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Super Smash Bros Ultimate


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#21
Flame Dragon

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Not any others aside from Smash and ARMS that I can think of. And ARMS has done quite well for a new IP, it's sold over 1.6 million copies by this point, a character wouldn't be undeserving. Though realistically speaking it'd be Spring Man and/or Ribbon Girl, Max Brass is just me being very hopeful.

 
Yea, those would be the 2 with the best odds. No harm in dreaming though.
 

#Crash4Smash
 
Let's get this trending, people.


Nah man #ChainChomp4Smash
 

Considerations should be made for preexisting series and characters with the same fervor as new characters. 
 
Mario, Link and Pikachu should be changed to reflect Odyssey, Breath of the Wild and Z-moves (volt tackle replacing skull bash to enable a Catastropika final smash). Should Greninja return, its final smash would become Ash Greninja. A reformed—hopefully competitive—Kirby with a Star Allies moveset.
 
With the new Greninja around Smash 4, and the precedent of introducing yet-unreleased characters (Corrin), a Pokemon Switch release in Smash's vicinity should prompt vigilance for the next generation's darling.


I think Greninja is super likely to come back, helped with having won the popularity poll they rain a couple years ago. Jigs being in the top 50 means she has a good shot at making it back too.

I don't think we'll see any Gen 8 Pokemon. Fates came out in 2015 so the game was being played when Corrin was announced. To my knowledge only Roy has gotten in as a promotion for an upcoming release. Decidueye seems to be the most likely for the new rep. Other options are Incineroar, Lycanroc, Bewear, Mimikyu, Kommo-o, and Buzzwole. As said Decidueye gets my support for balancing the Fire and Water starter and both are super likely to make it back in.

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#22
Shradow

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Also I noticed that HAL Laboratory is listed in the copyright blurb, so they're back developing for the series again after their last involvement was just some cooperation with Brawl.


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#23
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Also I noticed that HAL Laboratory is listed in the copyright blurb, so they're back developing for the series again after their last involvement was just some cooperation with Brawl.


Where did you see this?

Anyway, I'm board so lets guess at roster size.

First the previous games break down.
Smash 64: 12
Melee: 26, 14 new comers, +14
Brawl: 39, 18 new comers, +13
Smash 4: 58, 21 new comers, +19 (51, 17, +12 discounting DLC)

Of the 58 characters; Toon Link, Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Lucina, Pac Man, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, and Cloud are the most likely cuts. Of the other 3rd party characters Bayo has good odds of coming back while Mega Man and Sonic honestly feel at home in the game. All the other characters honestly feel like they have a shot at remaining in the game.

While large rosters are really cool, they do have upper limits. Over all I'm going to guess that we have 64 characters with those 9 characters cut and 15 new characters taking their place.

Edit: Forgot the Switch doesn't have Miis. That is -3 characters. And nothing of value was lost.

If we start making deeper cuts. Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Game&Watch, Corrin, Robin, Palutaina would be the next ones to go.

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#24
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Just check the website or the teaser video.

 

© 2018 Nintendo
Original Game: © Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc.

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#25
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Just check the website or the teaser video.
 
© 2018 Nintendo
Original Game: © Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc.


I watched back the trailer and didn't see it. Saw it on the site though. Interesting.

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#26
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It's on the lower right when 2018 is on the screen in the video. Anyways, you guys also see the tweet Sakurai put out? https://twitter.com/...885028245307392

 

Translates to, "Right now we're just at the stage where we revealed this game, but I've been working on this game in silence day after day. Please wait until we can release more information, or until release day!"

 

So Sakurai is still working on the series.


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#27
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I mainly want Ike and Cloud. Depending on how good they are, Inkling or Bowser would be my mains.

 

For dream characters, with Inkling already in, I advocate for Midna: have always thought she could have a cool moveset, using her hair for ranged grabs. But as years go through, and no Twilight Princess remake for Switch, it becomes less and less likely.


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#28
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My personal thoughts:

Given the three big shadows in the trailer, either Charizard returns or Ganon gets a Hyrule Warriors/generally bulkier redesign.

BotW Link opens the door to the possibility of the default Zelda skin being BotW Zelda, which is neat.

