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Posted 25 February 2018 - 10:44 PM
Posted 25 February 2018 - 11:51 PM
Haven't read the thread's replies properly yet but,
I think this is a hard thing to manage. Some people really do like the harshest replies they can get (that are still constructive), and looking at Dad's thread, he got people like Cow reply to him, so the door being opened to tackle the answers is always a good thing. Also, I think the people he said those things to are actually thick enough to take it and even get back at it. One enters these sorts of threads prepared to take a blow IMO if an opinion were to come up negative.
At the same time, one has to keep in mind that opinion threads are a subjective statement from another person's perspective, and that one should never take it fully to heart. It is a mutually agreed exchange of honesty that always has some degree of constructive criticism value to it, and as such, one should never ask in them by putting our own heart as the cushion for the punch. Not sure if this sounds too weird.
I get the idea that you think the line of acceptance was crossed, but for the nature of these threads, that line is lifted and blurred out compared to everywhere else at the forums. I don't think everybody holds it to the same level here. I personally would not be as blunt as Dad's statements were, but by my personality, I don't know if I'd even be able to be if I wanted to. I have seen people before that do have the opinion that being too polite doesn't feel right, and I personally can kind of accept that. The biggest exponent of this side of the spectrum I've interacted with at YCM during my time is an old member named Chris... I actually hold people's level of harshness weighted against what I remember of that guy, and virtually have never met somebody I deem as harsh here xD
I just went on a tangent there....
Well, I guess I should read the rest of the comments to complete my opinion on this.... Though part of what'd help weight in this is how the targets themselves of any harshness end up taking it.
Btw, I saw this thread first and then went to Dad's thread and posted.... Have since read the reply although I began writing here before that... Even if I had gotten a "you suck" kind of post, I'd stick to this post of initial thoughts. Well.... depending on how much I screwed up coordinating my thoughts when I re-read this lol.
Posted 27 February 2018 - 10:26 AM
I mean the tanks comment was in reference to California's seccession from the US...you know like how the north responded when the south illegally left. Jeez. Holy lack of context
Lost my response to Giga, so I'll try to work on that again later, but I'll just get this one out of the way.
I didn't consider that context, so quite frankly, that lack of context is your own fault, and taking that comment, as well as looking at the overall pattern of your petty and irrational grudge against California, and your habit of advocating for the most extreme measures against California, you'll forgive me that I took your unrepentantly hostile comment as a personal threat.
I do appreciate that Giga apologized for dismissive my feelings about your comment. So I would appreciate if you apologized as well for your comment. Either way, this is all I'm saying to you here, Winter. I don't want to derail this thread much further.
Posted 27 February 2018 - 11:12 AM
We were discussing Calexit and California seizing public lands (46% of CA) in their secession Roxas. You missing context and not reading up the status isn't my fault. I do think Ca represents much of what is wrong with the country, but that's neither here nor there
It's fine that Giga thinks I went overboard, that's his right to opine, but there was a clear context that none of you are sharing
Posted 27 February 2018 - 12:06 PM
What winter is trying to get at is basically politics analogies suck
Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:24 PM
Lost this post last time I was working on this, and honestly, that was probably for the best. Going to try and be brief with my responses here, even though I'm quoting a lot.
Winter said that he wanted tanks to go into California. That is what you are referring to. Do you honestly believe that when he said that, he thought "yeah, that will hurt him"? No. He's winter. He said it because saying dumb shit like that is his way of reminding everyone just how passionate he is about his political beliefs. Do I believe he should have said it? No, it was just a ridiculous thing to say. It made very little sense in context, added nothing to the discussion, and was basically the equivalent of waving his two middle fingers while doing some bizarre helicopter maneuver with his dick.
He has no qualms about advocating for violent solutions to get what he wants, and he laughs at people when they're hurt. Given how that conversation had been going (Because I actually did read it, despite Winter's baseless false claim that I didn't), yes, I believe he said that to hurt me.
But you latched onto it like no other. It was nothing beyond basic level bait, and you are still on about it so much later. That's the problem, Roxas. If what he said then really did hurt you, or cause you concern, I am genuinely sorry. I don't want anyone to have their day ruined by a few words, because hell, that's happened to me, and I know that it fucking sucks. But the fact that you hold against me the fact that I assumed such an overwhelmingly ridiculous thing to say to be anything beyond serious is on you.
I hold it against you because you have frequently been condescending and treating me like I don't get to be upset by the hurtful things that people said to me. You because you have continued to dismiss my concerns about other people, and I would appreciate if you were more receptive than just defaulting to "Oh, this person must have misunderstood them!" Because I notice I'm not the only person in this thread you've used that line on.
