Jump to content

Welcome to Yugioh Card Maker Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

"Honest Opinions"


Necrobump!

Guest, the last post on this topic is over 30 days old and a new post will be considered as necrobumping!



  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
26 replies to this topic

#1
(Mizzet)

(Mizzet)

    Firemind

  • Ace Investigator
  • 7,263 posts
    Last Visit
  • Alias:(parenthesis)
  • Spouse:cinnamon
For the most part, the opinion threads that show up in misc are quite constructive to our community. But that is not always the case.

In multiple instances, members have used the guise of "honesty" to make public, personal attacks on people. Those people are forced into a position where they are effectively publicly humiliated, and they can't really even speak up to defend themselves because "they asked for it".

I am guilty of this. I've used opinion threads to say some truly spiteful things to a few different members. This is a mistake I'm fully willing to acknowledge, and if a rule is made of this, I'd quite like for punishment to be grandfather'd in against me for it, according to staff discretion, of course.

And yes. This is absolutely a response to Dad's thread. I don't care if he's being "honest", he said some truly unacceptable things to multiple members. This, and things like it, are not okay.

#2
BANZAI!!!!

BANZAI!!!!

    BOOOM!

  • Elite Members
  • 1,631 posts
    Last Visit Oct 14 2018 06:24 PM
  • Discord:Zai#7925
  • Alias:Zai
  • Spouse:Kate
While I think this is a decent Idea on paper, its a very strange double standard that we allow people to say pretty offensive stuff in a more humorous manner, but legitimate (or not so legitimate) personal gripes are punushed. We usually warn people for flaming one another back and forth, as opposed to simply saying something mean to another user.

Really I think this is less of an isolated problem and more of a sympotm of how we define flaming/harrassment/inappropriate behavior on YCM, and who and how we let get away with it.

I’m hesitant to say I’m for or against one way or the other though, because being too harsh and not letting people vent creates an environment where people talk about one another behind closed doors and plot against them, which absolutely is a thing that happens here and is for my money a worse problem.

My two cents before I walk out there door
Posted Image

#3
(Mizzet)

(Mizzet)

    Firemind

  • Topic Starter
  • Ace Investigator
  • 7,263 posts
    Last Visit
  • Alias:(parenthesis)
  • Spouse:cinnamon
It really is not a double standard. Intent is important. In humourous situations, they say things to make fun. Can you honestly say that Dad said these things for fun? Because no, he didn't. And they weren't "personal gripes" either. He wasn't criticising so that one may improve. He was taking out his own personal rage on members, and saying things to be hurtful.

He, and other members in the past (myself included) were flaming, plain and simple.

The double standard is for it to be allowed just because they slapped a sticker on it saying "honest"

#4
mido9

mido9

    Preeeeeeeeeeetty good member

  • Endless Nine

  • 2,989 posts
    Last Visit Today, 05:09 PM
  • Spouse:ur mom

Nah, I agree on that they should deal with it

 

If you suck, get better, be a better or funnier member or something, you asked for your honest opinion, if you don't and get attacked anyway it doesn't even matter, like I can say you're a piece of garbage based on what you posted badly in one section even if you post in another section extremely well a lot or something but everyone who knows you will know you're good and everyone who doesn't won't take some random opinioneer's opinion on it as fact.

 

Also, on that note, I think it's a really good, fast way to get people to open up to what they hate about each other and fix it quickly




 

 

ZLiMtln.gif

 


#5
Hachimitcher-Lemon

Hachimitcher-Lemon

    His Mitcher's Ship

  • Back Alley Alliance
  • 2,237 posts
    Last Visit Oct 14 2018 02:53 AM
  • Alias:Mitcher

In multiple instances, members have used the guise of "honesty" to make public, personal attacks on people. Those people are forced into a position where they are effectively publicly humiliated, and they can't really even speak up to defend themselves because "they asked for

I don't see why this is a problem, personally.


