. More support to equip them during either player's turn. "Floating" effects as Sakura pointed out, and that don't miss timing like Machina Peacekeeper does, are welcomed as well.
Spirit: make them Special Summonable. They already took this step with the 2 Pendulum Spirits.
Toons: Adapt the "cannot attack the turn this card is Summoned" condition to allow them to attack, but not directly.
How do you feel about giving Geminis more than 1 additional effect?
Do you feel that the use of the multitude of Normal Support might break them? Also, based on the changes in gameplay since the introductions of Geminis, do you think that some of the existing Support has become ineffective while lacking any alternatives in the real/current game?
Do you think Equipping from the hand should be an internal mechanic, or a boon provided from outside sources? exa. monsters on the field and/or S/T support?
Do you think there is any way to improve the presence of Spirits without removing their current mechanics? I do like the SS-able option. I feel like the forced return is a big enough draw back, and some aren't even that powerful.
nmplemeIt would help if we could get the DP users to come over here and contribute, as opposed to them talking on Discord about whatever. But that much aside, I haven't really done Gemini/Union design much, but I can at least give my perspective.
I must note that a lot of it is driven by the current game at present, and while I'll try to focus this to pre-ZEXAL, yeah.
1. One of the major issues with them from a current standpoint is their need to be Normal Summoned again to get their effects, and are otherwise Vanillas on the board or in the GY, but not elsewhere. While you don't have to Tribute any added monsters, yeah, it still takes up your Normal Summon.
You do have Blazewing and Supervise as some support help, but that is about it. (If we're not taking Chemicritters and stuff into consideration here)
2. An idea would be to not have the "1 Normal Summon per turn" thing apply when you are Gemini Summoning a monster. Maybe that would push Geminis as a whole to a higher level, but not gamebreaking.
3. We got Catalyst Field, but more cards that can speed up summoning would do them good here.
4. (see #2)
5. Only Geminis I've made are from the distant past (well, maybe 3-4 years ago) and mostly as some fan standalones in certain archetypes. I haven't playtested them.
1. Pre-ABC format, Unions didn't do anything when they left the field. In general, a lot of the older ones from Magician's Force are specific to a certain monster, which aren't necessarily good themselves [at least now anyway]. There are the pseudo-Unions which aren't this via subtype, but accomplish similar tasks.
Also, the fact being that you still have to summon the Union monster first before it can do anything of value. Frontline Base is somewhat useful, but yeah.
2. Give them more consistent ways to get parts out, less restrictive on what they can attach to for the most part and give some value when they go to the GY (floating). I'm not saying to copy ABCs (though they're proficient in what they do), but just do something to address their shortcomings.
3. Equipping them from the hand may be an idea, though you would have to put a hard "1 Union per turn" clause so we don't get people abusing it to spam for ED material.
4. (See last part of #3; implementing this without the limiter will result in spam.)
Currently have to say no on this one because I haven't deviated from current mechanics. Closest is probably figuring out how to recalibrate Links in a Master Rule 3 setting, but that's mostly as an AGM thing.
Though, the DPR members might be able to give some insight into how they're working out with their stuff on DP (though IIRC it's more geared towards the current climate).
@Sakura, have you made any Union archetypes? Do you think the 1 Union per turn clause should exist as an internal mechanic or on a separate card?
Also, I do use "treat it as being equipped by its own effect" in my texts to avoid ED spam currently.
With my Symbions, I've been experimenting with really conditional effects with costs based on the effects of currently banned cards. Do you think that adding stronger non-Union effs will make them worthwhile without adding the equip from hand mechanic/effect?