Honestly, the only cuts I would make to the roster that make any sense is Duck Hunt (thank you, phone, for making me need to fix that from "Fuck Hut"), and collapsing Lucina into Marth as a skin, because I honestly like Sm4sh's roster a lot. Some repetition so that you can jump between characters without issue, but enough sheer variety that the game feels balanced, at least in terms of roster. Given the unofficial "six per emblem" rule, here's the roster as I would like it to be, additions bolded to stand out:

Mario:
Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Bowser, Bowser Jr.
Yoshi's Island:
Yoshi
WarioWare:
Wario, Waluigi (please, he's the only Italian we don't have in Smash).
Donkey Kong:
DK, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool(not entirely sure here, but at least a gun character would replace Mii Gunner in the short list of fun projectile-based characters in the game)
Fire Emblem:
Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Corrin, LITERALLY ANY AXE WIELDER OR MAGE
Bayonetta:
Bayonetta
Mega Man:
Mega Man
MOTHER:
Ness, Lucas
Punch-Out!:
Little Mac
Pac-Man:
Pac-Man
Okami:
Amaterasu
(We're getting a rerelease, put Best Goddess in Sma5h), Waka (unlikely, but he'd put a unique spin on sword characters beyond "give them a good ground game and a counter, there's a character for you", as a dual-wielding dude who can fly)
Kid Icarus:
Pit, Dark Pit (I actually prefer Dark Pit's more aggressive game with the Electroshock Arm and more powerful, less directionally influenceable arrows), Palutena
Pokémon:
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Greninja, Lucario (while I personally don't like Lucario all that much, he's too popular and too well established to cut now, despite my desire for Decidueye or Sceptile to fill his spot)
Final Fantasy:
Cloud, Terra (FF6 is better, fight me. I also really felt Paine, at least as a Cloud skin, because I actually enjoyed X-2, but that game's not as popular as the 4-6-7-8 juggernauts)
F-Zero:
Captain Falcon, ANYONE. GIVE FANS HOPE FOR F-ZERO.
The Legend of Zelda:
Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik maybe a sixth representative? Not sure on any one character marketable enough to pull it off, despite my desire for a Majora's Mask inspired Young Link, or maybe one of the Guardians in BotW
Kirby:
Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight
Game & Watch:
Mr. Game & Watch
Metroid:
Samus, Zero Suit Samus, probably a new representative to promote Prime 4
Xenoblade:
Shulk, someone from Xenoblade 2? Haven't played it yet
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG:
Sonic, Knuckles (his sheer popularity might get him in if nothing else, and a lightweight rushdown character with an air game would be interesting to see if nothing else)
Animal Crossing:
Villager
Star Fox:
Fox, Falco
R.O.B.:
R.O.B
Splatoon:
Inkling/Octoling (I see the possibility of boy and girl options for both being costume options)
Street Fighter (the one most likely to be cut):
Ryu (while I'm honestly a fan of the idea of implementing other popular SF characters, being partial to seeing Bison or Juri for some villainous fun, I don't see it happening)
Metal Gear Solid (super wishful thinking):
Solid Snake (please?)

I honestly don't want much in the way of major changes. The roster was already very polished, if a bit oversaturated with pointy metal.
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#29
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You seem a bit biased there. You want to merge Lucina into Marth but not Dark Pit into Pit? xD

Octoling could very well an alternate skin for Inkling, yeah.

IDK, I liked Duck Hunt and would like for it to stay, but actually competitively viable this time.

A 6th Zelda representative is possible yeah, specially with Hyrule Warriors around. Wouldn't be surprised if they picked Lana.

As an additional F-Zero representative I nominate Black Shadow. Another Ganondorf-ish character, or rather, Melee Ganondorf, who already shared some moves with Falcon.


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#30
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The thing is that Lucina takes away from Marth's playstyle (tipper) without actively adding anything. She's almost objectively worse, aside from being very popular waifu bait. Dark Pit plays slightly differently from Pit, but just differently enough to count; he requires a much more aggressive, damage-oriented playstyle, rather than OG Pit's preference for keeping the opponent offstage to whack with the Upperdash Arm and control more effectively with easier to control arrows. The YGO equivalent is playing going-first and going-second variants of the same Deck: one is more aggressive and focused on aggressive single-minded rush, the other is more control-oriented to keep the opponent at a disadvantage.

Also just realized I forgot Wii Fit Trainer existed at all lol
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#31
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Wait, so it’s not Smash 4 Deluxe?
Well damn, that changes everything, especially if it’s coming this year.

I’m gonna lay out a few things before I elaborate:

Game Mechanics: I don’t see Nintendo wanting to change anything as far as mechanics go. I would like to see a general nerf to shields in this new title but I suppose smash from now on will be inherently all about spacing, reads, and kill setups rather than combos and gimps at the ledge. Trumping will probably come back and be just as powerful.