BOYS, BE AMBITIOUS!



Posted Image


#6
Sunshine Jesse

Sunshine Jesse

    A miracle certainly will not occur.

  • Kiseki no Majo

  • 7,520 posts
    Last Visit 18 minutes ago
  • Discord:Bernkastel#7240
  • Spouse:Lambdadelta

For the most part, the opinion threads that show up in misc are quite constructive to our community. But that is not always the case.

In multiple instances, members have used the guise of "honesty" to make public, personal attacks on people. Those people are forced into a position where they are effectively publicly humiliated, and they can't really even speak up to defend themselves because "they asked for it".

I am guilty of this. I've used opinion threads to say some truly spiteful things to a few different members. This is a mistake I'm fully willing to acknowledge, and if a rule is made of this, I'd quite like for punishment to be grandfather'd in against me for it, according to staff discretion, of course.

And yes. This is absolutely a response to Dad's thread. I don't care if he's being "honest", he said some truly unacceptable things to multiple members. This, and things like it, are not okay.

what the hell

 

No????

 

There's a difference between using "asking for it" as rhetoric for victim blaming and literally asking for it.

 

Sometimes the only way people improve is if venom is spewed at them, especially in a public space. If they feel ostracized and don't use that as incentive to improve, then they deserve to feel ostracized.

 

Safe spaces have their merits, sure, but opinion threads sure as fuck shouldn't be considered one.



#7
(Mizzet)

(Mizzet)

    Firemind

  • Topic Starter
  • Ace Investigator
  • 7,263 posts
    Last Visit
  • Alias:(parenthesis)
  • Spouse:cinnamon

Also, on that note, I think it's a really good, fast way to get people to open up to what they hate about each other and fix it quickly

Fix it?
Let's see.

I got a few more minutes so let me get this out there.
I don't fucking trust you. I like you Black, but there is no word across any language that you could say and it would make me believe anything that comes outta your mouth. I did trust you a long fucking time ago.
But all of the shit I was warned about from multiple people, it's all come true. Every last fucking word of it. And I'm not talking about from people inside the mod forum or who used to be a part of it. I'm talking about shit I've heard from niggas who have never set foot inside that forum.
It enrages me to think after everything I've learned there were still more fucking secrets you were keeping. More people you were manipulating. More lies. I don't and I won't trust you ever again.

Can you honestly say you think this post is working toward fixing anything? It was an attack over things that he had previously never expressed toward black, instead waiting to say it all right here, in front of everyone, attacking the character of someone who walked in as a friend.

If Dad had any interest in fixing these problems, he would have come to black about them. But he doesn't want to fix it. He literally says that there is nothing black could say that he'd believe. That isn't honest, it's spiteful. It isn't helping anything.

"Venting" is one thing, but this is so far beyond. This isn't healthy. Nobody, member or mod, should have the right to use YCM as their emotional punching bag.

I'm stressed too. I've got my own fucking issues. But I don't use the insecurities of my friends and acquaintances to drag them to my own miserable level.

#8
Dad

Dad

    I was just hoping you know.

  • Juice

  • 14,708 posts
    Last Visit 49 minutes ago
  • Discord:Pops#5515
  • Alias:Dad
  • Spouse:Hip-hop

Fix it?
Let's see. Can you honestly say you think this post is working toward fixing anything? It was an attack over things that he had previously never expressed toward black, instead waiting to say it all right here, in front of everyone, attacking the character of someone who walked in as a friend.

If Dad had any interest in fixing these problems, he would have come to black about them. But he doesn't want to fix it. He literally says that there is nothing black could say that he'd believe. That isn't honest, it's spiteful. It isn't helping anything.

"Venting" is one thing, but this is so far beyond. This isn't healthy. Nobody, member or mod, should have the right to use YCM as their emotional punching bag.

I'm stressed too. I've got my own fucking issues. But I don't use the insecurities of my friends and acquaintances to drag them to my own miserable level.