If you want an apology that I thought he was joking, you've got it. I'm sorry that I misinterpreted the situation and made you feel like I don't care about your feelings. That had never been my intent. Moving on now.
I'm conflicted. I do want to accept your apology, but as I said, it wasn't isolated to that one instance. You often act as though don't care about my feelings. Even if that wasn't your intent at first, it seems like that became your default response later. I'm not sure if it's conscious, though. More like you say these things without thinking of how they contribute to the pattern.
I responded the way I did because what I said was true. I didn't want to fight. I was having an awful day, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with you, and hardly have to do with YCM. I didn't say such in my response, because it was a personal matter that, once again, had nothing to do with you, so I wanted as few people to be aware of it as possible. Hopefully, that explanation is satisfactory to you.
That explanation makes sense. I'm not going to have any caveats there, since that would bog down this conversation in more minutiae than already present.
I don't want to fight now. I don't like fighting. So what I'm going to try to do, is explain right now, as best I can, why I feel your response, and your conclusion that this is an expression of some personal grudge against you, is out of line.
In the thread, Cowcow had responded to your concern, and explained the situation very well. At one point in his explanation, he said something to the effect of "I guess I was a bit overly hostile". You seemed to have disregarded all the rest of his well-measured response and latched onto that one line, claiming it proved you completely correct. It wasn't a admission of guilt, especially to the degree you heralded it as. It was a concession in an attempt to reach some kind of resolution. And now you seem to be bringing it up here as if that was a case of him being intentionally spiteful toward another member? Are you kidding? Are you forgetting that CowCow's post in question boils down to "claiming all Republicans hate Obama for his race is objectively wrong, and such a mindset is disgusting"? Do you really think that it can be equated to the posts I bring up here, or is really related in any way? He was aggressive, and even I'd say he was a bit too aggressive, but he wasn't really trying to bring down the other poster in any way.
I didn't disagree with you twice because I'm out to get you, or want everything you say to be invalidated. I disagreed with you twice because I believed you were wrong.
Except it does feel like you're out to get me, and you expect me to just let it slide. I don't believe what CowCow said could be equated to the posts you cited, nor was that the point I was trying to make. I'm not making judgments on him, I'm saying that your criticism against Dad for not trying to fix anything is remarkably hypocritical due to what I saw as a lack of interest on your own part.
Where the hell have I done this? People keep saying I use this defense, but I legitimately don't remember doing so on any significant level. If you can point me in the direction of an example, I would be appreciative of it and gladly rescind the denial.
It's come up in a few status updates, but I'll admit that I might be confusing things here, and it's probably something other people have said you rather than anything you yourself have said. I'm afraid I can't provide specific examples at the moment, but for this point, I would suggest that if people keep saying you use that defense, that might be something you'll want to actually improve yourself on.
I don't do things in an attempt to make people upset. Sometimes I make jokes that are too insensitive, and I come off as a rude or arrogant person, but even when that happens I do try my best to repair whatever damage I may have done. I am a person with a great deal of strong opinions, and I refuse to hold them back, especially when I feel another individual has been particularly wronged. I do my best to avoid personal insults, to make people understand that I am not opposed to them, as much as I am opposed to their actions, or an idea they put forward, but sometimes I slip up. And if I do, if I say something that seems particularly biting, or I accidentally cross a line while pushing forward my own convictions, I want you to tell me. Not just you, Roxas, but everyone. If anyone ever thinks I am trying to connive, or manipulate another toward my own cause regardless of their best interest, I want to know. That's not the kind of person I wish to be, and as passionate as I am about my aspirations, I care far more that I achieve them by doing things the right way.
I'm holding you to this. Where we stand right now, I'm afraid to raise my concerns with you because I'd sooner expect you to just lay the majority of the blame at my feet than to up to your own aggression, cruelty, and actively rejecting sympathy in favor of punching down on someone. This post is an exception because I do see you genuinely trying to apologize for things, but it's just that, an exception.
If Dad says that he said those things so that the people in question can improve, then my issue changes from one of his intent to one of his execution, but I don't see much to indicate that is the case at all.
Highlighting a person's weaknesses, and explaining whatever issues one may have with them is one thing, but to say "I'll never trust you, and all the terrible things everyone ever said about you were completely correct" is another entirely. That's not even saying the issue, it's just laser-guided hatred.
That example was definitely out of line on Dad's part. Can't really argue with that.
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