Characters: Inklings have been confirmed, and Ice Climbers are very likely because no more software limitations and basically everyone who played smash before 4 wants them back. Shovel Knight is a reasonable candidate for a fighter because he has a lot of ways to create a moveset. Ridley is still too big though. Also I may consider not getting this game if they decide to put time and effort into any more new fire emblem characters.

Stages: Who cares lol. If we’re lucky there will be one new competitive stage. Otherwise it’s just BF, FD, and animal crossing

Customs: Probably coming back. If they’re not absurdly broken like DK’s then they could end up in tournaments.

Also dammit hina I wanted to make this thread

My personal thoughts:
Given the three big shadows in the trailer, either Charizard returns or Ganon gets a Hyrule Warriors/generally bulkier redesign.
BotW Link opens the door to the possibility of the default Zelda skin being BotW Zelda, which is neat.
Honestly, the only cuts I would make to the roster that make any sense is Duck Hunt (thank you, phone, for making me need to fix that from "Fuck Hut"), and collapsing Lucina into Marth as a skin, because I honestly like Sm4sh's roster a lot. Some repetition so that you can jump between characters without issue, but enough sheer variety that the game feels balanced, at least in terms of roster. Given the unofficial "six per emblem" rule, here's the roster as I would like it to be, additions bolded to stand out:
Mario:
Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Bowser, Bowser Jr.
Yoshi's Island:
Yoshi
WarioWare:
Wario, Waluigi (please, he's the only Italian we don't have in Smash).
Donkey Kong:
DK, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool(not entirely sure here, but at least a gun character would replace Mii Gunner in the short list of fun projectile-based characters in the game)
Fire Emblem:
Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Corrin, LITERALLY ANY AXE WIELDER OR MAGE
Bayonetta:
Bayonetta
Mega Man:
Mega Man
MOTHER:
Ness, Lucas
Punch-Out!:
Little Mac
Pac-Man:
Pac-Man Okami:
Amaterasu
(We're getting a rerelease, put Best Goddess in Sma5h), Waka (unlikely, but he'd put a unique spin on sword characters beyond "give them a good ground game and a counter, there's a character for you", as a dual-wielding dude who can fly)
Kid Icarus:
Pit, Dark Pit (I actually prefer Dark Pit's more aggressive game with the Electroshock Arm and more powerful, less directionally influenceable arrows), Palutena
Pokémon:
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Greninja, Lucario (while I personally don't like Lucario all that much, he's too popular and too well established to cut now, despite my desire for Decidueye or Sceptile to fill his spot)
Final Fantasy:
Cloud, Terra (FF6 is better, fight me. I also really felt Paine, at least as a Cloud skin, because I actually enjoyed X-2, but that game's not as popular as the 4-6-7-8 juggernauts)
F-Zero:
Captain Falcon, ANYONE. GIVE FANS HOPE FOR F-ZERO.
The Legend of Zelda:
Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik maybe a sixth representative? Not sure on any one character marketable enough to pull it off, despite my desire for a Majora's Mask inspired Young Link, or maybe one of the Guardians in BotW
Kirby:
Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight
Game & Watch:
Mr. Game & Watch
Metroid:
Samus, Zero Suit Samus, probably a new representative to promote Prime 4
Xenoblade:
Shulk, someone from Xenoblade 2? Haven't played it yet
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG:
Sonic, Knuckles (his sheer popularity might get him in if nothing else, and a lightweight rushdown character with an air game would be interesting to see if nothing else)
Animal Crossing:
Villager
Star Fox:
Fox, Falco
R.O.B.:
R.O.B
Splatoon:
Inkling/Octoling (I see the possibility of boy and girl options for both being costume options)
Street Fighter (the one most likely to be cut):
Ryu (while I'm honestly a fan of the idea of implementing other popular SF characters, being partial to seeing Bison or Juri for some villainous fun, I don't see it happening)
Metal Gear Solid (super wishful thinking):
Solid Snake (please?)
I honestly don't want much in the way of major changes. The roster was already very polished, if a bit oversaturated with pointy metal.

If they cut Duck Hunt but add a fire emblem character I will absolutely not buy this game

Now that I think about it though, decidueye would be an awesome pick. It’s the one design that looks good throughout the evolutionary line, and maybe Nintendo could get sum momentum off of it from Pokken

I’m just realizing now how much I want Bandana Dee and Sandbag as playable characters in this game

But yeah, I’m really hoping they don’t cut any of the roster. With Pokémon Trainer and Snake it had to happen, but again, this is Nintendo’s chance to really make this a good one

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#32
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The thing is that Lucina takes away from Marth's playstyle (tipper) without actively adding anything. She's almost objectively worse, aside from being very popular waifu bait.