 

What do I have to be insecure about?  He wanted to know, I told him.  So clarify it for me.


Drowning in your silence.


#9
Sunshine Jesse

Sunshine Jesse

    A miracle certainly will not occur.

  • Kiseki no Majo

  • 7,520 posts
    Last Visit 18 minutes ago
  • Discord:Bernkastel#7240
  • Spouse:Lambdadelta

Fix it?
Let's see. Can you honestly say you think this post is working toward fixing anything? It was an attack over things that he had previously never expressed toward black, instead waiting to say it all right here, in front of everyone, attacking the character of someone who walked in as a friend.

If Dad had any interest in fixing these problems, he would have come to black about them. But he doesn't want to fix it. He literally says that there is nothing black could say that he'd believe. That isn't honest, it's spiteful. It isn't helping anything.

"Venting" is one thing, but this is so far beyond. This isn't healthy. Nobody, member or mod, should have the right to use YCM as their emotional punching bag.

I'm stressed too. I've got my own fucking issues. But I don't use the insecurities of my friends and acquaintances to drag them to my own miserable level.

Yeah, sure, you're not a dickhead, round of applause for you. Three cheers for (). You're a decent person and I appreciate that.

 

Doesn't mean you inherently have a need (or even right) to hold others to the same standard you hold yourself. These threads don't need to fix anything. They don't need to help anything. They're just a convenient vehicle for actual honesty- something we need.

 

In a forum where discussion is (reasonably) strictly moderated, the idea that these threads should also be strictly moderated- when the entire point is to not be held to the same standards as elsewhere- is actually retarded.



#10
mido9

mido9

    Preeeeeeeeeeetty good member

  • Endless Nine

  • 2,989 posts
    Last Visit Today, 05:09 PM
  • Spouse:ur mom

Fix it?
Let's see. Can you honestly say you think this post is working toward fixing anything? It was an attack over things that he had previously never expressed toward black, instead waiting to say it all right here, in front of everyone, attacking the character of someone who walked in as a friend.

If Dad had any interest in fixing these problems, he would have come to black about them. But he doesn't want to fix it. He literally says that there is nothing black could say that he'd believe. That isn't honest, it's spiteful. It isn't helping anything.

"Venting" is one thing, but this is so far beyond. This isn't healthy. Nobody, member or mod, should have the right to use YCM as their emotional punching bag.

I'm stressed too. I've got my own f***ing issues. But I don't use the insecurities of my friends and acquaintances to drag them to my own miserable level.

 

Nobody knows who's in the right out of them or who's in the wrong or who has the skeleton in the closet, so nobody can reasonably or honestly take any real opinion on either black or dad from this, at all, in any way. These character attacks will just slide off.

 

Also, you don't need to have a reason to call someone a piece of garbage.




 

 

ZLiMtln.gif

 


#11
(Mizzet)

(Mizzet)

    Firemind

  • Topic Starter
  • Ace Investigator
  • 7,263 posts
    Last Visit
  • Alias:(parenthesis)
  • Spouse:cinnamon

Yeah, sure, you're not a dickhead, round of applause for you. Three cheers for (). You're a decent person and I appreciate that.
 
Doesn't mean you inherently have a need (or even right) to hold others to the same standard you hold yourself. These threads don't need to fix anything. They don't need to help anything. They're just a convenient vehicle for actual honesty- something we need.
 
In a forum where discussion is (reasonably) strictly moderated, the idea that these threads should also be strictly moderated- when the entire point is to not be held to the same standards as elsewhere- is actually retarded.

why does everyone want it to be okay to be a dickhead? Why is this a thing people fight for? Serious question. I'm not saying "people shouldn't criticise". That's insane. I'm saying that these venomous responses have no place on the forum.

What do I have to be insecure about?  He wanted to know, I told him.  So clarify it for me.

I don't fucking know what you are insecure about. I would ask, but you've blocked me on YCM and ignored my message on Skype.

If you aren't insecure, then that's all fine and dandy. I'm glad about it, because all things considered I'm really concerned about you lately. But these posts, particularly the attack toward black, do nobody any good. If you want people to improve, talk to them about it like an adult.

#12
Hachimitcher-Lemon

Hachimitcher-Lemon

    His Mitcher's Ship

  • Back Alley Alliance
  • 2,237 posts
    Last Visit Oct 14 2018 02:53 AM
  • Alias:Mitcher

"Venting" is one thing, but this is so far beyond. This isn't healthy. Nobody, member or mod, should have the right to use YCM as their emotional punching bag.

This part and

But I don't use the insecurities of my friends and acquaintances to drag them to my own miserable level.

this are absolutely unacceptable as arguments to make a new rule. At least as a member, i won't accept them. All I can see is some attempt at virtue signalling and a personal opinion attempting to pass itself as a standard.

 

Just because most people only use these threads as some kind of social platform to give each other shallow compliments instead of actual opinions doesn't mean it can't be used for its actual stated purpose. To quote Jesse, by default you are literally asking for it by posting in an opinions thread. If that's not what you want then don't post in them, or only post in opinion threads with a disclaimer saying 'btw i'll only give compliments so no one gets hurt ggwp'


BOYS, BE AMBITIOUS!



Posted Image


#13
Sunshine Jesse

Sunshine Jesse

    A miracle certainly will not occur.

  • Kiseki no Majo

  • 7,520 posts
    Last Visit 18 minutes ago
  • Discord:Bernkastel#7240
  • Spouse:Lambdadelta

why does everyone want it to be okay to be a dickhead? Why is this a thing people fight for? Serious question. I'm not saying "people shouldn't criticise". That's insane. I'm saying that these venomous responses have no place on the forum.

Because I am a dickhead and I like fighting for my rights, god damn it.

 

True honesty is something that's been lost in favor of letting people feel warm and fuzzy, and I'm absolutely not going to tolerate the idea of making it worse.



#14
Dad

Dad

    I was just hoping you know.

  • Juice

  • 14,708 posts
    Last Visit 49 minutes ago
  • Discord:Pops#5515
  • Alias:Dad
  • Spouse:Hip-hop

why does everyone want it to be okay to be a dickhead? Why is this a thing people fight for? Serious question. I'm not saying "people shouldn't criticise". That's insane. I'm saying that these venomous responses have no place on the forum.I don't fucking know what you are insecure about. I would ask, but you've blocked me on YCM and ignored my message on Skype.

If you aren't insecure, then that's all fine and dandy. I'm glad about it, because all things considered I'm really concerned about you lately. But these posts, particularly the attack toward black, do nobody any good. If you want people to improve, talk to them about it like an adult.

 

Tbh bruh, our relationship was toxic.  I didn't wanna reply for fear I might say something I regret.  Since I opened that thread in misc, I decided it was at least worth telling you why I refuse to deal with you at all.  There's your honesty from me.  Don't worry about me.  I appreciate it, but no thank you.


Drowning in your silence.


#15
Phantom Roxas

Phantom Roxas

    I am not afraid

  • The Chariot
  • 26,455 posts
    Last Visit Today, 10:04 AM

It really is not a double standard. Intent is important. In humourous situations, they say things to make fun. Can you honestly say that Dad said these things for fun? Because no, he didn't. And they weren't "personal gripes" either. He wasn't criticising so that one may improve. He was taking out his own personal rage on members, and saying things to be hurtful.

He, and other members in the past (myself included) were flaming, plain and simple.

The double standard is for it to be allowed just because they slapped a sticker on it saying "honest"

 
There have been times where people have said things precisely to be hurtful, and I've pushed back against that, but you've been nothing short of dismissive, claiming that those situations were "just jokes", and they only said things to make fun. So we've seen a double standard when the intent is plain, and you simply disregard how that has been hurtful. So I'm not sure how we could deal with hurtful intent when you jump to justifying someone's cruel behavior and saying they're just joking, rather than sympathize with how someone else might be hurt by what was said.
 