She's actually preferred by some at high levels due to her consistency. ZeRo (literally the best pro Smash 4 player in the world before his retirement) played her over Marth, for example.


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#33
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She's actually preferred by some at high levels due to her consistency. ZeRo (literally the best pro Smash 4 player in the world before his retirement) played her over Marth, for example.

 

Good player ≠ good character

 

Marth is good for tipper, but you also have to bear in mind that Marth's attacks that are closer to the hilt do less knockback and therefore can be used for combos that Lucina can't pull off.

 

But I guess Lucina is fine for the earlier kills.


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#34
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Also just realised I forgot Wii Fit Trainer existed at all lol

I can guarantee that you're not alone here.


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#35
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I just hope Ike stays in. He's a unique FE sword wielder and FEH has shown us he's more or less still the most popular FE character.


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#36
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Also just realized I forgot Wii Fit Trainer existed at all lol


Pretty sure you left of the 3 Miis as well.

But yea, Smash's roster can't really grow anymore. As I said in my post, fighting games have upper limits and 4 is already pushing it hard. Part of the reason it got away with it too was because of 7 characters being DLC. Things need to be cut.

And, I still strongly believe we need to temper excitement for 3rd party characters. Smash is first and foremost a celebration of Nintendo history so any 3rd party additions need to be very carefully done. I also believe the odds of 3rd parties getting 2 reps from the same franchise to be almost 0%.

As for some notes on new characters.

Zelda can easily see 1 of the 4 Champions from BotW make it in.
Xenoblade is likely to get the lead from 2.
K. Rool needs to happen. Though I'll take Dixie.
ARMs character as already said.
Pokemon should get something from Gen 7. My vote is for the owl.

F-Zero isn't getting a new character. While it certainly deserved it in the past, I don't think a franchise that hasn't seen a new game in over a decade really needs more than the lead.


Also also, we don't know if this is a new game or not. We have things suggesting it could be either. Personally I think the leans towards new though.

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#37
Draconus297

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I acknowledged the Miis when I brought up K. Rool: the Switch doesn't have Miis, so bringing them back in Sma5h when I'm just about the only person who ever played then frequently would just be wasting space on the roster, despite my avid like of the concept.

Also, I didn't add a Fire Emblem character, Isaac, I made a replacement. Big difference. Also Duck Hunt and all his mains can go die kthnxbai

I hadn't thought of an ARMs rep, but it makes perfect sense. Knowing Nintendo, they probably won't restrict themselves to just 1: Fire Emblem got a duo out of the gate, Kid Icarus went from 1 to 3 reps between games. I'm thinking either two or three, myself, but I don't know ARMs much beyond the ones popular on the Internet; I wouldn't be able to tell you which ones.
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#38
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Also Duck Hunt and all his mains can go die kthnxbai

 

NIWwR9B.jpg

 

Salt about a character ≠ that character deserves to be removed from the game

 

By that logic there would be no wave 2 or 3 DLC

 

Kid Icarus only has 3 representatives because of Uprising (which is an amazing game btw), but I do kind of wish Viridi was in smash. I can tell that the roster is limited though.

 

Honestly there's not really a valid reason to remove Duck Hunt, since the hardware isn't limited at all. Unless it is, in which case fuck. I like Duck Hunt because it's one of the more creative characters and a really valuable addition that made Smash 4 different from the other installments. Besides, it's about the "all-stars," which not many minor Fire Emblem characters fit the bill for.


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#39
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It was (mostly) a joke. I'm not salty about the little dog-and-duck pair, I just find their playstyle anti-fun, which feels out of place given Sakurai's design philosophy. No fun to play as, no fun to play against (and not even in the DLC way where newer/less experienced players get bodied and have to accept it, making it an EZ win button around casual players and an uphill challenge worth taking for more competitive players), just an underwhelming addition to the roster that I don't believe anyone asked for. Might just be a personal thing, not entirely sure.

As for Fire Emblem, the only reason it exists in the West is Smash, so it makes sense that the tactical series would get heavy representation as a kind of thank you note. I'm just trying to cut out the redundant "language", as it were.
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#40
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Also apparently HAL Laboratory being in the copyright bit has been a thing for every game, which I find odd considering they had no involvement with 4. So that part doesn't necessarily mean anything, we still don't know who's developed this one, though if Sakurai is involved I'm assuming Sora Ltd. is as well.


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