If Dad had any interest in fixing these problems, he would have come to black about them. But he doesn't want to fix it. He literally says that there is nothing black could say that he'd believe. That isn't honest, it's spiteful. It isn't helping anything.


I PM'd you the other day because I wanted to fix a problem, and you just blew me off. I would appreciate it if you would understand why I'm upset when someone is hurtful, but if you're not going to put in any effort, I'm not sure why you expect Dad to do the same. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to say "I'm sad about this issue and I want to fix it" and you just respond in a completely vile manner.
 

why does everyone want it to be okay to be a dickhead? Why is this a thing people fight for? Serious question. I'm not saying "people shouldn't criticise". That's insane. I'm saying that these venomous responses have no place on the forum.I don't fucking know what you are insecure about. I would ask, but you've blocked me on YCM and ignored my message on Skype.

If you aren't insecure, then that's all fine and dandy. I'm glad about it, because all things considered I'm really concerned about you lately. But these posts, particularly the attack toward black, do nobody any good. If you want people to improve, talk to them about it like an adult.

 
You justify your behavior by just saying that you're blunt. That you "Tell it like it is." The questions you're asking sound like something you could do well to ask yourself.


Posted Image


#16
Melkor

Melkor

  • Night's Watch

  • 13,996 posts
    Last Visit
  • Discord:#0196
  • Spouse:Fate
Don't ask if you can't take it. Dad wasn't exactly gentle with me and I'm not throwing a fit

Get over yourself

GQB7sDc.gifH1TI5wa.pngsp8QpRU.gif

bngoeJd.gif


#17
Phantom Roxas

Phantom Roxas

    I am not afraid

  • The Chariot
  • 26,455 posts
    Last Visit Today, 10:04 AM

Don't ask if you can't take it. Dad wasn't exactly gentle with me and I'm not throwing a fit

Get over yourself

 

Exactly. Yes, I can understand if there are times where people can go out of a line and be harsher than an opinion thread may be necessary for, but there were more than a few people going into that thread who were prepared for Dad to have a rather harsh opinion. Rather than "If this was a problem, Dad should have come to him," opinion threads seem like the perfect chance to air those grievances out. Those are attempts to fix issues, if necessary.

 

To put it another way, if you go into an opinion thread and ask "What are some issues you have with me?", it's perfectly acceptable for someone to explain what those issues are. It's... kind of sad to go "I'd like to know what issues you have with me, but please phrase it in a way that I'm not going to get upset." If you're asking someone else to sugarcoat it, how can you expect to confront issues you wish to improve on for yourself?


Posted Image


#18
Dae

Dae

    Legendary Member

  • Pretentious Prick

  • 16,725 posts
    Last Visit
  • Alias:Dae
  • Spouse:Catman

If you don't want to get personally attacked or even deal with it, don't comment in the thread. If you want to know, do it, but know that you're not going to get a "I love you" at each turn. There is a possibility the person you're getting an opinion from doesn't view you the way that you think they do. It is under your own volition, tho, and shouldn't be taken away from because people give "honest" opinions.


IiGVtCm.png1st_Place.png

41682d2aec304c206d5c0d9ca3a4bd12.png

 


#19
God Emperor Cow

God Emperor Cow

    Neow

  • Moderators
  • 11,587 posts
    Last Visit Today, 07:15 PM
  • Alias:Lord CowCow
  • Spouse:Shiki/Aix

For the record I'm 100% certain this thread was made not because of what was said about him but of others. idk which ones specifically got to him but I do want to say on one hand I appreciate the thought. You're a good person, parenthesis, sometimes too much so.

 

I don't necessarily think that these sort of threads shouldn't exist. However I do think that some opinions probably should be made private before public.

 

This post is about to become incredibly hypocritical.

 

Have a nice day.


8PBUpdp.gif


#20
(Mizzet)

(Mizzet)

    Firemind

  • Topic Starter
  • Ace Investigator
  • 7,263 posts
    Last Visit
  • Alias:(parenthesis)
  • Spouse:cinnamon
Okay. Let's get through this.

This part and
this are absolutely unacceptable as arguments to make a new rule. At least as a member, i won't accept them. All I can see is some attempt at virtue signalling and a personal opinion attempting to pass itself as a standard.

Just because most people only use these threads as some kind of social platform to give each other shallow compliments instead of actual opinions doesn't mean it can't be used for its actual stated purpose. To quote Jesse, by default you are literally asking for it by posting in an opinions thread. If that's not what you want then don't post in them, or only post in opinion threads with a disclaimer saying 'btw i'll only give compliments so no one gets hurt ggwp'

Several people here seem to have misinterpreted what my point is in this thread. I made the mistake of trying to type out an important post while in a waiting room, and as a result did not convey my ideas well enough. For that I apologise.

I'm not trying to outlaw criticism. I'm not trying to ban opinion threads. I'm not even against the expression of negative opinions. I agree with a lot of things said in this thread. Criticism is very important. It is how the faults in a person are shown, so that they may be improved upon. Honesty is important as well. I don't want people lying and saying that everything's fine. That wouldn't help anyone.

My issue is when these threads are used for outright, unproductive flaming. Just because somebody says "yeah, I'd like to know your opinion of me" doesn't mean they deserve this overwhelming level of vitriol. It is completely possible for someone to be critical, negative, or oppositional while remaining civil.

I'm not against opinion threads. I'm not against public discourse. The reason I made this thread is because I believe a line has been crossed. Many of the posts in Dad's thread do nobody any good. I don't remember who in this thread said it, but it was mentioned that sometimes venom is needed. That's bullshit. If you don't think people can learn about their faults without being intentionally hurt, then we disagree on a fundamental level that I will not waver on.

Because I am a dickhead and I like fighting for my rights, god damn it.

True honesty is something that's been lost in favor of letting people feel warm and fuzzy, and I'm absolutely not going to tolerate the idea of making it worse.

As I had said, I am not pushing for anything fake. People can be honest without being spiteful. I am absolutely sure that this isn't some trait unique to me. If you want to be intentionally hurtful with no visible reason beyond expressing your own anger, then this is a sentiment that I firmly believe does not belong here.

Tbh bruh, our relationship was toxic. I didn't wanna reply for fear I might say something I regret. Since I opened that thread in misc, I decided it was at least worth telling you why I refuse to deal with you at all. There's your honesty from me. Don't worry about me. I appreciate it, but no thank you.

Our relationship was toxic? Since when? I'm still unsure of exactly what flipped the switch, since you gave no response when I asked for clarification. What I want is for everyone here to, at the very least, feel welcome. If you don't want to be my friend, or whatever, that's totally fine. It's your own prerogative. If you don't want to repair whatever damage was done, that's fine too. But if you ever have any kind of problem with me, tell me. It's not difficult. Whatever happened that you registered as some form of personal attack was almost certainly nothing such. If you want to put this conflict in the past, I will gladly talk it out. If you don't, then don't.

But don't think this thread has much of anything to do with me. I made this well before you had ever responded to me. I believe that your issue with me is the result of a misunderstanding, and really am in no way offended by it, but some things you said to other members was cruel. Not just honest, not just blunt. What you said, and the way you said it, leads me to believe that your goal was to release your anger by making others feel worse about themselves. And I can tell you right now that it worked. I didn't make this thread for me. You can flame me as much as you want, and if it means you take some of the heat off of others, I'd welcome it.

You show signs of being unable to control your temper far more often than I would like to see from anybody in an authority position. While I'm certain you are a kind, genuine person at the end of the day, your open hostility actively makes this forum a worse place for many members, and I have serious doubts that you have the stability, maturity, and responsibility required to adequetely handle the power you have as a moderator.

I'm not trying to tear you down, make your life more difficult, or get in the way of anything. I want to be proven wrong. I want you to be a fantastic moderator, and I believe that if you take the right steps to get a better handle of yourself, that's absolutely within your reach. If you think my concerns about you are unfounded, prove me wrong. If you think I'm right, improve yourself, and prove me wrong again. Either way, I'd like nothing more of you than for you to be the constructive member of the mod team you were when you were brought on years ago.

There have been times where people have said things precisely to be hurtful, and I've pushed back against that, but you've been nothing short of dismissive, claiming that those situations were "just jokes", and they only said things to make fun. So we've seen a double standard when the intent is plain, and you simply disregard how that has been hurtful. So I'm not sure how we could deal with hurtful intent when you jump to justifying someone's cruel behavior and saying they're just joking, rather than sympathize with how someone else might be hurt by what was said.

Winter said that he wanted tanks to go into California. That is what you are referring to. Do you honestly believe that when he said that, he thought "yeah, that will hurt him"? No. He's winter. He said it because saying dumb shit like that is his way of reminding everyone just how passionate he is about his political beliefs. Do I believe he should have said it? No, it was just a ridiculous thing to say. It made very little sense in context, added nothing to the discussion, and was basically the equivalent of waving his two middle fingers while doing some bizarre helicopter maneuver with his dick.

But you latched onto it like no other. It was nothing beyond basic level bait, and you are still on about it so much later. That's the problem, Roxas. If what he said then really did hurt you, or cause you concern, I am genuinely sorry. I don't want anyone to have their day ruined by a few words, because hell, that's happened to me, and I know that it fucking sucks. But the fact that you hold against me the fact that I assumed such an overwhelmingly ridiculous thing to say to be anything beyond serious is on you. If you want an apology that I thought he was joking, you've got it. I'm sorry that I misinterpreted the situation and made you feel like I don't care about your feelings. That had never been my intent. Moving on now.

I PM'd you the other day because I wanted to fix a problem, and you just blew me off. I would appreciate it if you would understand why I'm upset when someone is hurtful, but if you're not going to put in any effort, I'm not sure why you expect Dad to do the same. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to say "I'm sad about this issue and I want to fix it" and you just respond in a completely vile manner.

I'm going to just post the PM right here, so anyone else reading has a bit of context on what you are talking about.

tfP1eRH.jpg

I responded the way I did because what I said was true. I didn't want to fight. I was having an awful day, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with you, and hardly have to do with YCM. I didn't say such in my response, because it was a personal matter that, once again, had nothing to do with you, so I wanted as few people to be aware of it as possible. Hopefully, that explanation is satisfactory to you.

I don't want to fight now. I don't like fighting. So what I'm going to try to do, is explain right now, as best I can, why I feel your response, and your conclusion that this is an expression of some personal grudge against you, is out of line.

In the thread, Cowcow had responded to your concern, and explained the situation very well. At one point in his explanation, he said something to the effect of "I guess I was a bit overly hostile". You seemed to have disregarded all the rest of his well-measured response and latched onto that one line, claiming it proved you completely correct. It wasn't a admission of guilt, especially to the degree you heralded it as. It was a concession in an attempt to reach some kind of resolution. And now you seem to be bringing it up here as if that was a case of him being intentionally spiteful toward another member? Are you kidding? Are you forgetting that CowCow's post in question boils down to "claiming all Republicans hate Obama for his race is objectively wrong, and such a mindset is disgusting"? Do you really think that it can be equated to the posts I bring up here, or is really related in any way? He was aggressive, and even I'd say he was a bit too aggressive, but he wasn't really trying to bring down the other poster in any way.

I didn't disagree with you twice because I'm out to get you, or want everything you say to be invalidated. I disagreed with you twice because I believed you were wrong.

You justify your behavior by just saying that you're blunt. That you "Tell it like it is." The questions you're asking sound like something you could do well to ask yourself.

Where the hell have I done this? People keep saying I use this defense, but I legitimately don't remember doing so on any significant level. If you can point me in the direction of an example, I would be appreciative of it and gladly rescind the denial.

I don't do things in an attempt to make people upset. Sometimes I make jokes that are too insensitive, and I come off as a rude or arrogant person, but even when that happens I do try my best to repair whatever damage I may have done. I am a person with a great deal of strong opinions, and I refuse to hold them back, especially when I feel another individual has been particularly wronged. I do my best to avoid personal insults, to make people understand that I am not opposed to them, as much as I am opposed to their actions, or an idea they put forward, but sometimes I slip up. And if I do, if I say something that seems particularly biting, or I accidentally cross a line while pushing forward my own convictions, I want you to tell me. Not just you, Roxas, but everyone. If anyone ever thinks I am trying to connive, or manipulate another toward my own cause regardless of their best interest, I want to know. That's not the kind of person I wish to be, and as passionate as I am about my aspirations, I care far more that I achieve them by doing things the right way.

Don't ask if you can't take it. Dad wasn't exactly gentle with me and I'm not throwing a fit
Get over yourself

As I had said, this thread is in no way instigated by what Dad had said to me, and in fact predated his response. I am not opposed to people being made aware of their faults, I think it is one of the really great strengths of these opinion threads. I made this thread because I believe multiple members, Dad and myself included, used them as an excuse to direct our own anger at others, rather than for anything productive to the forum or its community.

Exactly. Yes, I can understand if there are times where people can go out of a line and be harsher than an opinion thread may be necessary for, but there were more than a few people going into that thread who were prepared for Dad to have a rather harsh opinion. Rather than "If this was a problem, Dad should have come to him," opinion threads seem like the perfect chance to air those grievances out. Those are attempts to fix issues, if necessary.

To put it another way, if you go into an opinion thread and ask "What are some issues you have with me?", it's perfectly acceptable for someone to explain what those issues are. It's... kind of sad to go "I'd like to know what issues you have with me, but please phrase it in a way that I'm not going to get upset." If you're asking someone else to sugarcoat it, how can you expect to confront issues you wish to improve on for yourself?

If Dad says that he said those things so that the people in question can improve, then my issue changes from one of his intent to one of his execution, but I don't see much to indicate that is the case at all.

Highlighting a person's weaknesses, and explaining whatever issues one may have with them is one thing, but to say "I'll never trust you, and all the terrible things everyone ever said about you were completely correct" is another entirely. That's not even saying the issue, it's just laser-guided hatred.

If you don't want to get personally attacked or even deal with it, don't comment in the thread. If you want to know, do it, but know that you're not going to get a "I love you" at each turn. There is a possibility the person you're getting an opinion from doesn't view you the way that you think they do. It is under your own volition, tho, and shouldn't be taken away from because people give "honest" opinions.

As I've gone into already and more thoroughly, my issue is not with the expression of negative opinions. My problem is the sheer dose of toxicity with which it has been delivered multiple times in the past. Dissent and conflict absolutely have their place, even on this forum, but I in no way welcome hatred.

For the record I'm 100% certain this thread was made not because of what was said about him but of others. idk which ones specifically got to him but I do want to say on one hand I appreciate the thought. You're a good person, parenthesis, sometimes too much so.

I don't necessarily think that these sort of threads shouldn't exist. However I do think that some opinions probably should be made private before public.

This post is about to become incredibly hypocritical.

Have a nice day.

I've reached the point where I'm disagreeing even with the post that is present to defend me. First off, I'm nothing amazing. You know my faults just as well as anyone. Second off, one cannot be "too good", not that I am at any risk of being such anyway. Good is, by definition, a positive concept. If the things they do for the sake of what is "good" reach a point of becoming a negative, then it is no longer something that can be truthfully called good.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users